White America, What Type of Protest Do You Approve Of?

[Mermaid]

[/quote]

This is my favorite response to the Colin Kaepernick protest. She's like an angry, conservative chihuahua!

https://youtu.be/qq0_nyWVXCI

Oh, white girl, you know it all.

[Solomon Zorn]

I disagree with the choice not to stand for the anthem, but I much more strongly agree with his right, to decline to stand for an idea that bothers his conscience. I might behave similarly toward the Pledge of Allegiance.

There is a group of soldiers, one of which they interviewed, who are voicing their support for his right as well.

I don't think that the tone of the thread is productive. If you get your picture of "white America" from the assholes only, then you're just committing the same fallacy that you so despise when whites do it to other races.

To win this argument, you have to rise above the practice of prejudicing the issue, and making blanket generalizations. I am one of many white Americans, who don't fit the mold, that you are portraying as typical "white America."

[Mike Cl]

The problem is that he doesn't just represent himself. He is representing the organization who pays him millions of dollars. If he wanted to go out a martyr, good for him. If he didn't, then he was wrong for putting the organization in this position and he deserves to be let go. I'd feel the same way if he were an atheist refusing to stand for the anthem until god was removed from it, or if he were continuously going on about how religious people are so delusional and stupid. It doesn't matter how right he is. He is representing the organization.

Maybe he is representing the organization (49'ers), but he is not breaking any clause of his contract.  Nor is he breaking any rules of the NFL. The NFL encourages the players to stand, but does not make it a rule.  As for an atheist not standing for the anthem--why does the atheist--or anybody else--have to stand for the anthem or saluting the flag?  Is this 'thought control' USA?  Did not generations of people die to preserve just those rights?  I realize that many people feel we should have those rights, but refuse to use them because it's not right--which really is a slap in the face of all of those who have died for those rights. 

[Nonsensei]

Maybe he is representing the organization (49'ers), but he is not breaking any clause of his contract.

How do you know this?

[FaithIsFilth]

Maybe he is representing the organization (49'ers), but he is not breaking any clause of his contract.

Doesn't matter. They can just release him and say it was because he wasn't a good enough player. What about the pig police socks? That was very inappropriate for someone representing a billion dollar organization. Personally, I think it's dumb to even have the national anthem played at sporting events at all, and I choose not to stand myself when I'm at a sporting event, so I certainly can understand someone not wanting to stand for the anthem, but then again, I'm not making millions of dollars to play a game. Not standing for the anthem is something people are really touchy about, and that's the case in pretty much every country in the world. That's just the way things are, so Colin is putting his team in a tough position. Of course he has the right not to stand, but the team also has the right to decide whether they want him on the team representing them or not. If an atheist player wanted to become the next Christopher Hitchens, I'd tell him to wait until his playing career was over, because you can't be insulting the majority of the fan base. You have the right to insult the majority of the fan base, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

[Mike Cl]

How do you know this?

I guess I am making a tiny assumption.  I have not read his contract.  But I am fully aware that the front office is not a Kap fan.  If they could cut him, they would.  But they have a 12 million investment and cannot afford to just cut him.  And so far there have been no takers for a trade.  I've listened to several talk radio programs and read quite a bit about the Kap situation--I live deep in the 49'er area of fandom, so info is fairly easy to come by.  The 9'rs have not been Kap fans for the last couple of years.  And I'm not really a Kap fan, either, at least not his play style or ability. 

[GSOgymrat]

Doesn't matter. They can just release him and say it was because he wasn't a good enough player. What about the pig police socks? That was very inappropriate for someone representing a billion dollar organization. Personally, I think it's dumb to even have the national anthem played at sporting events at all, and I choose not to stand myself when I'm at a sporting event, so I certainly can understand someone not wanting to stand for the anthem, but then again, I'm not making millions of dollars to play a game. Not standing for the anthem is something people are really touchy about, and that's the case in pretty much every country in the world. That's just the way things are, so Colin is putting his team in a tough position. Of course he has the right not to stand, but the team also has the right to decide whether they want him on the team representing them or not. If an atheist player wanted to become the next Christopher Hitchens, I'd tell him to wait until his playing career was over, because you can't be insulting the majority of the fan base. You have the right to insult the majority of the fan base, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

Do you see any comparison between the controversies of Colin Kaepernick and Tim Tebow?

