What made you leave the church?

[Blackleaf]

Most Christians never read the whole Bible ;-(  At one time they weren't allowed to read the Bible.  At earlier times they weren't even able to read.  Our ancestors went thru tremendous struggle to be able to read and to read the Bible ... and it is a shame if literate Christians (most of them are literate now) don't avail themselves of it.  Dinky Bible study classes in Church are child like in comparison ... but that is partly because the Church wasn't to control what you are paying attention to in the Bible (watch out for gay people) or are wanting to control how you read it, what conclusions you draw.  And in your case, we can see why.  What makes you different isn't just that you read the whole Bible, but that you have free thinking.  That is what is threatening to society, even to Madison Ave.

Not only are most Christians literate now, and have a plethora of English translations/transliterations available for purchase, but there are countless free resources ONLINE for them to use. The only excuse Christians have for being ignorant of the Bible is their laziness. After all, why should they find it important to actually study the book they build their entire lives and ethical code around?

[Cavebear]

Most Christians never read the whole Bible ;-(  At one time they weren't allowed to read the Bible.  At earlier times they weren't even able to read.  Our ancestors went thru tremendous struggle to be able to read and to read the Bible ... and it is a shame if literate Christians (most of them are literate now) don't avail themselves of it.  Dinky Bible study classes in Church are child like in comparison ... but that is partly because the Church wants to control what you are paying attention to in the Bible (watch out for gay people) or are wanting to control how you read it, what conclusions you draw.  And in your case, we can see why.  What makes you different isn't just that you read the whole Bible, but that you have free thinking.  That is what is threatening to society, even to Madison Ave.

I'm surprised you even admit to that, since it demonstrates that not only is there no evidence for a deity in the bible (and by association, other religious texts) but that even believers had no basis for their beliefs other than the local loudest salesman of the text.

[Jason78]

I felt like I was going to die.

You are going to die.   Try not to worry about it.

[Cavebear]

You are going to die.   Try not to worry about it.

Yeah, it's not IF it's when.  I've left instructions for my ashes to be scattered on my garden.  If anyone wants my gold fillings, they better be at the event.  LOL!

[SGOS]

It's one thing to look happy, quite another thing to actually be happy.

I assume that at least one woman wasn't happy.  To bring pimping charges against the leader would have required at least one woman to come forward.

I had a friend who worked for the Forest Service back during those years, who had a vague interest in Christianity, but he didn't talk about it all that much.  One day, his brother showed up with a Volkswagen Van and a mixed group of hippy types, both male and female.  It was part of a larger group of Jesus Freaks who had another commune some place in Oregon, and he quit his job and left with them.  He didn't officially quit, he just didn't show up for work on Monday.  He did the Jesus thing of leaving his world possessions behind, including his paycheck and his car.  He told me I could have his car, although I didn't take him up on it, as it would mean transferring of title, and you can't just give away a car without transferring title, even if it's for religious reasons.

Before he left, he explained that the group had devoted their lives to Jesus, and then free and uncommitted sex in in the group was part of the lifestyle.  He was pleased with the idea of lots of sex.  That was his expectation, probably played up by his brother, although from my experience, sex is seldom "free or uncommitted", at least most of the time.

I never heard from again, so I don't know how it all worked out.  A coworker of his did call me asking if I knew where he was so they could send him his final paycheck, but I couldn't help.  His coworker was also a confirmed and well known fundamentalist around town, and when I told him Ray had left with his brother to become a Christian, it was met with approval, and the rest of the conversation was about how the coworker hoped that Ray had found one of the Pentecostal religions, which was apparently the only firm foundation on which to build a solid commitment to Christianity.

I never knew what happened to his paycheck or his car.  His car sat in the parking lot of the ranger station for a month or so, and then disappeared.  Maybe he came back and got it.  I don't know.

[Cavebear]

I assume that at least one woman wasn't happy.  To bring pimping charges against the leader would have required at least one woman to come forward.

I had a friend who worked for the Forest Service back during those years, who had a vague interest in Christianity, but he didn't talk about it all that much.  One day, his brother showed up with a Volkswagen Van and a mixed group of hippy types, both male and female.  It was part of a larger group of Jesus Freaks who had another commune some place in Oregon, and he quit his job and left with them.  He didn't officially quit, he just didn't show up for work on Monday.  He did the Jesus thing of leaving his world possessions behind, including his paycheck and his car.  He told me I could have his car, although I didn't take him up on it, as it would mean transferring of title, and you can't just give away a car without transferring title, even if it's for religious reasons.

Before he left, he explained that the group had devoted their lives to Jesus, and then free and uncommitted sex in in the group was part of the lifestyle.  He was pleased with the idea of lots of sex.  That was his expectation, probably played up by his brother, although from my experience, sex is seldom "free or uncommitted", at least most of the time.

