Trump's Wall Between Mexico and the US

[SGOS]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/30/politics/donald-trump-enrique-pea-nieto-mexico/

The wall has been mentioned here and in the media before, but it's usually discussed as a symbol of Trump bigotry.  Even those who would keep the Mexicans out because, well... they're Mexicans must also see the wall as a symbol, albeit a symbol of tightened security.  But there is a component of the issue which has bothered me even more than the issues of bigotry, security, and racism.  It's the shear idiocy of building a wall, and then expecting Mexico to pay for it.  Why the Hell would Mexico want to pay for a US project that is contrary to the interests of Mexico?  Mexico has no interest in restricting the flow of it's citizens into the US, or for that matter, restricting the flow of Americans into Mexico. 

Finally, the president of Mexico has addressed the issue, by telling Trump to "fuck off."  Well, he was more polite than that.  He was even polite enough to avoid the issue of the idiocy of the physical project itself.  Just like the media and this forum, he didn't mention it.  He just said, "No, we aren't going pay for the wall."

Trump denies that was ever said.  The Mexican President refutes that, and says he told Trump that Mexico wouldn't pay anything for the wall in no uncertain terms.  And the issue of the impractical nonsense of the wall is still left unaddressed.  China has a great wall, originally designed to keep out barbaric hoards, but now the wall is a curiosity that harkens back to a time before some enterprising barbarian got the bright idea to invent the ladder.  I propose we can focus on the issue of feasibility of the wall, lest people think it might actually be a good idea that might achieve its purpose.

[widdershins]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/30/politics/donald-trump-enrique-pea-nieto-mexico/
Why the Hell would Mexico want to pay for a US project that is contrary to the interests of Mexico?

But is it really contrary to the interests of Mexico.  Say you're Mexico and Trump gets elected.  Wouldn't your first interaction with the new American president be, "So, about that wall..." as you were reaching for your wallet?  Hell, if I had the money I think I'd move to Mexico and pay for the fucking wall myself!

[SGOS]

But is it really contrary to the interests of Mexico.  Say you're Mexico and Trump gets elected.  Wouldn't your first interaction with the new American president be, "So, about that wall..." as you were reaching for your wallet?  Hell, if I had the money I think I'd move to Mexico and pay for the fucking wall myself!

I may have exaggerated my point with the phrase "contrary to Mexico's interests."  In truth, it may be more irrelevant to Mexico's interests than contrary.  But I'm sure Trump would welcome your contribution for his wall, just like he was happy to have local governments help foot the bill to pay for his casinos.  Trump likes the idea of other people paying for his projects.  In fact, he has a great record for making this happen, and by now he probably expects others to pay for all of his projects.  It's a way of reducing his own risk when this projects flop because they were bad ideas to begin with.  It's a great way to do business.

[GSOgymrat]

In my opinion The Wall is more a symbol than a practical solution. Want to keep illegal immigrants from coming to the US? Go after Americans who employ illegal immigrants. Create a national database of US citizens and require by federal law that all employees be verified. The system would record that employers checked for citizenship, eliminating any need for employees to have ID cards, which could be forged. For individuals and businesses employing fewer than twenty people enact a mandatory $10,000 fine. For employers over twenty enact a $50,000 and jail time for the HR representative. Encourage citizens to report employers who violate the law and strengthen whistle-blower laws. Enforce that policy and the incentive for most people to dodge the immigration system is removed. This solution doesn't discriminate against any race, country or religion and would be much cheaper than any physical barrier or ocean or air patrol.

[widdershins]

I may have exaggerated my point with the phrase "contrary to Mexico's interests."  In truth, it may be more irrelevant to Mexico's interests than contrary.  But I'm sure Trump would welcome your contribution for his wall, just like he was happy to have local governments help foot the bill to pay for his casinos.  Trump likes the idea of other people paying for his projects.  In fact, he has a great record for making this happen, and by now he probably expects others to pay for all of his projects.  It's a way of reducing his own risk when this projects flop because they were bad ideas to begin with.  It's a great way to do business.

