The decline of christian faith in the US

[Mike Cl]

Depends, does Macarther's Park condone LGBT PDA? To the extend, they don't mind them making love in the park at night?

Note: Jesus and the apostles could be moaning like wolves while making love though. Honestly, if you were the owner of the park, would you allow it?

Macarther Park was a hit song of the late 60's early 70's.  Google it; I liked it--still do; all 22 min. of it.

[Pipu.Diiding]

Macarther Park was a hit song of the late 60's early 70's.  Google it; I liked it--still do; all 22 min. of it.

Hahahahha 20 mins
Probably Jesus will be jumping on his apostles for 22mins.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Now I'm reminded of "Bolero" from the movie "10".

[stromboli]

Now I'm reminded of "Bolero" from the movie "10".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dILIdREylC0

[Gawdzilla Sama]

My wife asked me if I thought Derrick was a "10". I was wise enough to say "Honey, you're the only 10 I know of."

[widdershins]

My wife asked me if I thought Derrick was a "10". I was wise enough to say "Honey, you're the only 10 I know of."

They know your lying, but it doesn't matter so long as you gave the correct response.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

They know your lying, but it doesn't matter so long as you gave the correct response.

You get "Husband Points", which are redeemable for ... Well, you know.

I once told her that Rachel Weisz (in "The Mummy") reminded me of her, only Rachel was not so pretty as she was. It was true after a fashion.

[Duncle]

The decline of Christianity and rise of Atheism isn't just an American phenomenon. It is happening in Europe too, and is actually more advanced here (I live in the UK, so "here" is Europe). At the same time, the remaining Christians are tending more and more towards fundamentalism. In the UK, evangelical Christianity hardly existed 30 years ago; it is more prominent now, although nothing like the American situation.

In my view, these two things are linked. There are essentially 3 positions on the relationship between Science and Religion:
1. Fundamentalism: Religion and Science contradict each other. Religion is true, and thus large sectors of Science (most of Biology, Geology, Astronomy etc) are necessarily false.
2. Atheism: Religion and Science contradict each other, and Religion is false.
3. Moderate/ "Compatibilist" Theism: Religion and Science don't contradict each other. Apparent contradictions can be resolved, usually by re-interpreting religious texts.

Traditionally, the third position is the one that has been dominant throughout the West. However, this position is imho unstable and ultimately unviable. And the reason for this is that Science and Religion really are in contradiction. As Science has advanced, that contradiction has only become more obvious.

Perhaps, then, what we are seeing is the beginning of the end for moderate Christianity.

[stromboli]

The decline of Christianity and rise of Atheism isn't just an American phenomenon. It is happening in Europe too, and is actually more advanced here (I live in the UK, so "here" is Europe). At the same time, the remaining Christians are tending more and more towards fundamentalism. In the UK, evangelical Christianity hardly existed 30 years ago; it is more prominent now, although nothing like the American situation.

In my view, these two things are linked. There are essentially 3 positions on the relationship between Science and Religion:
1. Fundamentalism: Religion and Science contradict each other. Religion is true, and thus large sectors of Science (most of Biology, Geology, Astronomy etc) are necessarily false.
2. Atheism: Religion and Science contradict each other, and Religion is false.
3. Moderate/ "Compatibilist" Theism: Religion and Science don't contradict each other. Apparent contradictions can be resolved, usually by re-interpreting religious texts.

Traditionally, the third position is the one that has been dominant throughout the West. However, this position is imho unstable and ultimately unviable. And the reason for this is that Science and Religion really are in contradiction. As Science has advanced, that contradiction has only become more obvious.

Perhaps, then, what we are seeing is the beginning of the end for moderate Christianity.

A lot of it has to do with how the media exploits the issue for newsworthiness. The nastier the conflict the more news it generates. By polarizing issues- a Rupert Murdoch specialty- you get more controversy and generate more ratings. People like Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and Glen Back didn't exist in the 60s and 70s.

And the fundies are screaming louder because less people are listening. The fact that their target audience is among less educated members of society creates instances of moms with 12 kids marching through Target waving a bible in the air. All of this is largely a replay of the early 60's and the racial segregation issues of that time. The same people are making the same threats and waving the same book in the air.

Oh and welcome to the forum.

[reasonist]

Welcome to the forum, Duncle.

