News:

Welcome to our site!

Main Menu

Game of Thrones

Started by stromboli, June 03, 2013, 11:22:51 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Mr.Obvious

#316
I've been watching a lot of GOT-content on youtube: mostly the most kick-ass scenes of the prior seasons and a bunch of theory videos. All to get the hype up for the 24th.
While necessarily most of the theories I come across must logically be wrong, seeing as they go against one another, it truly is humiliating; showing me how little I picked up from the books and such.
A great deal of these theories seem to be about Azor Ahai. By the way. Who is (s)he? Who'll be the savior(s) of Westeros, proclaimed in all legend.
And that's fine, wondering all that and such... But I've also been thinking about it from another side. One I haven't seen mentioned yet. But I'm sure it's out there already as I'm not half-clever or -original enough to be the first to have thought it. As well as I'm gonna go out and say, like most theories out there, it's probably not true, but, for a lark, here goes:

Azor Ahai is [spoiler] Nobody

Freaking nobody.

This isn't The Lion, the witch and the bloody wardrobe. This isn't Lord of the freaking rings. This isn't Harry fucking Potter. This, mate, is A song of Ice and Fire. And it's miserably cruel world. Would it really be a surprise if the messiaen saviour didn't arrive? If this story ended in blood, and death and cold winter, would it really be a shocker? G.R.R. Martin goes out of his way to avoid cliché fantasy-tropes. The honoroble die. The honest die. The righteous die. Great houses lose everything. The bulk of the knights out there are right-rotten bastards. Kings butcher their own children in the (false) name of righteousnous. Nobody saves the fair maiden, they pawn her off and use her as leverage and marry her off to cruel joke after cruel joke. This bastard of an author whom we all can't help but love for hurting us, seriously it's like an abusive relationship at this point, does everything he can to show us glimmers of beauty and hope, just to take it away from us. I mean, we're all bloody masochists here. Haven't you noticed it gets increasingly hard to get us to believe this lie of 'everything'll turn out fine', but somehow these lies were us down, just so that when the bud of hope springs, it can be stamped down back into the ground? This is the freaking equivalent of someone offering a man dying of dehydration a cannister of water and pulling it away each time the man reaches for it. After a while, the man will stop trying, and the cruel bastard will say, 'okay fine, it's been fun but here you go, no seriously, come on now'. And then the poor sod reaches, after minutes of coaxing, and the bugger still pulls it away: again.

So that's the first reason. Second one is, right, that if you are going to go into the whole 'prophecy' thing: Azor Ahai is said to save the world from the long night. Well, with all due respect to the suffering wildlings... It hasn't been that long of a night for anyone south of the wall, now has it? The long night, that's like, a hundred years of winter and darkness that is. I mean sure, the people of Westeros are fucked, what with the war of the five kings killing all crops before Winter finaly came, thank you Starks for reminding us thank you very much. But it's been like a few months of winter. Heck, anywere south of Winterfell, it doesn't even seem like Winter fell. I get it's still going to be a few years in the world of Game of Thrones before all is resolved, don't get me wrong, but even then it's going to have been winter for what: three years? With the world's last summer lasting well over a decade; the long night don't look that long now do it?
So for all the likelihood of us getting Azor Ahai reïncarnated or whatever; could just as well be that darkness takes over the world for decades on end and we don't get to see Azor Ahai knock back the darkness and the White Walkers, even if the prophecy comes true. Could be (s)he's born three generations from now, couldn't it?

Again, could be way off base here; probably am. But with all the Azor Ahai predictions out there: wanted to get this option of my chest. And to be honest, it's the best headcanon to adhere to until the story reaches it's conclusion. This way you can only be more thrilled with the real ending when it finally arrives and it turns out Azor Ahai is actually Hodor or something, and if it does turn out to be true at least you won't feel crippling sadness wash over you and you'll have out foxed that abusive yet loveably addictive G.R.R Martin at the very least. [/spoiler]
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, last night, requesting 69.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

josephpalazzo

Rumor is: Jon Snow will be resurrected by the Red Woman.