I never heard from again, so I don't know how it all worked out.  A coworker of his did call me asking if I knew where he was so they could send him his final paycheck, but I couldn't help.  His coworker was also a confirmed and well known fundamentalist around town, and when I told him Ray had left with his brother to become a Christian, it was met with approval, and the rest of the conversation was about how the coworker hoped that Ray had found one of the Pentecostal religions, which was apparently the only firm foundation on which to build a solid commitment to Christianity.

I never knew what happened to his paycheck or his car.  His car sat in the parking lot of the ranger station for a month or so, and then disappeared.  Maybe he came back and got it.  I don't know.

Yeah sex will get you all the time.  Well, mostly all the time.  Maybe.  Possibly...

[Baruch]

I'm surprised you even admit to that, since it demonstrates that not only is there no evidence for a deity in the bible (and by association, other religious texts) but that even believers had no basis for their beliefs other than the local loudest salesman of the text.

I am not the Abrahamic you think I am.  I know Buddhism and Hinduism too.  I like people, in spite of the wacky things they believe.

[Cavebear]

I am not the Abrahamic you think I am.  I know Buddhism and Hinduism too.  I like people, in spite of the wacky things they believe.

And I mostly don't BECAUSE of the whacky things they believe...

[Baruch]

And I mostly don't BECAUSE of the whacky things they believe...

Bear meet anti-bear ... I follow all of your posts, to read, to ignore, to comment on or to like.  You got me.

[Unbeliever]

Yeah, it's not IF it's when.  I've left instructions for my ashes to be scattered on my garden.  If anyone wants my gold fillings, they better be at the event.  LOL!

Maybe you could geocache them? It'd be like a treasure hunt!

[Unbeliever]

I assume that at least one woman wasn't happy.  To bring pimping charges against the leader would have required at least one woman to come forward.

I had a friend who worked for the Forest Service back during those years, who had a vague interest in Christianity, but he didn't talk about it all that much.  One day, his brother showed up with a Volkswagen Van and a mixed group of hippy types, both male and female.  It was part of a larger group of Jesus Freaks who had another commune some place in Oregon, and he quit his job and left with them.  He didn't officially quit, he just didn't show up for work on Monday.  He did the Jesus thing of leaving his world possessions behind, including his paycheck and his car.  He told me I could have his car, although I didn't take him up on it, as it would mean transferring of title, and you can't just give away a car without transferring title, even if it's for religious reasons.

Before he left, he explained that the group had devoted their lives to Jesus, and then free and uncommitted sex in in the group was part of the lifestyle.  He was pleased with the idea of lots of sex.  That was his expectation, probably played up by his brother, although from my experience, sex is seldom "free or uncommitted", at least most of the time.

I never heard from again, so I don't know how it all worked out.  A coworker of his did call me asking if I knew where he was so they could send him his final paycheck, but I couldn't help.  His coworker was also a confirmed and well known fundamentalist around town, and when I told him Ray had left with his brother to become a Christian, it was met with approval, and the rest of the conversation was about how the coworker hoped that Ray had found one of the Pentecostal religions, which was apparently the only firm foundation on which to build a solid commitment to Christianity.

I never knew what happened to his paycheck or his car.  His car sat in the parking lot of the ranger station for a month or so, and then disappeared.  Maybe he came back and got it.  I don't know.

I almost got sucked into Scientology in a similar manner - followed the girl who said it was just what I needed. She was so cute, I was just hoping to talk to her a bit longer, and before I knew it, I'd signed up for a "communication" course. It turned out to be not "just what I needed," nor did I see the girl anymore.

Oh, well, c'est la vie...

[Baruch]

Same thing happened to me years ago with Nichiren Shoshu.  The girl was only interested in her reincarnation, not in me ;-(  But I did get good at the Nam Myho Ringo Kyo chant in just a few days.

[Unbeliever]

What a coincidence! I too joined Nichiren Shoshu, way back in the late 80s, and chanted! And apparently for the same reason - again, I was following a girl. Now I use the chant to put me to sleep when I can't stop thinking, and yet must sleep. It helps turn off my internal dialogue long enough to drop off into blessed slumber.

[Baruch]

What a coincidence! I too joined Nichiren Shoshu, way back in the late 80s, and chanted! And apparently for the same reason - again, I was following a girl. Now I use the chant to put me to sleep when I can't stop thinking, and yet must sleep. It helps turn off my internal dialogue long enough to drop off into blessed slumber.

I learned to quell the monkey mind without Nichiren Shoshu ... been sane for quite some time now.  If you would get your satori on ... you would talk like Lovecraft, like I do.

[Unbeliever]

Is that what you do? I thought you just play confusing-devil's advocate.