Author Topic: The true face of Islam  (Read 5360 times)

Re: The true face of Islam
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2016, 11:09:35 AM »
And you think that there aren't any?


I just said, yes this makes sense. There are many in fact.

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Too bad so many can't see the writings on the wall.


I guess there is a difference between 'seeing the writings on the wall' and making interpretations of those 'writings'.

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If one checks the events in Europe objectively, it is crystal clear that the steps in the manifest (and in the Q'ran) are implemented step by step. It is happening right now under our noses. Only because we are not really impacted for now, doesn't mean the problem is non existent.
I am the last to buy into conspiracy theories and hyped up fear. Facts is what I go by. We are spoon fed filtered news 24/7 and think this won't happen to us. Think again. Europe is imploding and we are not affected by it? This will never happen here? Me thinks the tinfoil hat is on many heads already.

I believe that there is danger. Actually very soon it could happen in where I live. And I might even die in the aftermath, I don't see any safe or good future.

As much as it is difficult to get from a Westerner's point, Muslims are not one army ready to march to the West. They are combination of many different cultures, peoples and languages living in poverty and war.

You want me to see one group as an imminent threat in a global scale. How about other fanatic groups that conflicts in benefits and profits with this one? How about other big power zones in the ME and in the West?

These panic and fear is the result of living in a fantasy world BEFORE all these came out. Before, people in certain cultures were living in delusion, because violence in a certain region was contained. And now as it spread the impact of reality is harsh. I have always lived with this sharia fear being born in a muslim country. Seriously since like 18. And people treated me as a crazy pessimist. They are not doing it anymore. And like you, secular people think the same here.

:arrow: Europe is NOT imploding. UK is not living the EU, I could be wrong of course, but I don't think so. Refugees are not invading Europe. USA is not going to be seized by some muslim cult. Calm down.

There is nothing going on in the world that was really different than before 9/11. It's become different for the West, because terrorism has become a part of their daily lives too. It's just the policies has changed; channels of profit has changed. Some have run its course and there is a need of new ones; shifts and this is what we are going through.


Do you know what is the biggest problem in the world? Humans are still breeding. That's the core problem.




Offline reasonist (OP)

Re: The true face of Islam
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2016, 12:16:17 PM »
:arrow: Europe is NOT imploding. UK is not living the EU, I could be wrong of course, but I don't think so. Refugees are not invading Europe. USA is not going to be seized by some muslim cult. Calm down.
Don't be condescending. I am polite, extend the same courtesy to me.
You really think that Muslim hordes would invade the US and conquer? Wow! That is not going to happen. If you read the Hadith, maybe you change your mind. Either way, it matters not to me. I can see it, you can't. Millions of Europeans actually live with the situation I described. Denial is not going to change that.

People breeding is not the biggest problem in the world. Naive and superstitious people breeding is.


Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities
Voltaire

Offline Baruch

Re: The true face of Islam
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2016, 01:17:17 PM »
Too bad we can't emulate Zeus ;-)  He had the goddess of wisdom emerge fully formed from his head ;-))  Think of all the time and money that saves!
שלום

Offline reasonist (OP)

Re: The true face of Islam
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2016, 01:38:00 PM »
Too bad we can't emulate Zeus ;-)  He had the goddess of wisdom emerge fully formed from his head ;-))  Think of all the time and money that saves!
LOL. There is a statue of Athena in front of the Parliament building in Vienna. Didn't and doesn't do much good either. :-))
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities
Voltaire

Re: The true face of Islam
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2016, 01:54:07 PM »
Don't be condescending. I am polite, extend the same courtesy to me.
You really think that Muslim hordes would invade the US and conquer? Wow! That is not going to happen. If you read the Hadith, maybe you change your mind. Either way, it matters not to me. I can see it, you can't. Millions of Europeans actually live with the situation I described. Denial is not going to change that.

People breeding is not the biggest problem in the world. Naive and superstitious people breeding is.

