Remember this embarrassing day for the Catholics? …….

[21CIconoclast]

The picture above shows the ever so ignorant John Paul 4 KISSING the Muslim Qur'an in placating to Islam that they both have their roots through Abraham. How disgusting can the leader of Catholicism at the time get? To the dumbfounded Catholic, this was no big deal. It matters only when one actually does their homework by realizing that the Qur’an that JP4 venerated and kissed, is the same book that states within that the Muslim is NOT to make friends with Christians or Jews, and to KILL them when you can!

"You are not to make friendship with Jews and Christians (unbelievers of Islam)" (Qur’an 5:51)

"kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (Jews and Christians) (Qur’an 2:191)

"murder them and treat them harshly" (Qur’an 9:123).

“Terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an." (Qur'an 8:12)

“Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them”  (Qur’an 47:4)


The most comical of the Qur’an passages that JP4 venerated was the Qur’an’s passages that state Jesus was NOT god, nor the son of any god!
(Quran 112:3 and 18:4-5)


Again, only the totally inept that love to drink Bronze and Iron Age Kool Aide in the 21st century become members of one of the most disgraceful, disgusting and primitive religions known to man, aka, “Catholicism.” 

The Catholic church and their followers continue to make fools of themselves, but did we expect anything less because they still adhere to their Bronze and Iron Age thinking?  NOT!

[Baruch]

Pope Benedict had a different opinion of Islam ;-)

At least the Muslims got that much right ... a historical Jesus isn't G-d.  But then Jews knew that first.

[Shiranu]

Cool, I guess.

The French royalty and church also swore to be eternal enemies of the English, but frankly I cant be assed into taking up my shield and sword and slaughtering me some Anglo barbarians. If people want to make peace, I am not going to piss in their coffee over it.

[gentle_dissident]

Cool, I guess.

The French royalty and church also swore to be eternal enemies of the English, but frankly I cant be assed into taking up my shield and sword and slaughtering me some Anglo barbarians. If people want to make peace, I am not going to piss in their coffee over it.

Hopefully they can look at their books like grindhouse movies instead of instruction manuals.
http://www.bricktestament.com/the_law/

[21CIconoclast]

I wish Randy Carson would give us his spin upon this topic, I need a good laugh.

[Baruch]

Remember, the Pope is only infallible, ex cathedra ... which means sitting in his official capacity on the Papal throne.  In this picture he is clearly not even sitting down ... so the joke is on the Arab, the Pope was only fooling ;-)

[drunkenshoe]

The French royalty and church also swore to be eternal enemies of the English, but frankly I cant be assed into taking up my shield and sword and slaughtering me some Anglo barbarians.

Lol'ed. This morning I was correcting my trans. about history of European languages and socio-lingustics -same one last reading- and it is telling about how French was suspicious of English - vice versa, hundreds of years ago- conspiring to wipe out their language, and establish their own.  The record on English version is in French.

[drunkenshoe]

By the way, why would anything in that book disturb the pope? Pot-kettle. There is nothing extra embarassing in the act. It's just politics.

I just saw the pic I had no idea of this. In 1999 probably nobody was even aware of it when it happened. It's 'different' now because of 9/11.

[21CIconoclast]

By the way, why would anything in that book disturb the pope? Pot-kettle. There is nothing extra embarassing in the act. It's just politics.

I just saw the pic I had no idea of this. In 1999 probably nobody was even aware of it when it happened. It's 'different' now because of 9/11.

drunkenshoe,

It matters not whether it was 1999, 1734, or on September 11, 2001; the fact remains that politics shouldn't be a part of this equation whatsoever where the Qur'an explicitly shows that Allah's doctrine says to kill all Jews and Christians!   The Pope on a Rope JP4, as he insipidly kissed the Islam Qur'an, therefore was totally ignorant of its anti Jew and Christian doctrine, or if JP4 knew of it, then he was not standing up for the Catholic church in a godly way. Either way, the dressed JP4 in resembling a KKK Grand Dragon, is wrong.