Scandinavian countries do very well with more than half of the population declared atheists or non religious. Europe in general is more advanced in terms of religiosity. Yet, half the people in the US believe the earth is 6,000 years old and we rode dinosaurs for fun. But the landscape is changing. The latest polls indicate that over 20% of the population in the US is non religious; that's over 60 million people and increasing fast. The steady hammer blows of science, especially of the last 200 years have made any argument for scripture obsolete at best, irrational at worst.
The question is, can we evolve fast enough to shed ancient superstition before we exterminate each other? Personally I am skeptical; our stone age brains need explanations for things we don't have answers yet, even if they are false. Any explanation is better than none, and as a bonus the pious can look forward to an infinite life of milk and honey after they pass on. It's hard to beat false consolation and wish thinking. The only way to speed up the change to logic and reason is education, especially for children. Any attempt to indoctrinate children should be classified as child abuse for starters. No religion and prayer in public schools, end the tax free status and prosecute child abuse with rigor.
Maybe then your last sentence holds true.

[Baruch]

The decline of Christianity and rise of Atheism isn't just an American phenomenon. It is happening in Europe too, and is actually more advanced here (I live in the UK, so "here" is Europe). At the same time, the remaining Christians are tending more and more towards fundamentalism. In the UK, evangelical Christianity hardly existed 30 years ago; it is more prominent now, although nothing like the American situation.

In my view, these two things are linked. There are essentially 3 positions on the relationship between Science and Religion:
1. Fundamentalism: Religion and Science contradict each other. Religion is true, and thus large sectors of Science (most of Biology, Geology, Astronomy etc) are necessarily false.
2. Atheism: Religion and Science contradict each other, and Religion is false.
3. Moderate/ "Compatibilist" Theism: Religion and Science don't contradict each other. Apparent contradictions can be resolved, usually by re-interpreting religious texts.

Traditionally, the third position is the one that has been dominant throughout the West. However, this position is imho unstable and ultimately unviable. And the reason for this is that Science and Religion really are in contradiction. As Science has advanced, that contradiction has only become more obvious.

Perhaps, then, what we are seeing is the beginning of the end for moderate Christianity.

Welcome.  Moderate "main line" Christianity has been on decline in the US since the 1960s.  This isn't new, but they started from a very large number of believers in 1965.  They young Baby Boomers who were more radical, rejected religion other than New Age way back then.  But the majority of Baby Boomers proved to be conservative, and built the Evangelical movement.  They pulled Right.  The number of #2 people will remain restricted, because it also involves rejecting the American mythology not just the Biblical.  The number of #1 people will remain restricted, unless we abolish public education.

[doorknob]

I can just see the christians now. Oh the end of times, the end of times! It's the devil! It's his 100 years of power (or what ever). Oh no freak out christianity is shrinking! We christians are so persecuted.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I believe that more people are free to say "I don't give a crap about any god or gods". In the '40s this would have been a serious problem for most Americans. Now that's not so much. Personally, religion seldom protrudes into my life, and then it's most "have a blessed day".

[stromboli]

I believe that more people are free to say "I don't give a crap about any god or gods". In the '40s this would have been a serious problem for most Americans. Now that's not so much. Personally, religion seldom protrudes into my life, and then it's most "have a blessed day".

I live in a relative pocket of Liberalism so it isn't really a problem with me. Being close to a military base, there are a lot of people from different back grounds living here, and many have retired here that came from other places. About all I see are occasional Mormon missionaries. I seldom have any discussions, its "let the sleeping dogs alone" thing. Elsewhere in the state that is not the case, because I've lived in those places. But I still see plenty of God, guns and Jesus on window decals and bumper stickers.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I live in a relative pocket of Liberalism so it isn't really a problem with me. Being close to a military base, there are a lot of people from different back grounds living here, and many have retired here that came from other places. About all I see are occasional Mormon missionaries. I seldom have any discussions, its "let the sleeping dogs alone" thing. Elsewhere in the state that is not the case, because I've lived in those places. But I still see plenty of God, guns and Jesus on window decals and bumper stickers.

I live in the buckle of the Bible Belt, so I see that too. But fifty years ago if we had moved into this neighborhood people would have been dropping by to invite us to their church, or just to find out which church we attended.

My own bumpersticker say "Jarvis is my co-pilot."