Suffering as a virtue

[Baruch]

Well I think this is more of a failure of the English language because I think there is, secular, value in fasting, and doing some form of penance as well as meditation. For example, give twenty dollars to charity and then skip whatever outing or meal(s) that would have paid for while contemplating what more can be done besides giving money with the spare time. I also think that righting wrongs is important, and that is what penance ought to be. A petty example would be, say I go plant a few trees because I want to counter act my impact on pollution. Ultimately I can't have no carbon foot print but there is something in trying (and often failing) to help fix the problems I contribute to.
Meditation is just practical, pausing and reflecting, its calming and allows for perspective that can help with problem solving

Muslims agree with you (Zakat).  The religion founders didn't expect people to stop being human, just moderate some of our more ape like tendencies.  But I think the OP wasn't about voluntary penance, but involuntary tragedy.

[SGOS]

Well I think this is more of a failure of the English language because I think there is, secular, value in fasting, and doing some form of penance as well as meditation. For example, give twenty dollars to charity and then skip whatever outing or meal(s) that would have paid for while contemplating what more can be done besides giving money with the spare time. I also think that righting wrongs is important, and that is what penance ought to be. A petty example would be, say I go plant a few trees because I want to counter act my impact on pollution. Ultimately I can't have no carbon foot print but there is something in trying (and often failing) to help fix the problems I contribute to.
Meditation is just practical, pausing and reflecting, its calming and allows for perspective that can help with problem solving

These are acts of good intention, but I wouldn't describe them as suffering.

[Contemporary Protestant]

I agree

[Baruch]

Unfortunately righting wrongs, and worse yet preventing wrongs ... requires the death of the human race.  Creating wrongs is what we do (except for the self-righteous who deserve the lower depths of Tartarus ... Hades is too good for them).

[Contemporary Protestant]

Youre right, even from a simple perspective, reducing the carbon foot print, I can only do that by not reproducing and dying. I will never undo what Ive done but that doesnt mean I am going to stop recycling and go buy a gas guzzler.
I think there is some worth in effort

[Mr.Obvious]

Youre right, even from a simple perspective, reducing the carbon foot print, I can only do that by not reproducing and dying. I will never undo what Ive done but that doesnt mean I am going to stop recycling and go buy a gas guzzler.
I think there is some worth in effort

Sorry CP, I honestly don't dissagree with you.
But I'm just reminded of this, hearing you talk

https://youtu.be/vpOnqIuR5F4

[Baruch]

Youre right, even from a simple perspective, reducing the carbon foot print, I can only do that by not reproducing and dying. I will never undo what Ive done but that doesnt mean I am going to stop recycling and go buy a gas guzzler.
I think there is some worth in effort

Close only counts in hand grenades and nukes.  Effort that doesn't produce, is a wasted life.

[Cavebear]

Well I think this is more of a failure of the English language because I think there is, secular, value in fasting, and doing some form of penance as well as meditation. For example, give twenty dollars to charity and then skip whatever outing or meal(s) that would have paid for while contemplating what more can be done besides giving money with the spare time. I also think that righting wrongs is important, and that is what penance ought to be. A petty example would be, say I go plant a few trees because I want to counter act my impact on pollution. Ultimately I can't have no carbon foot print but there is something in trying (and often failing) to help fix the problems I contribute to.
Meditation is just practical, pausing and reflecting, its calming and allows for perspective that can help with problem solving

What cause makes you feel "penitent"?  Existence? Life?  Knowledge?

[AllPurposeAtheist]

I suppose that if Trumpster fire gets elected it's end times and we all get to go to heaven in a little row boat.
Look, there can be valuable lessons learned from suffering, but few people actually learn them . We've all heard the fables about the mothers who scrubbed floors so their kids could go to college and have a great life and in those scenarios the lesson is to let good old mom suffer so you get to live it up the rest of your life while good old mom dies with an arthritic back in a dingy flat while speaking broken English..

[Cavebear]

I suppose that if Trumpster fire gets elected it's end times and we all get to go to heaven in a little row boat.
Look, there can be valuable lessons learned from suffering, but few people actually learn them . We've all heard the fables about the mothers who scrubbed floors so their kids could go to college and have a great life and in those scenarios the lesson is to let good old mom suffer so you get to live it up the rest of your life while good old mom dies with an arthritic back in a dingy flat while speaking broken English..

I think sufferring is a bit over-rated.  We get one run through this world, and some are luckier than others. 

Yeah, my mom scrubbed floors.  In our house.  At around when I was 10, I did too.  We kids did a lot of work in the house.  It was a group effort as you got old enough to help.  And Dad taught us how to do basic fixes around the house.  We were expected to help and learn and it was a good lesson.  I know more about maintaining a house than most guys do Momwise and Dadwise. 

But it was never considering any sort of "moral sufferring".  It was just what was needed to keep the house working.  And good basic instruction for when we moved out on our own. 

Deliberate "moral sufferring" is just for those who think they are preparing themselves for some non-existent "after-life".

Learning to wash floors and replace light switches is just practical, not "moral".  And suffering deliberately is for fools.