The Catholics continue to drink their Kool Aide like good little sheep at the expense of being laughed at in the 21st century.

"Uh, okay John Paul, you've licked enough camel smell off of the Muslim's Qur'an, enough already in making us look like fools!"

[Shiranu]

It matters not whether it was 1999, 1734, or on September 11, 2001

Yeah, it really does since Islam was not a boogieman until September 11th.

the fact remains that politics shouldn't be a part of this equation...

If you are waiting for the Holy Catholic Church and Islam to not be involved with politics, then you have and will be waiting quite a long time.

...at the expense of being laughed at in the 21st century.

Implying Catholicism isn't the largest denomination in the world and that the majority of everyone else thinks they are ridiculous, which is patently false.


If you are going to imply others are ridiculous, do not do it with ridiculous statements of your own.

[KUSA]

Did the Muslim kiss the Bible in return?

[stromboli]

When the pope kisses a transgender on the mouth I will call that progress.

[21CIconoclast]

Shiranu,


YOUR QUOTE: "Yeah, it really does since Islam was not a boogieman until September 11th."

Uh, you need to brush up upon your history, okay? Al Qaeda, which formed in approximately in 1990, wants to remove any foreign presence, primarily American and Israeli, prior to 911, from it's Holy Land through their fatwas where they encourage  all Muslims to take up arms against Washington's "imperialism" and the presence of Israel whose Yahweh god goes against the Muslim Allah god.

Lest you forget, Al Queda in 1998 through Osama bin Ladin issued a statement under the banner of "The World Islamic Front for Jihad Against The Jews and Crusaders", aka, the USA, saying it was the duty of all Muslims to kill U.S. citizens, civilian or military, and their allies. Allegedly orchestrated the bombings of the U.S. Embassies in Nairobi, Kenya and Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania, on August 7, 1998. Claims to have been involved in the 1993 killing of U.S. servicemen in Somalia and the December 1992 bombings against U.S. troops in Aden, Yemen. Barring September 11, 2001, they were involved in the U.S.S Cole bombing. You're going to proffer that Islam wasn't the boggieman before September 11th? Surely you jest! LOL


YOUR QUOTE "If you are waiting for the Holy Catholic Church and Islam to not be involved with politics, then you have and will be waiting quite a long time."

You're missing the point, I am saying that politics should NOT be involved if you're the Pope on a Rope truly representing the Catholic church by actually following the scriptures within the primitive Catholic bible, whereas the Catholics were disparaged by another primitive religion, and in this case, Islam.  Get it?


YOUR QUOTE: "Implying Catholicism isn't the largest denomination in the world and that the majority of everyone else thinks they are ridiculous, which is patently false."

It goes without question that the inept sheep of the Catholic faith are obviously going to think that their primitive faith is not ridiculous, along with other divisions of Christianity that don't their version of the faith is any more ridiculous.  Duh.


YOUR QUOTE: "If you are going to imply others are ridiculous, do not do it with ridiculous statements of your own."

Since my statements have not been shown to be ridiculous because of you either being wrong, or your weak suppositions were easily dispatched, your notions have become moot.

[Shiranu]

You're going to proffer that Islam wasn't the boggieman before September 11th? Surely you jest! LOL

Since none of your points actually addressed the boogyman factor of Islam, let me explain what a boogyman is for you...

Per dictionary.com, a boogyman is, "a person, real or imaginary, used as a threat, esp to children". Now, pre-9/11, how many people really gave a shit about Islam? If you asked the average American, "Do you know what he Qu'ran is?" or, "Do you believe Islam is one of the main threats to the world today?", how many do you think would say yes? If you asked the average American, "What is your opinion of Sharia law taking over Europe and Canada?" they would have probably thought you were talking about some new form of socialism.