Hydra009

#318
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on April 10, 2016, 04:59:01 PMA great deal of these theories seem to be about Azor Ahai. By the way. Who is (s)he? Who'll be the savior(s) of Westeros, proclaimed in all legend.
And that's fine, wondering all that and such... But I've also been thinking about it from another side. One I haven't seen mentioned yet. But I'm sure it's out there already as I'm not half-clever or -original enough to be the first to have thought it. As well as I'm gonna go out and say, like most theories out there, it's probably not true, but, for a lark, here goes:

Azor Ahai is [spoiler] Nobody

Freaking nobody.

This isn't The Lion, the witch and the bloody wardrobe. This isn't Lord of the freaking rings. This isn't Harry fucking Potter. This, mate, is A song of Ice and Fire. And it's miserably cruel world.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]I've heard almost that same claim from Preston Jacobs.  I recommend his video series if you haven't seen it already.  Preston's take is that the prophecy is a lie and the series doesn't end with a hero ruling as a king over a new age.

Three possibilities:

1) One of the players of the Game of Thrones is victorious.

Personally, I'm banking on a marriage between Jon and Daenerys.  A marriage between Ice and Fire.  One or both of them is the chosen one.  They claim the Iron Throne and usher in a new dynasty.  I deeply want this to be true, but this is almost certainly not what's going to happen.

2) An outside faction is victorious.

Maybe the Others steamroll Westeros and the Long Night is endless.  Or maybe the Children of the Forest - thanks to Bran - amp up their weirwood net to psychically dominate all humans.  I'd bet good money on some outside faction winning instead of the feuding Houses.

3) No one wins.

The conflict destroys the world.  Or maybe some sort of peace is brokered (perhaps as a result of worldwide blended consciousness).  Unlikely, but a possibility.[/spoiler]

josephpalazzo

Quote from: Hydra009 on April 10, 2016, 06:28:39 PM
[spoiler]
Personally, I'm banking on a marriage between Jon and Daenerys.  A marriage between Ice and Fire.  One or both of them is the chosen one.  They claim the Iron Throne and usher in a new dynasty.  I deeply want this to be true, but this is almost certainly not what's going to happen.

[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Isn't there a rumor that Jon could be a Targaryen, the R + L = J  theory and possibly he's related to Daenerys?[/spoiler]

Mr.Obvious

Quote from: josephpalazzo on April 11, 2016, 01:33:53 PM
[spoiler]Isn't there a rumor that Jon could be a Targaryen, the R + L = J  theory and possibly he's related to Daenerys?[/spoiler]


[spoiler]And when has that ever stopped anyone in ASOIAF?
Especially Targaryens?

P.S. @Hydra; Hadn't seen his vids yet. Have now. I feel like all I've ever known is thrown upside down. [/spoiler]
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, last night, requesting 69.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

Hydra009

#321
Quote from: josephpalazzo on April 11, 2016, 01:33:53 PM
[spoiler]Isn't there a rumor that Jon could be a Targaryen, the R + L = J  theory and possibly he's related to Daenerys?[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Yes.  The main alternative is that Jon's mother is Ashara Dayne.  I wouldn't wager a halfpenny on any the rest of them being true.  Personally, I'm in favor of R + L = J.  There's an obvious reason why so much ink is put towards Jon's parentage in the books - it'd have to be significant for the plot.  Given that the story increasingly revolves around the Targaryens, I'd wager fat Walda's weight in gold dragons that Jon is of royal descent.

My predictions for Jon:
1) raised from dead by Melisandre (born of salt and smoke)
2) the Night's Watch (and possibly much of the Bolton forces) are destroyed by White Walkers
3) Jon leads a coalition (an army of wildlings, former Night's Watchmen, remaining Stannis loyalists, and other northerners, especially House Manderly) against the White Walkers and possibly the remaining Bolton forces.
4) Jon wins the war for the War for the Dawn as Daenerys wins the War for the Throne.

Like I said, I doubt there'll be such a feel-good ending, and ultimately some other non-House faction will win, but I do think that Daenerys will claim the throne, just not keep it.[/spoiler]

Hydra009

#322
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on April 11, 2016, 02:19:15 PM[spoiler]P.S. @Hydra; Hadn't seen his vids yet. Have now. I feel like all I've ever known is thrown upside down. [/spoiler]
Glad you enjoyed them.  Though be cautious with Preston Jacobs.  Although he goes to great lengths to back up what he's saying, he has a tendency to string together a lot of seemingly unrelated facts into a narrative that superficially seems rational.  I personally think he's overthinking it by far (if half of his theories are true, GRRM is an unbelievably clever and detail-oriented writer), but his videos never cease to entertain and intrigue me.  Just don't have such an open mind that your brains fall out.

