Is political partisanship irrational ..

Started by Baruch, October 10, 2016, 03:15:43 PM

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Baruch

Why do people want the head of the Political Science department at the University of Chicago or maybe Columbia, run their country?  Why do none of those oh so smart academics, ever run for office?  Maybe you don't want to know ... just leave it as inexplicable.  I doubt that even Lincoln was the smartest guy in the room in 1861.  And if you think Hillary is brilliant, or that Obama is a constitutional scholar ... you need to go back to reading your See Jane Kick Dick In The Balls Book.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Jason Harvestdancer

Quote from: Shiranu on October 19, 2016, 07:04:52 PM
Admitting you have no idea about what you are talking about when you are running for one of the most powerful positions in the world is not in anyway admirable, it is horrifying.

It's better to bullshit and lie to sound like you know what you're talking about when you don't, then to honestly admit that you aren't all-knowing.

No wonder this is an election between Trump and Clinton.
White privilege is being a lifelong racist, then being sent to the White House twice because your running mate is a minority.<br /><br />No Biden, no KKK, no Fascist USA!

GSOgymrat

Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on October 20, 2016, 11:58:20 AM
It's better to bullshit and lie to sound like you know what you're talking about when you don't, then to honestly admit that you aren't all-knowing.

Yes, this is correct. Politics isn't about being honest, just appearing honest. It isn't about being smart, just appearing smart. Politics is about persuading people. The Libertarian Party needs to pick a more skilled politician than Johnson, one who can soften the sharp corners of libertarianism, not come of as an ideologue and sell smaller government to the average American as "the common sense" alternative.

Mike Cl

I used to take pride in being independent--picking and choosing who and what I'd want to back.  But any more, that leaves me squarely and almost 100% democrat.  That does not make me happy.  It would be good if we had two viable parties giving rational reasons for each of their stands. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Shiranu

Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on October 20, 2016, 11:58:20 AM
It's better to bullshit and lie to sound like you know what you're talking about when you don't, then to honestly admit that you aren't all-knowing.

No wonder this is an election between Trump and Clinton.

Hey, welcome to reality. Glad you made it.

Politics is not about ideology, it's about results. And frankly, Clinton does know far more about the political system than the average Joe, and I'm going to say even far more than that than you.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Baruch

Hitler was persuasive, and a veteran too!
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Shiranu

#36
Quote from: Baruch on October 20, 2016, 06:52:13 PM
Hitler was persuasive, and a veteran too!

That's my point, oddly enough; Hitler knew how to operate within the system to get what he wanted instead of standing a corner throwing a hissy fit that the system hates him and he never gets his way and that it's so unfair. Instead Hitler worked within the system to change the system to one he liked, even if that system was one of the most horrific in modern history.


This is simply how it works, and it was another German who really explained it best in Bismark's idea of "realpolitik". Once you have accured enough power through policy based not on ideology but on practicality, then you can start practically applying policy based on ideology.

If you want to change the system, it has to be from within; fighting it from the outside is both ineffective and frankly a pathetically self-absorbed moral masturbation session about how much more principled you are for voting your heart and not your head. If you believe principle is voting in a way that makes the results even less favourable to you because of your pride, you're not principled you're just vain.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Baruch

Realpolitik ... we are all Nazis now.

Find out what people want to hear, and say that to them.  Works every time.  Ideology gets in the way of the practicality of finding that out, persuading people (who are already with you but don't know it yet).  Persuasion to a noxious ideology won't work ... that is what makes Germans guilty, not just Nazis.  The myth of the innocent German, or the innocent Vichy ... is the ugly foundation of modern Europe.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Shiranu on October 20, 2016, 07:34:44 PM
That's my point, oddly enough; Hitler knew how to operate within the system to get what he wanted instead of standing a corner throwing a hissy fit that the system hates him and he never gets his way and that it's so unfair. Instead Hitler worked within the system to change the system to one he liked, even if that system was one of the most horrific in modern history.


This is simply how it works, and it was another German who really explained it best in Bismark's idea of "realpolitik". Once you have accured enough power through policy based not on ideology but on practicality, then you can start practically applying policy based on ideology.

If you want to change the system, it has to be from within; fighting it from the outside is both ineffective and frankly a pathetically self-absorbed moral masturbation session about how much more principled you are for voting your heart and not your head. If you believe principle is voting in a way that makes the results even less favourable to you because of your pride, you're not principled you're just vain.

Hmm, I was going to say that Hitler operated outside the system, but you are right.  He got the right job, and THEN took over.

I agree about "changing the system".  As a college demonstrator, I was approached by some conservative yahoo who dared me to "get into the system and change it, since I was so annoyed".  I did, and had a fine 30 year career in Washington DC.  I may not have changed MUCH, but I changed some hings in MY little corner.  And given that I was just one person, "some change" was pretty good.  More details if asked...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

I have also spent 30 years sucking DC dick ... ummm!
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.