Before 9/11, the "boogyman" was Mexicans and gangsters. They were the ones that were going to destroy the American way of life. Before them it was the Chinese, the communists, the socialists, the Krauts and the Japs, the Roman Catholic Italian and their Irish drunkard friends, and so on. It's just an endless cycle of everyone has to lose their shit and live in fear because group x is coming to destroy group y's way of life, and it's pathetic.

... I am saying that politics should NOT be involved if you're the Pope on a Rope truly representing the Catholic church by actually following the scriptures within the primitive Catholic bible...

And again, if you are expecting the Catholic Church to not be involved in politics given their thousand-umpfh years of being the key political power in Europe, then you are being ridiculous. The pope has never been a purely religious figure and there is no reason to treat him as one.

It goes without question that the inept sheep of the Catholic faith are obviously going to think that their primitive faith is not ridiculous, along with other divisions of Christianity that don't their version of the faith is any more ridiculous.  Duh.

Believe it or not, the average person... Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu, atheist, whatever... don't give a shit what you, I or anyone else believes. The majority of the world could care less if Catholicism is ridiculous or not. So again, implying that the majority of the world is laughing at the RCC's ridiculousness is just false.

Since my statements have not been shown to be ridiculous because of you either being wrong, or your weak suppositions were easily dispatched, your notions have become moot.

If you say so.

[drunkenshoe]

21CIconoclast,

As far as I understand you are an atheist , right. (Welcome to the forum by the way.) You are also right in saying that the politics should be completely out of it...etc. But that's just an ideal has nothing to do with human reality. And by singling out one mumbo jumbo leader kissing a book of another mumbo jumbo leader, you yourself are carrying it to another political level.

Your evaluation of this event is 'religious' in terms of real life and its manner is a bit of like supporting a football team. Vatican's existence is completely political. If you want to take the politics out, you need to abolish Vatican. Needlessly to say that the same drill should go for the other side(s), but in this case it's more powerful side showing a gesture and the whole point that this happened BEFORE 9/11. So it matters that it happened before 9/11. Ask anyone around you old enough to have a world vision if they even heard about this in 1999. (Obviously you are younger.) Before 9/11, almost nobody in Western culture knew anything about Islam or Islamic culture(s), let alone the Quran verses.

Most people -be it seculars, atheists or believers, also mostly Amnericans because they are isolated- have this concurrent 'historical' image of Christianity and Vatican; almost if Vatican suddenly rose from earth just after the 'story' ended. It's not just what their religion demands so they believe in it, it is also that people have a strong tendency to percieve human history, -or even events of their lives as a linear series of events- in a manner of development that follow each other to direct consequences as they see in present time.

Well, hopefully as you know too that is not the truth. Vatican is and has been Vatican because of the politicisation of the said religion. And this is not somethig just about Judaism, Christianity and Islam. This has been the same since different tribes of humans have bred and covered enough land to be neigbours. Why are we so damn sure about it, because this is the only rational interpretation of events in human history.

There are no actions taken or wars fought or events followed in the name of religion or faith or some gods, deities in real life. It's all about power, resource, land, riches, slaves...etc. And RELIGION HAS ALWAYS BEEN POLITICS in human history. The 'moment' that the primate started to live in societies and a leader and with him 'the authority' was born we had politics and so religion, because religion is the first law, first set of rules that told people what to do. And to execute that system you need an authority which brings hierarchy; POLITICS in that -also every other- system.

Let's caricaturise it:

35 000 years ago, the clan's chief, the strongest man in th tribe, had to be sacrificed violently to the goddess by his tanist and the strongest party of men and his blood must be sprinkled on to the villagers so they could survive the winter, suffer no famine and children and women wuoldn't die in birth. To execute this ritual you need an organisation of some sort from exacting the details to choosing the strongest male, the female who is going to mate with him...etc. And if it doesn't happen, people would be very restless, jobs will not be done, duties will be neglected, maybe there will be even an uprising. It's freaking politics; ordering life. "You will NOT eat the fruits of the trees in 'sacred forest' in pain of death, it is sacred. You won't hunt this animal in the holy season of mushumbo thsumbo, before I make abracadabra chika bumba or the goddess will become furious and killl us all." Translation; if we let people randomly eat those the way they like, we won't be able to have enough for everyone. If you kill those animals randomly, we won't be able to feed women aned children. We'll starve to death."

