Jesus--a man of peace?

[Mike Cl]

The mythical bible Jesus was no more peaceful than Randy Carson having an IQ level above 10.  Mike, lest you forget this very telling example as well of the TRUE Jesus modus operandi, to wit: JESUS CONDONES KILLING OF CHILDREN! Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. Jesus defends Himself by attacking them in a quid pro quo stance for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment; "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and anyone who curses his father or mother MUST BE PUT TO DEATH. (Matthew 15: 3-4).

The “command” that Jesus was referring too and that was in effect at His time was when Moses said: “Honor your father and mother,' and, 'Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.” (Exodus 21:17) 

That is one of the commands that Jesus says is still in effect.  So, off with their tiny heads!

[Mike Cl]

You have found one of the many examples of Jesus being gay when you posted the Luke 22:36 verse; "And He said to them, "But now, let him who has a purse take it along, likewise also a bag, and let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one."  If this verse stated by Jesus doesn't have gay overtones, then I don't know what does!

I do remember hearing of this idea before.  I think that in the Secret Gospel of Mark, there is a scene that suggests he may have been gay--or at least had sex as part of baptism, or something of the sort.

[Mike Cl]

And, of course, I could have posted a list of verses that show that Jesus is a man of peace; beating your swords into plowshares, or something like it.

And there is the Jesus of the poor--sell all and follow god--sort of thing.

And a couple of temper tantrums I forgot was the money changers in the Temple--got physical with them; did not read of any cheek turning in that scene.

Jesus, just like the rest of the fictional christian history and story, can be used to back any kind of jesus character one wants.  A very handy book, the bible.

[popsthebuilder]

If the fictional man Jesus were real, would I like to hang around the guy?  Not really.  If one reads carefully about what this man of peace is saying, I want nothing doing with the guy; he can't seem to make up his mind about much.  For example, the man of peace says this:


John 15:6 â€" “If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.”
Luke 12:47 â€" “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows.”
Mark 14:3-7 â€" “3While he was in Bethany, reclining at the table in the home of Simon the Leper, a woman came with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, made of pure nard. She broke the jar and poured the perfume on his head. 4Some of those present were saying indignantly to one another, ‘Why this waste of perfume? 5It could have been sold for more than a year’s wages and the money given to the poor.’ And they rebuked her harshly. 6‘Leave her alone,’ said Jesus. ‘Why are you bothering her? She has done a beautiful thing to me.7The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want. But you will not always have me.'”
Matthewâ€,8:32 â€" “He said to them, ‘Go!’ So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water.”
Mark 11:13-14 â€" “Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14 Then he said to the tree, ‘May no one ever eat fruit from you again.’ And his disciples heard him say it.”


(Matthew 10:34-36)--"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35"For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household."
(Luke 12:51,52)--"Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; 52for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two, and two against three . . . "
(Luke 22:36)--"And He said to them, "But now, let him who has a purse take it along, likewise also a bag, and let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one."

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. Revelation 19:11

Luke 19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.


Not my kind of dude!  No wonder christians really are amoral--they really do think they can do whatever they want and that is cool with their fictional gods.

I'm sorry, but even taking all those writings completely out of context like you did still doesn't work to paint Jesus as amoral or immoral.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

[popsthebuilder]

True enough. What is disturbing about Jesus alleged demands is the urging of perfectly established members of society, with family, career or business, to leave everything behind and follow the preacher. A decidedly inhuman request. As is the rule to love one's neighbor like yourself. A demand that is impossible to fulfill. Self love (not narcissism) is a basic requirement to love others. Not the other way around.
Besides that, the command to not covet one's oxen, donkeys and wives shows us clearly the mindset of the time. To put women in the same category as chattel and domesticated animals is a sure indictment of the chauvinistic, patriarchal nature of religion. I mean family wasn't the primary concern of religion at any time.

That's not completely true. He Said if a man didn't uphold his family duties that he would be in bad shape to say the least.

The call for asceticism is for disciples. And you are to care for those in need. That includes family of they are in need.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

[gentle_dissident]

That's not completely true. He Said if a man didn't uphold his family duties that he would be in bad shape to say the least.

The call for asceticism is for disciples. And you are to care for those in need. That includes family of they are in need.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

I too have a beautiful vision of the future. It's just not so superstitious and gullible.

[popsthebuilder]

I too have a beautiful vision of the future. It's just not so superstitious and gullible.

I'm not superstitious or gullible. Those are traits that are falsely given by people who stereotype others.


