Black Christians - Why do they exist?

[Blackleaf]

You mentioned that my statement is incoherent.  I fail to see how so, but I apologize for the confusion.  Perhaps if I phrase the same statement in another way it might be of some help:

In answer to the original query as to why blacks would adopt the religion of those who brutally kill and torture them...?

Maybe they understand that all who say they are Christians don't necessarily act in accordance with Christian principles.  Therefore, Christian views should be judged by the teachings themselves, instead of judging Christianity on the basis of the deeds of people who do not act at all like Christians, even though they claim to be.
Hope this helps.  :)

The thing is, the pro-slavery Christians were employing Christian principles. The Bible tells slaves to obey, and gives owners rules for beating their slaves. It never says that slavery is wrong. In fact, God orders his chosen people to take slaves. The only time God shows any distaste for slavery is when the slave is Hebrew. Other people were fair game.

[Duncle]

There is some discussion of slavery in the OT, especially in Exodus. For example:

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.  If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.  But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.  And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.  If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.  If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

The NT has less on slavery, but there are still a few gems:

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear.  Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed.  If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful.  You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts.  Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

Nowhere in the Bible is there any indication that God disapproves of slavery. Rather, slavery is seen as an institution that Christians should respect. True Christian principles are pro-slavery principles.

[Baruch]

Evangelical abolitionists like John Brown were nut cases, and killer cult leaders like Jim Jones.  Slavery has never gone away, it is a Hydra, cut off one head, and two grow back.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

I've wondered the same for quite some time.  I still have no real answers.  Except that black people are people and like all people, they generally like to believe and not think.  So, any religion would fit that category--christian or muslim; both religions condone slavery and engage in it even today.  The eternal question of all ages and cultures--why am I alive?--demands an answer.  To find it, it is easier to simply believe something rather than having to engage in thinking and looking for logical facts and data.  It's easy to say that the bad christians used and distorted the bible to allow slavery.  The good ones fought it using the same bible.  It's easy to say the slaves used the bible and religion to 'communicate' among themselves and the masters did not realize that.  It is easy to make up things to believe in--hard to have to think and analyze what really is going on.  Science and reason takes work--religion only takes believing in something.

Very much this. Religion (not necessarily theism) is something you don't generally get into via logic. If you question them about slavery, black Christians are just as likely to go for the "deus vult" explanation as any other Christian.

[Duncle]

There is another connection between Christianity and slavery. In Christianity the God-human relationship is modelled on the master-slave relationship. This is made very explicit in Romans 6:15-23:

15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves nto anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and, having been set free from sin, rhave become slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members uas slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So...One can sort of see how this nonsense might appeal to someone who actually was a slave to a real slave master in the real tangible world. If everyone is rightfully the chattel of the uber slave-lord in the sky, then being a slave to a human as well perhaps isn't too bad. And beyond that, one can see how closely bound up Christianity and slavery actually are- Christianity doesn't just incidentally support slavery, it makes slavery central to the believer's relationship with the divine. This is truly a vile and degrading religion.

[SGOS]

There is another connection between Christianity and slavery. In Christianity the God-human relationship is modelled on the master-slave relationship. This is made very explicit in Romans 6:15-23....So...One can sort of see how this nonsense might appeal to someone who actually was a slave to a real slave master in the real tangible world. If everyone is rightfully the chattel of the uber slave-lord in the sky, then being a slave to a human as well perhaps isn't too bad. And beyond that, one can see how closely bound up Christianity and slavery actually are- Christianity doesn't just incidentally support slavery, it makes slavery central to the believer's relationship with the divine. This is truly a vile and degrading religion.

"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."   

Hmm.  It works.
Slaves can't quit their jobs when the master pisses them off.   Why not wish for a fantasy master that still retains ultimate power and the ability to inflict massive pain and the other attributes of the slave master, but is somehow loving and charitable, and one you can manipulate through the magical power of prayer.

The Christian God concept seems to be built on the Master slave relationship, and it works for white people as well as black people, but black people may have a heritage that makes the God Master even easier to welcome into existence.