I didn't mean to sound condesceding, I said those because you seem to be in some stupid panic after a stupid book, but you sure do sound condescending. What do you think that you see I or other people don't? I have relatives living in Europe and in the US. What is that described way of living in Europe millions of people suffer?

-15 years ago nobody even knew one thing about muslims.
-10 years ago, nobody had an idea where these people lived in their own cities.
-5 years ago, there was no issue of demograpics or sexual crimes and this and that.

Right now 'suddenly' the fucking end is nigh, everybody is raped in streets, muslims are overflowing from walls and we are about to be devoured by some zombie army.

What the fuck are you talking about, seriously?




Offline reasonist (OP)

Re: The true face of Islam
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2016, 02:01:49 PM »
I didn't mean to sound condesceding, I said those because you seem to be in some stupid panic after a stupid book, but you sure do sound condescending. What do you think that you see I or other people don't? I have relatives living in Europe and in the US. What is that described way of living in Europe millions of people suffer?

-15 years ago nobody even knew one thing about muslims.
-10 years ago, nobody had an idea where these people lived in their own cities.
-5 years ago, there was no issue of demograpics or sexual crimes and this and that.

Right now 'suddenly' the fucking end is nigh, everybody is raped in streets, muslims are overflowing from walls and we are about to be devoured by some zombie army.

What the fuck are you talking about, seriously?




Just making things up. You win.
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities
Voltaire

Re: The true face of Islam
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2016, 02:07:14 PM »
Just making things up. You win.

Oh come on. Really? I never said there is no danger, reasonist. I live in Turkey. May be I'll have to run away to a foreign country soon. I'm the last one here to take this lightly.

But you sound like the western civilisation is about to end in a few decades. :sad2: How can you believe in something like this?



Offline reasonist (OP)

Re: The true face of Islam
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2016, 02:31:39 PM »
Oh come on. Really? I never said there is no danger, reasonist. I live in Turkey. May be I'll have to run away to a foreign country soon. I'm the last one here to take this lightly.

But you sound like the western civilisation is about to end in a few decades. :sad2: How can you believe in something like this?






This video is 8 years old. Double the numbers for 2016
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 02:51:27 PM by reasonist »
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities
Voltaire

Re: The true face of Islam
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2016, 04:16:01 PM »
I have seen similar videos. My observation about this one.

At 4:01 it says that "40 % of Russian army will be Islamic in a few years". Over all among the Western countries counted one by one in the video, it only states the army percentage for Russians. Not one other. Just this is enough which group this video is designed to target.

Also what is 'England' in the video? We call that country UK (of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) Another detail that gives away the target group of propaganda by the way. Have to be said.

German government didn't issue a statemen saying "We'll be an islamic state in 2050", they said Europe failed with population growth...that's how media 'translated' it. Actually all this bullshit started after that statement. These are two different things. [Also as you know what people call ISIL or ISIS the islamic state. (It's obviously used on purpose in the video.) Also islamic republic is used too and I don't get the calculation there.]

All the fertility rates and numbers given end with a statement of 'will be an Islamic state in 2050 or later' with a green islamc flag covering the country in the map. Then it says in 20 years there will be 104 millions of muslim in today's 742.5 million Europe. It will be 2046 20 years later and add that a 4 years to reach 2050, and you think these countries will be Islamic States as in administrated by sharia law in 2050? Are you serious? 

-What will happen to hundreds of millions of European citizens -which will be more than 10 times of the muslim population at that date in EU?
-Their administrations run by Europeans?
 -How many islamic political parties in all over EU? 5? 6? Do you believe that there could be a islamic party that muslims could vote for that could direct these ocuntries? In any level?
- How about the armies? Or any other armed forces in EU.

There is not one thing reasonable about this fear, but obvious propaganda notes. It's not realistic and designed to scare-agitate people. Life will change in 2050? Yeah it will. Probably in 2020 and 2030 too. It was very different where I live 10 years ago.  But Europe becoming a muslim just by demographic growth; human source by 2050 is pretty far fetched.

