Did Jesus ever exist?

[Mike Cl]

I did and though I haven't researched this group I do hold great reverence for the mere ideal of unity, and find the Christ consciousness or Krishna consciousness to be likened to the selfless conscience.

Peace

Have you ever heard of the Metaphysical Bible Dictionary??

[Mike Cl]

Christ consciousness has little to do with what one wants in terms of attainment.

So you say.

[popsthebuilder]

Have you ever heard of the Metaphysical Bible Dictionary??

Not prior to today when I believe you mentioned it

[Mike Cl]

Not prior to today when I believe you mentioned it

I think you would like it.  Google it and read a bit about it.  If you like it, you can download the entire book (and it isn't short) for free. 

[popsthebuilder]

I think you would like it.  Google it and read a bit about it.  If you like it, you can download the entire book (and it isn't short) for free.

I don't doubt that I would enjoy the read for multiple reasons based on your description. I might read it at some later date further down the line though. People wouldn't generally agree with me, but as a rule I donot delve into the explanatory works of others when it comes to scripture of any sort. I will, and do read the core writings themselves, but do not rely on the interpretation of others, namely scholars in much of any significant way. I may look into the meaning of a theological term for clarification but that's about the extent of it. I honestly believe that one should read the inspired word of GOD for themselves. If they cannot comprehend it then they should simply continue to read until a fluidity in reading and comprehension is achieved. Because of the evident misdirection of some of the "religious" I wouldn't advise any blindly accept anything from the mouth or hand of another man, but that all things be compared to what one can know through the selfless conscience. Of course even this is a grand undertaking for some it seems, as so many seem so detached from just their basic conscience, let alone any altruistic or selfless conscience.

I do thank you for the suggestion though. It does sound interesting.

Peace

[Mike Cl]

I don't doubt that I would enjoy the read for multiple reasons based on your description. I might read it at some later date further down the line though. People wouldn't generally agree with me, but as a rule I donot delve into the explanatory works of others when it comes to scripture of any sort. I will, and do read the core writings themselves, but do not rely on the interpretation of others, namely scholars in much of any significant way. I may look into the meaning of a theological term for clarification but that's about the extent of it. I honestly believe that one should read the inspired word of GOD for themselves. If they cannot comprehend it then they should simply continue to read until a fluidity in reading and comprehension is achieved. Because of the evident misdirection of some of the "religious" I wouldn't advise any blindly accept anything from the mouth or hand of another man, but that all things be compared to what one can know through the selfless conscience. Of course even this is a grand undertaking for some it seems, as so many seem so detached from just their basic conscience, let alone any altruistic or selfless conscience.

I do thank you for the suggestion though. It does sound interesting.

Peace

Ah shucks.  Think nothing of it.  You do seem like a nice guy, even if you do believe in fictional stuff.

[popsthebuilder]

Ah shucks.  Think nothing of it.  You do seem like a nice guy, even if you do believe in fictional stuff.

And you seem nice enough despite your incessant stabs at beliefs which you don't have a full grasp of, nor how they relate to me personally due to lack of conversation of such on my part.

I would expect nothing less from any genuine individual.

Peace

[Mike Cl]

And you seem nice enough despite your incessant stabs at beliefs which you don't have a full grasp of, nor how they relate to me personally due to lack of conversation of such on my part.

I would expect nothing less from any genuine individual.

Peace

Not 'incessant stabs of beliefs which you don't have a full grasp of............' (how do you know that??); but incessant stabs at you lack of trying to understand even simple facts; of ignoring empirical data; and your incessant lack of understanding that I don't have beliefs--none--all I think is based on some evidence of some sort.   

[Baruch]

Not 'incessant stabs of beliefs which you don't have a full grasp of............' (how do you know that??); but incessant stabs at you lack of trying to understand even simple facts; of ignoring empirical data; and your incessant lack of understanding that I don't have beliefs--none--all I think is based on some evidence of some sort.

Empirical data for Jesus (of the Bible) would involve a time machine, and a trip into the past 2000 years ago, and a taking the Skeptics Society with you, to cross-examine this Jesus guy, if you could even find him.  Absurd.

