Uncensored Trump Rallies (NSFW)

[Baruch]

Even as a child, I never considered Lee to be a hero of any sort.  I regard him simply as a traitor.

I tend to agree ... but if you get into other people's dilemmas ... it isn't as clear cut.  I am still not sure George Washington was a good guy.

For me, General Lee could have been a really great American ... and ended the war quickly.  It took Lincoln until 1865 to find a comparable Union general (Grant).  But people back then were all Scarlett this and Rhett that ... pretty bizarre world compared to today.

[Mike Cl]

I tend to agree ... but if you get into other people's dilemmas ... it isn't as clear cut.  I am still not sure George Washington was a good guy.

For me, General Lee could have been a really great American ... and ended the war quickly.  It took Lincoln until 1865 to find a comparable Union general (Grant).  But people back then were all Scarlett this and Rhett that ... pretty bizarre world compared to today.

Lee valued Virginia and it's culture over that of the entire country.  So, he gave his considerable aid to the states who wanted to keep slavery.  That, today, he would probably be branded as a traitor. 

Washington was not pure as the driven snow, for sure.  But he could have ended up with a lot more power than he did.  He did set the tone for the future by handing off power as he did. 

[AllPurposeAtheist]

I don't want a coup..that's for sure, but if it means keeping the shitbags from completely fucking up the entire nation then so be it..

[Cavebear]

Even as a child, I never considered Lee to be a hero of any sort.  I regard him simply as a traitor.

Lee was brilliant.  But a traitor.  Jackson was brilliant.  But a traitor, and died.  Stuart was a traitor and died.  Lee should have been hanged.  Davis should have been hanged. 

[Baruch]

Lee was brilliant.  But a traitor.  Jackson was brilliant.  But a traitor, and died.  Stuart was a traitor and died.  Lee should have been hanged.  Davis should have been hanged.

Fortunately (see Lincoln second inaugural address in video) reconciliation ruled.  Vindictiveness would have required the execution of the entire White adult male population of the South, and the shipping of their women and children to Africa for 400 years of cotton picking.  Then Lincoln was killed and the US teetered on failure for a few days ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyCS-_MLd7g

I do blame President Andrew Johnson for failing Reconstruction ... but Radical Republicans still wanted a pound of flesh ... and gold in their carpet bags.  I agree with Lincoln ... both sides were Americans, though one side is sadly mistaken in their politics.  I feel the same about W Coast secession ... I would kill them, until they surrender.

[Cavebear]

Fortunately (see Lincoln second inaugural address in video) reconciliation ruled.  Vindictiveness would have required the execution of the entire White adult male population of the South, and the shipping of their women and children to Africa for 400 years of cotton picking.  Then Lincoln was killed and the US teetered on failure for a few days ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyCS-_MLd7g

I do blame President Andrew Johnson for failing Reconstruction ... but Radical Republicans still wanted a pound of flesh ... and gold in their carpet bags.  I agree with Lincoln ... both sides were Americans, though one side is sadly mistaken in their politics.  I feel the same about W Coast secession ... I would kill them, until they surrender.

No, a few bodies and heads would have made a profound effect on the South.  Hanged people do that.  Instead Lee was allowed to suggest forgiveness over the years and too many took it to heart.as an acceptance of their cause.  Davis, Lee, and all the top confederate generals should have been hanged and their bodies left on posts to discourage what happened afterwards.  Too many young men died fighting the insurrection for the leaders of the insurrection not to pay some price.

[Baruch]

Ah, but the South won.  Jefferson Davis survived, and Lincoln died.  Smoke and mirrors.  There are no final victories ... just the perpetual struggle.

Of course, the Southern leaders did commit treason ... but that charge had been weakened in the early Republic over the Aaron Burr affair ... it is very hard to prosecute ... when the leaders of the State themselves got into office thru treason.