The Boy Scouts Exodus Has Begun

[Colanth]

> Homosexuality isn't even mentioned in the Bible. Men having sex with men is, but that's not what homosexuality is.

So with whom do homosexual men have sex?  Homosexual women?

With whomever they want.  The definition of "homosexual" isn't "having sex with someone of the same gender".

I think you are either very confused about what homosexuality is, or you are trying to split hairs.

I'm just trying to differentiate between a person being homosexual and a person having homosexual sex.  The two aren't even close to being the same thing.

Homosexual acts are certainly condemned in the Bible.

I never said they weren't.  You're assuming that homosexual acts define homosexuality - they don't.  Homosexuality is a preference, not an act.

Read Leviticus.

Leviticus doesn't condemn homosexual acts, it condemns violation of the first commandment - men having sex with male temple prostitutes of certain other gods.  (The ancient Hebrews believed in many gods, they just worshipped one.  Even as late as Canaan, we find statues of Yahweh's wife and house gods.)

[FrankDK]

> Homosexuality isn't even mentioned in the Bible. Men having sex with men is, but that's not what homosexuality is.

So with whom do homosexual men have sex?  Homosexual women?

With whomever they want.  The definition of "homosexual" isn't "having sex with someone of the same gender".

I think you are either very confused about what homosexuality is, or you are trying to split hairs.

I'm just trying to differentiate between a person being homosexual and a person having homosexual sex.  The two aren't even close to being the same thing.

Yes, they are.  Heterosexual men never have sex with other men.  It's only homosexual men who have sex with other men.  (You can't be serious.)

Homosexual acts are certainly condemned in the Bible.

I never said they weren't.  You're assuming that homosexual acts define homosexuality - they don't.  Homosexuality is a preference, not an act.[/quote]

I was right.  You are splitting hairs.

Read Leviticus.

Leviticus doesn't condemn homosexual acts, it condemns violation of the first commandment - men having sex with male temple prostitutes of certain other gods.  (The ancient Hebrews believed in many gods, they just worshipped one.  Even as late as Canaan, we find statues of Yahweh's wife and house gods.)[/quote]

Lev 20:13: New Living Translation
"If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.

Frank

[Colanth]

> Homosexuality isn't even mentioned in the Bible. Men having sex with men is, but that's not what homosexuality is.

So with whom do homosexual men have sex?  Homosexual women?

With whomever they want.  The definition of "homosexual" isn't "having sex with someone of the same gender".

I think you are either very confused about what homosexuality is, or you are trying to split hairs.

I'm just trying to differentiate between a person being homosexual and a person having homosexual sex.  The two aren't even close to being the same thing.

Yes, they are.  Heterosexual men never have sex with other men.

Tell that to all the heterosexual men who have sex with other men.

It's only homosexual men who have sex with other men.  (You can't be serious.)

Only if you define homosexuality as having sex with those of the same sex.

Homosexual acts are certainly condemned in the Bible.

I never said they weren't.  You're assuming that homosexual acts define homosexuality - they don't.  Homosexuality is a preference, not an act.

I was right.  You are splitting hairs.

That's one huge hair.  You're calling anyone who had sex with someone of the same sex homosexual, when that's not at all what the word means.

Read Leviticus.

Leviticus doesn't condemn homosexual acts, it condemns violation of the first commandment - men having sex with male temple prostitutes of certain other gods.  (The ancient Hebrews believed in many gods, they just worshipped one.  Even as late as Canaan, we find statues of Yahweh's wife and house gods.)

Lev 20:13: New Living Translation
"If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.

That's not what it says in Hebrew.  Anyone can translate it to anything he likes, but that doesn't "back-correct" the original.

You're showing a total lack of scholarship here, Frank.

[Aroura33]

Reading that article was actually kind of sad for me.

"It was hard to explain to a 9-year-old the complexities of why I was telling him that we had to quit," Miller said. "He told me, 'Daddy, it should be like church. Everybody should be welcome.'"