[Shiranu]

Do you see any comparison between the controversies of Colin Kaepernick and Tim Tebow?

From my perspective, no.

One is protesting objectively provable injustice that is not socially accepted to address. The other is just affirming that he holds the same beliefs as everyone else does.

[GSOgymrat]

From my perspective, no.

One is protesting objectively provable injustice that is not socially accepted to address. The other is just affirming that he holds the same beliefs as everyone else does.

In one respect they are different but I don't think Tebow was simply affirming he holds the same beliefs, otherwise there would have been no controversy. I think Kaepernick and Tebow both used their football celebrity to promote their own moral agendas, promoting civil rights and evangelizing Christianity, and ended up agitating people who don't share their agendas.

[Shiranu]

In one respect they are different but I don't think Tebow was simply affirming he holds the same beliefs, otherwise there would have been no controversy. I think Kaepernick and Tebow both used their football celebrity to promote their own moral agendas, promoting civil rights and evangelizing Christianity, and ended up agitating people who don't share their agendas.

I think agitating people who disagree with civil rights is a civil duty... and civil duty should come before corporate obligations. If you have social power, it is your moral obligation to use it for the betterment of society.

On an unrelated note...

[GSOgymrat]

"I think agitating people who disagree with Christianity is a religious duty... and religious duty should come before corporate obligations. If you have social power, it is your moral obligation to use it for the betterment of society."

Same idea, different moral values.

[Shiranu]

"I think agitating people who disagree with Christianity is a religious duty... and religious duty should come before corporate obligations. If you have social power, it is your moral obligation to use it for the betterment of society."

Same idea, different moral values.

The difference being that those moral values are of one branch of a branch of a branch of a tree that no one on the tree can agree on, whereas social equality should (ideally) be something everyone get's behind.

And that said, I don't particularly have a problem with Tebow, Jeremy Lin, etc. using their social standing to share their faith; if they want's to do that, more power to them. So I don't say this out of dislike for the guy or anything like that. Do I find it obnoxious? Certainly, but that's okay. I just don't particularly see social obligation as a like for like with religious obligation, as social obligation includes everyone and not just people who agree with you.

If you are promoting peace, tolerance and equality for everyone, regardless of what faith, colour, gender, orientation, whatever... then your opinion is, at least morally, more important than what ever contractual agreement you have. It's like criticizing conscientious objector. Sure, they signed a contract... but doing what is right is more important than a piece of paper and a hurt businessman's ego or paycheck that, in 1 years, he will have completely have forgotten about.


Corporations can make more money like it is nothing, especially the NFL. African Americans can't get back the time they spent being treated like shit.

[Baruch]

Ave Romani!  Penem et circenses?  Of course professional sports is all about patriotism.  Professional sports is ludi-crous ... because the Latin word for games ... is ludi.  The Romans had them as often as possible ... and had side bets on the outcome of the chariot races and the gladiatorial games.  The American football players should go to the representative Presidential box, and salute ... we who are about to receive and inflict concussions ... salute you!

[FaithIsFilth]

Do you see any comparison between the controversies of Colin Kaepernick and Tim Tebow?

No, not really. I don't watch the NFL, but if I remember right, Tebow talks about God alot and likes to kneel and pray after or before games? The only pro league I watch is the NBA, and Kevin Durant is always talking about God and thanking God. Do I find it to be annoying? Yes I do. I don't think it's much of an issue though.

Personally, if I was on a multi-billion dollar team and wanted to do a protest, I'd ask for the team's permission. If they didn't want me to do it, I would respect that because they're paying my salary. Colin says that he's willing to risk his job and endorsements though, so I applaud him for his courage. I just found out that other players are starting to join him and not stand either, so maybe Colin will end up surviving this afterall.

[trdsf]

What kind of protest does this white American approve of?  Virtually any that's non-violent.  And depending on the circumstances, I reserve the right to non-violently counter-protest.