Assisted Suicide

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Sounded funny to me.

[Jack89]

Ok, my step-dad was approved for the assisted suicide drugs and the powder is now at the Long-term care facility he's staying at.  I've told him that I will be there for him until he dies, but that I would not be a part of his assisted suicide.  He says he's ok with that.
I visit dad 3 times a day, around meal times, and stay for an hour or two each time.  As I was leaving this morning, I bumped into a friend of dad's who was on her way to visit him and she had tears in her eyes.  I ask her if everything was OK and she told me that dad asked her yesterday to help him mix the drugs to end his life, and she had agreed.  She said she was up all night thinking about it and came to the conclusion that she just couldn't do it.  She said that she voted for the "Death with Dignity" bill and wholeheartedly agreed with it, until last night.  When faced with the immediacy of it, she had to look it square in the face and realized that not only is she now unwilling to help dad with his suicide, she is opposed to the idea of it. 
She asked me to come into dad's room with her and be there when she told him she couldn't help him.  She told him, and tried passionately to convince him that he shouldn't go through with it.  Dad was understanding but I think ultimately unconvinced.  He said he would hold off for a while longer but was keeping that card on the table.

[aitm]

When one of my brothers was told his brain tumor was back and little could be done, the other made a pact with him. Now the second teaches criminal forensic sciences and travels the world teaching police departments what to look for, so we were pretty much convinced he could do it without any "discovery". Unfortunately, the first's wife, heard him mumbling in an early delusion guarded him from my other brother. He died very slowly, but not so much in pain, well…we think not, who knows what goes on inside the mind when muscles go.

No need for you to read this Jack
[spoiler]But I can only think it was bad as the cancer grew out his eyes and ears months before he died. Very..very disturbing for the 4 daughters to look upon that face instead of remembering the one prior.[/spoiler]

[Mike Cl]

Ok, my step-dad was approved for the assisted suicide drugs and the powder is now at the Long-term care facility he's staying at.  I've told him that I will be there for him until he dies, but that I would not be a part of his assisted suicide.  He says he's ok with that.
I visit dad 3 times a day, around meal times, and stay for an hour or two each time.  As I was leaving this morning, I bumped into a friend of dad's who was on her way to visit him and she had tears in her eyes.  I ask her if everything was OK and she told me that dad asked her yesterday to help him mix the drugs to end his life, and she had agreed.  She said she was up all night thinking about it and came to the conclusion that she just couldn't do it.  She said that she voted for the "Death with Dignity" bill and wholeheartedly agreed with it, until last night.  When faced with the immediacy of it, she had to look it square in the face and realized that not only is she now unwilling to help dad with his suicide, she is opposed to the idea of it. 
She asked me to come into dad's room with her and be there when she told him she couldn't help him.  She told him, and tried passionately to convince him that he shouldn't go through with it.  Dad was understanding but I think ultimately unconvinced.  He said he would hold off for a while longer but was keeping that card on the table.

I feel the opposite--totally and completely.  My dad committed suicide because he was in the final stages of emphysema and nothing gave him relief.  He was still at home, but was attached to an oxygen bottle on a long line.  He ended up taping a long hose to the tailpipe of his car in the garage; taped the window shut and turned the car on.  That's how mom found him.  My only regret is that I could not have helped him end this life with more dignity and comfort.  I find the govt. to be both unethical or moral in it's stance against assisted suicide.  My mother almost committed suicide and would have in different situations.  He had stage 4 ovarian cancer.  That was a death sentence; only when was the question.  As it happened she was lucky in that the end happen quickly and she passed quickly.  You may feel it is immoral to commit suicide; then don't do it.  But if I want to what business is it to you????  I detest those who expect me to live up to what they think is moral.  It is none of their fucking business.  I really feel for your dad---and the support he is getting from his 'family'.

[Jack89]

I feel the opposite--totally and completely.  My dad committed suicide because he was in the final stages of emphysema and nothing gave him relief.  He was still at home, but was attached to an oxygen bottle on a long line.  He ended up taping a long hose to the tailpipe of his car in the garage; taped the window shut and turned the car on.  That's how mom found him.  My only regret is that I could not have helped him end this life with more dignity and comfort.  I find the govt. to be both unethical or moral in it's stance against assisted suicide.  My mother almost committed suicide and would have in different situations.  He had stage 4 ovarian cancer.  That was a death sentence; only when was the question.  As it happened she was lucky in that the end happen quickly and she passed quickly.  You may feel it is immoral to commit suicide; then don't do it.  But if I want to what business is it to you????  I detest those who expect me to live up to what they think is moral.  It is none of their fucking business.  I really feel for your dad---and the support he is getting from his 'family'.

Sorry to hear about your parents' suffering.

[Jack89]

When one of my brothers was told his brain tumor was back and little could be done, the other made a pact with him. Now the second teaches criminal forensic sciences and travels the world teaching police departments what to look for, so we were pretty much convinced he could do it without any "discovery". Unfortunately, the first's wife, heard him mumbling in an early delusion guarded him from my other brother. He died very slowly, but not so much in pain, well…we think not, who knows what goes on inside the mind when muscles go.

No need for you to read this Jack
[spoiler]But I can only think it was bad as the cancer grew out his eyes and ears months before he died. Very..very disturbing for the 4 daughters to look upon that face instead of remembering the one prior.[/spoiler]

Sorry to hear about your brother and the pain it caused your family.  While I don't agree with assisted suicide and will continue to try to convince my dad to die a natural death, I think legally preventing someone from choosing it may be the wrong approach.  I often think my dad, a stubborn old bastard, just wants the option on the table.  A semblance of control over his demise.  I'm a fan of J.S. Mill's harm principle and feel that while some choices may be wrong, they still need to be choices.  It's not freedom if there's no choice, and it's not morality if you're forced to comply.  That's only if it doesn't directly harm others, of course.

