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Game of Thrones

Started by stromboli, June 03, 2013, 11:22:51 AM

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Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on May 20, 2019, 07:24:48 PM
Would any of you name your kids after GoT characters?

Arya sounds nice ;-)  Particularly at Hitler Youth meetings.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Unbeliever

God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Shiranu

#632
I always love JJ's opinions on things, and once again... yeah, his opinions are on point. Why the felt the need to clifnotes the last season rather than make it a 10-season series... one of the biggest dropped balls in T.V. history imo because of the cultural scale G.o.Ts is on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhDgsCIX_WQ&t=673s
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Unbeliever

I haven't seen a single episode of GoT, so it's all spoilers for me! LOL
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Unbeliever

God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Shiranu

#635

Edit: I also just looked at D&D's directing history... these dudes are complete ass. There is absolutely nothing in their history to indicate they have any real writing chops, and everything after the books kinda indicates that.



Also, apparently HBO approached them to do 10 seasons so it could be wrapped up correctly... they said no, they wanted to move on to other projects and only wanted to do 7... so instead of hiring new directors they fucking compromise on a half season?

I haven't been upset about this because I kinda fell off the GoT wagon awhile ago, but the more I learn about these dudes I'm getting legitimately pissed. If they had hired an even remotely decent director who could have been even half as good as G.R.R.M. (and wanted to direct the series), imagine how much better this would have been?

GoT might become one of the largest scale case study in how to ruin something amazing by improperly managing it, and that sucks ass.

[spoiler]I still contend Danny was the best choice for the Throne, but it simply wasn't meant to be. I don't think she was the Mad Queen, I think she was someone who dedicated her entire life to make (almost entirely) positive changes and yet was met by unwilling subjects who cared more about their traditions than progress... and ontop of that watched her best friend beheaded, lost Jorah, had "friends' and advisers stab her in the back from the very beginning, fought multiple rebellions, learned that her love was actually a relative... like, yeah, she went crazy but who wouldn't in that situation?

I would argue she was far less crazy even after all of that than Cersi or Jamie, less of a psychopath than Arya, far more competent of monarch than Jon would have been [though if he surrounded himself with good advisers he probably would have been the better ruler]... in almost all regards (other than the people would never accept her), she was still the best choice... which is admittedly less a statement of her "goodness" and more a statement of how shitty Westeros is.

She obviously was no longer fit to be the Queen, but I don't believe it's because she possessed the madness that ran in her family line... I think it's because she just truly went through shit and it broke her. She was far more the Broken Queen than the Mad Queen, and I think that also adds some major poetry to her successor being, "...the Broken".[/spoiler]
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Baruch

Quote from: Unbeliever on May 21, 2019, 05:51:18 PM
I haven't seen a single episode of GoT, so it's all spoilers for me! LOL

Spoiler = humans are evil, even when they have neat dragons.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Hydra009

Quote from: Shiranu on May 21, 2019, 06:29:37 PMEdit: I also just looked at D&D's directing history... these dudes are complete ass. There is absolutely nothing in their history to indicate they have any real writing chops, and everything after the books kinda indicates that.
Then you'd love a Youtube channel called The Dragon Demands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB70svbYtro

He goes over this stuff in excruciating detail and has been ringing the alarm about D&D for years.  A lot of it was really alarming stuff like D&D favoring non-dialogue wistful staring over dialogue (hence Dany's lack of lines despite ample screentime) or rewriting a relatively minor character (Ellaria Sand) to have much more screentime because they really liked the actor's emoting.  It wasn't till after the Season 5 Dorne plot that most of us fans saw the cracks in production and started taking these sorts of accusations seriously.

Hydra009

#638
I finally have an in-universe explanation for the events of Season 8:

[spoiler]It's a story-within-a-story, like the play in Braavos, penned by Sansa and Sam.

It's pure wish fulfillment on their parts.  They both hate Dany so she's written as a complete monster, Sansa writes herself as Queen of the North - she's clearly envious of Jon's title, Sansa writes that her beloved brother Bran is King despite him being practically a vegetable in reality, Sam writes himself as the archmaester despite flunking out of the Citadel, and the Starks in general and their friends make out like bandits in this new order.  Arya is doing great as a famed explorer (conveniently out of Sansa's hair).  Even Jon's "exile" is essentially a status quo ante for him.

Sansa and Sam both kinda suck at writing fanfics so that's why there are huge plotholes (the loose thread of the Dothraki, the Night's Watch still existing somehow, etc) as well as sloppy mistakes like making Bronn Master of Coin despite the fact that in reality, Bronn has a shaky grasp on the concept of loans (Sansa and Sam don't know this of course, all they know is that he loves money)

This season is literally the result of bad writing.  There's just no other way around it.

In reality, Sam recently arrived in Winterfell and met Sansa and very recently Dany told Sam that she killed his father and brother.[/spoiler]

S&S are the true authors of this madness, not D&D.

Cavebear

Quote from: Hydra009 on April 18, 2019, 03:38:06 PM
People have done a lot worse things for money.  Most of us here know at least a little of that pain.  Getting paid to watch TV - any TV - instead would be a godsend.

But binging is inherently unhealthy - people need sleep and exercise and decent nutrition.  Plus, it kinda ruins the experience - you don't get any time to process what you're watching and after time, boredom sets in and you don't enjoy it anymore.

The focus shouldn't be finishing a show as quickly as possible, but enjoying a show as much as possible.

Well, OK, I COULD be offered enough to watch some Game Of Thrones.  But I'd have to through you down the stairs first.  ;)
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Blackleaf

[spoiler]I don't know if anyone's addressed this yet, but why the hell did they put their women, children, and elderly in the crypt? They knew the villain could raise the dead to fight for him, so why did they think it was a good idea to trap their most vulnerable people with a bunch of dead bodies?

