Author Topic: how loving christians are!  (Read 15860 times)

Offline doorknob (OP)

how loving christians are!
« on: October 06, 2016, 11:03:24 PM »


he takes it quite well

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: how loving christians are!
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2016, 01:01:33 AM »
I have a tough time seeing how anyone can look forward to seeing others suffer at the hands of a loving god.. It just a bit contradictory..
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Re: how loving christians are!
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2016, 06:17:16 AM »
The thing is, they're not Christians. Nobody is a Christian, because nobody can follow ALL the "rules" he purported passed along, they're contradictory at best, evil at worst.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Baruch

Re: how loving christians are!
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2016, 06:28:07 AM »
Or reflective of reality ... contradictory at best, evil at worst.  Thus something of this world, not some ideal Platonic world (where a Hellenistic Jew would expect to get revelations, not from their ass).
שלום

Re: how loving christians are!
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2016, 06:39:05 AM »
There are only two commands that Christians are to follow. The rest of the law stems from those two commands. They can be kept.

Peace

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk


Re: how loving christians are!
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2016, 06:51:59 AM »
There are only two commands that Christians are to follow. The rest of the law stems from those two commands. They can be kept.

Peace

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk


Cafeteria Christians everywhere agree.

Without bothering to find out what you're talking about, of course.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: how loving christians are!
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2016, 06:58:12 AM »
Cafeteria Christians everywhere agree.

Without bothering to find out what you're talking about, of course.
I don't know what a cafeteria Christian is, but it has been my experience that most self proclaimed Christians do not agree with me and are quite confused.

It's referred to as a stumbling block in scripture. It is saddening and nearly disheartening to witness such.

Peace

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk


Offline Baruch

Re: how loving christians are!
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2016, 12:53:07 PM »
There are only two commands that Christians are to follow. The rest of the law stems from those two commands. They can be kept.

Peace

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk

What is proselytizing and what is love?  Paul's love is poetic.  So we should proselytize poetic love?  Isn't that what Saffo was doing centuries earlier?
שלום

Re: how loving christians are!
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2016, 01:48:18 PM »
There are only two commands that Christians are to follow. The rest of the law stems from those two commands. They can be kept.

Peace

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk

Do you not find it incredibly ironic that the man who was given the Ten Commandments by God came down from the mountain, saw that the people made a statue, and said that someone needed to be killed? For breaking a law which the people hadn't received yet, God commanded that Moses break another one of his commandments and kill those responsible. Morality does not come from religion. Over the centuries it was secular thought that brought us into our 21st Century moral senses, which changed Christianity from embracing slavery to being against it, from treating women as lesser citizens to making them equal to men, and is currently changing it again to be for the rights of homosexual people.
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

Re: how loving christians are!
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2016, 02:05:12 PM »
Do you not find it incredibly ironic that the man who was given the Ten Commandments by God came down from the mountain, saw that the people made a statue, and said that someone needed to be killed? For breaking a law which the people hadn't received yet, God commanded that Moses break another one of his commandments and kill those responsible. Morality does not come from religion. Over the centuries it was secular thought that brought us into our 21st Century moral senses, which changed Christianity from embracing slavery to being against it, from treating women as lesser citizens to making them equal to men, and is currently changing it again to be for the rights of homosexual people.
Morality comes from honest introspection and the selfless conscience, both endowed and formed and created by GOD.

I agree that some religions have gone and lead others astray. I agree that there is error which is both spoken of and spoken against in the same book, even the same testament...showing that man, though having capacities for morality, too have capacities for greed and wrong.

Different times call for different things,  yet I am not condoning slaver, even in the OT. Most cases, even in the OT are speaking metaphorically in relation to the believer and GOD.

The Christ plainly ended the decree of acceptance of slaver and bonds what so ever with those same two commands, yet most truly are willfully ignorant to the fact.

Peace

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk


Re: how loving christians are!
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2016, 02:46:01 PM »
Morality comes from honest introspection and the selfless conscience, both endowed and formed and created by GOD.

Then why is it that secular morality has to come in and fix religious morality? You want to see how Christians would act if they followed Biblical morality? Look at Islamic countries and see how they do things. It wouldn't be much different. If morality were truly from God, would the books he chooses to communicate with us exclusively by be a little more moral and a little less barbaric?

I agree that some religions have gone and lead others astray. I agree that there is error which is both spoken of and spoken against in the same book, even the same testament...showing that man, though having capacities for morality, too have capacities for greed and wrong.

Yes, religions do lead people astray, especially Christianity, which has been holding Western societies back intellectually and morally since for centuries.

Different times call for different things,  yet I am not condoning slaver, even in the OT. Most cases, even in the OT are speaking metaphorically in relation to the believer and GOD.

Was the Bible being metaphorical when it said that other nations would either be forced into labor if they give up peacefully, or their women and children taken as spoils if they fight back?

Deuteronomy 20:10-15: - "When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby."