[Mike Cl]

Sorry to hear about your brother and the pain it caused your family.  While I don't agree with assisted suicide and will continue to try to convince my dad to die a natural death, I think legally preventing someone from choosing it may be the wrong approach.  I often think my dad, a stubborn old bastard, just wants the option on the table.  A semblance of control over his demise.  I'm a fan of J.S. Mill's harm principle and feel that while some choices may be wrong, they still need to be choices.  It's not freedom if there's no choice, and it's not morality if you're forced to comply.  That's only if it doesn't directly harm others, of course.

Good answer.  I only wish our lawmakers felt the same way.

[Cavebear]

I accept the idea of assisted suicide and will hope that it is legal when my time comes.

What bothers me about the arguments against it is that we seem to choose not to give OURSELVES the freedom from pain, suffering, and confusion that would be considered an abuse of our pets. 

Not everyone has had an old pet.  I have had several cats who grew old.  At one point, I made them actually die naturally.  It was not a kindness to them.  I stopped that.

In early 2008, my best cat ever, Skeeter, my "heart" cat, began to suffer kidney failure.  The vet said he wouldn't suffer until he was leaning against walls just to stand up.  That day came, and I brought him to the vet.  He wasn't really in this world anymore.

The vet game him a sedative shot, then a final one.  I looked him in the eyes as he died.  I suspect the sedative alone killed him.

I waited a month too long.  He was miserable the last month.  But we try to keep life going, fearing our own deaths.

Had I had it to do over, I would have demanded he be released from his difficult life the month earlier.  *I* knew it was time, the vet refused. 

I would not accept that for him again, I will not accept that for the loved cats currently with me, and I would not accept that for ME!

My mother died basically shaking and choking to death from various old age problems and begged for euthanasia.  My dad died the same way in weeks of struggling to breath and fighting with doctors about breathing tubes he kept pulling out his throat in his last days. 

I only learned about that afterwards.  That is no way to die.  And I don't plan to permit that myself.  I will never again subject a loved pet to that, nor to myself.

I expect to arrange things so that one evening, I go to sleep and never wake up.   I will not even know it happened.

[Baruch]

While people who are miserable have my sympathy ... if you are currently ambulatory, the idea that you can choose when to go ... is arrogant.  False sense of control over reality, a dictatorship of one.

[Cavebear]

First, life IS a "dictatorship of one".  Unless you think we are property of someone or some organization, we are in control of ourselves.  That is the very basis of our ability to think and act for ourselves. 

I declare that The State does not own us.  We collectively, own IT!  That is the basis of democracy.

I declare that my fellow citizens do not own me.  That is the refusal of slavery. I will not abide by even the suggestion.

I declare that my parents do not own me.  When I became an adult I went my way in life.  No adult is owned by another adult even if they created you biologically and raised you.

I declare that my created family, through marriage, partnership or cohabitation (if I had one such) do not own me.  I remain an individual in control of my life barring accident or mayhem.

I will take a line from 'Invictus' by William Ernest Henley.  I don't agree with all of it (not thanking "whatever gods may be').  But I do agree:

"I am the Master of my Fate,
I am the Captain of my Soul."

It isn't perfect, but it comes near enough in this religion-soaked language...

As I said, barring accidents and mayhem, *I* will decide when I leave this life and no one has the right to deny me that.

[Mike Cl]

While people who are miserable have my sympathy ... if you are currently ambulatory, the idea that you an choose when to go ... is arrogant.  False sense of control over reality, a dictatorship of one.

In that, Baruch, I think you are totally and completely wrong.  YOU are the arrogant one for suggesting what you did. 

[Cavebear]

In that, Baruch, I think you are totally and completely wrong.  YOU are the arrogant one for suggesting what you did.

My thoughts exactly. Just that I won't refer to "what's his name", LOL!...

[Baruch]

Well, you can both move to Oregon ... but do get counseling before you arrogantly off yourselves ... second opinions are wise.

[Baruch]

First, life IS a "dictatorship of one".  Unless you think we are property of someone or some organization, we are in control of ourselves.  That is the very basis of our ability to think and act for ourselves. 

I declare that The State does not own us.  We collectively, own IT!  That is the basis of democracy.

I declare that my fellow citizens do not own me.  That is the refusal of slavery. I will not abide by even the suggestion.

I declare that my parents do not own me.  When I became an adult I went my way in life.  No adult is owned by another adult even if they created you biologically and raised you.

I declare that my created family, through marriage, partnership or cohabitation (if I had one such) do not own me.  I remain an individual in control of my life barring accident or mayhem.

I will take a line from 'Invictus' by William Ernest Henley.  I don't agree with all of it (not thanking "whatever gods may be').  But I do agree:

"I am the Master of my Fate,
I am the Captain of my Soul."

It isn't perfect, but it comes near enough in this religion-soaked language...

As I said, barring accidents and mayhem, *I* will decide when I leave this life and no one has the right to deny me that.

Seems pretty mono-maniac to me.  Have you ever had mono ;-)

[Mike Cl]

Well, you can both move to Oregon ... but do get counseling before you arrogantly off yourselves ... second opinions are wise.

My mom died in Oregon.  She had ovarian cancer surgery in Portland.  And I was in the room when the Dr. gave his spiel about the assisted suicide that he is required to make.  So, I've actually heard it, Baruch.  She was cleared to be on the list--then the Dr. 'cautioned' her that since she was taking insulin to be very careful not to give herself a large overdose of it--that would be fatal.  Mom then halted the assisted suicide action; it is a bit complicated.  But she never was without a large supply of insulin.