The End of America's Racial Détente

[Cavebear]

There was never a "racial detante".  Obama was just a very skilled politician with a good style and message.  I didn't vote for him because he was black; I voted for him because he was aspirational, rational, and thoughtful.  I thought he was simply the best candidate.  I wish he could have had a 3rd term.  He was the best person of any sort, any demographic, any category.  I was happier with him as President than any other President in my lifetime.

I'm not arguing about what he did or didn't do (though I could); I'm just saying that he was more like me in manner and thought than anyone else seeking the job.  And I admire and respect him.

[Mike Cl]

There was never a "racial detante".  Obama was just a very skilled politician with a good style and message.  I didn't vote for him because he was black; I voted for him because he was aspirational, rational, and thoughtful.  I thought he was simply the best candidate.  I wish he could have had a 3rd term.  He was the best person of any sort, any demographic, any category.  I was happier with him as President than any other President in my lifetime.

I'm not arguing about what he did or didn't do (though I could); I'm just saying that he was more like me in manner and thought than anyone else seeking the job.  And I admire and respect him.

He was my kind of president, as well. 

[Atheon]

Except it's not. You can do racist things without being racist, if you live in a society where those behaviours are the norm. "Being" a racist implies that there is rationalization and reason behind your actions, whereas there are many "racist" things we all do without a thought about it.

I've long distinguished between two types of racism: vicious racism and racism from ignorance. When grandma says "He's a very articulate colored person", she's displaying the latter. In her day, such a statement may have been considered very progressive, and no harm was intended. But when grandpa says "Those n*****s should be strung up from the nearest tree," that's vicious racism.

In this case, grandma is not a racist, but she said something considered racist today. Grandpa, however, is a racist.

[Cavebear]

I've long distinguished between two types of racism: vicious racism and racism from ignorance. When grandma says "He's a very articulate colored person", she's displaying the latter. In her day, such a statement may have been considered very progressive, and no harm was intended. But when grandpa says "Those n*****s should be strung up from the nearest tree," that's vicious racism.

In this case, grandma is not a racist, but she said something considered racist today. Grandpa, however, is a racist.

I disagree.  Gramma was racist and didn't know she was.  But she was...

[drunkenshoe]

There's also the fact that making it a trait rather than  a behavior slams the door shut on being able to do anything about it. If you're doing something that's wrong, you can stop doing that thing. If you ARE something that's wrong, there's really no solution to that.

By asserting that all white people are inherently racist, white people have essentially been freed of any obligation to think about or be concerned about racism. After all, white people will always be white, and therefore always be racist. No matter what. If there's no solution to a problem, why work on it?

Wow, what a righteous, pile of demagoguery bullshit written and liked by a bunch of white trash. 'Does it ever get cold on moral high ground', sweety? It doesn't, when it is not about you, does it?

You are talking as if white people actually cared or tried to do something about racism in their country before, but suddenly got their heart broken and stopped caring when they were called something bad. They have actually never cared if they are being called racist or not. They just didn't give a fuck, they didn't even know if racism was still a real, hot, ugly issue in their country before social media wars against SJW began. And it became a personal issue for them when somebody translated the 'the system is inherently racist' to 'Fuck you, you are all racists'.

Just so you know, this is not about 99 % of white Americans who actually never cared or got involved with anything about some issue -ANY issue- in their country, being called racists, but a bunch stupid white ass social media scum who made money from selling people like you a well designed product of your identity to match your 6 year old ego for years now. Yes, it's that easy and that simple. Manipulating American society; a narcissistic society that is completely involved with 'me' is as easy as slapping a child. This time the child smashed his head on the wall though.

Your culture is inherently racist. The system is inherently racist head to toe. And you are trying to punish people who expressed this truth out loud by 'it is your fault, you called us racists'. Trump has won because Trump is America. A religious and racist country. The rest of the white people is a very little minority living in actual diverse social environments in big cities and noone else actually cares about any of these issues other than jerking off to their own group.

In this case a group of white men who constantly demonise women, black people or anyone who is out of the white -right- ethnic group and right gender is jacked about being called racists and build a 'reasoning' on racist issue 'getting snubbed' because black people called all white people racists (!).


You know what, I actually started to get why America keeps ending up in certain administrations, Nonsensei. Because there is literally nothing in the country with people. Nothing. You people are ignorant as fuck, dumb as soup and narcissistic as an evil prom queen from a teenage soap opera.

But who gives a fuck? I am being an ass as usual from 5000 miles away and neither you, nor anyone agrees with you up there will be affected by any of this. So by all means, please carry on. Write something equally nonsense, I dunno hit the buttons on the keyboard randomly, so our forum members could jerk off to it to feel good about themselves.

