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Game of Thrones

Started by stromboli, June 03, 2013, 11:22:51 AM

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stromboli

[spoiler]Don't recall that Tywin had any plans to that end. Littlefinger? I don't recall that it was planned. The demise of Lysa at some point was planned, but I think he first wanted to establish himself before killing her. [/spoiler]

josephpalazzo

Quote from: stromboli on May 19, 2014, 10:56:29 AM
[spoiler]Don't recall that Tywin had any plans to that end. Littlefinger? I don't recall that it was planned. The demise of Lysa at some point was planned, but I think he first wanted to establish himself before killing her. [/spoiler]
[spoiler]Isn't Oberyn seeking revenge because the Mountain raped and killed his sister? And now that they both will be fighting each other just can't be a coincidence. And the only one capable of masterminding this is Tywin - he can easily drop a word or two to Cersei to pick the Mountain, and he personally asked Oberyn to sit on the trial. What else do you need to see that this duel was carefully planned?

As to Littlefinger, he doesn't do anything unless it's part of a plan (hint: Joffrey's assassination), and so kissing Sansa in plain view, making sure Lysa was watching - look at the replay, you can see clearly a shadow moving in the back as he is kissing Sansa - and that has to be part of a plan.[/spoiler]

Green Bottle

Iv'e only seen series 1 so far not having Sky as i do but anyway, i thot it was excellent an ill catch up with it in time , but iv'e read all the books apart from ''The Winds Of Winter '' which i found out recently wont be out until October , looking forward to reading it and  seeing how it all ends...................i will drop into this thread now n again  for a wee nosey tho... :mrgreen:
God doesnt exist, but if he did id tell him to ''Fuck Off''

Mr.Obvious

Quote from: josephpalazzo on May 19, 2014, 11:39:39 AM
[spoiler]Isn't Oberyn seeking revenge because the Mountain raped and killed his sister? And now that they both will be fighting each other just can't be a coincidence. And the only one capable of masterminding this is Tywin - he can easily drop a word or two to Cersei to pick the Mountain, and he personally asked Oberyn to sit on the trial. What else do you need to see that this duel was carefully planned?

As to Littlefinger, he doesn't do anything unless it's part of a plan (hint: Joffrey's assassination), and so kissing Sansa in plain view, making sure Lysa was watching - look at the replay, you can see clearly a shadow moving in the back as he is kissing Sansa - and that has to be part of a plan.[/spoiler]

[spoiler] In the books it's Oberyn that convinces Tyrion to choose a trial in combat because he knows they will have to call upon the Mountain to defend the accusing party and promises Tyrion that he will fight the mountain for him but mostly for revenge. I don't think Tywin planned Joffrey's murder. And I certainly don't think he planned Oberyn facing off against the Mountain, though if I remember correctly he did plan to throw the mountain under the proverbial bus in order to get Dorne on his side, but I think he mentioned this plan to Tyrion so that would be pretty stupid on his behalf. No, I think Tywin in this instance was simply extremely good at reacting and turning a family drama into the best possible scenario. I think that even if he knew that the Tyrells killed Joffrey, he wouldn't have gone after them for their support is worth more to him than Tyrion is and he saw his chance to finally get rid of Tyrion in what would seem a fair way. I think he even suspects them, but he needs them. Tywin might be the strongest force in Westeros for now, but he's still bound to the game of thrones and can't do as he pleases all the time. He needs allies and can't just go around burning bridges. He's smarter than Joffrey was in this way. In order to stay strong he must look strong. In order to look strong he can't pick fights he can't win and can't demand things he can't get. [/spoiler]
"If we have to go down, we go down together!"
- Your mum, last night, requesting 69.

Atheist Mantis does not pray.

josephpalazzo

Quote from: Mr.Obvious on May 19, 2014, 12:20:36 PM
[spoiler] In the books it's Oberyn that convinces Tyrion to choose a trial in combat because he knows they will have to call upon the Mountain to defend the accusing party and promises Tyrion that he will fight the mountain for him but mostly for revenge. I don't think Tywin planned Joffrey's murder. And I certainly don't think he planned Oberyn facing off against the Mountain, though if I remember correctly he did plan to throw the mountain under the proverbial bus in order to get Dorne on his side, but I think he mentioned this plan to Tyrion so that would be pretty stupid on his behalf. No, I think Tywin in this instance was simply extremely good at reacting and turning a family drama into the best possible scenario. I think that even if he knew that the Tyrells killed Joffrey, he wouldn't have gone after them for their support is worth more to him than Tyrion is and he saw his chance to finally get rid of Tyrion in what would seem a fair way. I think he even suspects them, but he needs them. Tywin might be the strongest force in Westeros for now, but he's still bound to the game of thrones and can't do as he pleases all the time. He needs allies and can't just go around burning bridges. He's smarter than Joffrey was in this way. In order to stay strong he must look strong. In order to look strong he can't pick fights he can't win and can't demand things he can't get. [/spoiler]

Thanks for the info. I haven't read the books, so I'm going by what's on the small screen. It seems like the TV series might be presenting the story slightly differently. I think the producers would need to do that in order to perk up some interest. And it seems to me like they want to make it look like nothing just happens by coincidence - Ned Stark's assasination, the red wedding, the purple wedding, Lysa's execution, for instance, all of which alude to some sinister plan behind those events, but viewed against the bigger arcs - the gathering storms both in the North and Esteros - making those scheming plans kind of petty and, at the same time, a moral lesson in lost opportunities. 

