how loving christians are!

[popsthebuilder]

If you want to claim to know Jesus' position on things, yes, you do need an actual quote. You cannot just fill in the blanks of what wasn't said with whatever is convenient for you. I, on the other hand, have quoted the Bible for you, and those quotes went completely ignored. That tells me a lot about your honesty in approaching these issues from a Biblical standpoint.

What?  I'm sorry.  Really.  I must have overlooked them. Unintentionally I assure you.

Please, if you would, refer to the post number so I can read your previous post that you are speaking of.

Peace

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[Baruch]

Well that is how freethinking rolls.  I don't accept authority.  I would never tie myself to any book ... but if you do tie yourself to a book (fully as per Fahrenheit 451 or partially as some rhetorically despise) you can be any book you want to be ... even "Goodnight Moon".  I wouldn't want to take anything from experience, including reading experience, that makes me worse instead of better, but that is also my free choice.

Word of G-d?  Of course not .. that is ancient silliness.  Ancient people considered words in general, and written words in particular, to be magical.  But then again, since any human, including myself, am a demigod (see ancient views of this, not unlike X-men) ... my words are words of a demigod ;-)  My powers are pretty common, not like Hollywood of course.  If any of that is inspired, is a matter of opinion.

On the other hand, I am not pro-moral, pro-ethics, pro-law ... those are all ... anti-freedom.  My sense of what I want to do or not do, is subjective and mercurial ... living, not like dead words in a law book.  So clearly I am not rabbinic ... those are puritanical and legalist (as Paul points out).  I want to be better, but as I define it ... and my choice is some balance between common good and selfish good.

[popsthebuilder]

If it is a flawed book, then it is not the Word of God, and is not something to base your morals on. And boy is it flawed. Why choose the Bible over any other work of fiction as the basis for your beliefs or morals?

You shouldn't base your morals off of any book.

The law of Moses was manipulated somewhere down the line. It is the literal interpretation that Jesus himself spoke against repeatedly. Even within the OT it is noted repeatedly that the Jew had gone astray.

Peace

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[Mike Cl]

You shouldn't base your morals off of any book.

The law of Moses was manipulated somewhere down the line. It is the literal interpretation that Jesus himself spoke against repeatedly.
Peace

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Really?  I missed that.  Where did Jesus say that?

[Baruch]

You shouldn't base your morals off of any book.

The law of Moses was manipulated somewhere down the line. It is the literal interpretation that Jesus himself spoke against repeatedly. Even within the OT it is noted repeatedly that the Jew had gone astray.

Peace

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Repeating the anti-Semitism that is in both the OT and the NT.  Individual Jews may have gone astray ... but I seen no reason to brand a whole people for anything.  Jews and Gentiles are both mortal.  Supposedly, we are to believe, that the broken prophetic tradition was restored by Ezra, and that the one true Torah was regenerated during his time as leader in Jerusalem, both written and oral.  And rabbinic Judaism wants us to believe that oral Torah was regenerated generation by generation down to the early 3rd century CE under the rabbis.  And I think that would be a fine Jewish thing to believe ... down to the 7th century CE ... when Muhammad upset the apple cart.

[popsthebuilder]

Really?  I missed that.  Where did Jesus say that?

Look into any conversation he had with the Pharisees in scripture.

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[Baruch]

Look into any conversation he had with the Pharisees in scripture.

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Jesus implied that the Pharisees didn't go far enough, they only met the letter of the Torah, not the spirit.

Matt 23:1-5 "Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do to be seen by men."

Fullfill - don't mean abolish, it means executing perfectly ... words and deeds aligned.

[popsthebuilder]

Jesus implied that the Pharisees didn't go far enough, they only met the letter of the Torah, not the spirit.

Matt 23:1-5 "Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do to be seen by men."

Fullfill - don't mean abolish, it means executing perfectly ... words and deeds aligned.

The verse you mention is against hypocrisy.

I don't have the time right now to go through and find what I am speaking about, but I will try later. If I recall correctly; in cases where Jesus is speaking to a Pharisee, and even when he is speaking to the disciples; he rebukes them for their literal interpretation and as you said; lack of spiritual guidance, thinking of things in a wholly material sense.

I will look into it earlier,  but it may take some time.  I am not wholly familiar with the Bible and must actually read and find what I am talking about.

Peace

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[Cavebear]

I don't really care if someone is Christian, Moslem, Jew, Hindu or whatever,  They are all damn nuts...

[popsthebuilder]

I don't really care if someone is Christian, Moslem, Jew, Hindu or whatever,  They are all damn nuts...

All of those teach the same thing. Which is mercy and helping those in need.

What is crazy about that?

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[Cavebear]

No, those are people helping people.  That is the basis of ALL religious texts.  They merely codify what people had already figured out on their own to survive in larger groups.  The "nuts" part is the deity they back-create to explain that we should continue to do the positive things we had already figured out.

[Solomon Zorn]

All of those teach the same thing. Which is mercy and helping those in need.

What is crazy about that?

That's not the crazy part. There are plenty of crazy parts. You ignore all the bullshit, apparently, and just accept what agrees with what you want to believe. Pragmatic, but not very Christian.

[Cavebear]

I'm kind of with you Solomon.  If there was a deity, wouldn't it just of write "I'M HERE  in firey letters in the sky.?   Otherwise, it seems like cruel torture

Seriously How would there be a stupid cruel deity?

[popsthebuilder]

No, those are people helping people.  That is the basis of ALL religious texts.  They merely codify what people had already figured out on their own to survive in larger groups.  The "nuts" part is the deity they back-create to explain that we should continue to do the positive things we had already figured out.

They have been figured out do to what?

I'll give you a hint; it doesn't have anything to do with a book or multiple books and writings, but these writings are indeed a sort of tool for remembrance.

Peace

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[popsthebuilder]

That's not the crazy part. There are plenty of crazy parts. You ignore all the bullshit, apparently, and just accept what agrees with what you want to believe. Pragmatic, but not very Christian.

I do not cherry pick from any writing sir,  and though I do claim to be a Christian, I also claim to be simply faithful unto GOD, or at least try to be. What I'm trying to say is that I am not your stereotypical Christian. Though I am a firm believer in the teachings, example, and self sacrifice of the Christ, I actually went from atheist to faithful and didn't read anything about the Christ for about four years. Really I didn't start reading core scriptures of any religion until maybe a year and a half- two years ago. I actually waited to read the bible because I presumed it was rife with error and misdirection. And though there are small parts that seem to go against what I know to be right, specifically in the OT, the book as a whole is indeed inspired by GOD, however you want to take that.

The selfless conscience is objective morality within the grasp of all singular free agents. It is holy as in different. It is potentially in each and every one of us. It seems to be their naturally, yet difficult for many to grasp, due to deceit on an inner most level. Regardless,  what I am getting at is that even if this right way,  this narrow path has even evolved into our being; it is still the creation and will of GOD, for our sake.

Peace

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