However, what you think of as evidence, is partly based on your assumptions ... facts don't speak for themselves.

https://iai.tv/video/missing-evidence

Scientific method is a human dialectic ... an interplay between theory and evidence (neither of which exist without people), you can't have one without the other.  So for example, evidence for chaos was ignored for over 200 years ... the data points were simply thrown out.  And facts are fudged ... we now know thru high tech planetarium calculations that Ptolemy fudged his data to make his epicycle theory fit better what measurements they were capable of 2000 years ago.  Until chaos theory developed in the 1970s, they stopped throwing the data points out, and as it turned out (and didn't have to be) the theory was shown to be true (whatever that means).  Peer review literally didn't help, but impeded ... because the effort to keep nonsense out of science, has also effectively kept out progress (see Aristotelian physics endorsed by the Catholic Church).

So yes, absence of evidence for Biblical type miracles is telling ... so one can't take a Biblical narrative literally, any more than you can take Tom Sawyer literally.  One can debate, in literary criticism, the value of the Gospel of Mark ... but it is fallacious to debate the Gospel of Mark as theology (and in that I am completely opposed to 99% of theologians).

Popsthebuilder is speaking of subjective personal experience ... which will never be science (but then science isn't everything, it is something only).

[Baruch]

What I found most attractive about Unity is what they call Christ Consciousness.  Which translates into self-talk of a positive type.  Each has the Christ inside.  And it can be tapped in each of us.  What that means is that if you think you can't do something, you will always be right.  The thrust of this teaching is to learn to train oneself to think in positive ways--to see the positive paths to gaining what one wants.

What is crucial is wanting the right things.  If you want the common good, you are ethical, otherwise you are a predator.  Most people are predators most of the time ... so even the power of positive thought, is a two edged sword.

[Mike Cl]

What is crucial is wanting the right things.  If you want the common good, you are ethical, otherwise you are a predator.  Most people are predators most of the time ... so even the power of positive thought, is a two edged sword.

I would venture to say that it much more edged than two.  What is 'positive'???  What is being a 'predator'?  Self preservation?  Total evil?  Natural or societal or what??? What I do know is, if I think I can't do something, then I am always right.

[Baruch]

I would venture to say that it much more edged than two.  What is 'positive'???  What is being a 'predator'?  Self preservation?  Total evil?  Natural or societal or what??? What I do know is, if I think I can't do something, then I am always right.

You will have to expand that ;-)

i think you meant, if something stops me from my egotistical manifest destiny, then I am triggered, and should call in the Soros protestors ... or maybe my friends at the Federal Reserve to bail me out?

Hitler was engaged in self preservation ... but he thought he needed to kill millions of people to achieve that.  Self preservation is Social Darwinism ... which is the same as social predation.  Society should be about mutualism, not predation ... same as marriage and parenting.

If you can't define "common good" then you need to educate yourself.

[Mike Cl]

You will have to expand that ;-)

Come, Baruch.  I know that you know what I mean.  You are nothing if nuanced.  Very little is as it seems.  What is positive to me may be negative to you--but you fully understand that.  You fully well know that there is only one way to look at the world--from you own eyes; nothing else is possible.  I can imagine what others want or like (using the golden rule or one of it's partners) and make a pretty good guess.  But still, that is not what all want and still it is only a guess.  But I still try to make that guess daily.  And I do know that if I think I can't do something, I am correct all the time.  And the flip side to that is that I cannot succeed at something until I think I can.  Only then can I make plans or take the effort to get it done.  But you know all that.

[popsthebuilder]

Not 'incessant stabs of beliefs which you don't have a full grasp of............' (how do you know that??); but incessant stabs at you lack of trying to understand even simple facts; of ignoring empirical data; and your incessant lack of understanding that I don't have beliefs--none--all I think is based on some evidence of some sort.

I didn't mean that you don't understand general theistic ideology. I meant that you didn't understand my own perception. I worded it poorly. As far as you claiming that I don't accept imperial evidence, well feel free to offer some up, or at least reference what you claim I deny and we can see if indeed do deny it.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Peace

[popsthebuilder]

I would venture to say that it much more edged than two.  What is 'positive'???  What is being a 'predator'?  Self preservation?  Total evil?  Natural or societal or what??? What I do know is, if I think I can't do something, then I am always right.

What?

How do you know that to think one can never do anything isn't to always be wrong?