what would be an actually good reason to believe in a god.

[Hydra009]

We ourselves are proof that Existence is at least equal to us

[Blackleaf]

It's the classic argument of "whatever created us must be greater than we are to be capable of doing so." The problem is that humanity is actively proving this argument wrong, and the proof is in your pocket. We create technology capable of doing things that our limited brains are incapable of doing unassisted, and it accomplishes those things almost instantly. And this technology is growing more and more intelligent every year. In other words, we have created things that are more intelligent than we are.

We've also created tools that are more powerful than we are, more precise than we are, more efficient than we are. There are few human traits that we have not done better in something else, and that list will continue to grow shorter. So why should we believe that it is logically necessary that something more powerful and more intelligent than we are must have created us?

[Baruch]

Yes, as pagan followers of Daedalus and Icarus ... we do show we are incarnate manifestation of Hephaestus aka Vulcan.  Live long and prosper ;-)

[Munch]

I'd probably believe in god, if I looked up in the sky, and saw a gigantic rainbow colored dildo crashing down on earth.

...

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Baruch]

I'd probably believe in god, if I looked up in the sky, and saw a gigantic rainbow colored dildo crashing down on earth.

...

[spoiler][/spoiler]

That only happens at certain annual Japanese fertility festivals ;-)

[Hijiri Byakuren]

That only happens at certain annual Japanese fertility festivals ;-)

Pretty sure I've read a hentai doujin featuring that exact plot.

[Baruch]

Interesting clip where character finds out that he and his girlfriend are both clones ... somewhat like in Genesis ;-)

[fencerider]

so god disappears for 1000s of years and then reintroduces himself by destroying munch's house... ouch. I dont think your insurance is gonna cover that kind of damage.

[godmessenger]

We ourselves are proof of God. Nothing can give out what it doesn't possess already in store. The sun can't give more energy than it retains. I can't give out more money that I have on me. I can't do things that require knowledge that I don't have, etc. Get it, folks?

2nd proof: the nature of humans to conceive of eternal values. What is a collection of molecules doing conceiving of abstract concepts? Yet we do: God, math, geometry, love, hate, good, evil, existence and time. Animals don't do this. As theologian Thomas Aquinas said, if something exists in part in a subject, there is a whole from which that part is taken. So we are proof of a spiritual being, right?

3rd proof: Humans speak not only sounds, but the primary sequence, known in grammar as the "sentence". The sentence is "subject, verb, indirect object, preposition, and direct object. The primary sequence is cause, action, continuance, indefinite procedure (the directional pattern), and path (final result), because somewhere on a path a motion will come to rest. Ex. Joe threw the ball over the fence. The primary sequence is abstract nature. Why are humans connected to it?

4th proof: The creation of design forms. Design forms are physical matter forms with purpose: clothing, tools, writing, painting, etc. Nature (the elements) doesn't do this.

5th proof: The creation of plants and animals. These are design mechanisms that replicate themselves. Evolution is random elements somehow creating cells, organs, and appendages in succession, culminating in a creature that holds together despite the elements of the environment.

[Unbeliever]

I have no idea what you're talking about - and neither do you...

[Mr.Obvious]

We ourselves are proof of God. Nothing can give out what it doesn't possess already in store. The sun can't give more energy than it retains. I can't give out more money that I have on me. I can't do things that require knowledge that I don't have, etc. Get it, folks?

2nd proof: the nature of humans to conceive of eternal values. What is a collection of molecules doing conceiving of abstract concepts? Yet we do: God, math, geometry, love, hate, good, evil, existence and time. Animals don't do this. As theologian Thomas Aquinas said, if something exists in part in a subject, there is a whole from which that part is taken. So we are proof of a spiritual being, right?

3rd proof: Humans speak not only sounds, but the primary sequence, known in grammar as the "sentence". The sentence is "subject, verb, indirect object, preposition, and direct object. The primary sequence is cause, action, continuance, indefinite procedure (the directional pattern), and path (final result), because somewhere on a path a motion will come to rest. Ex. Joe threw the ball over the fence. The primary sequence is abstract nature. Why are humans connected to it?

4th proof: The creation of design forms. Design forms are physical matter forms with purpose: clothing, tools, writing, painting, etc. Nature (the elements) doesn't do this.

5th proof: The creation of plants and animals. These are design mechanisms that replicate themselves. Evolution is random elements somehow creating cells, organs, and appendages in succession, culminating in a creature that holds together despite the elements of the environment.

Are you alright there mate? Looks like you had a stroke or something.

[Mike Cl]

We ourselves are proof of God. Nothing can give out what it doesn't possess already in store. The sun can't give more energy than it retains. I can't give out more money that I have on me. I can't do things that require knowledge that I don't have, etc. Get it, folks?

2nd proof: the nature of humans to conceive of eternal values. What is a collection of molecules doing conceiving of abstract concepts? Yet we do: God, math, geometry, love, hate, good, evil, existence and time. Animals don't do this. As theologian Thomas Aquinas said, if something exists in part in a subject, there is a whole from which that part is taken. So we are proof of a spiritual being, right?