But if you generally mourn after a defined, certain European culture it has been destroyed and built again many times. Or it can completely perish and there would be new ones. How old is it to begin with? How old is written history to begin with? Yeah probably the world will be very different place after a 100 years from now.

But Europe being an 'islamic state' 50 years later or much later is an irrational fear.

If the economy starts getting better in the EU; if the desired slices are distributed as wanted you won't even hear about this refugee crisis again or how Europe is imploding until it is made an issue again for politics.


By the way, some video rates are different in eurostat chart.

France 1.8 -EU Chart is 2.01
England 1.6 - Chart (UK) 1.81
Germany 1.47 -Chart 1.3
Italya - 1.2 -Chart 1.32
Spain -1.1 - Chart 1.32




« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 04:28:29 PM by drunkenshoe »

Offline reasonist (OP)

Re: The true face of Islam
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2016, 05:27:19 PM »
So many wrongs, so little time. Here are the #s from the German govmnt. office of statistics:

https://www.destatis.de/EN/PressServices/Press/pr/2012/09/PE12_329_12612.html

Naturally your sources must be more reliable than the German govmnt.

"Meanwhile, the migration crisis shows no sign of abating. At a summit on migration held in Vienna on August 27, the EU Commissioner for European Neighbourhood Policy and Enlargement Negotiations, Johannes Hahn, said: "There are 20 million refugees waiting at the doorstep of Europe. Ten to 12 million in Syria, 5 million Palestinians, 2 million Ukrainians and about 1 million in the southern Caucasus."

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6423/germany-muslim-demographic

Germany: Muslim migrants linked to 69,000 crimes in first three months of 2016
Belgium: 35% of prison population is Muslim, who make up only 6% of population
Sweden: 2015 Muslim hordes to cost 14x the National Defence budget
Germany: Merkel Muslim crimes increased by 79% in 2015, or 208,344 incidents
UK: Muslims fill 44% of high security prisons, out of a 5% Muslim population
35 million Muslim migrants set sights on Europe

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/page/6/

This is my last post on the subject. Quite frankly, I give two fucks what you believe. I am not here to convince you, just stating facts. Inconvenient maybe, but facts nevertheless. You can learn from them or ignore them. Makes no difference to me.
G'day

Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities
Voltaire

Offline Baruch

Re: The true face of Islam
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2016, 06:19:58 PM »
Your 'disdain' against America trembles me to my core, Baruch. And I am just writing this to protect other posters who might read your posts!

:lol:

Natural result of dependence.  Marshall Plan and Nato served a purpose 1946 - 1991.  But it should be over now.  There was talk way back before 1991, that aside from being the future battlefield carnage ... the Europeans weren't pulling their own weight, and sucking up to Moscow too much.  The current policy of insulting and challenging the Russians, would be bad enough if it was just the US what was doing it ... but what the hell are the Europeans thinking!  Maybe the Czar's army needs to arrive in Paris once again, like in 1814.

So do I think that the US is powerful or wonderful?  Hardly.  We have gone straight to hell in a hand basket since 1965.  I would like the Europeans better, if they hadn't decided to go all stupid on us.
שלום

Re: The true face of Islam
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2016, 03:54:54 AM »
This is my last post on the subject. Quite frankly, I give two fucks what you believe. I am not here to convince you, just stating facts. Inconvenient maybe, but facts nevertheless. You can learn from them or ignore them. Makes no difference to me.
G'day

Nobody is here to convince anyone. If you don't know that you do not understand general characteristics of this forum, actually people in general. People share their opinions and when conflicted defend them naturally. And it doesn't make any difference for any of us. Nobody is here to learn anything. Neither you, nor do I have some superior take on the issues.

But if you define a half wit right wing propaganda video designed to agitate a certain society in the world as 'facts', I'll call on your bullshit.

It's very simple, really. If the world runs on the scenario given in 5 mins right wing propaganda of the western apocalypse, may be it's about time humanity should close shop. Yeah. Well, No.   



Re: The true face of Islam
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2016, 03:57:53 AM »
Natural result of dependence.  Marshall Plan and Nato served a purpose 1946 - 1991.  But it should be over now.  There was talk way back before 1991, that aside from being the future battlefield carnage ... the Europeans weren't pulling their own weight, and sucking up to Moscow too much.  The current policy of insulting and challenging the Russians, would be bad enough if it was just the US what was doing it ... but what the hell are the Europeans thinking!  Maybe the Czar's army needs to arrive in Paris once again, like in 1814.

So do I think that the US is powerful or wonderful?  Hardly.  We have gone straight to hell in a hand basket since 1965.  I would like the Europeans better, if they hadn't decided to go all stupid on us.

I was joking with writing what Nonsensei wrote to me because I keep criticising US. :lol:


Re: The true face of Islam
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2016, 05:06:56 AM »
I was reading the links reasonist posted. I wondered about this Gatestone Institute.

It's a privately funded far right wing 'think-tank' apparently it is an offshoot of the Hudson Inst. which is another far right inst. Looking into Gatestone, the institution follows a typical extreme right wing rhetoric which supported by the majority in the US. :lol: Yeah well, surprising? Of course not. Bunch of rich people trying to hold on to the ideology AND the made up fears of policies of profit that fucked up their counrty sideways along with the world to begin with trying to brainwash how the end is niiiigh.

The founder of Gatestone Inst, Nina Rosenwald is described as "The Sugar Mama of Anti-Muslim Hate" -lol- by the Nation. https://www.thenation.com/article/sugar-mama-anti-muslim-hate/

Right Web link:
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/gatestone_institute/

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The Gatestone Institute is a New York-based advocacy organization that is tied to neoconservative and other right-wing networks in the United States and Europe.[1] Chaired by John Bolton, a former Bush administration diplomat and a conservative foreign policy hardliner, Gatestone is a clearinghouse for right-wing commentaries on national security, the Middle East, and Islam, as well as a convener of high-dollar events on security and energy issues. It is an offshoot of the neoconservative Hudson Institute.

The institute was founded in 2011 by Nina Rosenwald, an heiress of the Sears Roebuck empire who has been a key philanthropic backer of anti-Muslim groups and individuals in the United States. Describing Gatestone’s origins, journalist Max Blumenthal writes: “Through her affiliation with the Washington-based Hudson Institute, where Norman Podhoretz is an adjunct fellow, Rosenwald established a branch of the think tank in New York City. Operating under the Hudson banner, Rosenwald brought [the controversial anti-Islam Dutch politician Geert Wilders] to town in 2008 to warn against the Muslim plot to ‘rule the world by the sword.’ Wilders’s tirade during that visit against the prophet Muhammad, whom he described as ‘a warlord, a mass murderer, a pedophile,’ was strident even by the standards of the hawkish Hudson Institute. By 2011 … Rosenwald separated Hudson New York City from Hudson’s national branch, changing her organization’s name to the Gatestone Institute.”[2]


Among its activities, the institute holds what it calls “Briefing Council events," which have included talks by Walid Phares, Charles Krauthammer, Andrew McCarthy, Elliott Abrams, William Kristol, and a host of other well-known right wingers and Gatestone principals.[3] Among its past have been a presentation by Zuhdi Jasser on the “battle for the soul of Islam”; a talk by former CIA director James Woolsey titled “War on America”; a presentation in which Geert Wilders called Islam a "violent ideology that wants to impose Islamic Sharia law on the whole world";[4] and a 2014 event featuring Woolsey, former General David Petraeus, right-wing videographer James O'Keefe, and a host of conservative activists extolling the virtues of "fracking" for natural gas and oil.[5] A notice on Gatestone's website, which has since been removed, described the events as “invitation only, exclusively for our members,” with a "minimum donation of $10,000 required for participation."[6]

Gatestone’s other activities include red-carpet events for personalities like Wilders and policy briefings by sympathetic speakers. The institute has also announced plans to publish books. But the bulk of the organization’s day-to-day output consists of blog posts by Gatestone fellows and likeminded writers offering neoconservative commentary on current events and alarmist dispatches about the spread of Islam. Frequent topics include Israeli security, purported Palestinian malfeasance, Iran’s nuclear enrichment program, and the supposed threat of Sharia law in Europe and North America.

Commentaries

Many of Gatestone's commentaries offer standard neoconservative tropes urging a more forceful and aggressive U.S. foreign policy. An April 2014 offering from Elliott Abrams, for example, complained that the Obama administration's foreign policy "really is the foreign policy of Belgium: negotiations, negotiations, negotiations. … What is missing in this formulation? In one word: power." Referring to President Barack Obama and his past affiliations with figures commonly vilified by his Republican critics, Abrams added, "This is the man who learned foreign policy from Rashid Khalidi and William Ayers and Jeremiah Wright. The habits [to be broken], as the Administration might see them, are 'militarism,' 'aggression,' 'Cold War thinking' and an alleged effort to dominate the world, 'Imperialism'—or what many others might call patriotism."[7] Other Gatestone posts have urged a second military intervention in Libya[8] and inveighed against a diplomatic agreement over Iran's nuclear program.[9]

Gatestone contributors often espouse views associated with the far right. Posts by Gatestone writers have alleged an impending "Islamic takeover" in the United Kingdom,[10] warned that France is on the verge of "submitting to Islam,"[11] fretted that “Islamic Sharia law could easily become a permanent reality in Spain and across the [European] continent,”[12] and accused the U.S. government of "promoting Islam" in the Czech Republic and other European countries.[13] In a 2014 posting, Gatestone fellow Soeren Kern quoted Geert Wilders' quip, seemingly approvingly, that "The fewer Moroccans [in the Netherlands], the better." Kern claimed that "Dutch Moroccan criminals are known to be highly indifferent to sentences in Dutch prisons," concluding that "it is only the threat of deportation, more than any other measure, that is likely to deter young Moroccans from a life of crime."[14]

Kern, who authors the Gatestone Institute’s annual reports on the “Islamization of France,” also took a hyper alarmist tone after the January 2015 attack on the French satirical newspaper, Charlie Hebdo. “The situation is out of control, and it is not reversible.” Kern said of France. “Islam is a permanent part of France now. It is not going away. I think the future looks very bleak.”[15]

Gatestone's writers take a hard line on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, harshly criticizing Palestinian negotiators and political authorities and offering support to Israel's right-wing government. When Israel pulled out of U.S.-brokered talks after Hamas and Fatah reached a tentative reconciliation in April 2014, Gatestone contributor Richard Kamp asserted that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu "had no choice other than to suspend the peace process. … How could he possibly continue to negotiate with an entity that is itself negotiating with a vicious, murderous and unrelenting terrorist group hell-bent on the destruction of Israel and outlawed around the world?"[16]

Observers generally credited an Israeli refusal to release certain Palestinian prisoners as part of an agreed upon prisoner exchange, as well as a general Israeli intransigence of settlement construction and other final-status issues, as major factors in the demise of the talks. But Gatestone writers were adamant that the Palestinian Authority, which was created by an agreement with Israel, was to blame. "The Palestinian Authority [PA], meant to be the 'partner' for peace, seems incapable of giving up on the culture of violence, death and anti-Semitism which has always been its trademark," claimed Gatestone senior fellow Douglas Murray. Although the PA's leaders had long recognized Israel's right to exist, and even though many Israeli coalition partners were openly hostile to the creation of a Palestinian state, Murray claimed that "the PA seems no closer than their forebears were in 1948 to recognizing the legitimacy of a Jewish state in the historic homeland of the Jewish people."[17]

After the failure of the 2014 Israeli-Palestinian peace talks, Friends of Israel Initiative member Richard Kempan wrote an op-ed for the Gatestone Institute criticizing efforts to reach a two-state solution. “The stark military reality is that Israel cannot withdraw its forces from the West Bank—either now or at any point in the foreseeable future,” Kemp wrote. “There can be no two state solution and no sovereign Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan, however desirable those things might be.”[18]

Kemp added: “Nor can there be a one-state solution with democratic rights for all because that would spell the end of the one and only democratic and Jewish state and the beginning of a new autocracy and the next exodus of the Jews. For those who do not want that to happen, the harsh reality is continuation of the status quo.”[19]

Gatestone writers have been particularly hostile towards the "Boycott, Divest, and Sanction" (BDS) movement, a nonviolent campaign organized by Palestinian civil society groups and their supporters to pressure Israel to end its occupation of Palestinian territories—in part by urging international cultural figures to refrain from visiting Israel or collaborating with Israeli-financed cultural and academic institutions. In one exceptionally bombastic post, Gatestone senior fellow Denis MacEoin accused BDS campaigners of genocidal ambitions. "This BDS campaign against Israel is dishonest," he wrote. "It tells less than half of a complex story, borrowing Palestinian lies and fables to bewitch unthinking Westerners whose only formula for peace lies in the destruction of the only national home for the Jews, possibly as well as the post-Nazi destruction of the Jews themselves." Drawing a straight line from boycott to Holocaust, MacEoin added, "The Nazis invented the Jewish Boycott, and went on from there to the Holocaust." BDS, he concluded of the nonviolent movement, "supports and rewards whoever works—often through violence—to abolish the state of Israel and then possibly the rest of the Jews."[20]

In November 2014, Gatestone published an article from Alan Dershowitz arguing for more congressional intervention in the on-going nuclear negotiations with Iran. “Congress plainly has the power to refuse to reduce sanctions and indeed to strengthen them,” Dershowtiz stated, echoing comments from a host of other neoconservatives and hardliners. “Congress should demand a role in the ongoing negotiations with Iran.”[21] Many analysts have argued that greater intervention in the talks by Congress, particularly through imposing additional sanctions on Iran, would scuttle the entire negotiating process.[22]

Leadership and Funding

Gatestone’s president is Nina Rosenwald. Its board, as of 2014, included chairman John Bolton, Georgette Gelbard, Zuhdi Jasser, Lawrence Kadish, Douglas Murray, Naomi Perlman, Ingebord Rennert (spouse of the controversial junk bond investor Ira Rennert), Rebecca Sugar, and Christine Williams. Its European board of governors includes chairman Amir Taheri, Josef Josse, and Anne-Elisabeth Moutet.[23]

Gatestone's senior fellows include Arab Israeli journalist Khaled Abu Toameh, European scholars Soeren Kern and Guy Millière, and former Pentagon official Harold Rode, among several others. Amhed Charai, Petra Heidt, Elie Weisel, and former chairman James Woolsey are listed as advisers.[24] At one point Gatestone also listed “Fjordman” as a distinguished scholar,[25] using the pseudonym for Peder Jensen, a far-right Norwegian blogger whose writings were featured in the manifesto of mass-murderer Anders Breivik.[26]

GateStone's website lists dozens of other contributing authors, including foreign policy hawks like Elliott Abrams, Anne Bayefsky, Kenneth Timmerman, MEMRI president Yigal Carmon, Alan Dershowitz, Steven Emerson, former Pentagon official Doug Feith, neoconservative firebrand David Horowitz, Hudson Institute president Herbert London, the right-wing NGO Monitor, Daniel Pipes, Emergency Committee for Israel spokesman Noah Pollak, former AIPAC director Steven Rosen, American Enterprise Institute fellow Michael Rubin, Natan Sharansky, Foundation for Defense of Democracies fellow Lee Smith, and anti-Islamic writer Robert Spencer.[27]

Gatestone reported approximately $1.4 million on its 2013 Form 990.[28]

Offline Baruch

Re: The true face of Islam
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2016, 12:00:37 AM »
Bolton is a psychopath, like most of the neoCons.  It is a wonder, after 8 years of Shrub, we aren't dead yet.  Unfortunately, R-wing is the default position of most societies in most times in history ... because status quo equals conservative politics.  Most people don't benefit from change, when only 1/10 are successful, and 9/10 lose their shirt in the course of the social experiment.
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