Author Topic: Arctic sea ice hits record low  (Read 4437 times)

Offline Hydra009 (OP)

Arctic sea ice hits record low
« on: November 19, 2016, 04:22:33 PM »
Quote
Zachary Labe, a PhD student at the University of California at Irvine who is studying Arctic sea ice and extreme weather, tweeted that air temperatures over parts of the Arctic have been more than 18 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than normal.
Quote
“The overall trajectory is clear — sometime in the next few decades, maybe as early as 2030, we’ll wake up to a September with no Arctic sea ice,” said Mark Serreze, director of the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC), in Boulder, Colo.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2016/10/27/arctic-sea-ice-is-at-a-record-low-and-could-in-spurts-disappear-within-our-lifetimes/



That little red line is nowhere near where it has historically been.  At the risk of sounding alarmist, this is very bad.

What makes things worse is that we're nowhere where we need to be to effectively do anything about this problem.  The US has done little to its curb emissions, a situation that's unlikely to change for the better under Donald "Chinese hoax" Trump and a Congress where US Senator Jim Inhofe tried to disprove climate change by throwing a snowball in the Senate.  And now we're in a very dangerous situation because of this denialism-fueled inaction.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2016, 04:25:45 PM by Hydra009 »

Offline Shiranu

Re: Arctic sea ice hits record low
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2016, 05:31:40 PM »
It's okay, the EPA guy thinks global warming is silly, so we are in great hands.
Om Mani Padme Hum

Re: Arctic sea ice hits record low
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2016, 07:23:50 AM »
It's okay, the EPA guy thinks global warming is silly, so we are in great hands.
Another Trump of doom.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline SGOS

Re: Arctic sea ice hits record low
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2016, 07:31:31 AM »
It's odd that climate change is hitting an uninhabitable areas first where it's mostly out of sight/out of mind.  The permafrost is melting?  Who cares?  Permafrost is mostly useless, right?  Arctic Ice?  What good is that unless you're a polar bear?  In addition, it strikes me odd because the brutal climate of the poles seemed like it would better resist change than the more moderate climates.  The extreme conditions at the poles would seem to perpetuate the extremes.  Doesn't happen that way apparently.


Re: Arctic sea ice hits record low
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2016, 07:47:03 AM »
It's odd that climate change is hitting an uninhabitable areas first where it's mostly out of sight/out of mind.  The permafrost is melting?  Who cares?  Permafrost is mostly useless, right?  Arctic Ice?  What good is that unless you're a polar bear?  In addition, it strikes me odd because the brutal climate of the poles seemed like it would better resist change than the more moderate climates.  The extreme conditions at the poles would seem to perpetuate the extremes.  Doesn't happen that way apparently.


Those environments are in a precarious balance most of the time. Add a lot of BTUs, say from one degree warmer every day in the summer, and things tip quickly.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline SGOS

Re: Arctic sea ice hits record low
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2016, 08:36:52 AM »
Those environments are in a precarious balance most of the time. Add a lot of BTUs, say from one degree warmer every day in the summer, and things tip quickly.

It stands to reason that the extremes would be most susceptible.  And I actually realized this years ago when I wintered in Alaska.  The government was already planning on how to react to warming.  I wintered in a fishing village, where there was a lot of concern about the future of the salmon industry.  I actually saw more concern about warming in Alaska than anywhere in the lower 48.  All the planning was not about prevention, but about responding, but at least they were planning.  I thought it was unusual that a redneck state like Alaska would even be concerned.  But then the fishing industry was already troubled by the fact that it was suffering first in the lower 48, followed by a devastating hit in British Columbia.  Alaska would eventually see it too.  Of course, not all of that was from warming.  The fishing industry has a history of depleting it's own resources, just as most other extractive industries.

Offline Hydra009 (OP)

Re: Arctic sea ice hits record low
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2016, 10:34:14 AM »
While the Arctic is unusually warm, Siberia is unusually cold.

Up to 60°F colder than normal in some areas.  And this has been going on for weeks.

Re: Arctic sea ice hits record low
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2016, 10:47:54 AM »
While the Arctic is unusually warm, Siberia is unusually cold.

Up to 60°F colder than normal in some areas.  And this has been going on for weeks.
It's good to keep in mind that weather isn't climate.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Hydra009 (OP)

Re: Arctic sea ice hits record low
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2016, 11:59:07 AM »
The effect of a long-term climate shift is anomalous short-term weather.

Re: Arctic sea ice hits record low
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2016, 12:46:40 PM »
The effect of a long-term climate shift is anomalous short-term weather.
Yep, and odd highs and lows need to be seen in the framework of long term trends, not highly significant data in their out right.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Hydra009 (OP)

Re: Arctic sea ice hits record low
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2016, 12:58:51 PM »
Yep, and odd highs and lows need to be seen in the framework of long term trends, not highly significant data in their out right.
Got a decent historical comparison for the arctic, couldn't find one for Siberia but the article did point out that the Siberia data is extremely atypical in much the same way that the arctic data is extremely atypical.  It doesn't take a genius to figure out that there is more at play here than the normal changing of seasons.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2016, 01:02:29 PM by Hydra009 »

Re: Arctic sea ice hits record low
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2016, 03:00:38 PM »
Got a decent historical comparison for the arctic, couldn't find one for Siberia but the article did point out that the Siberia data is extremely atypical in much the same way that the arctic data is extremely atypical.  It doesn't take a genius to figure out that there is more at play here than the normal changing of seasons.
We've been warned. There's a site in the middle of the Sahara, several thousand years old, that shows hippos playing in a lake.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Baruch

Re: Arctic sea ice hits record low
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2016, 03:22:33 PM »
It's odd that climate change is hitting an uninhabitable areas first where it's mostly out of sight/out of mind.  The permafrost is melting?  Who cares?  Permafrost is mostly useless, right?  Arctic Ice?  What good is that unless you're a polar bear?  In addition, it strikes me odd because the brutal climate of the poles seemed like it would better resist change than the more moderate climates.  The extreme conditions at the poles would seem to perpetuate the extremes.  Doesn't happen that way apparently.

Melting permafrost releases a bunch of in-soil methane.  There are pockets of this also on certain ocean floors (Gulf of Mexico).  Releasing this methane, in the polar regions in particular, is what drives ice ages (by increasing greenhouse gases naturally).

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2015/oct/13/methane-release-from-melting-permafrost-could-trigger-dangerous-global-warming
« Last Edit: November 20, 2016, 08:15:42 PM by Baruch »
שלום

Re: Arctic sea ice hits record low
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2016, 11:43:48 AM »
Then why we still got ice cubes?  How long before a Republican actually asks that?  Oh, I forgot, Trump's in office.  You can expect that from the head of the EPA in a year or two, I'm guessing.
This sentence is a lie...

Offline Baruch

Re: Arctic sea ice hits record low
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2016, 01:00:41 PM »
Then why we still got ice cubes?  How long before a Republican actually asks that?  Oh, I forgot, Trump's in office.  You can expect that from the head of the EPA in a year or two, I'm guessing.

If we are talking about ice cubes that are man made, not the expensive kind cut from Alaskan glaciers (novelty items) or the local kind cut from New England Winter ponds ... then you need to remember that the original purpose of man-made ice, was a side effect of attempting man-made air conditioning, that was the side effect of a Southern US doctor trying to treat malaria victims.  Cause/Effect is non-linear.
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