To clarify, that was a joke about Mexico wanting the wall to keep Trump out of Mexico if he got elected.

[SGOS]

To clarify, that was a joke about Mexico wanting the wall to keep Trump out of Mexico if he got elected.

I got it.  I just used your response to further my own rant about Trump because I wasn't quite finished.

[Hydra009]

The wall has been mentioned here and in the media before, but it's usually discussed as a symbol of Trump bigotry.  Even those who would keep the Mexicans out because, well... they're Mexicans must also see the wall as a symbol, albeit a symbol of tightened security.  But there is a component of the issue which has bothered me even more than the issues of bigotry, security, and racism.  It's the shear idiocy of building a wall, and then expecting Mexico to pay for it.  Why the Hell would Mexico want to pay for a US project that is contrary to the interests of Mexico?  Mexico has no interest in restricting the flow of it's citizens into the US, or for that matter, restricting the flow of Americans into Mexico.

Mexico wouldn't and won't.  Trump proposed paying for it by blocking a portion of money transfers sent from the US to Mexico.  Enacting such a proposal would adversely affect legal immigrants and routine US-Mexico corporate transactions.  But hey, can't break a few illegal eggs without blowing up a supermarket, or something along those lines.

And the issue of the impractical nonsense of the wall is still left unaddressed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0vPNOk9_2c

TL;DW: it wouldn't work.  Besides, Florida gets plenty of illegal immigrants and a border fence with Mexico doesn't change that.

China has a great wall, originally designed to keep out barbaric hoards, but now the wall is a curiosity that harkens back to a time before some enterprising barbarian got the bright idea to invent the ladder.

The effectiveness of the Great Wall of China is sometimes a little bit overstated.  Yes, it minimized cavalry raids.  But it wasn't impregnable.  And the Ming dynasty suffered from rebellions and military defections which made the existence of the wall irrelevant.

The Roman Empire went on its own wall-building spree.  Hadrian's Wall is a famous example.  As Roman power ebbed and its garrison made haste to Gaul to defend against a barbarian incursion there, the wall simply became a part of various new british kingdoms.

Bottom line, walls are rarely a good temporary solution and they're never a good permanent solution.

[SGOS]

John Oliver beat me to it.  I thought I was bringing up something that had escaped the public view.  But at least I feel vindicated by that video.

[Mr. Pibb]

Mexico wouldn't and won't.  Trump proposed paying for it by blocking a portion of money transfers sent from the US to Mexico.  Enacting such a proposal would adversely affect legal immigrants and routine US-Mexico corporate transactions.  But hey, can't break a few illegal eggs without blowing up a supermarket, or something along those lines.

Not to mention the banks and companies like Western Union that charge fees off of those transactions.

[widdershins]

I got it.  I just used your response to further my own rant about Trump because I wasn't quite finished.

Hey, as long as you didn't think I was promoting Trump's...um...just about everything bad a person can be, I guess, then I'm good.  And it was a good rant, too.

[Baruch]

The same moneybags pay for the Ds as for the Rs.  The idea of a security wall has been proposed, and even attempted, in previous administrations.  My how short the memory is!  Nobody is going to ship any large quantity of cheap workers back to Latin America.  It is a dog whistle for the usual idiots.

Previous security walls were boondoggles that put money in certain people's pockets.  There is no difference in corruption between the US and Mexico, and not because of Mexican immigrants ... the Anglos are Hell spawn too.

[FaithIsFilth]

But there is a component of the issue which has bothered me even more than the issues of bigotry, security, and racism.  It's the shear idiocy of building a wall, and then expecting Mexico to pay for it.

Who expects Mexico to pay for it? Certainly not Trump. He also said he would get 95 percent of the black vote. As a rule, you should assume that 95 percent of what comes out of Trump and Clinton's mouths is pure BS to get votes.

[DeltaEpsilon]

Mother, do you think they'll drop the bomb?
Mother, do you think they'll like this song?
Mother, do you think they'll try to break my balls?
Ooh, aah, mother, should I build the wall?