Author Topic: So, how does one go from believing in the eternity of the spirit to considering  (Read 1224 times)

A part of growing up is coming to terms with one's own morality.  That usually happens over time as we mature, making it not so bad.  But if you've avoided it all your life with magical thinking then coming to grips with it all at once can be quite difficult, I'm sure.  Reality is as it is.  There's nothing we can do to change it.
This sentence is a lie...

Offline Cavebear

A part of growing up is coming to terms with one's own morality.  That usually happens over time as we mature, making it not so bad.  But if you've avoided it all your life with magical thinking then coming to grips with it all at once can be quite difficult, I'm sure.  Reality is as it is.  There's nothing we can do to change it.

Morality is religious and externally applied.  Ethics are personal and individual.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Offline Baruch

A part of growing up is coming to terms with one's own morality.  That usually happens over time as we mature, making it not so bad.  But if you've avoided it all your life with magical thinking then coming to grips with it all at once can be quite difficult, I'm sure.  Reality is as it is.  There's nothing we can do to change it.

That is called Fatalism.  Like Cheney, I make my own reality!
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Offline Solomon Zorn

Quote
that soon we will all be nothing more than a rotting piece of flesh in a coffin?  Big change in belief.  I am having a hard time grasping the possibility that we will all be a rotting piece of meat in a coffin, nothing more, no afterlife for the people and animals I love (loved)...that I will one day no longer see the people and animals  I love (loved).  Mainly the God I believed in with all my heart and soul--or what I thought was a soul--is just magical thinking of the human brain.  How do I handle this...?...that we all are just a wink in a moment of time.  That you, me, them will one day be nothing more than a name...just a name in a census record...just a name.  And this will happen soon especially if one considers, really considers, that the earth is literally Billions of years...Billions of years old.  Billions.  And billions of humans have walked this earth...nothing special about you, about me, about the people I love (loved) including the children I have loved.That we are no more when we die...just creatures who die with nothing immortal about our souls...that souls don't exist.  So how does one go from believing in this to all this? Btw,  I have had too much wine to drink.  Because...because the thought that the mother I loved, that the animals I loved, end at the grave.  It's too much for this primitive animal brain to handle.

Help me please to handle this possibility sez the secular nun.  Big change...oh, yeah.
I can't tell you what to live for, but find some good reason in yourself, man. Life is fleeting and the good stuff doesn't last forever. For everything that lives there is a beginning, and an end. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. If there is something beyond the grave, in store for us, it will take care of itself. There is nothing I can do to prove it, disprove it, prevent it, nor prepare for it. No one knows. Those who say they know are deluded. Just let it go, is my advice.

As for passed loved ones, they are alive in the past. That's how I see it. A portion of their pattern is resurrected when I remember them. So I try to remember them fondly.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 04:30:21 PM by Solomon Zorn »
If God Exists, Why Does He Pretend Not to Exist?
Poetry and Proverbs of the Uneducated Hick

http://www.solomonzorn.com

that soon we will all be nothing more than a rotting piece of flesh in a coffin?  Big change in belief.  I am having a hard time grasping the possibility that we will all be a rotting piece of meat in a coffin, nothing more, no afterlife for the people and animals I love (loved)...that I will one day no longer see the people and animals  I love (loved).  Mainly the God I believed in with all my heart and soul--or what I thought was a soul--is just magical thinking of the human brain.  How do I handle this...?...that we all are just a wink in a moment of time.  That you, me, them will one day be nothing more than a name...just a name in a census record...just a name.  And this will happen soon especially if one considers, really considers, that the earth is literally Billions of years...Billions of years old.  Billions.  And billions of humans have walked this earth...nothing special about you, about me, about the people I love (loved) including the children I have loved.That we are no more when we die...just creatures who die with nothing immortal about our souls...that souls don't exist.  So how does one go from believing in this to all this? Btw,  I have had too much wine to drink.  Because...because the thought that the mother I loved, that the animals I loved, end at the grave.  It's too much for this primitive animal brain to handle.

Help me please to handle this possibility sez the secular nun.  Big change...oh, yeah.


You have to start caring whether your beliefs are true, or likely true, more than wanting to have beliefs that make you feel good.

Do you want to have an internal map of reality that is as close to reality as possible? Or do you want to live with a 'fantasy' map of reality?

The best method to attain the above, is by basing your beliefs on demonstrable and falsifiable evidence, and valid and sound logic.

You will live on in the memories of the people you affect, and the people they affect.

And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence - Russell

Offline Cavebear


You have to start caring whether your beliefs are true, or likely true, more than wanting to have beliefs that make you feel good.

Do you want to have an internal map of reality that is as close to reality as possible? Or do you want to live with a 'fantasy' map of reality?

The best method to attain the above, is by basing your beliefs on demonstrable and falsifiable evidence, and valid and sound logic.

You will live on in the memories of the people you affect, and the people they affect.

I prefer a reality map.  It has worked well my adult life of 55+ years. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Hell, even when I did believe it was more of a working hypothesis than faith. I had no trouble tossing the idea of eternal life as soon as I realized I need no longer fear that eternity spent in agony in hell.


God Not Found
"It is not God that is worshipped but the group or authority that claims to speak in His name. Sin becomes disobedience to authority not violation of integrity."
Radhakrishnan, Sir Sarvepalli

Offline Baruch

Hell is a frigid place where cowardly Vikings go.  They are stuck with Swedish women instead of Valkyries ;-)

Belief in eternity as ... a really long time .. is metaphysical ignorance.  Fear of death is human, but to give into that fear ... means you are a cowardly Viking.
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Agreeing with you on this.  Once you catch on to the fact that there is no "afterlife", this one becomes more valuable. It the only one we get.
Unless you're Gojira, in which case you will sequel for all eternity.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Cavebear

Unless you're Gojira, in which case you will sequel for all eternity.

I assume that is some anime joke?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Offline Baruch

I assume that is some anime joke?

Some of our posters ... are anime jokes ;-)
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Offline Cavebear

Looked up "Gojira".  Japanese for Godzilla.  Or to be more correct, I suppose, "Godzilla" is American for Gojira.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Offline Baruch

Looked up "Gojira".  Japanese for Godzilla.  Or to be more correct, I suppose, "Godzilla" is American for Gojira.

You are not ready to leave the Zen temple yet, Bruin ;-)
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Offline Hijiri Byakuren

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Looked up "Gojira".  Japanese for Godzilla.  Or to be more correct, I suppose, "Godzilla" is American for Gojira.
Actually, they're both mispronunciations of ゴジラ. "Go-ji-ra" and "Go-dzi-la" are both acceptable romanizations, and "Godzilla" was the one chosen by his Japanese creators.

There really isn't a correct way to romanize Japanese; only less-incorrect ways.

Offline Cavebear

Actually, they're both mispronunciations of ゴジラ. "Go-ji-ra" and "Go-dzi-la" are both acceptable romanizations, and "Godzilla" was the one chosen by his Japanese creators.

There really isn't a correct way to romanize Japanese; only less-incorrect ways.

IIRC, linguistic theory says there are about 40 sounds and most languages use about 25.  Human palates form at a very young age, which is why becoming TRULY fluent in non-birth languages is very difficult or nearly impossible.

The understanding of that is one reason the names of foreign cities keep changing in foreign languages. 

And BTW, the Japanese never called the creature "Go-ji-ra".  "R" isn't one of their consonants.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead