How Do You Rate The 2nd Debate?

[Baruch]

Technology needs to be introduced to remove some of the CO2 from the atmosphere. One day we will terraform other planets, but we will probably get our first experience in this technology by terraforming Earth.

We are terraforming ... badly ;-(  Damn apemen!

[Baruch]

The "Jail Hillary" also appeals to "Bernie or Bust"ers because they want her jailed too.

It's very characteristic of how a dictator would act. Jail political opponents, though.... Yeah. That's great...

Nope ... wood-chipper is much more Nazi.  A benevolent dictator would be great ... maybe.

[Poison Tree]

I suspect the history books 50 years from now will mention Federalists, Whigs, and Republicans in the same sentence as failed Parties.

I heard the same talk 8 years ago

[Cavebear]

The difference is that the Republicans finally got want they have been striving for over 20 years and the beast is out of their cage.

[SGOS]

I don't know about "jail Hillary" as a major factor in the Bernie or Bust movement.  I think there were much greater ideals involved in it than that.  For some no doubt.  Someone always wants to jail every president we've had.  I don't take it seriously.

[Cavebear]

The jail Hillary idiotacy is not a Bernie or Bust movement,  It is a Trump base fantasy  And not really even a Trump one.  Even HE couldn't be THAT nuts.

[chill98]

In broad terms, I'd like to see healthcare costs more in line with other developed countries while retaining good quality healthcare and expanding coverage to people who otherwise couldn't afford it.  Whichever plan gets as much of that accomplished as possible is good enough for me.

Healthcare (in its broad range) is approx 18% of the GDP.  Lower costs and you lower GDP.  That is the underlying motive to keep costs high.

One issue that I consider extremely important is climate change.  We recently hit the 400 parts-per-million threshold at all observation stations, and it's going to be at least that for the foreseeable future.  This is the most important problem of the 21st century.

You should watch Clinton Cash, they touch on this subject in a couple of places including Columbia and pipelines.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/07/out-of-time-climate-change-hillary-clinton

She may inflict a carbon tax to appease that part of her base, but count on one thing, she won't actually do anything to disrupt the cash flow.

And the carbon tax will do nothing about CO2.  Global trade agreements will assure that. 

[Baruch]

Nuking China was insure that.  But that would be a bad idea.  Sorry, Civilization has reached its expiration date.  Too bad we will take all the higher life forms with us.

[Hydra009]

The "Jail Hillary" also appeals to "Bernie or Bust"ers because they want her jailed too.

News to me.  And didn't Bernie personally wave away the email scandal? (he didn't excuse it exactly, he just pleaded for the debate to be directed more towards substantive issues facing Americans)  So what charges would be brought that haven't already been considered?

It's very characteristic of how a dictator would act. Jail political opponents, though.... Yeah. That's great...

Yeah.  Clearly, his latest scandal got to him.  I'm still waiting on the lawsuit spree against various newspapers who have been "mean" to him.  This is a guy who once sued for the insult of being called a millionaire (quelle horreur!) and threatened to sue The Onion of all things.  He's so thin-skinned that I suspect the orangey rind over his face might some sort of protective sheath.

[PickelledEggs]

I've seen a few of my "Bernie or bust" aquaintances/friends say that they want her in jail, which is why I say that. whether or not it is a "bernie or bust" thing, I will accept a correction if it's needed. I did think it was though

[Hydra009]

I've seen a few of my "Bernie or bust" aquaintances/friends say that they want her in jail, which is why I say that. whether or not it is a "bernie or bust" thing, I will accept a correction if it's needed. I did think it was though

I'm sure there are people like that, in fact I know there are, but it isn't very representative of Bernie supporters as a whole.  Back in July, a Pew poll had 90% of Bernie supporters planning on voting for Clinton despite a few of 'em cheering an Infowars van with "Hillary for prison" on the side.  Since then, I've seen numbers all over the place in more informal polls but typically with Clinton having a majority of Sanders supporters.  The "Bernie or bust" narrative is overblown.

[GSOgymrat]

Regarding healthcare, I think the ACA is a step in the right direction but it is a compromised program that produces mixed results. I think a better solution would be Medicare for all, with insurance companies providing optional plans just as they do now. I am definitely receptive to other solutions however critics of ACA never produce a clear plan that will provide affordable, quality healthcare to all US citizens. Today I read this article on ACA:

The Affordable Care Act is covering people, holding down costs and not killing jobs

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/10/11/the-affordable-care-act-is-covering-people-holding-down-costs-and-not-killing-jobs/?utm_term=.3c09eac861d3

[Baruch]

No one is interested in providing low cost comprehensive health care (screw insurance) for the American people.  The only constituency is the American people, and they don't count as a persuasive special interest group.  Did I mention that Hillary's running mate supports Citizens United?

[widdershins]

The second debate was completely unfair.  The moderators kept cutting Trump off and let Hillary talk as long as she wanted so in the end Trump only got a few more seconds than Hillary.  I'm not sure if that is counting the time he talked during her turn or not.  If it is then it's even MORE unfair.

Seriously, though, Hillary missed a couple of good opportunities.  When asked if he had the discipline to be a good leader and she answered "No", with him interrupting with "I'm shocked to hear that" it would have been the PERFECT time to say, "He doesn't even have the discipline to not interrupt me during my time to speak".  Also, with the last question, which admittedly was a bitch to get sideswiped with, she should have given his answer, making sure to point out that he's not a quitter, that he never gives up and that the whole race people were telling him that he couldn't do it and he never quit and showed all of them, playing right into his ego and further cementing the certainty that he won't drop out no matter how damaged he becomes.

One thing Trump said, which was supposed to be a dig on Hillary, actually made me like her more.  "She wants to go to single payer".  SO DO I!  The ACA really is a disaster.  Yeah, a few million people who didn't have insurance before have insurance.  A few million more who don't qualify and can't afford it now don't get the tax return they depend on at the end of a year.  And those who do have it who didn't before are on such shitty plans that they're likely unable to afford the copay anyway.  So yeah, they can go to the doctor instead of the emergency room...for now.  Until the bills rack up and the doctor stops seeing them.  Then they're back in the destroyed credit, emergency room only rut they were in to begin with because the lowest income people have the highest deductibles.  And let's face it, the ACA didn't do the Democrats any favors.  They're still paying for it and likely will be for at least the next decade or until they can actually go to single payer.

[Hydra009]

The second debate was completely unfair.  The moderators kept cutting Trump off and let Hillary talk as long as she wanted so in the end Trump only got a few more seconds than Hillary.  I'm not sure if that is counting the time he talked during her turn or not.  If it is then it's even MORE unfair.

Trump spent more time bitching about the moderators than he did getting cut off by them, so he didn't do himself any favors there.

The same sort of thing happened during the Republican debate and the moderator told the guy who was complaining about it that that's the format he agreed to, basically told him to cram it.  That's how they should always handle complaints.

Or better yet, they should just cut the mic of whoever doesn't have the floor.  Interrupting is a dick move when Trump does it and it's a dick move when Kaine does it.  If you have to put a stop to it the hard way, so be it.