10 000 to 8000 years ago, the Pharoah, today we define him as someone worshipped as a god by his people had very similar, but very different looking duities. The first is being there as the pharaoh. Because somebody needs to. And doesn't matter if the scale was bigger, there were more people to order, more rituals AND first it was people to react when they weren't done. "I am the one who travels the sun to rise and set; without it you don't have food AND I am the undefeatable hero who kills your enemies, with me you are safe. I'm your god." Translation "We need someone to rule around and a hierarchy to make things happen; we cannot go around and have elections, itr is freaking 8000 BCE. Obey, you'll live upto 35 year the most anyway. "

[There is no consciousness in the modern sense. I am caricaturisng it with modern look. These people did not think they were fooling people for their own good. It's just how it evolved naturally.]

Same drill goes with Ancient Greek Civilisation(s) and Roman Empire too.

Last one is very important to us, because its economical and political collapse gave brith to Christianity itself. In the end Christianity has spread and become an official religion of an Empire which its rules, conditions; its POLITICS FAILED. It was no longer to keep the order and balance; a huge Empire where all the land owned by nobles; they fought betwene them and had slaves worked it. Eventually, it couldn't rule itself. And it created its own new politics and policies; Christianity and in time that became a very powerful power zone: The VATICAN. (Highly likely, there were lots of attempts before, at some point it became successful because the policies of the new religion; the new policies have become successful.)

"I, Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus Augustus, I convert to blah blah and recognise and worship to the one true mumbo jumbo...blah blah and will be baptised blah blah"Translation: "Guys, without political and religious unity we won't be able to end the constant rebellions and wars between nobles and such. We keep losing control and power. Considering in more than 300 years, the majority of the army and slaves have already converted to this religion called Christianity, I say we stop throwing them to lions and make new 'policies' and adjust them to that system which will enable us to eliminate our enemies and make some reformations. Otherwise we are fucked, we cannot clean the mess likely to come our way." Therefore comes the Nicean Creed -and others; a man called Jesus, becomes a zombie, flies up to the skies becomes a god and his mother gets re-hymenated after roughly 400 years later.

Islam is no different. There is a leader and a group of people who wanted to unite their tribes in a land- and they adapt themselves to the best selling story ever. When that was successful it went on conquering and slaving other cultures, just like Roman and Egyptian Empires did. There were many attempts before Islam too, but their policies and execution didnt work. This one worked.

Contrary to the common belief it is pretty much the same today. This system doesn't change just because we humans made the atom bomb, have landed on the moon, invented modern medicine and now we have more deadly weapons and high tech toys and more time in our hands to invent imaginary problems. It's the dynamics of being a social animal, demographic and the fact that humans die every second and new ones born. The Wheel must turn.

It will be the same tommorow when people started to live in colonies on Mars or on Calisto and Io. Put humans into cave or in space shuttles or on other planet; similat policies will come up and work. They will want to belong to a group and they will communicate with other groups, they will declare one enemy if it is beneficial and profitable, make political 'gestures' pf peace or hostility.

That photograph is exactly the same thing what Constantine the Great or Ramses II did, though theirs had enormous consequences for their people and also one for human history, this one is tiny in scale. It doesn't have a special meaning. It doesn't matter what that book or the other one says. They are the same thing 'written' with the same outlook in different manners. The gesture has nothing to do with what's in the books, what are the religions...etc.. I'd like to use another term than 'clown', like 'holy man' as in ancient terms, but unfortunately a witch of a village or a holy medicine man of a primitve clan had far more functions than those two.

So, simply it is like one politician having a cup coffee with another. It was done because it was beneficial and profitable at the time. That's it.