Miller said he then told Cody that the point of going to church is to seek forgiveness — not for being all-inclusive."

What a sweet kid....he gets it.  Jesus supposedly loved everyone dipshit, even your 9 year old understands!
This kid's father is such a tool.

[Minimalist]

If its the former and your kid isn't gay (and therefore isn't really affected at all) then why do you care?

For the same reason that people who are not and/or can never get pregnant are against abortion.  They are meddling busy-bodies because of something written in an absurd book of bullshit a long time ago.

[Johan]

For the same reason that people who are not and/or can never get pregnant are against abortion. They are meddling busy-bodies because of something written in an absurd book of bullshit a long time ago.

True. But the thing is when a busy body protests and abortion clinic, the people who suffer are the patients trying to enter or leave the clinic, i.e. the very people who doing the thing they have a problem with. That at least makes sense on a some small level. When a busy body pulls their own kid out of scouts because there are gays in scouts, the only one who suffers is their own child. That makes no sense at all. Its idiotic but I guess that's pretty obvious.

[stromboli]

Personally I think Scouting has outlived its time, like the institutions that support it. Beforehand it was about acquiring skills and knowledge not readily available locally or within the family. Now, you can watch Bear Grylls on TV and get on the internet to learn virtually anything. Most of Scouting is about merit badges and meetings where activities are performed. Merit badges are skill sets. Camping out is very seasonal- if you go out more than twice a year, it would be rare. And it is heavily dependent on the scout leaders time and effort. It takes a lot of time away from family to do scouting.

[Plu]

I already posted this yesterday, but I guess I have to post it again. I agree with Colanth that there's a big difference between a homosexual and having sex with someone of the same gender.

Answer me honestly if any of these are gay:
- Someone who has sex with another man for a million dollars
- Someone who is raped by another man
- Someone who had sex with another man because he was drunk and curious

Now answer me if any of these are not gay:
- A virgin who is clearly attracted to those of his own gender
-A married man who is just keeping up appearances but would prefer to be with another man

There's more to being gay then bumming someone of the same sex.

[stromboli]

Agreed. Haven't had my coffee yet....

[Atheon]

Let the bigots leave. Scouting is supposed to be about outdoorsmanship, not hate or religion.

[Mister Agenda]

Does the Bible forbid men from having oral sex with other men? It seems quite specific about what kind of sex they're not supposed to have.

And I've heard a rather plausible argument that the OT reference is about male temple prostitutes, a practice of a rival religion.

[Mister Agenda]

Reading that article was actually kind of sad for me.

"It was hard to explain to a 9-year-old the complexities of why I was telling him that we had to quit," Miller said. "He told me, 'Daddy, it should be like church. Everybody should be welcome.'"

Miller said he then told Cody that the point of going to church is to seek forgiveness — not for being all-inclusive."

What a sweet kid....he gets it. Jesus supposedly loved everyone dipshit, even your 9 year old understands!
This kid's father is such a tool.

But his kid has a good chance of being a future atheist.

[Colanth]

Does the Bible forbid men from having oral sex with other men? It seems quite specific about what kind of sex they're not supposed to have

It's not literally specific at all.  It forbids men "lying with" men as they do with women.  But that's as specific as "sleeping with" is.

BTW, most fundies interpret the Bible as forbidding oral sex regardless of who the participants are.  (Except that they get a personal exemption.)

[Minimalist]

When a busy body pulls their own kid out of scouts because there are gays in scouts, the only one who suffers is their own child.

No.  They are trying to destroy the organization by taking their ball and going home.  Its a tad more insidious than you suggest...although personally I don't give a shit about the boy scouts one way or another.  At least the girl scouts sell cookies.

[widdershins]

The Boy Scouts were taken over by the church decades ago anyway.  I had a kid in scouts for part of a year.  I couldn't stomach the religious crap involved with it.  I hated it.  Once I found out atheists weren't welcome I was out the door.  Now they're like the Salvation Army to me.  It's a nice idea in concept, but because of the execution they'll never see another dime of my money.