News:

Welcome to our site!

Main Menu

Jesus--a man of peace?

Started by Mike Cl, May 30, 2016, 11:53:35 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Mike Cl

If the fictional man Jesus were real, would I like to hang around the guy?  Not really.  If one reads carefully about what this man of peace is saying, I want nothing doing with the guy; he can't seem to make up his mind about much.  For example, the man of peace says this:


John 15:6 â€" “If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.”
Luke 12:47 â€" â€œThe servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows.”
Mark 14:3-7 â€" “3While he was in Bethany, reclining at the table in the home of Simon the Leper, a woman came with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, made of pure nard. She broke the jar and poured the perfume on his head. 4Some of those present were saying indignantly to one another, ‘Why this waste of perfume? 5It could have been sold for more than a year’s wages and the money given to the poor.’ And they rebuked her harshly. 6‘Leave her alone,’ said Jesus. â€˜Why are you bothering her? She has done a beautiful thing to me.7The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want. But you will not always have me.'”
Matthewâ€,8:32 â€" “He said to them, â€˜Go!’ So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water.”
Mark 11:13-14 â€" “Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14 Then he said to the tree, â€˜May no one ever eat fruit from you again.’ And his disciples heard him say it.”


(Matthew 10:34-36)--"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35"For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household."
(Luke 12:51,52)--"Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; 52for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two, and two against three . . . "
(Luke 22:36)--"And He said to them, "But now, let him who has a purse take it along, likewise also a bag, and let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one."

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. Revelation 19:11

Luke 19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.


Not my kind of dude!  No wonder christians really are amoral--they really do think they can do whatever they want and that is cool with their fictional gods.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

reasonist

That's why I am an anti theist. There is no redeeming feature with the christian triumvirate that would warrant acknowledgement, submission or worship, even if they existed.

Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities
Voltaire

Baruch

Quote from: reasonist on May 30, 2016, 12:46:45 PM
That's why I am an anti theist. There is no redeeming feature with the christian triumvirate that would warrant acknowledgement, submission or worship, even if they existed.

The character of Jesus was pretty unique ... there wasn't much that was Jewish, Roman or American about him.  Most of us care for family and material success ... the opposites of what this character was concerned about.  If you have good family, if you have material success .. then you might want to look over your shoulder over what is coming next.  But if Jesus is speaking to those without family and without material success, and had no hope of gaining those ... then the message would be taken differently.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

gentle_dissident

#3

reasonist

Quote from: Baruch on May 30, 2016, 01:06:54 PM
The character of Jesus was pretty unique ... there wasn't much that was Jewish, Roman or American about him.  Most of us care for family and material success ... the opposites of what this character was concerned about.  If you have good family, if you have material success .. then you might want to look over your shoulder over what is coming next.  But if Jesus is speaking to those without family and without material success, and had no hope of gaining those ... then the message would be taken differently.
True enough. What is disturbing about Jesus alleged demands is the urging of perfectly established members of society, with family, career or business, to leave everything behind and follow the preacher. A decidedly inhuman request. As is the rule to love one's neighbor like yourself. A demand that is impossible to fulfill. Self love (not narcissism) is a basic requirement to love others. Not the other way around.
Besides that, the command to not covet one's oxen, donkeys and wives shows us clearly the mindset of the time. To put women in the same category as chattel and domesticated animals is a sure indictment of the chauvinistic, patriarchal nature of religion. I mean family wasn't the primary concern of religion at any time.
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities
Voltaire

gentle_dissident

Quote from: reasonist on May 30, 2016, 01:30:01 PM
Besides that, the command to not covet one's oxen, donkeys and wives shows us clearly the mindset of the time.
The sheep were nervous.

Mike Cl

Quote from: gentle_dissident on May 30, 2016, 01:40:51 PM
The sheep were nervous.
As well they should.  At least, so I've been told. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

21CIconoclast

Quote from: Mike Cl on May 30, 2016, 02:56:07 PM
As well they should.  At least, so I've been told.



I am told that in the Northwest, the sheep are affectionately known as "Montana Showgirls." Riding the fence line on the many ranches in this area can take weeks, therefore the sheep are  always wearing Frederick's of Hollywoods latest attire.

"'Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion." (Leviticus 18:23)


“When Christians understand why you dismiss all the other gods in the Before Common Era, then you will understand why I dismiss your serial killer god named Yahweh.”

Mike Cl

Quote from: 21CIconoclast on May 30, 2016, 03:04:10 PM


I am told that in the Northwest, the sheep are affectionately known as "Montana Showgirls." Riding the fence line on the many ranches in this area can take weeks, therefore the sheep are  always wearing Frederick's of Hollywoods latest attire.

"'Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion." (Leviticus 18:23)
Just think of all those sheep ranchers and shepherds that are going to hell--bet they have a special corner just for them. :))
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

21CIconoclast




The mythical bible Jesus was no more peaceful than Randy Carson having an IQ level above 10.  Mike, lest you forget this very telling example as well of the TRUE Jesus modus operandi, to wit: JESUS CONDONES KILLING OF CHILDREN! Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. Jesus defends Himself by attacking them in a quid pro quo stance for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment; "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and anyone who curses his father or mother MUST BE PUT TO DEATH. (Matthew 15: 3-4).

