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Started by AspiringParagon, March 29, 2013, 02:25:18 AM

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AspiringParagon

:shock:  This guy seems to think that condoms are evil. Literally, he has said this. He also seems to think that the CDC is covering up the "condom lie". I Googled this and the CDC has plenty of info supporting the usage of condoms and its effectiveness. Even the FDA chimes in with an A-Ok. He is claiming that not only do contraceptives not help against disease, but they are also destroying culture. This guy is a lunatic.  :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNZ9dR5p ... re=mh_lolz

http://www.vericast.net/blog/2013/03/19 ... n-culture/

Hydra009

Before I even clicked the link, I thought to myself, "Probly a Catholic".  Sure enough...

ApostateLois

Yep, a Catholitard. Dumber than the average Christian.
"Now we see through a glass dumbly." ~Crow, MST3K #903, "Puma Man"

Solitary

:-s  I wonder how he'll think about what he said when over population has everyone starving to death and no unpolluted water to drink. The number one problem in the world is too many people, and almost every other problem is caused by that. Condoms are evil? Too bad his dad didn't use them.  :shock:   8-)  

QuoteYep, a Catholitard. Dumber than the average Christian.
Well at least they don't burn crosses in people's yards here in Arizona like the Methodist do, or come to your door trying to shove their dogma down your throat like others do.  :P   Bill
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

daddattack

Quote from: "ApostateLois"Yep, a Catholitard. Dumber than the average Christian.

I actually find them to be more intelligent overall, which is scary because it lets them create so many mental hoola-hoops and circular logic...plus, in religious debates, they have the weight of records and "tradition" on their side when they start to argue with the protestants. The average protestant Christian I think is just ignorant to a lot, so they aren't quite as dangerous.... sometimes.  :evil:  :evil:

stromboli

Condoms (non lubricated) are useful in a survival kit for several reasons, including a collapsible emergency water container. Buy the Magnum size and keep a few on hand. If nothing else, might accidentally impress your girl friend.  :-D

(edit) I watched the video. My brain is a little bit smaller now.

Colanth

Easier to waterproof wooden matches by keeping them in a tied condom than by waxing them.  They're also good for keeping stored tools from rusting.
Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
Science builds skyscrapers, faith flies planes into them.

stromboli

Quote from: "Colanth"Easier to waterproof wooden matches by keeping them in a tied condom than by waxing them.  They're also good for keeping stored tools from rusting.

Right. You can also make instant fire starters by taking a condom and stuffing it with dryer lint. Keeps completely dry and lights very quickly, even on wet days.

Aupmanyav

Quote from: "Hydra009"Before I even clicked the link, I thought to myself, "Probly a Catholic".  Sure enough...
At least, with the catholics, it is a debate. In islam, it is a statute.
"Brahma Satyam Jagan-mithya" (Brahman is the truth, the observed is an illusion)
"Sarve Khalu Idam Brahma" (All this here is Brahman)

Colanth

I said it before (and it's probably in the Great Backup in the Sky) - it used to be a stature with the Catholics.  Christianity is a lot older than Islam.  You can't expect an ignored child to show the restraint of a well-beaten adult, restrained in chains.
Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
Science builds skyscrapers, faith flies planes into them.

daddattack

The difference is only like 300-400 years, to be fair.

Colanth

The RCC stopped killing people a while ago, but that's only because governments wouldn't allow them to.  Those same governments won't allow Moslems to go around killing people.

But the RCC still thinks its rules should apply to everyone and no one else's rules should apply to its members, so I'm not holding my breath waiting for Moslems to grow up first.
Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
Science builds skyscrapers, faith flies planes into them.

macmania

Quote from: "AspiringParagon":shock:  This guy seems to think that condoms are evil. Literally, he has said this. He also seems to think that the CDC is covering up the "condom lie". I Googled this and the CDC has plenty of info supporting the usage of condoms and its effectiveness. Even the FDA chimes in with an A-Ok. He is claiming that not only do contraceptives not help against disease, but they are also destroying culture. This guy is a lunatic.  :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNZ9dR5p ... re=mh_lolz