3rd proof: Humans speak not only sounds, but the primary sequence, known in grammar as the "sentence". The sentence is "subject, verb, indirect object, preposition, and direct object. The primary sequence is cause, action, continuance, indefinite procedure (the directional pattern), and path (final result), because somewhere on a path a motion will come to rest. Ex. Joe threw the ball over the fence. The primary sequence is abstract nature. Why are humans connected to it?

4th proof: The creation of design forms. Design forms are physical matter forms with purpose: clothing, tools, writing, painting, etc. Nature (the elements) doesn't do this.

5th proof: The creation of plants and animals. These are design mechanisms that replicate themselves. Evolution is random elements somehow creating cells, organs, and appendages in succession, culminating in a creature that holds together despite the elements of the environment.

Hey--buddy--seek help.

[Blackleaf]

We ourselves are proof of God. Nothing can give out what it doesn't possess already in store. The sun can't give more energy than it retains. I can't give out more money that I have on me. I can't do things that require knowledge that I don't have, etc. Get it, folks?

Uh, hello? I already debunked this bullshit argument on this page. We actively create technology that is smarter, stronger, more efficient, more accurate, and can do things we can't do ourselves. Our intelligence does not necessitate a bigger intelligence as a source. Get it, moron?

[Baruch]

I am not sure you mean what you say.  The things people build are not intelligent.  We often use these things unintelligently.  People have intelligence, if not wisdom.  We don't know where human intelligence comes from, that is the theist/atheist argument.  In my experience intelligence is inheritance from ancestors (going back to algae and bacteria) and the mysterious development of personal experience aka psychology.  That much an atheist should agree to as well.  But the development of human intelligence isn't something that can be investigated using controlled experiments, it takes billions of years.  We can study how children develop, but that doesn't solve the bootstrap problem ... they are raised by adults, not by themselves.  Children raised without adult supervision ... we are told anecdotally, are autistic and violent.

[trdsf]

We ourselves are proof of God. Nothing can give out what it doesn't possess already in store. The sun can't give more energy than it retains. I can't give out more money that I have on me. I can't do things that require knowledge that I don't have, etc. Get it, folks?

Non-supported proposition.  I don't currently possess the knowledge of what 2³¹ or the hundredth digit of pi happens to be, but I can work it out (rather more laboriously, in the case of pi -- the series converges rather slowly).  I can give out more money than I have on me, or I could if I were unethical enough to kite a check.  I don't directly possess the knowledge to make a peach pie, having never made one, but I bet I could make an educated guess.

My earbuds make sound.  The sound is not inherent in the earbud.  I can make a paper airplane.  Paper is not inherently aerodynamic.

Your 'argument' is untenable.  Well, that is inherent in it...

2nd proof: the nature of humans to conceive of eternal values. What is a collection of molecules doing conceiving of abstract concepts? Yet we do: God, math, geometry, love, hate, good, evil, existence and time. Animals don't do this. As theologian Thomas Aquinas said, if something exists in part in a subject, there is a whole from which that part is taken. So we are proof of a spiritual being, right?

Wrong.

Why shouldn't a collection of molecules, evolved over deep time to be able to comprehend its environment, conceive abstract concepts?

Also, there are some animals that can perform basic math.  It's recently been demonstrated that dolphins use particular sounds to mean particular individuals -- we can call that a name, which suggests that dolphins possess a certain sense of self.  Abstraction is more refined in humans, but it isn't present only in humans.

In any case, theologians' arguments can largely be dismissed out of hand as being non-testable.  That's the nice thing about being a theologian -- you can just make stuff up, and there's no way to test it in any objective manner.

3rd proof: Humans speak not only sounds, but the primary sequence, known in grammar as the "sentence". The sentence is "subject, verb, indirect object, preposition, and direct object. The primary sequence is cause, action, continuance, indefinite procedure (the directional pattern), and path (final result), because somewhere on a path a motion will come to rest. Ex. Joe threw the ball over the fence. The primary sequence is abstract nature. Why are humans connected to it?

You're seriously hinging part of your "argument" (such that it is) on the fact that language exists, and is capable of describing events in order.

Yup, you have the necessary skills to be a theologian, all right.

4th proof: The creation of design forms. Design forms are physical matter forms with purpose: clothing, tools, writing, painting, etc. Nature (the elements) doesn't do this.

Nature "designs" things all the time.  That's the whole point of evolution.  What nature doesn't do is decide ahead of time what it's going to make.  Instead, life forms slowly evolve to fit the environment they inhabit.

Evolution doesn't say, "I better come up with an animal with a shaggy coat in case there's an ice age."  Evolution is the process by whic an animal comes to fit its environment.  If that environment changes, for example, if there happens to be an ice age, an animal with a slightly shaggier coat will probably be more likely to survive and pass along shaggy-coat genes.  As the cold persists, or deepens, animals that happen to have slightly better insulation will have statistically better chances of survival.  And over extended periods of time, that turns a short-coated animal into a long-coated one.

No magic necessary.  Just time.

5th proof: The creation of plants and animals. These are design mechanisms that replicate themselves. Evolution is random elements somehow creating cells, organs, and appendages in succession, culminating in a creature that holds together despite the elements of the environment.

Perfectly natural, no superstition required.  All it takes is one self-replicating molecule and a few billion years, culminating in a creature that holds together because of the elements of the environment.