Author Topic: Islamist Anjem Choudary convicted in the UK.  (Read 985 times)


Offline mauricio (OP)

Re: Islamist Anjem Choudary convicted in the UK.
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2016, 04:30:00 PM »

Offline Baruch

Re: Islamist Anjem Choudary convicted in the UK.
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2016, 05:40:55 PM »
End freedom of speech?
End freedom of religion?
Liberalism is suicide?
שלום

Offline Shiranu

"Too curious flower, watching us pass, met death; Our hungry donkey." - Basho

"You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty." - Mahatma Gandhi

Offline mauricio (OP)

Re: Islamist Anjem Choudary convicted in the UK.
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2016, 05:55:14 PM »
End freedom of speech?
End freedom of religion?
Liberalism is suicide?

shit is complicated. But if liberalism survives Muslim assimilation (among other things like the constant threat of corporate corruption and native authoritarians) then you will get a multicultural society which allows individual self determination while still being able to preserve itself and it's core values.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 05:59:59 PM by mauricio »

Offline pr126

Re: Islamist Anjem Choudary convicted in the UK.
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2016, 12:08:38 AM »
Q: Was Anjem Choudary preaching anything contrary to the Islamic scriptures?

A: Not at all. Everything he said is authentic, verifiable Islamic Law.

But we don't want you to know that.
Islam is peace and tolerance. That is all you need to hear.


Offline Shiranu

Re: Islamist Anjem Choudary convicted in the UK.
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2016, 12:50:33 AM »
Quote
No, I do not think it is "whining", simply posting an article I happen to agree with.

Yep. Never bitch and whine when Muslims don't fit your agenda, they are all just part of a grand conspiracy.

Totally two different things.
"Too curious flower, watching us pass, met death; Our hungry donkey." - Basho

"You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty." - Mahatma Gandhi

Offline pr126

Re: Islamist Anjem Choudary convicted in the UK.
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2016, 04:06:30 AM »
@Shiranu

You cannot separate the ideology from the people who are holding it.
When someone criticises Islam, it is automatically hating Muslims.
You do this automatically, without a thought.
A Pavlovian reflex.

Do you do this for other ideologies, or just Islam?

I understand when Muslims do this, that's  because Islam is their identity, so for them it is a personal attack.

« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 04:11:20 AM by pr126 »

Offline mauricio (OP)

Re: Islamist Anjem Choudary convicted in the UK.
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2016, 04:24:07 AM »
Taqiyya.

are you accusing the Muslims on the video of deliberately lying to protect/propagate islam?

Offline pr126

Re: Islamist Anjem Choudary convicted in the UK.
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2016, 05:19:01 AM »
are you accusing the Muslims on the video of deliberately lying to protect/propagate islam?
Absolutely.
But it is OK, because people don't want the truth. It is too disturbing.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 06:21:22 AM by pr126 »

Offline pr126

Re: Islamist Anjem Choudary convicted in the UK.
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2016, 05:29:01 AM »
End freedom of speech?
End freedom of religion?
Liberalism is suicide?
Wherever Islam rules, there is no freedom of speech, no freedom of religion.
Liberals cannot understand that. That answers the third question.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 05:54:55 AM by pr126 »

Offline Shiranu

Re: Islamist Anjem Choudary convicted in the UK.
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2016, 07:22:33 AM »
Absolutely.
But it is OK, because people don't want the truth. It is too disturbing.

"I'm not attacking them, I'm attacking Islam! You gotta learn to separate the two!"

---one post later---

"I am directly attacking them, but people don't want the truth!"
"Too curious flower, watching us pass, met death; Our hungry donkey." - Basho

"You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty." - Mahatma Gandhi

Offline pr126

Re: Islamist Anjem Choudary convicted in the UK.
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2016, 09:13:02 AM »
"I'm not attacking them, I'm attacking Islam! You gotta learn to separate the two!"

---one post later---

"I am directly attacking them, but people don't want the truth!"

Stating a fact doesn't mean an attack. Well, maybe to you.

Takiyya (lying) is allowed in the service of Islam.  Fact.

Understanding Taqiyya ― Islamic Principle of Lying for the Sake of Allah
Quote
The word "Taqiyya" literally means: "Concealing, precaution, guarding.” It is employed in disguising one's beliefs, intentions, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions or strategies. In practical terms it is manifested as dissimulation, lying, deceiving, vexing and confounding with the intention of deflecting attention, foiling or pre-emptive blocking. It is currently employed in fending off and neutralising any criticism of Islam or Muslims.

Falsehoods told to prevent the denigration of Islam, to protect oneself, or to promote the cause of Islam are sanctioned in the Qur'an and Sunna, including lying under oath in testimony before a court, deceiving by making distorted statements to the media such as the claim that Islam is a “religion of peace”. A Muslim is even permitted to deny or denounce his faith if, in so doing, he protects or furthers the interests of Islam, so long as he remains faithful to Islam in his heart.

Anjem Choudary did not use takiyya. He was telling the truth about Islam.
Was he a hate preacher?  Would Islam preach hate? Emphatically, yes.

"Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah . We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone" . Quran 60:4


« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 10:25:41 AM by pr126 »

Offline Shiranu

Re: Islamist Anjem Choudary convicted in the UK.
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2016, 01:50:10 PM »
That was a nifty way to get out of saying you don't belittle Moderate Muslims... insist they are non-existent without actually saying it and implying you are only speaking "facts", when you don't know the people's reasoning at all. Of course the very act of implying they don't exist or are just religiously lying as part of a grand conspiracy instead of being just normal people who don't like extremism is in itself belittling... as is implying that you know what they mean and they don't... but ya know, whatever....
"Too curious flower, watching us pass, met death; Our hungry donkey." - Basho

"You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty." - Mahatma Gandhi