[Cavebear]

Wow, what a righteous, pile of demagoguery bullshit written and liked by a bunch of white trash. 'Does it ever get cold on moral high ground', sweety? It doesn't, when it is not about you, does it?

You are talking as if white people actually cared or tried to do something about racism in their country before, but suddenly got their heart broken and stopped caring when they were called something bad. They have actually never cared if they are being called racist or not. They just didn't give a fuck, they didn't even know if racism was still a real, hot, ugly issue in their country before social media wars against SJW began. And it became a personal issue for them when somebody translated the 'the system is inherently racist' to 'Fuck you, you are all racists'.

[Parts deleted for brevity]

Chill!  By assuming all people of a demographic act the same way, you are being racist yourself.  You don't want to be what you condemn yourself.  Rail against the ideas, not the groups.  Groups are less cohesive than you think.

Not all white people voted for Trump and not all minority people voted for Clinton, right?

Do you agree with every person of your own demographic?  Do you agree with some people notof your demographic? 

It's the same for everyone. 

You think we are all racists because Trump is the President-elect?  More people voted for Clinton than Trump.  I'm an old white guy, and I was sick for a week after the election.  I even stopped blogging for a while.  But life goes on. 

DON'T assume everyone acts in accordance with a demographic.  It's offensive...

[drunkenshoe]

[Parts deleted for brevity]

Chill!  By assuming all people of a demographic act the same way, you are being racist yourself.  You don't want to be what you condemn yourself.  Rail against the ideas, not the groups.  Groups are less cohesive than you think.

Not all white people voted for Trump and not all minority people voted for Clinton, right?

Do you agree with every person of your own demographic?  Do you agree with some people notof your demographic? 

It's the same for everyone. 

You think we are all racists because Trump is the President-elect?  More people voted for Clinton than Trump.  I'm an old white guy, and I was sick for a week after the election.  I even stopped blogging for a while.  But life goes on. 

DON'T assume everyone acts in accordance with a demographic.  It's offensive...

You have a problem with understanding what you read.

[Cavebear]

You have a problem with understanding what you read.

Was there some fact or argument you wanted to impart?

[drunkenshoe]

Was there some fact or argument you wanted to impart?

No. It's plainly just that. You have a problem with understanding what you read.

I am saying that except a very little minority, white people do not care about racism as an issue at all. They have never cared about it before, they do not care about it now. They just don't give a fuck. Because it is not about them. It doesn't touch them. It's all the same for them if racism is an issue or not.

They just talk about it in forums and boards because it is anonymous, when there is something negative they can relate to themselves, it gets delicious and they start to create 'reasonings' on blaming the other side. Usually goes aruond teh word racist. 'They are calling us all racist'.

There is a big issue about the word itself. Racist. It's a learned behaviour that 'racist' is something you shouldn't be called, because it is an insult. Doesn't matter if you are or not. But that is just it.

You can actually be a racist, or only apathetic to the issue, it doesn't matter. The political correctness is so deep and thick it is about being called a racist, not even being one.

It's about insulting the white identity; culture which is by the way inherently the most racist, fascist ethnic group one earth. They do not give a fuck about racism at all, they are just jacked about being called racists and that's where it get delicious beause it is another self righteous bullshit to blame any other none white ethnic group. Masturbation.

[GSOgymrat]

Drunkenshoe, you are the one wagging your finger at us from your moral high ground. You are so completely entrenched in your own position that you can't even relate to some of the other members on this forum. I appreciate your perspective being outside America but you don't have an insider's perspective, you aren't living here. I honestly try to understand your point but all I see you doing is calling strangers racist, name calling, claiming we don't care and saying our American system is so corrupted we can't see out of it. Perhaps we can't. I know you're frustrated, we all are, but why should I want to listen to someone who thinks I'm racist, white trash, narcissistic, ignorant as fuck, dumb as soup, social media scum?... and an evil prom queen. I started this thread, so I know I'm in your field of fire. Maybe we are too different to have a productive conversation.

[Mike Cl]

No. It's plainly just that. You have a problem with understanding what you read.

I am saying that except a very little minority, white people do not care about racism as an issue at all. They have never cared about it before, they do not care about it now. They just don't give a fuck. Because it is not about them. It doesn't touch them. It's all the same for them if racism is an issue or not.

They just talk about it in forums and boards because it is anonymous, when there is something negative they can relate to themselves, it gets delicious and they start to create 'reasonings' on blaming the other side. Usually goes aruond teh word racist. 'They are calling us all racist'.

There is a big issue about the word itself. Racist. It's a learned behaviour that 'racist' is something you shouldn't be called, because it is an insult. Doesn't matter if you are or not. But that is just it.

You can actually be a racist, or only apathetic to the issue, it doesn't matter. The political correctness is so deep and thick it is about being called a racist, not even being one.