The “command” that Jesus was referring too and that was in effect at His time was when Moses said: “Honor your father and mother,' and, 'Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.” (Exodus 21:17) 

You have found one of the many examples of Jesus being gay when you posted the Luke 22:36 verse; "And He said to them, "But now, let him who has a purse take it along, likewise also a bag, and let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one."  If this verse stated by Jesus doesn't have gay overtones, then I don't know what does!


“When Christians understand why you dismiss all the other gods in the Before Common Era, then you will understand why I dismiss your serial killer god named Yahweh.”

stromboli

As a man who grew up with sheepherders in sheep country, I consider myself the forum expert in nervous sheep. Brokeback Mountain? Nah. when you got all them warm, furry, anatomically correct critters around?

Sorry Mike. Back to the OP. :biggrin:

Mike Cl

Quote from: stromboli on May 30, 2016, 04:14:34 PM
As a man who grew up with sheepherders in sheep country, I consider myself the forum expert in nervous sheep. Brokeback Mountain? Nah. when you got all them warm, furry, anatomically correct critters around?

Sorry Mike. Back to the OP. :biggrin:
Hijack Away. :)))))) Don't know of a thread that isn't a mish-mash of all kinds of stuff.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Baruch

Quote from: 21CIconoclast on May 30, 2016, 03:33:04 PM


The mythical bible Jesus was no more peaceful than Randy Carson having an IQ level above 10.  Mike, lest you forget this very telling example as well of the TRUE Jesus modus operandi, to wit: JESUS CONDONES KILLING OF CHILDREN! Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. Jesus defends Himself by attacking them in a quid pro quo stance for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment; "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and anyone who curses his father or mother MUST BE PUT TO DEATH. (Matthew 15: 3-4).

The “command” that Jesus was referring too and that was in effect at His time was when Moses said: “Honor your father and mother,' and, 'Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.” (Exodus 21:17) 

You have found one of the many examples of Jesus being gay when you posted the Luke 22:36 verse; "And He said to them, "But now, let him who has a purse take it along, likewise also a bag, and let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one."  If this verse stated by Jesus doesn't have gay overtones, then I don't know what does!

People didn't have pockets until the Middle Ages.  You had a coin purse or for really small change you kept it in your mouth under your tongue.  The coins were really small, some as small as a grain of rice.  So "gay" only in terms of sexually insecure 21st century men.

And not just execute children, but adults as well who curse their parents ... so be fair.

There are actual Greek-gay moments ... but you have to combine the canonical Gospel story of the Garden of Gethsemane with non-canonical Gospels.  It implies that older man on younger man sex was part of the baptism.  Some later sect's leaders mostly liked to deflower married women with money.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

marom1963

Quote from: 21CIconoclast on May 30, 2016, 03:33:04 PM


The mythical bible Jesus was no more peaceful than Randy Carson having an IQ level above 10.  Mike, lest you forget this very telling example as well of the TRUE Jesus modus operandi, to wit: JESUS CONDONES KILLING OF CHILDREN! Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. Jesus defends Himself by attacking them in a quid pro quo stance for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment; "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and anyone who curses his father or mother MUST BE PUT TO DEATH. (Matthew 15: 3-4).

The “command” that Jesus was referring too and that was in effect at His time was when Moses said: “Honor your father and mother,' and, 'Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.” (Exodus 21:17) 

You have found one of the many examples of Jesus being gay when you posted the Luke 22:36 verse; "And He said to them, "But now, let him who has a purse take it along, likewise also a bag, and let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one."  If this verse stated by Jesus doesn't have gay overtones, then I don't know what does!
Jesus was never granted a sexuality by his followers. If you suggest that he even masturbated as a teenager you would likely be murdered.
Point is, the Jesus that people worship and love has little to do w/the biblical Jesus. Both are entirely made up, yes, but the Jesus of the public arena is a romantic - brave and good and kind and decent and honest and never putting a foot wrong. He's just so perfect. He's Lassie in human form.
OMNIA DEPENDET ...

Baruch

#14
Quote from: reasonist on May 30, 2016, 01:30:01 PM
True enough. What is disturbing about Jesus alleged demands is the urging of perfectly established members of society, with family, career or business, to leave everything behind and follow the preacher. A decidedly inhuman request. As is the rule to love one's neighbor like yourself. A demand that is impossible to fulfill. Self love (not narcissism) is a basic requirement to love others. Not the other way around.
Besides that, the command to not covet one's oxen, donkeys and wives shows us clearly the mindset of the time. To put women in the same category as chattel and domesticated animals is a sure indictment of the chauvinistic, patriarchal nature of religion. I mean family wasn't the primary concern of religion at any time.

There usually aren't American nuclear families in the world, let alone across history, and it is dying out in the US, as the post-WW II bonus runs dry.  Individuals didn't count in most societies, it was the clan or tribe that counted.  A clan is not a nuclear family, it is a large extended family including all the cousins.  Romans originally didn't even have a family name, just a clan name.  And yes it was patriarchal ... as in pater familias ... you do as he says, or he makes you sleep with the fishes.  The oldest and meanest male member of the clan ... until some family member or other clan assassinated you.

The love thing is distorted by English ... which of three words for "love" was Jesus using in that quote?  Philos was brotherly love only.  The community, women, children can take care of themselves.

The Cynics were the original pagan dropouts from society.  The first one lived in a barrel and ate with dogs.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.