If you think you aren't falsely stereotyping me then perhaps you could show my superstition and gullibility through some q and a or something.
Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

[Mike Cl]

I'm sorry, but even taking all those writings completely out of context like you did still doesn't work to paint Jesus as amoral or immoral.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Pops, you are blinded by your 'faith'--and in that respect you are no different than any other theist.  Your fictional god, jesus can be made to say anything by using various quotes he is supposed to have made in that fiction you call the bible.  Why is that?  Because that fiction was cobbled together from a collection of writings by people with a political agenda.  Read the excluded material and jesus becomes even more bizarre; I mean killing a playmate for using some of his mud?????  But then, why not--it is basically a religious novel of that day. 

You are correct in saying that jesus is neither amoral or immoral; the people who fashion their world using jesus quotes are the amoral or immoral ones.  Not everybody who uses the jesus quotes are immoral or amoral, but I'd say the Joel Osteen's or the Pat Robertson's or the Ben Carson's of the world are the immoral ones.

"Out of context'--the defense of the theist blinded by their own belief and faith that they will make up any and every excuse to show that what they don't like is taken out of context.  You, my friend, are out of context.

[popsthebuilder]

Pops, you are blinded by your 'faith'--and in that respect you are no different than any other theist.  Your fictional god, jesus can be made to say anything by using various quotes he is supposed to have made in that fiction you call the bible.  Why is that?  Because that fiction was cobbled together from a collection of writings by people with a political agenda.  Read the excluded material and jesus becomes even more bizarre; I mean killing a playmate for using some of his mud?????  But then, why not--it is basically a religious novel of that day. 

You are correct in saying that jesus is neither amoral or immoral; the people who fashion their world using jesus quotes are the amoral or immoral ones.  Not everybody who uses the jesus quotes are immoral or amoral, but I'd say the Joel Osteen's or the Pat Robertson's or the Ben Carson's of the world are the immoral ones.

"Out of context'--the defense of the theist blinded by their own belief and faith that they will make up any and every excuse to show that what they don't like is taken out of context.  You, my friend, are out of context.

I don't consider the Christ to be equal to the One Creator GOD firstly. Past that I have read the Gnostic and apocryphal writings. I agree that some were most definitely forgeries written to strengthen the story of Jesus.

I'm not blinded by anything as I don't base my Faith off of the beliefs of others or their doctrines.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

[Pipu.Diiding]

No one would really want to hang around this Jesus dude. As the scriptures suggests, he orders people around and people scatter to meet to his orders. Like slaves.

Imagine having to cater to what your friend asks of you like that in this era. 

[gentle_dissident]

If you think you aren't falsely stereotyping me then perhaps you could show my superstition and gullibility through some q and a or something.

If you believe in a god and follow a religion, you are superstitious and gullible. If you are converting and encouraging people to a belief system, then you are guilty of manipulation. Even if you claim your brand of mass hysteria and it's instruction manual is a kinder gentler cult, it's still a cult.

You can get the same effect of rules, consequences, and life avoidance playing a board game. However, board games don't warp humanity.

[Baruch]

If you believe in a god and follow a religion, you are superstitious and gullible. If you are converting and encouraging people to a belief system, then you are guilty of manipulation. Even if you claim your brand of mass hysteria and it's instruction manual is a kinder gentler cult, it's still a cult.

You can get the same effect of rules, consequences, and life avoidance playing a board game. However, board games don't warp humanity.

But WoW is real, right? ;-)

[popsthebuilder]

If you believe in a god and follow a religion, you are superstitious and gullible. If you are converting and encouraging people to a belief system, then you are guilty of manipulation. Even if you claim your brand of mass hysteria and it's instruction manual is a kinder gentler cult, it's still a cult.

You can get the same effect of rules, consequences, and life avoidance playing a board game. However, board games don't warp humanity.

That's ridiculous given you nothing of what I believe.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

[gentle_dissident]

That's ridiculous given you nothing of what I believe.

So, you don't believe in a god and follow a religion?

[Mike Cl]

I don't consider the Christ to be equal to the One Creator GOD firstly. Past that I have read the Gnostic and apocryphal writings. I agree that some were most definitely forgeries written to strengthen the story of Jesus.

I'm not blinded by anything as I don't base my Faith off of the beliefs of others or their doctrines.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Not that I want to quibble, but when you say your 'faith' that means the core of what you think is right is not probable to anybody but you.  So, yes, you are blinded by your faith--that is what faith means--you don't need anything in the way of proof to think something is right.  That works for you, I guess, but leaves me cold. 

If you have read some of the material that did not make the bible, then you must realize that jesus is a fiction and was crafted into the jesus that appears in the bible.  Why would the gospel of mary, or the secret gospel of mark--or any other of the 85+ gospels that were floating out there--be left out???  The answer is very easy to see--because it suited the political purposes of those that crafted that collection of writings.