Shiranu

A. That's who I figured the champion would be.

B. That ending tho.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

stromboli

Yeah, my problem is I read the books awhile ago and don't still have them for reference. So I'll detain from "guess" comments from now on.

Berati

Quote from: josephpalazzo on May 19, 2014, 02:06:48 PM
Thanks for the info. I haven't read the books, so I'm going by what's on the small screen. It seems like the TV series might be presenting the story slightly differently. I think the producers would need to do that in order to perk up some interest. And it seems to me like they want to make it look like nothing just happens by coincidence - Ned Stark's assasination, the red wedding, the purple wedding, Lysa's execution, for instance, all of which alude to some sinister plan behind those events, but viewed against the bigger arcs - the gathering storms both in the North and Esteros - making those scheming plans kind of petty and, at the same time, a moral lesson in lost opportunities.
While the TV series is presenting the story slightly differently they are staying remarkably close to the actual main story points AND they are doing it with remarkable artistry.

I found last nights show to be one of the best.
The performances were amazing. Oberyn's speech to Tyrion was crazy good. Watching Dinklages performance as he hears the heartbreaking story of Cerseis cruelty to him as a baby was Emmy worthy as was the speech itself.
I felt the same way about the hound and Arya as well as the performance by Littlefinger. The show is doing a fantastic job of a book that I thought would be near unfilmable  because the book relies so much on backstory and follows so many characters simultaneously.
Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

Hydra009

#143
Just saw the latest one.

I don't know why the Hound can't simply cauterize the wound with hot iron.  Fire applied directly to would would seem to be a bad idea (and he would know what fire does to flesh more than most), but then again, so is a hot iron.

I was definitely wrong in my pick for champion.  Seems like Tyrion got more of a lover than a fighter, though.  Given the brutally cynical tone of the series so far, I don't think that'll play out very well.

Baelish was masterful as always, though explaining that scene to Robin might be a little awkward...

Daenerys really bored me this time around.  Her army is losing steam fast.  And Daario is practically more hateable than Joffrey.

The scene with the Red Woman was really fascinating.  How much of her powers are genuine and how much is trickery?  When Stannis saw into the fire, did he really see the future?

Shiranu

QuoteSeems like Tyrion got more of a lover than a fighter, though.

Just incase someone hasn't seen the newest episode...

[spoiler]
They have mentioned several times he is a master of poison, and I seem to recall that he is a renowned swordsman as well. That paired with his rage at the Lannisters and the Mountain... I think he stands a very good chance of killing him.[/spoiler]
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Berati

QuoteI was definitely wrong in my pick for champion.  Seems like Tyrion got more of a lover than a fighter, though.

If you recall when he was first introduced Tyrion says he is a highly accomplished warrior. This point is driven home when he confronts the Lanister men by himself and doesn't show an ounce of fear even though he is outnumbered by men who are also trained in combat.
Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

stromboli

Yeah, but as I've said here many times, prepare to be surprised. G R R Martin seriously likes to mess with your head. The last book in print ends with a WTF? with what anyone would say is a major character possibly being murdered. I was so mad at the ending I literally threw the book down.

"The Winds of Winter" and "Breath of Spring" are both going to be huge books, something like 1500 pages each. The next one is not due until 2015. I will probably drop dead after reading the last book- I'll be like 70 or so when it is published.  :sad2:


josephpalazzo

Quote from: stromboli on May 20, 2014, 09:23:58 AM
Yeah, but as I've said here many times, prepare to be surprised. G R R Martin seriously likes to mess with your head. The last book in print ends with a WTF? with what anyone would say is a major character possibly being murdered. I was so mad at the ending I literally threw the book down.

[spoiler]No fear, Tyrion will survive.[/spoiler]

Quote"The Winds of Winter" and "Breath of Spring" are both going to be huge books, something like 1500 pages each. The next one is not due until 2015. I will probably drop dead after reading the last book- I'll be like 70 or so when it is published.  :sad2:


Lighten up. Most people expect to live beyond the 80's. So you'll have plenty of time to catch up on your readings.  :biggrin:

Hydra009

Quote from: stromboli on May 20, 2014, 09:23:58 AM"The Winds of Winter" and "Breath of Spring" are both going to be huge books, something like 1500 pages each.
Sweet merciful R'hllor.  I'm glad I went with the ebooks.  I'd be bent over like Pycelle trying to read those tomes.

Hydra009

Quote from: Berati on May 20, 2014, 08:51:32 AMIf you recall when he was first introduced Tyrion says he is a highly accomplished warrior. This point is driven home when he confronts the Lanister men by himself and doesn't show an ounce of fear even though he is outnumbered by men who are also trained in combat.
True.  He interrupted two Lannisters sans armor at a brothel and stabbed one before he could draw his sword.  That's impressive, but a far different situation than dueling or war.  His status as a warrior is more of an informed ability than a manifest one, and most of his screentime is for speeches, brothels, and poems.  So it's understandable that one could think him less of a warrior than someone who spends almost all his screentime hewing through people like butter.