The one video I completely agree with him on is the [spoiler]pink letter mystery.  It was authored by Mance Rayder, not Ramsay Bolton.[/spoiler]

Mr.Obvious

#323
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 11, 2016, 02:38:33 PM
Glad you enjoyed them.  Though be cautious with Preston Jacobs.  Although he goes to great lengths to back up what he's saying, he has a tendency to string together a lot of seemingly unrelated facts into a narrative that superficially seems rational.  I personally think he's overthinking it by far (if half of his theories are true, GRRM is a ludicrously clever and detail-oriented writer), but his videos never cease to entertain and intrigue.  Just don't have such an open mind that your brains fall out.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Yeah, well I'm not saying I'm convinced this is one of his a 1000 worlds stories just yet. Also, there are some things that happen that don't seem explainable by Teke or telepathy to me. (Lady Stoneheart being one of them. And the existence of dragons, which are, I believe,  just fundamentally impossible creatures. As well as that i think the reason magic resurges in the world of Westeros is because Dragons return, not the comet. And some other stuff.)
But his video-series did show me, even though I haven't read any of GRR Martin's other works, that there are some returning themes in his books. And the (possible) concept of the children of the forest being a hive-mind hadn't really seeped in before this. Nor of them being 'against' humanity at this point. Though I really could see that right now. It's mostly stuff like that that 'shook me up'.
[/spoiler]

But all in all: a most enjoyable view.
Let me thank you with a vid I found that I find most interesting, which you may not have seen yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbZkUo8VIh4
P.S. I'll check that out, because my money on the author is currently: [spoiler]I don't have a damn clue!

Could be Melissandre. Could be Stannis, though unlikely. Could be the king beyond the wall. I simply cannot say!

(Though probably not Ramsey, aye.)
[/spoiler]
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, last night, requesting 69.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

Hydra009

Quote from: Mr.Obvious on April 11, 2016, 02:55:22 PM
[spoiler]Yeah, well I'm not saying I'm convinced this is one of his a 1000 worlds stories just yet.
It's not part of the 1000 worlds.  GRRM said so himself.  Therefore, Preston's probably barking up the wrong tree by interpreting asoiaf through the lens of the other books.  However, you're right about recurring themes.  A couple non-asoiaf characters even have the same names.  It wouldn't be much of a shock for similar events to happen...

About the video:
[spoiler]I personally don't see the connection between the Starks and the Seven.  Though the Father, Mother, Maiden, and Warrior are well represented, the Crone and Stranger are real stretches, and there's no actual contender for Smith.  This theory isn't true, imo.[/spoiler]

Mr.Obvious

Quote from: Hydra009 on April 11, 2016, 03:36:32 PM
About the video:
[spoiler]I personally don't see the connection between the Starks and the Seven.  Though the Father, Mother, Maiden, and Warrior are well represented, the Crone and Stranger are real stretches, and there's no actual contender for Smith.  This theory isn't true, imo.[/spoiler]

[spoiler] I dunno. Smith is weak as shit right now, fully agreed. Though (Stranger isn't all that weak to me, nor is Crone imho.) And she got Jon wrong; he wouldn't fit in at all. But then again there are (at least) two more books.
Though I think it wouldn't be written as them really being the seven, or anything like that. If it were intentional or something, I don't think it would be anything more than a 'novelty' or whatever the word is. Not that it's supposed to really mean anything, just a cool parallell.
Anyways, dude makes a solid case for Mance writing the pink letter. Just one thing, tbh, I always concidered 'waking giants' to be a metaphore for earthquakes. Never really looked deeper into it.[/spoiler]
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, last night, requesting 69.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

Hydra009

#326
Tonight's the night!  Woo!

Here's a recap of previous seasons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGFEPeIxPaw

Hydra009

#327
I'm curious about what you guys thought of Season 6 Episode 1.  I read that this premiere got less viewers than the season 5 premiere.  I guess people are still upset about Dorne.  Not me, though.  *bites lip*

Like most of the premieres, we get some recap, some exposition, check in with our characters, and not much really happens.  This one was slightly different.  Definitely a dismal, defeatist tone, though.  I feel like if this episode were a person, it'd be really into emo.