[Baruch]

It is better to have the Emperor as master than one of the bottom feeders.  And G-d is the ultimate Roman Emperor ... "Savior" is one of Augustus' titles after all, and he was worshipped even while he lived, as an incarnate god (in Greco-Roman terms, not Jewish terms).

Being a non-slave, free, means you are able to buy other people.  And that is what a White American is, free ... to buy non-White people.  That is what the American Revolution was all about.  The Romans were more color blind.  They even had one emperor who was an Arab ... will be a long time before America is that color-blind.   Prayer - yes petition your master ... might prevent a beating.

[leo]

So I recently found the Cult of Dusty channel on YouTube via a collaboration video with The Amazing Atheist and several others. The guy is hilarious and has some really interesting points. Last night, I watched a video of his titled "Black Christians = Uncle Toms." I remember this thought passing through my head once. Why would a people adopt the religion of those who brutally kill and torture them, who capture them from their homes and treat them as subhuman property? Why wouldn't black people cast aside the religion that was forced upon them after they were made free? I could understand black Muslims, but Christians?

And one of the funny things I've noticed is that some predominantly black churches still have old white men in leadership positions. So little has changed. White men still use their religion to control black people. How do they never make this connection?

Dusty made some very good points. If Christianity is true, then black people kind of owe their ancestors' slave masters, don't they? If it wasn't for them, these black people would be doomed to eternal Hell fire. Isn't it better to suffer for a little while on earth than to die and go to Hell to suffer forever? So on behalf of my (probably) slave owning ancestors, you're welcome black Christians!

But as a student in psychology, of course I understand. After generations and generations of the religion being forced on them, of course they'd stop questioning it. It's kind of like Stockholm Syndrome, except applied to generations rather than individuals. But it's time that black Christians woke up and realize that it makes absolutely no sense for them to continue worshiping the god who was used to defend the slavery and treatment of their ancestors.

I agree. I can't understand why black people subscribe to Christianity and Islam but woman Christians are similar silly. Why  Christians women exists? The Bible ( old and new testament ) is very anti woman.

[Munch]

I remember reading once how a black gay porn star I use to enjoy, named Flex Deon Blake:
, who when in porn did some really risque stuff, ended up after finishing his porn career moved onto god. Just always struck me as bizarre why someone who is both black and gay would 'find god' despite being both those things and living in the internet age.

[GSOgymrat]

I remember reading once how a black gay porn star I use to enjoy, named Flex Deon Blake:
, who when in porn did some really risque stuff, ended up after finishing his porn career moved onto god. Just always struck me as bizarre why someone who is both black and gay would 'find god' despite being both those things and living in the internet age.

I don't know Flex Dion Blake but it is common for people who are unhappy with their lives to turn to religion. They often find a lot of community support. It is also common replace one addiction with another.

Am I the only one who sees this topic as another face of identity politics? How can a gay black man be Christian? That does not adhere to the stereotype. That does not make sense in terms of his identity  and intersectional profile. As a gay, black man he is aligning with a group that does not like the groups we as a society assigned to him. It is almost like, gasp! he is an individual and this theory doesn't accurately predict everyone's behavior!

[Baruch]

Extreme individualism and extreme socialism are both ... extreme.

[g2perk]

I agree. I can't understand why black people subscribe to Christianity and Islam but woman Christians are similar silly. Why  Christians women exists? The Bible ( old and new testament ) is very anti woman.

There is no such thing as religion. The white man made that part up to take control of peoples minds.


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[Baruch]

There is no such thing as religion. The white man made that part up to take control of peoples minds.


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So we are all White then?  Thought so ... ass holes all around.

[g2perk]

So we are all White then?  Thought so ... ass holes all around.

Hey that was someone else's words. They were talking about black Christians. Soooo

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[Baruch]

Hey that was someone else's words. They were talking about black Christians. Soooo

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Quotation marks are your friend.  Otherwise everything you post is yours to keep.