Thoughts and possible refutations on this quote by J.C. Ryle

Started by DavidOller, August 11, 2016, 02:54:23 PM

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DavidOller

“Be very sure of this,-people never reject the Bible because they cannot understand it. They understand it only too well; they understand that it condemns their own behavior; they understand that it witnesses against their own sins, and summons them to judgment.” ― J.C. Ryle
and
The Bible is a book that exposes it's readers. To ascertain a person's true character and habits just ask them to read a chapter, and then ask them what they got out of it.

widdershins

It starts out okay.  I'm an atheist because I understand the Bible too well, after all.  But it's not because it condemns my behavior.  With very little modification to my daily life I could join just about any church and be "saved" by their standards.  I don't whore around, I barely ever drink, I don't do drugs, I have 4 children, all with the same woman to whom I'm married and never divorcing...I'm a boring guy.

This is more revealing of the fantasy-steeped mind that said it than it is of the people he's talking about.  Many Christians live in this fantasy world where anyone who isn't a member of their church is rebelling against their God, refusing to follow his rules.  The reality is that most of those rules are actually so easy to follow that most atheists follow the lion share of them all the time.  We don't go around killing people or stealing their shit.  We don't usually SWAT our neighbors for laughs (bearing false witness).  While our neighbor's wife may be hot we don't normally go around "coveting" her, and my block is a sausage fest, so it's even easier for me.  Most atheists would have to modify their daily lives very little, if at all, to live by the standards of most churches.  For most of us there is really only ONE thing we would need to change...we would need to stop focusing on all the rules we don't break and find SOMETHING we are doing wrong to prove to ourselves how utterly worthless we are without God.  We would have to fantasize sin to make ourselves believe that we are sinners.

In fact, I would have to be a WORSE person to join many churches.  My thoughts on gay marriage are "To each his own".  I would have to change that to "Kill them all!" to join many churches.  I would have to fill my heart with hatred and pretend it wasn't hatred by using witty little nonsense sayings like, "Love the person, hate the sin".  Even if I were to live by that saying I would STILL have to add "hate" to how I feel, even if it weren't for people.

That second quote is essentially an admission that any and every man, woman and child will see exactly what they want in the Bible.  Without even knowing it the person is admitting that it is not divinely inspired, but simply a work so poorly written by such primitive people that when you read it, it says whatever you want it to say.  Again, this quote is more revealing about the one speaking it as it suggests that HIS reading of the Bible is the "correct" one, even after admitting that it means something completely different to essentially every reader.  When you "ask them what they got out of it", how are you to judge that person's "true character"?  By your own, "correct" standards, of course.

J.C. Ryle was an idiot who disguised idiocy as wisdom.
This sentence is a lie...

Mike Cl

Quote from: DavidOller on August 11, 2016, 02:54:23 PM
“Be very sure of this,-people never reject the Bible because they cannot understand it. They understand it only too well; they understand that it condemns their own behavior; they understand that it witnesses against their own sins, and summons them to judgment.” ― J.C. Ryle
and
The Bible is a book that exposes it's readers. To ascertain a person's true character and habits just ask them to read a chapter, and then ask them what they got out of it.
I agree with both of your quotes.  I did not reject the bible until I read it.  And I rejected it because I did understand it--or as much as anybody can understand this mess.  What behavior it condemns is questionable.  And it is clear that god and those who he picks to act in his stead, can do whatever they want.  Your god is, at best, a horrid mass murderer.  And I even reject that your bible wintesses against their own sins, and summons them to judgement.  That is purely your own interpretation of what this bible is supposed to say. 

And yes, the bible does expose it's readers.  Anyone who reads this and believes it is the total truth--or makes any kind of sense--is exposed as an idiot; as a person who only believes and does not think; a person who is simply willfully ignorant and stupid. 

The only type of person who believes the bible is truth is willfully ignorant, blind and refuses to think.  There is no proof that any of this tripe is factual or actual or truthful. 

OP is this anything in this pile of garbage you call the bible factual?  Can you supply one example???????
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Baruch

Moralists found a book that condemns immorality?  Will miracles never cease ;-)

Actually all human beings are immoral, but there is no redemption.  Not thru Moses, or Jesus or Muhammad.  Sand pounders ever one!

So enjoy your stay in Hell ... I will see you there.

In the Mahabharata ... the evil guys go to Heaven and the good guys go to Hell ... that is a mature scripture.  No Santa Clause.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

GSOgymrat

Good thing I haven't read the Bible. I would rather not be exposed.

Baruch

Quote from: GSOgymrat on August 11, 2016, 07:24:53 PM
Good thing I haven't read the Bible. I would rather not be exposed.