I also feel like Arya sneaking up to the Night King was kinda bullshit. I get what they were going for, a poetic end to the king of death, destroyed by a girl with a gift from the god of death, but how the hell did she get past the army to get the jump on him? If the war with the White Walkers wasn't finished in a single battle, perhaps one of the White Walkers could have been killed in an earlier battle, and Arya could have taken its face. Then sneaking up on the Night King undetected might have made more sense.

Also, it seems very cliched that killing the Night King results in all of the other White Walkers and the dead suddenly dropping dead. I know it was addressed earlier that when a White Walker died, the dead under their control lost their reanimation, but when was it established that killing the Night King would kill all of the White Walkers? Are we just going with vampire rules?

Why even have multiple White Walkers if they're all just going to stand there and watch? Seriously, the other White Walkers don't do a single thing in the battle. The only narrative purpose they serve in the show is having one of them die in the previous season, showing that they can be killed. It just feels like another way rushing the ending just weakened the final season.[/spoiler]
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Hydra009

Quote from: Blackleaf on May 22, 2019, 10:04:50 PM
[spoiler]I don't know if anyone's addressed this yet, but why the hell did they put their women, children, and elderly in the crypt? They knew the villain could raise the dead to fight for him, so why did they think it was a good idea to trap their most vulnerable people with a bunch of dead bodies?
[spoiler]It is the most protected part of the castle, especially when you factor in dragonfire.  I bet lots of King's Landing people wished they had a bunker at the ready.

But...Jon and Tormund know about that mass rez ability so there's really no excuse for that boneheaded move.  But all in all, surprisingly few characters with first names died in those crypts (or at all in that battle), so in hindsight, that wasn't nearly as bad as it could have been.[/spoiler]

Quote[spoiler]I also feel like Arya sneaking up to the Night King was kinda bullshit.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]That's because it absolutely was.  It definitely should've been Jon VS the NK.

I would have enjoyed the NK flying directly to King's Landing and tearing that place apart while Coalition forces fight a distracting army at Winterfell.  If there's anything we've learned about the white walkers, it's that they're very good at adapting their tactics to their foes.  Exhibit A: Ice javelins.[/spoiler]


Blackleaf

Quote from: Hydra009 on May 22, 2019, 10:33:46 PM[spoiler]That's because it absolutely was.  It definitely should've been Jon VS the NK.

I would have enjoyed the NK flying directly to King's Landing and tearing that place apart while Coalition forces fight a distracting army at Winterfell.  If there's anything we've learned about the white walkers, it's that they're very good at adapting their tactics to their foes.  Exhibit A: Ice javelins.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]I don't have a problem with who killed the Night King, but with how it happened. I even think they had a pretty decent way of setting it up. The man who was risen from the dead several times dies one final time, saving Arya, completing his character arc and implying some importance in Arya's destiny. The Red Woman turns to Arya and says, "What do we say to the god of death?" A reference to her former master, as well as her training as a face stealer. The problem, though, was with the execution. It seemed like the writers knew what conclusion they wanted and worked backwards, and it felt very forced when she just showed up out of nowhere to deal the final blow.

Jon's destiny should have been to become king, and I thought that was where they were going, but that was another way the show felt rushed. Tyrion convinces Jon that he should become king. Well, how was he supposed to do that? The people of Essos don't care about Jon's lineage, so it's not like he could just stab her and say, "Hey, guys! Turns out I'm a Targaryen, so I guess I'm king now." Now, if the show was a little longer, the other nations might have had the chance to react to Daenerys' mass genocide by rising against her, and Jon could have turned against her then. But they just couldn't wait to finish the story, so...

Also, the Three Eyed Raven would have made more sense as a Master of Whispers than a king. First they say that he "doesn't want," and now he's in charge of everyone's well being? Yeah. Sounds like a good idea. Making him the king just seems like the directors writing themselves into a corner. They couldn't have Jon released and become king without a whole other battle they didn't have time for, so let's make this random guy king instead.[/spoiler]
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Hydra009

#644
Quote from: Blackleaf on May 22, 2019, 11:19:38 PM[spoiler]Jon's destiny should have been to become king, and I thought that was where they were going[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Because that's how 99% of fantasy books turn out.  Jon is basically your traditional hero - a chosen one with a mysterious lineage that turns out makes him royalty.  We've seen this a million times.

What I love about GoT is that it takes typical stuff like this and turns it on its head.

Imo, what would have been a satisfying way of doing that would be people all around Jon clamoring for him to be king and he personally melts the Iron Throne, rejecting both his birthright and the feudalism of Westeroes simultaneously.  That way, his new life with the wildlings makes more sense as a deliberate choice to reject the corruption and endless violence of Westeroes for a more authentic and less cruel barbarian way of life[/spoiler]

Quote[spoiler]Also, the Three Eyed Raven would have made more sense as a Master of Whispers than a king.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Absolutely.[/spoiler]

Quote[spoiler]First they say that he "doesn't want," and now he's in charge of everyone's well being? Yeah. Sounds like a good idea.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]"I can never be lord of anything." - Bran
Also Bran, "King sounds nice"[/spoiler]

Quote[spoiler]Making him the king just seems like the directors writing themselves into a corner.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]It's likely that part was GRRM's idea.  He loves the idea of an all-powerful shut-in - a character who is kind of a nobody and doesn't even have much of a life of his own gaining magical powers that give him a great deal of influence on the world and agency that he would otherwise lack.  *coughselfinsertcough*[/spoiler]