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Did Jesus ever exist?

Started by fencerider, November 17, 2016, 12:36:28 AM

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Mike Cl

Quote from: popsthebuilder on November 19, 2016, 07:01:37 PM
What?

How do you know that to think one can never do anything isn't to always be wrong?
I don't understand your question.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

popsthebuilder

Quote from: Mike Cl on November 19, 2016, 08:30:43 PM
I don't understand your question.
Maybe I misunderstood you.

I thought you said to think one cannot do anything is to never be wrong.

I was asking how thinking you can't do anything equals always right instead of always wrong.


Mike Cl

Quote from: popsthebuilder on November 19, 2016, 08:44:46 PM
Maybe I misunderstood you.

I thought you said to think one cannot do anything is to never be wrong.

I was asking how thinking you can't do anything equals always right instead of always wrong.
You misunderstood.  If a person does not think they can do something, they are right, because they cannot/will not do it.  If I don't think I can fix my car, I'll be right, since I never will fix it.  If I really think I can fix my car, then I will find a way to do that. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

popsthebuilder

Quote from: Mike Cl on November 19, 2016, 09:31:00 PM
You misunderstood.  If a person does not think they can do something, they are right, because they cannot/will not do it.  If I don't think I can fix my car, I'll be right, since I never will fix it.  If I really think I can fix my car, then I will find a way to do that.
Oh...cool.
I like that.

Attitude is important I'm learning.

doorknob

Quote from: Mike Cl on November 19, 2016, 09:31:00 PM
You misunderstood.  If a person does not think they can do something, they are right, because they cannot/will not do it.  If I don't think I can fix my car, I'll be right, since I never will fix it.  If I really think I can fix my car, then I will find a way to do that.

So true. The only way I can fix my car is if family does it for me or I pay some one. I've tried helping my Dad but I'm just not strong enough for a lot of things and my hands are just too damn fat to fit into tiny crevices.

Mike Cl

Quote from: popsthebuilder on November 19, 2016, 09:32:23 PM
Oh...cool.
I like that.

Attitude is important I'm learning.
Attitude is everything.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Cavebear

I'm still waiting for any historical evidence that Jesus actually existed.  Any actual records from the time.  Not a century later.

I had a fascinating discussion with some Jehovah's Witnesses a couple of days ago.  They were shocked at the question.  I saw them comong and put on my Atheist hat.  THAT really discombuberated them.  So we had a nice discussion for 20 minutes on my front porch. 

I wasn't surprised that they hadn't the slightest idea what "evidence" was. To them, "evidence" is faith.  They said the Bible tells them Jesus was real.  I told them I had a book that said Unicorns were real.  They actually considered that valid.  Because I "believed" it.

Oh crap...

They are without the ability to think.  As are most theists...  They came by again and left a pamphlet on my door explaining how Jesus exists.  Some Biblical Archeologist said so apparently.  That's good enough for them.

Estimated IQ of 90.  And I may be being generous...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Power of positive thinking ...

I think I'm smart ... I think I'm smart ... I think I'm smart ...
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Unbeliever

You don't need to be smart - just be a cynical pessimist and you'll be right much more often than otherwise.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Blackleaf

Quote from: Unbeliever on November 22, 2016, 06:03:59 PM
You don't need to be smart - just be a cynical pessimist and you'll be right much more often than otherwise.

I'm way ahead of you.

"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Cavebear

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on November 17, 2016, 06:27:53 AM
No one knows for sure, but I think it likely, that there was a man by that name who preached, and possibly did some fake faith healing. But the supernatural nature of any of his actions, and the preponderance of his words, are embellishments by the authors, writing 70 years and more after the supposed events of their stories. Then these scraps were gathered together, by priests, many years later, and they kept the ones they liked, and threw out the ones they didn't like. Thus was born the Bible.

So "No one knows for sure", but you are convinced of his existence anyway?  There just aren't any records of Jesus, and the Romans kept good records.  Don't mistake that for saying there was no one named Jesus at the time.  It was a common name.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

I love history, but I am a skeptic.  I consider history to be a part of literature.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on November 28, 2016, 06:50:00 AM
I love history, but I am a skeptic.  I consider history to be a part of literature.

Three unconnected thoughts...

"I love history" is neutral and signifies nothing.

"I am a skeptic" is doubtful.

"I consider history to be part of literature", suggests that history is equally fiction and myth (as literature is mostly), not to be taken seriously.

Do you actually THINK before you type?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

doorknob

I must insist that jesus never existed as a real human.

I don't really even know if there is any actual evidence rather then testimony that he was. But even if there was a historical jesus it really doesn't mean much to me. It'd be no different then a historical muhammed or budda.

Cavebear

Quote from: doorknob on December 02, 2016, 02:47:56 AM
I must insist that jesus never existed as a real human.

I don't really even know if there is any actual evidence rather then testimony that he was. But even if there was a historical jesus it really doesn't mean much to me. It'd be no different then a historical muhammed or budda.

I will agree that even IF there was a real jesus preacher, it wouldn't change my view about the existence of a deity.  But I do love to annoy the J/W doorknockers with the question.  It really throws them off balance.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!