It's about insulting the white identity; culture which is by the way inherently the most racist, fascist ethnic group one earth. They do not give a fuck about racism at all, they are just jacked about being called racists and that's where it get delicious beause it is another self righteous bullshit to blame any other none white ethnic group. Masturbation.

I have to admit that I have come to the sad conclusion that America is and always was racist.  I've lived or been in all parts of this huge country.  I have see institutional racism everywhere, everywhen.  That does not mean that all whites are racist.  Or that all blacks are free of racism.  Not so.  What it means is that the very structure of our country is racist.  And it started with Plymouth Rock, Jamestown and St. Augustine. 

[Atheon]

I disagree.  Gramma was racist and didn't know she was.  But she was...

I see the -ist ending as meaning "one who practices...". There is agency there; a conscious will. Gramma may have been a life-long campaigner for equal rights, but she just grew up in an era where the word "colored" was accepted, and so it is habit. What she said may be considered a racist statement, but she is not a racist because she doesn't practice racism (which is the belief that one's own race is superior to others).

[drunkenshoe]

Drunkenshoe, you are the one wagging your finger at us from your moral high ground. You are so completely entrenched in your own position that you can't even relate to some of the other members on this forum. I appreciate your perspective being outside America but you don't have an insider's perspective, you aren't living here. I honestly try to understand your point but all I see you doing is calling strangers racist, name calling, claiming we don't care and saying our American system is so corrupted we can't see out of it. Perhaps we can't. I know you're frustrated, we all are, but why should I want to listen to someone who thinks I'm racist, white trash, narcissistic, ignorant as fuck, dumb as soup, social media scum?... and an evil prom queen. I started this thread, so I know I'm in your field of fire. Maybe we are too different to have a productive conversation.

Oh no, sweety. Nonsensei's post, what you have posted about an issue that cannot end is based on pure righteous bullshit and fake sense of moral high ground and entitlement when there is no issue for the promoters at all.

The posts and threads on racism in this forum are only about blaming and accusing any ethnic group out of white from an athlete making a gesture in a sports game to some activist groups' protest. The drill is that somebody posts a mainstream, politically correct, patched apologetic demagoguery on how it is all about the fault of the other side OR some other group. Masturbation starts. People push the like button. Then a poster comes and makes some more detailed last touches on the same bullshit and collective masturbation takes another turn.

There is no conversation on the topic. There is a group of white people blaming every other group with a different culture, gender or colour with anything possible. Oh yes they are polite, very politically correct and certainly they are not calling anyone names. So everything is fine, isn't it?

And I am fucking sick of this 'you are calling, strangers, this or that racists'. There is no position to have a conversation about racism in this forum. It's either you agree with a posted material which is all the same or not. When somebody posts anything different than the manstream bullshit, mostly Shiranu does, the convo goes various ways from 'it is like you hate being white and being a man' to you are so emotional hehehe to bans and accusations of harassments and shit.
I haven been a member of this forum for 7 years now, GSO, I ahev a long memory I have an idea what is going on this forum. Also it really doesn't require to be an insider to America to see what I am talking about here. It's neither that complicated, nor that alien to me.

So save your bullshit. You haven't posted a ground for conversation, an argument or some original idea that offers something different than the ugly hypocrisy, you are promoting it by throiwng blame. You are right though I cannot relate the bullshit of the most members of this forum, their constant apologetic stance on about the most bleeding issues, the way they constantly turn anything on its heads just to satisfy themselves and pretend that they are members of some sort of a minority intelligent club.

Nobody gives fuck about this even enough to talk about it openly in an internet forum anonymously. Yes narcissism, ignorance and stupidity wrapped up in sticky political correctness.

I am not just frustrated, I am angry and depressed. This is going to fuck countless lives up, mostly over here, but nothing, not a speck will get through and the same profile of people will continue to post the same bullshit, oh so politely relating to themselves.

[drunkenshoe]

That does not mean that all whites are racist. Or that all blacks are free of racism.  Not so.

This is strawman and it doesn't mean anything.

What it means is that the very structure of our country is racist.

Yes. And the amount of people who actually see that and understand what kind of an entitlement it provides is a very little group. Rest could care less than blaming black people and minorities for everything possible.

[Nonsensei]

Wow, what a righteous, pile of demagoguery bullshit written and liked by a bunch of white trash. 'Does it ever get cold on moral high ground', sweety? It doesn't, when it is not about you, does it?

You are talking as if white people actually cared or tried to do something about racism in their country before, but suddenly got their heart broken and stopped caring when they were called something bad. They have actually never cared if they are being called racist or not. They just didn't give a fuck, they didn't even know if racism was still a real, hot, ugly issue in their country before social media wars against SJW began. And it became a personal issue for them when somebody translated the 'the system is inherently racist' to 'Fuck you, you are all racists'.