Notice that this is how they were to treat cities that were "at a distance," in other words, "far away." Why attack a city that isn't neighboring yours and is not a threat? To take advantage of your superior strength, of course. So these people who the Israelites attacked unprovoked were given a choice: either they all become slaves or their women and children are made slaves. Not to mention the half dozen times God willfully turned his own people to their enemies, allowing them to become enslaved when he wasn't happy with them.

The Christ plainly ended the decree of acceptance of slaver and bonds what so ever with those same two commands, yet most truly are willfully ignorant to the fact.

Haha! No. The two "greatest commandments" made no mention of slavery. The New Testament even refers to believers as God's slaves. That is how accepting of slavery the New Testament God was.

Romans 6:15-23: "What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

"I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness. When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

But what else would you call a group of people who give hours of their time to the church and its functions every week, and hand over 10% or more of their hard-earned money?

The ban of slavery had nothing to do with the Bible. In fact, those for slavery were the ones applying the Bible. When slavery was made illegal, it was because of the moral compass that people had, despite their religion telling them otherwise.
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

Re: how loving christians are!
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2016, 03:29:53 PM »
I don't know what a cafeteria Christian is, but it has been my experience that most self proclaimed Christians do not agree with me and are quite confused.

It's referred to as a stumbling block in scripture. It is saddening and nearly disheartening to witness such.

Peace

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk
Yes you do--you are a living example of what he was talking about.  You, like all other theists take a little from here, a little from there and a bit of this and a bit of that.  And that is what they believe--for today.  But there there is always another setting in the cafeteria, so it does not matter.  Hypocrite is the only constant.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: how loving christians are!
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2016, 03:57:49 PM »
Then why is it that secular morality has to come in and fix religious morality? You want to see how Christians would act if they followed Biblical morality? Look at Islamic countries and see how they do things. It wouldn't be much different. If morality were truly from God, would the books he chooses to communicate with us exclusively by be a little more moral and a little less barbaric?

Yes, religions do lead people astray, especially Christianity, which has been holding Western societies back intellectually and morally since for centuries.

Was the Bible being metaphorical when it said that other nations would either be forced into labor if they give up peacefully, or their women and children taken as spoils if they fight back?

Deuteronomy 20:10-15: - "When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby."

Notice that this is how they were to treat cities that were "at a distance," in other words, "far away." Why attack a city that isn't neighboring yours and is not a threat? To take advantage of your superior strength, of course. So these people who the Israelites attacked unprovoked were given a choice: either they all become slaves or their women and children are made slaves. Not to mention the half dozen times God willfully turned his own people to their enemies, allowing them to become enslaved when he wasn't happy with them.

Haha! No. The two "greatest commandments" made no mention of slavery. The New Testament even refers to believers as God's slaves. That is how accepting of slavery the New Testament God was.

Romans 6:15-23: "What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

"I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness. When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

But what else would you call a group of people who give hours of their time to the church and its functions every week, and hand over 10% or more of their hard-earned money?

The ban of slavery had nothing to do with the Bible. In fact, those for slavery were the ones applying the Bible. When slavery was made illegal, it was because of the moral compass that people had, despite their religion telling them otherwise.
I'm not interested in your pre-made rebuttals.

The Christ said to love your neighbor as yourself, and expounded further by saying to treat your enemy as your friend.

You cannot own a human life and to love them as yourself.

That's all.  It's that simple.

Peace

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk


Offline Baruch

Re: how loving christians are!
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2016, 06:05:22 PM »
I'm not interested in your pre-made rebuttals.

The Christ said to love your neighbor as yourself, and expounded further by saying to treat your enemy as your friend.

You cannot own a human life and to love them as yourself.

That's all.  It's that simple.

Peace

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk

Alas, people have much self hate ... and mutual hate.  So it is hard to follow those commandments.  Also which "love"?  In original Greek it is ... eros, philos or agape.  Of course it is agape, love of the common good.  But what is that?  Early Christians were law breakers, violators of Roman law ... is that for the common good?  They will claim a higher legalistic calling ... but anyone can claim that.  Except when Paul is talking out of both sides of his mouth ... regarding the Emperor being appointed by G-d, and thus must be obeyed.
שלום

Re: how loving christians are!
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2016, 07:13:59 PM »
Alas, people have much self hate ... and mutual hate.  So it is hard to follow those commandments.  Also which "love"?  In original Greek it is ... eros, philos or agape.  Of course it is agape, love of the common good.  But what is that?  Early Christians were law breakers, violators of Roman law ... is that for the common good?  They will claim a higher legalistic calling ... but anyone can claim that.  Except when Paul is talking out of both sides of his mouth ... regarding the Emperor being appointed by G-d, and thus must be obeyed.
Assumption from ignorance, thankfully.

Loving GOD, which is to say; being devout to what can be known of GOD within our life effectually negates self loathing tendencies. I am speaking from personal experience.


humbly,
peace

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk