Author Topic: "Scientific Foreknowledge" in the Bible  (Read 4994 times)

"Scientific Foreknowledge" in the Bible
« on: June 18, 2016, 03:04:47 PM »
So someone (internet creationist) tried to convince me that there was "scientific foreknowledge" in the Bible and presented these scriptures as evidence for why scripture was centuries ahead of the rest of mankind.

"There is plenty of scientific foreknowledge in the bible.
1) Air has weight. Job 28:25. Mans discovery, 16th century. http://biblehub.com/job/28-25.htm

2) The earth is round. Isaiah 40:22. Mans discovery, 15th century. http://biblehub.com/isaiah/40-22.htm

3) Oceans have natural paths in them. Psalms 8:8. Mans discovery, 1854. http://biblehub.com/psalms/8-8.htm

4) Water cycle. Ecclesiastes 1:7. Mans discovery, 17th century. http://biblehub.com/ecclesiastes/1-7.htm

5) Life originated in the sea. Genesis 1. Mans discovery, 19th century. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1

6) Infinite number of stars exist. Genesis 15:5. Mans discovery, 1940. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+15:5

7) Earth was in nebular form initially. Genesis 1:2. Mans discovery, 1911. And on & on. I am not sure what you are asking about dinosaurs, ancient primates and long dead sea relatives. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1-2

-Two types of dinosaurs are mentioned in the bible. Job 40:15-24, And the key verse here is "He moveth his tail like a cedar tree". God is talking to Job here about a living animal that Job is familiar with. What land creatures have tails like cedar trees? And there are plenty of other verses describing a dinosaur, also a sea monster, or behemoth. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job+40:15-24
" ~ Anonymous

I of course disagreed and we had an interesting discussion on the validity of flat earth, origin of life in the sea, mysterious extinction of dinosaurs, hypocrisy and the water cycle.

I've heard this argument before instead used to justify the Qu'ran (which adds a few different scriptures and translations). What do you guys think of "science" in the Bible?
"To have faith is to lose your mind and to win God."
-The Sickness unto Death - 1849

Online Hydra009

Re: "Scientific Foreknowledge" in the Bible
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2016, 03:42:30 PM »
There's plenty of science in the bible if you squint really hard and fudge the translation a lot.  The same technique could be used on basically anything to "uncover" plenty of amazing predictions, not unlike what people do with Nostradamus.

There's also plenty of science that the Bible gets wrong.  For example, the Bible describes the moon as shining, which of course isn't technically true, but it'd sure seem that way to an ancient goat-herder.  It's interested to note that what the goat-herder gets wrong, God also gets wrong.  Christians were famously resistant to the idea of heliocentrism.  Germ theory, atomism, and genetics were also unknown to the bible writers - which makes sense from an atheistic standpoint, but makes little sense from a Christian standpoint, where the bible writers are allegedly taking godly dictation.

I can't speak to most of those quotes, but the Bible frequently talks about the "corners of the world" so it's unlikely the Bible presaged the modern understanding of the Earth as approximately spherical.  In fact, this was the ancient Hebrew conception of the world:



Also, Behemoth could just as easily describe an elephant or hippo.  The "tail that moves like a cedar" part could refer to a very different sort of tail, if you know what I mean...
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 03:55:52 PM by Hydra009 »

Online aitm

Re: "Scientific Foreknowledge" in the Bible
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2016, 09:41:04 PM »
meh, the same babble also says that 1/3rd of the stars were flung to the earth….twice…so….I kinda think some crap shooting is gonna hit some crap once in a while.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Johan

Re: "Scientific Foreknowledge" in the Bible
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2016, 10:40:37 AM »
Your internet creationist friend should consider going to work on a cherry farm.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false and by the rulers as useful

Re: "Scientific Foreknowledge" in the Bible
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2016, 01:03:23 PM »
It's interesting how fast people jump to the conclusion that they must be correct despite blatant conjectural methods and confirmation bias. Dissecting arguments isn't difficult as they almost exclusively make no sense but discussing fact over fiction is where people get offended. At one point this guy starts ranting about how all translations must be literal and then two seconds later he's trying to claim metaphorical poetry. Like you could at least be fair in our discussions.
"To have faith is to lose your mind and to win God."
-The Sickness unto Death - 1849

Re: "Scientific Foreknowledge" in the Bible
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2016, 12:32:47 PM »
You have to read the Bible in a very special way to find real meaning in it.  Essentially, you put your brain on autopilot as you read (the only way the Bible can be read for long periods of time, especially the "begat" section) and set your brain's alarm to wake you up if it finds something which "proves" you're right and to put you extra asleep if you find anything which goes against what you believe.
This sentence is a lie...

Re: "Scientific Foreknowledge" in the Bible
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2016, 01:14:06 PM »
You have to read the Bible in a very special way to find real meaning in it.  Essentially, you put your brain on autopilot as you read (the only way the Bible can be read for long periods of time, especially the "begat" section) and set your brain's alarm to wake you up if it finds something which "proves" you're right and to put you extra asleep if you find anything which goes against what you believe.
Kent Hovind said you needed to put on "your God glasses."
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline SGOS

Re: "Scientific Foreknowledge" in the Bible
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2016, 01:21:34 PM »
There's so much written in the Bible that it's bound to say some things that can be construed and twisted to sound like a prediction or an understanding of scientific discoveries.  It's a combination of a broken clock showing the right time twice a day, some fudged interpretation, and a lot of cherry picking.

I used to think about similarities between Bible dogma and what was actually known about science, and think, "Maybe that's what they meant," but even when I was a Christian, I realized my thinking was more like reaching, and I certainly didn't take my brain farts seriously.

Re: "Scientific Foreknowledge" in the Bible
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2016, 02:01:01 PM »
especially the "begat" section
I have read the section aloud as a preacher would. It's bizarrely entertaining.

Re: "Scientific Foreknowledge" in the Bible
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2016, 02:45:32 PM »
I have read the section aloud as a preacher would. It's bizarrely entertaining.
Should be done by a Norwegian death metal group.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: "Scientific Foreknowledge" in the Bible
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2016, 03:27:54 PM »
Should be done by a Norwegian death metal group.

Dunno about Norwegian, but skip to 4:23:

"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Re: "Scientific Foreknowledge" in the Bible
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2016, 03:33:04 PM »
So Jesus WAS Joseph's son?
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Online aitm

Re: "Scientific Foreknowledge" in the Bible
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2016, 09:35:12 PM »
The babble makes perfect sense if one is completely fucking drunk. Some times it is still a challenge, but once you agree with it, the drunk just makes it more perfect.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Re: "Scientific Foreknowledge" in the Bible
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2016, 09:44:58 PM »
Wow - ancient peoples may have made some - a handful - of vaguely correct guesses about the Universe!

The human being depends upon intuition for its very survival. Wow! So, a few correct guesses were made by a few of the parchment scratchers of yore. Big deal! The same could be said for any carnival palm reader. Do we now want to plump for what an accurate oracle palm reading is?

That one pile of moldy old scribblings could hold humanity to such ransom is in itself beyond belief ...
OMNIA DEPENDET ...

Offline Baruch

Re: "Scientific Foreknowledge" in the Bible
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2016, 07:12:36 AM »
The illiterate considered writing to be magical.  And back then almost everyone was illiterate.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ ła’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't to that.