Sam Harris

[GSOgymrat]

Conversation at work today

Me: OMG!

Coworker: What?

Me: My friend emailed and said he got us tickets to An Evening with Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris. I'm so excited!

Coworker: I love Sam Harris! I have all his stuff.

Me: Me too! I listen to him every week.

Coworker: So what kind of music does Richard Dawkins sing?

[drunkenshoe]

LOL Not that bad actually, evidently there is a singer called Sam Harris. And Dawkins is not really as famous as atheists would like to think, let alone Sam Harris.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Harris_(singer)

Samuel Kent "Sam" Harris (born June 4, 1961) is an American pop and theater musician as well as a television, theater and film actor.

[drunkenshoe]

I'll take Dawkins in a scientific one, but Harris?

You realise that Sam Harris actually obstinately defends the 'idea' that USA only makes foreign policy decisions in a bad way as a mistake since it always has "good intentions" and that 'the West is more morally wealthy' than the ME.

This man has no intellectual awareness of any political concept from the simplest idea of the state to the history of international policies of his own country. While this is perfectly OK for anyone, certainly not for anyone with a claim of status like his.

He has made a career, millions of dollars and fame out of criticising people's ideology for making claims about their beliefs, but all his premise about Islamic terrorism and intenational policies of USA -suppsedly against it- that it has pure good inention; and that actions of the 'sides' should be judged on their intentions, but not on recorded casualties or collateral damage, because that is just 'talk'. (Of course the base of this idea is the West is more morally wealthy, lol)

Have you ever heard a bigger or more pathetic strawman than this? What's more important have you ever heard a more religious in nature of statement than this? Policies defined as 'intentions' of states as if they are people and people vs policies and war? WTF?  This is literally equal to the slogan of 'Islam is a religion of peace'. It's just said by a white American man who defines himself openly as an atheist. (Bush's Crusade comments are more realistic and 'intelligent' than this considering its context and the person who said it and his position at the tme). 

And people celebrate and promote this man because he is an 'intellectual' of American atheism and he writes books and talks about how baaaaad is religion and beliefs. Da fuq?

What do you think this man can contribute to your opinions? Your intellectual life? What can this man offer to you that you cannot learn or think for yourselves...actually you already have? Nothing. I have met Americans who haven't left their country -probably even the state they live in their entire lives- grown up in a religous household with more intelligence and insight of world politics or just politics 101.

Any average college grad coming from secular upper middle class with good time of research and money in their hands in the USA can become a Sam Harris.  (Helps if you are white and male, yeah ugly truths 101) There is nothing special about this man. He is a global embarassment for American intellectualism. Writing books on why 'religion sucks' in the 20th century America does not make a stand to anyone who is not already aware of it and the rest is pretty much in the same league with him in a different way. (I am not even going to get into his so called criticism, also 'debate' with Chomsky. LOL Oy vey.)

Don't get me wrong, I understand the desire of seeing some 'opposition' on the stage that you agree on a main point and like to hear a celebrity in that context it is a building block of your culture. But specific to this man, it is celebrating mediocrity, promoting 'celebrity culture'; a stand up show designed for a specific audience.


This is the dumbing down of America we keep talking about.

[GSOgymrat]

Yes, I know Sam Harris is a singer. That's part of the joke.

I enjoy Sam Harris because I'm not as intelligent or worldly you are.

[drunkenshoe]

Yes, I know Sam Harris is a singer. That's part of the joke.

Oh I didn't get that. I just thought one just might know him, even if they are into the subject.

I enjoy Sam Harris because I'm not as intelligent or worldly you are.

You realise this kind of sarcasm is unnecessary here, right? I am criticising Harris and the culture that promoted him into what he is today. Not your intelligence.

I actually openly said that man cannot contribute to your intelligence -and people like you- and specifically pointed out there are people out there in America with a better insight on the subjects he keeps talking about, with no education or the circumstances he had.

[GSOgymrat]

Oh I didn't get that. I just thought one just might know him, even if they are into the subject.

You realise this kind of sarcasm is unnecessary here, right? I am criticising Harris and the culture that promoted him into what he is today. Not your intelligence.

I actually openly said that man cannot contribute to your intelligence -and people like you- and specifically pointed out there are people out there in America with a better insight on the subjects he keeps talking about, with no education or the circumstances he had.

I wasn't being sarcastic.

[drunkenshoe]

I wasn't being sarcastic.

I don't have superior intelligence, nor I am smarter than anyone. Reading Harris is enough. Also everyone can reach to Chomsky's works. It's about simple determination and willingness to learn about the accumulation of the knowledge of my species above my or any other culture. Scepticism, criticism. Simple rationality and reasoning. Which I can say almost everyone in this forum has to some degree.