[spoiler]The Wall was a bit odd.  Brutus and co just skiddatle and leave the body there.  Kind of an odd thing to do seeing as whoever finds him will know it was murder and go straight to his fellow watchmen about mutinous bastards not terribly unlike the ones they recently put down at Craster's Keep.  Ghost howls.  Is Jon warging him?  (In the books, wargs can posthumously inhabit a nearby animal, but their spirit is overtaken by the animal over time)  Davos gives a lingering look at the blood.  Interesting.

Allister Thorne's little speech at the hall was really poor.  He's lucky to be alive.

Watchmen:  "The Lord Commander's dead!"
Thorne:  "I know, I killed him."
Watchmen:  "Murderer!  Traitor!"
Thorne:  "We've committed treason.  Loyalty is the foundation of the Night's Watch."
Watchmen:  "That's a good point.  Well, off to the chopping block."

Also, he let in the wildlings, too.  Too late to object now.

So, who gets the post now?  I'd imagine there aren't many who'd want it given what happened to the last guy.  That sort of thing sets a bad precedent, imho.

I liked the Bolton Bastard's touching reminisce about Myranda.  A lot of people objected to the "feed her to the dogs" part but I thought it was actually pretty thoughtful.  Morbid, but thoughtful.  She loved dogs.  And food, especially meat, is getting pretty scarce in the North.  The dogs probably don't get much to eat.  Using her body to sustain the animals she cares about isn't all that bad, given the circumstances.

Speaking of dogs, Theon and Sansa are pursued by dogs that magically disappeared during the fight.  Also, apparently one of the Bolton footmen is unaccounted for.  There were 4 horsemen and 2 footmen.  5 Bolton soldiers died in the battle.  Either it's a production slip up or one of them escaped.

Also, Stannis is almost certainly dead.  Totally called it.  "But he wasn't killed onscreen."  True, but you can die offscreen, too.

Jaime's speech was bit odd.  "Everything they've taken from us, we'll take back and more!"  Sound good, but what exactly do you have in mind?  They took Joffrey and Myrcella's lives.  You can't take that back.  I guess he means the throne, which is currently infringed by the Sparrows.  But at this point, I'd let em have it and go back to Casterly Rock where you're safe and your rule is unchallenged.  Right, Lysa Tully?  *kicks body*  I said right?  *kicks harder*

And here's a pointless scene with Margery.  Don't blink or you'll miss it.

Dorne.  I was not prepared.  I was not prepared for the utter disappointment that was Dorne and the complete waste of Alexander Siddig.  He could've been Señor Littlefinger.  Now he's just that guy who sat and wasted airtime and got an insulting death.

Words can't express my deep dislike for this scene.  For all you people who haven't read the books, I feel bad for you.  Because the Dornish plotline in the books is way better.  Areo Hotah goes down like a chump, Doran Martell goes down.  So goddamn wrong.  It'd be like assassinating the president and his Secret Service agent by walking up to them with a switchblade.  Not gonna happen.  Tristane's scene is almost as bad.  It's weird how the sand snakes even got there, but whatever.  They're on his boat, he whips out a sword, and she wants to 1v1 with a whip in close quarters against a swordsman.  I'm no expert on whips, but I'm pretty sure that's a bad idea.  I would've loved to watch that duel play out.  I feel like writers more or less stopped giving a shit about the Dorne subplot and just wanted it finished, which is a real shame because the Dornish master plan was such an awesome reveal in the books.  You guys are really missing out.

I liked Varys and Tyrion's scene.  Witty banter, but they're not exactly blending in.  And that bilingual graffiti didn't make a whole lot of sense.  Pick one language or the other, dammit.  Also, the fleet is burning.  I honestly didn't even remember they had a fleet.  Oh well.

I really like Dany's scene.  Nice to see her have to deal with people without threatening them with dragons or tossing her 30 titles at them.  Seeing her off her pedestal almost makes her relatable.  Also, the Dothraki are a great source of humor!

Blind Arya was good, but wtf was up with them sparring in public?  I guess no one really gives a shit in the slums, but it still seems like a great way to draw attention to yourself, which probably isn't the best idea for a spy.  What happens in the temple of Black and White stays in the temple of Black and White, you know?