You can read it while clothed ... but to each their own ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

TomFoolery

Quote from: DavidOller on August 11, 2016, 02:54:23 PM
“Be very sure of this,-people never reject the Bible because they cannot understand it. They understand it only too well; they understand that it condemns their own behavior; they understand that it witnesses against their own sins, and summons them to judgment.” ― J.C. Ryle

Um, so does the law. I don't worship the image of justice personified.
How can you be sure my refusal to agree with your claim a symptom of my ignorance and not yours?

Baruch

Quote from: TomFoolery on August 11, 2016, 07:43:11 PM
Um, so does the law. I don't worship the image of justice personified.

Heretic!  Please show up at the Colosseum for entertainment.  Justicia is a required polytheistic personification.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mike Cl

J.C. Ryle is not a man of any particular ability to read and understand what he has read.  He is blinded as all other preachers are; blinded by his willful ignorance and just plain stupid thinking. 
He says:
"The New Testament begins with the life, death, and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. No part of the Bible is so important as this, and no part is so full and complete. Four distinct Gospels tell us the story of Christ's doing and dying. Four times over we read the precious account of His works and words. How thankful we ought to be for this! To know Christ is life eternal. To believe in Christ is to have peace with God. To follow Christ is to be a true Christian. To be with Christ will be heaven itself. We can never hear too much about Jesus Christ."

Anybody who can read all four of the first books of the NT and not see any inconsistencies just demonstrates how willfully ignorant and blind that person is.  Ryle is not somebody I'd want to quote or even consider reading.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

aitm

Quote“Be very sure of this,-people never reject the Bible because they cannot understand it.

Meh, they openly accept it even though they don't read it…
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Duncle

Quote
“Be very sure of this,-people never reject the Bible because they cannot understand it. They understand it only too well; they understand that it condemns their own behavior; they understand that it witnesses against their own sins, and summons them to judgment.”
Actually, I reject the Bible because I understand it a whole lot better than Mr Ryle. Unlike him, I understand that the Bible is a collection of myths and legends. I reject it as a source of truth for the same reason that I reject the Elder Edda and the Epic of Gilgamesh.

QuoteThe Bible is a book that exposes it's readers. To ascertain a person's true character and habits just ask them to read a chapter, and then ask them what they got out of it.
Indeed the Bible does expose its readers. On one hand we have rationally minded folk who can see it as a collection of myths. On the other, we have people who for whatever reason set their rational faculties aside, and choose to believe in a book that it by turns absurd, immoral and self-contradictory.

doorknob

I don't have a whole lot of behaviors condemned by the bible so that's really just ludicrous. This is yet again a common misconception Christians have that atheists are evil people. All it's saying is "you just want to sin"

That has nothing to do with why I reject the bible. I could list the reasons but there is a mountain of them. My main reason for not believing is that science has pretty much disproved the bible and there is no real reason to think that there is a god.

GSOgymrat

Quote from: doorknob on August 13, 2016, 02:13:56 PM
I don't have a whole lot of behaviors condemned by the bible so that's really just ludicrous. This is yet again a common misconception Christians have that atheists are evil people. All it's saying is "you just want to sin"

That has nothing to do with why I reject the bible. I could list the reasons but there is a mountain of them. My main reason for not believing is that science has pretty much disproved the bible and there is no real reason to think that there is a god.

I think many religious people just don't understand or have difficulty accepting that atheists sincerely don't believe in a god or "a higher power." Many people consider god to be self-evident and that atheist CHOOSE not to believe, that God is in everyone's heart and atheist suppress this knowledge because they want to sin, are angry with god or are arrogant. They honestly don't get that for me that "feeling" of god, the sense that someone is listening to me even when I am alone, the feeling there is purpose behind events, isn't there and was never there. Since I don't share those intuitions, when I try to understand a god from a rational perspective the concept falls apart. When I try to understand from an emotional or intuitive perspective it doesn't ring true. So the very idea that I'm supposed to live my life according to an ancient book that describes magical feats, arcane rules and is morally very flawed simply because it is the word of a god that doesn't exist is ridiculous. From my perspective the only thing that make the Bible special is that many people in my society believe it is special, otherwise it is like any other text such as the Koran, the Vedas, the Iliad or a Book of Shadows.

Baruch

Quote from: doorknob on August 13, 2016, 02:13:56 PM
I don't have a whole lot of behaviors condemned by the bible so that's really just ludicrous. This is yet again a common misconception Christians have that atheists are evil people. All it's saying is "you just want to sin"

That has nothing to do with why I reject the bible. I could list the reasons but there is a mountain of them. My main reason for not believing is that science has pretty much disproved the bible and there is no real reason to think that there is a god.

Christians want to sin, and feel guilty about it.  I want to sin, and not feel guilty about it.  Who is winning?
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

widdershins

Quote from: Baruch on August 13, 2016, 08:35:32 PM
Christians want to sin, and feel guilty about it.  I want to sin, and not feel guilty about it.  Who is winning?
I don't recognize the legitimacy of "sin".
This sentence is a lie...