So we disagree on a different level, but about the same thing, again connected to my main criticism of harmful traits of American culture; from cultural isolation to definition of intelligence and its promotion...etc. 

[FaithIsFilth]

I personally think it would be cool to go see Sam Harris, even though I disagree with him on so much. I disagree with everyone I listen to on a big chunk of stuff.

Shoe, I think so many Americans take Sam Harris' rhetoric about Western intervention seriously and agree with him, because of trauma and cognitive dissonance. 9/11 was such a traumatic event, and that trauma is still with many Americans. Most Americans have their comfortable world view, and they're not willing to even consider that their government is not the good guys, but is actually no better than "the enemy". They're not even willing to consider that, just like most theists aren't even willing to consider that maybe there is no god, and maybe when you die that's the end. They won't consider it, because their comfortable world view would be shattered to pieces. The reality (which you and I are living in) where the US is no more moral than their enemies, is not an acceptable reality or one that they would be comfortable living in, so they simply dismiss anyone making the case that the US really isn't the good guy, just like theists dismiss any argument claiming that their religion is false, not because the argument doesn't make sense, but because a reality without god in it is just not acceptable to them. They don't want to be made uncomfortable. I used to be one of those people going on and on about Islam. I used to get pretty emotional about 9/11. People like you helped me change my way of thinking here, so I thank you for that.

[drunkenshoe]

That's quite a compliment. You are welcome. The problem is taking sides above religions, not specific to one religion or culture people didn't know a decade ago, but developed as a result of some imposed series of policies. My aspect has nothing to do with where I was born, but rather with that culture not having the 'luxury' of getting by just knowing and promoting itself. So my critcism is not from the aspect of one specific religion, but self awareness.

I agree with you and I think that goes for all human cultures more or less. The big differences are that US is culturally isolated and the scale is so big so the consequences for everyone, including Americans. But in my personal opinion what you describe up there has also started to change in the US. I even saw it happening in the forum in a way. May be it is just time, may be it is running its course. But in any case, self-awareness has many different levels and it is hard thing to come by. For all of us. It needs effort and if there is no reward -at least not in this case- people don't want to get out from their comfort zones. So if you think a government or a state -any of them for that matter- doing 'something good' for anyone, congratulations you have a religion. It is pretty much like being a believer. Actually you are religious and your religion is nationalism.

Nationalism is the religion of the modern state. It's not some natural continuance of tribalism contrary to the common belief. It's just roughly a little more than 200 years old. There is no benefit in it for any people. For us. The people. Not one. It's a delusion. Esp. in today's world, its international relations, economy, militray and intelligence tech., the scale of mass media, the constantly growing demography the sense of security it provides is more fake than it was considering the tribalism based nationalism 500 years ago.

We are actually living in a very young system, but most people think and act like this has existed for millions of years and have the fear of it is their day everything will go real bad for them and this fear is constantly encouraged, though it is already in our nature because it serves as a leash. Exactly like what people have believed in every 'period' of time after establishing some sort of order for many different reasons. The collective fear of today is the same with what it was 500 years ago or 1000 years ago or 5000 years ago...etc. LOL It is entertaining in a dark, misanthropic way.

[Nonsensei]

I got concerned for you that you were mentioning your atheism at work.

Then I wanted to have you tell us how Dawkins was.

Then I realized this is in the joke section.

It's 5am and I'm not asleep.

[GSOgymrat]

A good sign a joke has failed is when it must be explained. The conversation happened at work shortly before I posted it. I work at a hospital and no one is going to be shocked that I'm going to see Richard Dawkins, even if he wasn't on Star Search. North Carolina is not quite Saudi Arabia. Even if someone were uncomfortable that I'm an atheist saying I'm going to see Dawkins and Harris is no different than someone saying they need to leave early so they can make it to church. Anyway, the tickets are for November 1 in Glendale, California.

I certainly blew this humorous little anecdote.

[SGOS]

Anyway, the tickets are for November 1 in Glendale, California.

That's a long trip from NC.  Hope you've got something else on the agenda.

[GSOgymrat]

That's a long trip from NC.  Hope you've got something else on the agenda.

I go to Los Angeles each year for the West Hollywood Halloween festival, so we will be up until 3 am the night before. My best friend lives in L.A. and he always plans a scenic hike, a new restaurant and some other event like a lecture or art exhibit.

[Hydra009]

North Carolina is quite Saudi Arabia.

It's not *that* bad.  The Triangle is particular is actually pretty good.  But yeah, in NC, atheist is still a dirty word.

[GSOgymrat]

It's not *that* bad.  The Triangle is particular is actually pretty good.  But yeah, in NC, atheist is still a dirty word.

Whoops! Left out the "not". I'll fix it.

There are a lot of religious people where I live. I know I won't lose my job because I work at a hospital where diversity is taken seriously.