http://www.vericast.net/blog/2013/03/19 ... n-culture/

He's actually right. The CDC was disclosing theoretical failure rates at least back in 2000/2001. I worked for an advertising firm that managed, and did media buys for their their condom awareness campaigns.
You googled "is the CDC covering up condom failure rates"?  Does that sound like it should make any sense to you?  Have you looked at his sources? Have you taken the time to base your rejection on actual personal research?  I fell into advertising. I actually went to school for sociology.  Personally the video that grabbed my attention was right here http://www.vericast.net/condomnation/
There was also another that I can't find now, and I also read that blog you posted a link to, and another one he has, which I have bookmarked someplace. But that video I just linked got my attention because I expected to listen to a rambling loon but what I was hearing was actually sound sociological methodology.  Then I looked at his sources to see if I could make the same conclusions based on his own sources, and to see if I could find holes in his conclusions using his own research. His rationale held up. Really well actually.  That got me interested. Then I read the blog posts and saw the other video. That all had me extra intrigued because like I said it didn't sound like a rambling loon. Again and again he was using actual sociological methodology in his assertions and in his logical testing.  Here was the real mind blower for me though. Where his argument isn't supported well enough, he discloses that. No one does that when they're lying. No one sees the limits of their own argument when they're just looking to prove a point that can't be proven. It's logically impossible first of all, and it doesn't help a person's credibility.  And liars want to be credible.  If people are lying they try to white wash the imperfections in their arguments, or they just pull out those parts of their arguments completely. Or because they're lying they don't even see the imperfections of their own argument.  He sees them. Which means he's testing his rationale/claim.  It all seemed like honest scholarship to me instead of a conn.   It intrigued me enough to start doing some of my own research as my time allows. After a couple of months of broken up time so far I'm not finding much that refutes his conclusion. In looking for negations, I'm actually stumbling on more supportive data. Census numbers, unplanned pregnancy elevation, infection elevation, correlation with independent condom distribution figures, findings from health oversight committees, and so on.
Its your right to disagree with him. But it sounds to me like your opinion isn't worth much.  This so called catholictard is actually making sense. No one could say what he's saying, and say it the way he's saying it, structure it the way he's structuring it and also disclose his own rhetorical weaknesses if they never did actual sociological study and research.  All of that stuff is very technical sociological monologue. To ordinary people it probably just sounds like talking.  To someone who has a background in sociology it sounds like business talk that only Socios can identify when they hear it.  That was another thing that made him seem more credible than crazy to me.  Also the fact that he sounded pretty informed, beyond the references he was offering.
So anyway it's your right to disagree. But you're basing your opinion only on what people tell you, and only if they tell you something you already agree with. You just sound like you're babbling. Which actually was what I expected from him when I found his video. Ironic.
For the record I'm not even a catholic I'm a born again agnostic lol. But I know good sense and reason when I hear it. Which makes me wonder how much more the catholics have right. Which is scary.
I live in New York so I have access to really good libraries in doing my own research. But even if you live in a small town you should be just a short drive away from a major library.  You should put it to use.

stromboli

1. You seriously need to work on your spacing, paragraphing and punctuation because your text block is difficult to read.

2. You maintain that you have found "more supportive data" but not provided any, or any links.

One sample of contradictory data from a link:
http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/publications/416
QuoteSexual transmission of HIV occurs when infected semen, vaginal, or other body fluids contact mucosal surfaces, such as the male urethra, the vagina, or cervix.[2] According to the Centers for Disease Control & Prevention (CDC), a number of carefully conducted studies, employing rigorous methods and measures, have demonstrated that consistent condom use is highly effective in preventing HIV transmission.[1,2]
In a two-year study of sero-discordant couples (in which one partner was HIV-positive and one was HIV-negative), no uninfected partner became infected among couples using condoms correctly and consistently at every act of vaginal or anal sex versus 10 percent of those using condoms inconsistently.[1,6]
In a similar two-year study, two percent of uninfected partners who used condoms consistently became HIV-infected versus 12 percent among those who used condoms inconsistently or not at all.[1]
A recent study of declining HIV prevalence in Uganda found no evidence that abstinence or monogamy had contributed to the decline. Findings identified the increased use of condoms in casual relationships as important in Uganda's declining HIV infection rates.[7]

Seriously. You'll have to do better than that to win any arguments. I am very confident that the vast preponderance of evidence not only supports condom usage, but also condom level of quality as well. If you want to argue the issue, better come up with some supporting sources.

Plu

I've read some of the articles that are used as sources in your blog, and they basically all come down to the same thing: they all assume abortions are horrible, contraception leads to "immoral sex" which is wrong, a culture based around sexual freedom is a bad thing, and the idea that things used to be better.

The problem is that none of these things are actually bad, and it didn't used to be better. It's nice to give graphs that show a rise in abortions, but I don't buy that more abortions is neccesarily a bad thing. The alternative to an abortion is an unwanted child. That is a bad thing. In effect, every abortion done means one less unwanted child, which will later probably turn into another poor excuse for a human being.

Likewise; the "consistent" failure rate of birth control is still very low if applied properly; what you're seeing is mostly poor sexual education combined with the false promise that poorly applied birth control is still realiable combined with people have much more sex because of it. If you compare abortion numbers for other western countries, you'll see that the number in the US are really bad. I'm not sure how much of your research time you've devoted to figuring out why that is, but I'm willing to bet that resistance to contraception and sex ed are involved heavily. The Netherlands has an abortion rate that has been mostly stable for the past 40 years, and it's about 75% lower than that in the US, and around the lowest rate of teenage pregnancy in the world. And we also happen to have a culture that is really open about sex and provides excellent sexual education.

So there lies the crux in your argument. Your proof might be sound, but the thing you're trying to prove isn't objective enough to make the proof worth anything to someone who simply disagrees that your ideal view of the world is one worth striving for. And the evidence shows that if you stop thinking sex is a bad thing and simply embrace it as part of the human condition and teach it for what it is, most of the bad statistics you mention also go away. It seems to be US prude culture that's causing these numbers to go out of whack, and you're advocating for it.