Just so you know, this is not about 99 % of white Americans who actually never cared or got involved with anything about some issue -ANY issue- in their country, being called racists, but a bunch stupid white ass social media scum who made money from selling people like you a well designed product of your identity to match your 6 year old ego for years now. Yes, it's that easy and that simple. Manipulating American society; a narcissistic society that is completely involved with 'me' is as easy as slapping a child. This time the child smashed his head on the wall though.

Your culture is inherently racist. The system is inherently racist head to toe. And you are trying to punish people who expressed this truth out loud by 'it is your fault, you called us racists'. Trump has won because Trump is America. A religious and racist country. The rest of the white people is a very little minority living in actual diverse social environments in big cities and noone else actually cares about any of these issues other than jerking off to their own group.

In this case a group of white men who constantly demonise women, black people or anyone who is out of the white -right- ethnic group and right gender is jacked about being called racists and build a 'reasoning' on racist issue 'getting snubbed' because black people called all white people racists (!).


You know what, I actually started to get why America keeps ending up in certain administrations, Nonsensei. Because there is literally nothing in the country with people. Nothing. You people are ignorant as fuck, dumb as soup and narcissistic as an evil prom queen from a teenage soap opera.

But who gives a fuck? I am being an ass as usual from 5000 miles away and neither you, nor anyone agrees with you up there will be affected by any of this. So by all means, please carry on. Write something equally nonsense, I dunno hit the buttons on the keyboard randomly, so our forum members could jerk off to it to feel good about themselves.

You're right. Many white people don't really care about racism and rarely try to actually do anything about it. This doesn't make them racists themselves, but it does make them pathologically indifferent.

What the article describes is a scenario that was really the best we could hope for given the general indifference of the American people towards each other. It was a situation in which overt racism was severely punished. For example, if Donald Trump has run for president in 2000 instead of 2016 he wouldn't have even made it out of the primaries. The things he said about women and minorities would have sunk him before he even left port, if you will forgive a nautical analogy. Actually don't forgive it that was awful.

The article is trying to figure out what has changed. Why is it that starting this election year, an open bigot like Donald Trump can win an election when, 20 years ago he would have become a social pariah? Something has shifted among voters.  The article is suggesting that Americans stopped caring about bigotry because the rules that have regulated what is and is not considered bigotry have changed. Specifically, bigotry used to be something you did. Today it is something you are. Further it is something you are by virtue of being what you are.

So white people see the shift in political correctness that starts to define them as racists for being white. To be clear, it doesn't matter if this is true and it doesn't matter if the people effecting this change really mean that ALLLL white people are racist. All that matters for the purpose of this discussion is what the perception of the white American voter is.

What I am describing here is white victimhood, where a large portion of white people feel like they are under ideological assault. Essentially this is what I feel was one of the major contributors to a Trump victory. Instead of seeing racism as something external and reprehensible, they started seeing it as a bludgeon used to silence them. It became a label they couldn't avoid or remove. Their natural response was to reject the entire concept and retaliate at the polls.

And they did, putting Donald Trump in the white house and handing congress to the republican party.

And it could never have happened without social justice warriors. That is the overarching point. Social justice warriors made it impossible to be white and not a bigot in their minds. But rather than be chastised by the reality of their innate evilness, they rejected the entire concept in the most virulent way they could - they voted for the most openly bigoted candidate in recent history and the socially regressive party he represented. This is how SJW's contributed to social regression in a way only they could have accomplished. If not for SJW's Donald Trump would almost certainly not be president.

Again, I can't stress this enough: The reality doesn't matter. Whats actually going on is irrelevant. All that matters is the perception of these white american voters, and they felt victimized, as laughable as that seems. They responded the way any group of humans would - by striking out in retaliation. Unfortunately for everyone on the planet, that retaliation took the form of President Trump.

Believe it or not, as with many issues, the two of us are really on the same side. The old social order regarding racism had huge flaws. It left the field very wide open for racism to go undetected and unpunished. But the white American majority felt safe in it. They felt safe enough not to band together and make horrible voting decisions just for the sake of telling progressive groups to go fuck themselves. They felt safe enough to vote democrat and put socially progressive politicians in office, like Obama. By removing the illusion that racism was a specific problem rather than an institutional one, and by telling white people they were all the root of that institutional racism those white americans stopped feeling safe and started to feel angry.

I do think that racism is a huge problem in America, but I also recognize that white america in general is not ready to accept responsibility for institutional discrimination. Your gut reaction to that might be that they need to grow the fuck up, but that won't happen. And unfortunately, as we witnessed last month, white america is not above angrily voting a semi-sentient orangutan into office as a form of retaliation against having the truth smeared in their faces.