And finally, the eponymous Red Woman.  Not my proudest fap.  :P

All in all, this premier was resoundingly okay.  I really hope the next episode is better.[/spoiler]

AkiraTheFighter

Wow Congratulations S06e02 of Floppy Weaners.
[spoiler]You surprised my by reviving someone today, or at least I would've been surprised had it not been for the long pause before John Snow came back to life. How much you wanna bet he's all green with evil now? Also YEY!!! the dwagons are free!!! I wonder if Hordor will ever speak again. I want to know more of what's going on with Brandon. Arya, please don't fuck her up GoT, PLEASE!!! Oh and Professor Filch dies as well as that King and his wife and newborn son, gee who didn't see that coming *note sarcasm*[/spoiler]

Hydra009

#329
Season 6 Episode 2:  The Plotline That Was Promised

Fantastic episode!  A lot of pleasant surprises this time around.

[spoiler]After a season's hiatus, we catch up with Bran.  Damn, he's grown.  And we get young Lyanna.  Be still, my heart!  And we learn Hodor's real name.  It's Wylis.  Huh, could've sworn it was Walder.  Whatever.  You know what's screwed up?  Hodor could very well be the name of the guy who beat Hodor witless.

Here's a little treasure that's easy to overlook but blew my mind when I heard it:  "It is beautiful beneath the sea"

In the books, there's a creepy little jester named Patchface who suffered such trauma that it drove him mad.  He says really cryptic and prophetic things sometimes.  For example, he predicted the Red Wedding well in advance of it happening.  His creepy sayings frequently involve the phrase "under the sea".  That can't be coincidence.  Somehow, that little devil is involved with the weirwood net!

Bran has to leave?!  Where's he supposed to go?  There's nowhere for him to go and nothing he can do among men.  His journey to the weirwood tree was a one-way trip.  He was supposed to take over for bloodraven, effectively dead to the realm of men but watching and warning from the weirwood network.  What the hell do they need him to do on foot (figuratively speaking) that he couldn't do from the tree?

Fuck yea, Allister Thorne and Olly get their comeuppance!  Castle Black fell to the wildlings surprisingly easy.

I LOVED the peasant joking about Cersei.  Hilarious!  I love the King's Landing peasantry, they're great for a laugh.  And the Undead Mountain was entertaining, too - in his own way.

The scene with Jaime and the High Sparrow was great.  Very bold, indeed.  The High Sparrow was bluffing, but oh man, what a bluff.  I'm surprised Cersei hasn't yet hired someone to poison his food or stab him in his sleep.  Also, the "overthrow an empire" line might've been a bit unwise in front of the ruling house.  Not a good idea to show your cards like that.  I predict he'll be more familiar with the Stranger before long.

New headcannon:  Tyrion the Dragonrider

Arya's scene was way better this time around.  Jaqen tempts her but she stays true.  Nice going.

Meanwhile, in the North, the Boltons do some brainstorming.  I really admire Roose's invariably shrewd and logical personality, but "uniting every northern house against us" is a pretty bizarre and illogical objection coming from a guy who personally took part in a massacre of northerners.  You don't need to worry about being hated when you're already hated.  But apparently, he needn't worry, because -surprise!- *stab*  Man, lords are dropping like flies lately.  And he went out a lot like how Robb went out.  Poetic justice.

It was strange how Harald Karstark didn't react to the murder.  Just being a guest to people who don't hold guest right is a trying experience, let alone witnessing an assassination/coup.  I'm surprised he didn't head for the hills immediately.  And apparently, those dogs have been getting well fed lately.  I'm surprised that the Bastard's "follow me to the kennel" act still works on people, given how often he does it.  Also, I predict that this new and predictably terrible lord is going to go down harder than Theon real soon, probably by the end of the season.

And holy smokes, we get to see Pyke again?!  And not just Pyke, but Euron and Damphair!  Hell yes!  Also, apparently Balon died like a complete idiot.  Figured as much.  And with him, a bunch of Balon theories bought the farm.  What is dead may never die.

And Jon gets his rez.  It's weird that Davos apparently no longer bears any ill will towards Mel and also wants her to work her magic.  Quite the change for him.  Hopefully, now that his job in Castle Black is done, he'll be heading to whiter shores...[/spoiler]