Author Topic: How can anyone be a Catholic is beyond reason…..  (Read 8123 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: How can anyone be a Catholic is beyond reason…..
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2016, 12:05:55 AM »
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Sorry, that all looks like you're saying people can reform.

Call it what you will, as long as you do it ;-)  I am not saying that I can actually improve myself, just that I have to try.  Often I may be replacing one sin with another ;-(

What I am saying is that you can live your life, more or less deliberately.  You aren't completely helpless or hopeless.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 12:08:13 AM by Baruch »
𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎌𐎀𐎍𐎎𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀𐎟𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎁𐎀𐎍𐎉𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: How can anyone be a Catholic is beyond reason…..
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2016, 12:08:22 AM »
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Often I may be replacing one sin with another ;-(
I call that "trading habits". I once thought it might be a nice band name.

Offline Baruch

Re: How can anyone be a Catholic is beyond reason…..
« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2016, 12:13:50 AM »
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I call that "trading habits". I once thought it might be a nice band name.

Between Catholic and Anglican nuns? ;-))
𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎌𐎀𐎍𐎎𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀𐎟𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎁𐎀𐎍𐎉𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: How can anyone be a Catholic is beyond reason…..
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2016, 12:23:03 AM »
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Between Catholic and Anglican nuns? ;-))
That, and I tend to barter.

Re: How can anyone be a Catholic is beyond reason…..
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2016, 03:17:50 AM »
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You are right about the pointless rhetoric.  Shadow boxing in a video game doesn't cover the half of it.  It would be better there be no scripture at all, than people make endless valueless arguments about it.  Socrates would say that books are the corruption of education anyway.  Actual education is one on one between two people, who think on their feet, about ordinary things.  How many angels dance on the head of a pin ... is rather pointless.

So study individual people, not scripture or theology.  In that sense Plato was a betrayal of what Socrates stood for, because he got paid for teaching (Socrates did it for free as a civic duty) and he wrote books.  Of course, studying institutions isn't studying people, but a social process, and is usually a downer for me.
The ONLY point in going to college or grad school is to get the "piece of paper." One will NOT be educated in either place. If one wishes to be educated, one must undertake that education oneself. One must read widely - and go out in the World and meet PEOPLE. That's the only way. (Ignore the news for the most part. By reading, I mean great works of literature.)
There is art and music and the beauty of architecture - and food and dance - and, yes, even fashion - to stimulate one's senses. These are all things to be enjoyed. Not to enjoy them is foolish. And then there is nature. Not to enjoy that is equally foolish.
While one cannot turn away from the horrors of the World, one cannot ignore its beauties, either. Life is too precious to be myopic.
OMNIA DEPENDET ...

Re: How can anyone be a Catholic is beyond reason…..
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2016, 03:22:13 AM »
I'm not Catholic (any longer), but even I enjoy watching the ritual of a papal mass, and I do love the architecture. I have been to the Vatican. I don't care about what the popes have done. The Sistine Chapel I would preserve for all time, even if the Catholic faith died tomorrow. I refuse to allow what some human beings have done to get in the way of appreciating what other human beings have done. I have seen the Pieta (I have stood not 2 feet from it on more than one occasion) - that alone is precious, despite its clear religious connotations. It is gorgeousness beyond any words that I can come up with. That could be any mother, holding her beloved dead son.Any mother.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 03:26:12 AM by marom1963 »
OMNIA DEPENDET ...

Offline Baruch

Re: How can anyone be a Catholic is beyond reason…..
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2016, 07:13:53 AM »
I got to see a full size plaster copy of the Pieta ... and other Catholic stuff at the Denver Art Museum, when it was on tour.  Obviously the actual Pieta can't go on tour.  Was Michelangelo 23 years old when he did the Pieta?  Amazing stuff.  My Ex has been to the Vatican ... and she is ex-Catholic.

College can be useful, but it has gotten too expensive for most people.  This is because of the government student loan subsidy.  The government needs to get out of formal post HS education.
𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎌𐎀𐎍𐎎𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀𐎟𐎍𐎜𐎜𐎟𐎁𐎀𐎍𐎉𐎀𐎀𐎚𐎀
luu shalmaata luu balt’aata
May you be well, may you be healthy

Re: How can anyone be a Catholic is beyond reason…..
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2016, 10:50:06 AM »
Religion in general, by its very nature, is "beyond reason".  You don't "reason" yourself into the belief that magic is real.  It is not "reasonable" to believe a deity is both loving and vengeful, a "father figure" who will dole out horrific, eternal punishment against his "children" for the slightest offense.  There is no "reason" to believe both that only God can judge, but also that you "know" when someone is going to Hell, mostly because you don't like them.  It is a fantasy and reason doesn't apply to fantasies.
This sentence is a lie...

Offline Randy Carson

Re: How can anyone be a Catholic is beyond reason…..
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2016, 12:27:53 PM »
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As we can see, Randy stays out of this kitchen because its too hot for him to enter! This topic is just another reason why
Randy has to HIDE from his primitive embarrassing Catholic faith, what's new? Nothing.

In turn, even though he HIDES because he is embarrassed, at the same time, this is the faith he wants to promote to others, laughable.

Some barrels contain fish that need to be shot.

Offline Randy Carson

Re: How can anyone be a Catholic is beyond reason…..
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2016, 12:31:08 PM »
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I just returned to the Catholic Church a few month ago and have no regrets.  The Church does a ton of good stuff and I like being a part of that.  You ask what's being done about pedophiles, and I can tell you quite a bit.  I just volunteered for some charity work at my local parish, but before I could start I had to take a class called "Safe Environment Training".  Every adult who works or volunteers in the Church has to take the class, including clergy. 
I took the class a few days ago and I was impressed.  The instructor was a member of a neighboring parish who also happens to be a sex crimes police detective.  He talked about the abuse of children in the Church, how to recognize it, and how to report it.  We watched interview videos of victims and pedophiles, talked about past atrocities, prevention, and what steps to take if it rears its ugly head.  He didn't pull any punches and emphasized that you call the police first, then child services, and then the parish last.

Thanks for the overview, Jack.

Unfortunately, it goes against the tide of this forum, so don't expect anyone to let your facts get in the way of their anti-Catholic story.

Stop by the forum at catholic.com if you haven't already done so.
Some barrels contain fish that need to be shot.

Offline Randy Carson

Re: How can anyone be a Catholic is beyond reason…..
« Reply #40 on: May 17, 2016, 12:32:47 PM »
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Good.  But you would think that all those priests and other clergy and lay people that are just stuffed full of the Holy Spirit would not need anything other than the Law of the Lord for guidance.  Gee, I wonder where the holy spirit and Jesus are when all these bad things happen with his earthly tools????????

Priests aren't perfect; they're human just like everyone else.

God doesn't prevent anyone from sinning if they choose to do so.
Some barrels contain fish that need to be shot.

Offline Randy Carson

Re: How can anyone be a Catholic is beyond reason…..
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2016, 12:37:53 PM »
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Heads up, if the Bronze and Iron Age Catholic church actually did some "good stuff," and in the eyes of the bible character Jesus, then they wouldn't have one dollar in their coffers because they should be spending it all in helping the poor worldwide!

Why is this true?

The Church needs buildings in which to conduct its meetings and to run its day-to-day affairs. Sports franchises build big stadiums to host their events...why can't a Church build the facilities it needs for services, for hospitals, for orphanages or for universities? Do these things not provide a way of giving back to the poor?
 
The fact is that the Catholic Church maintains many of its buildings in the same way that the US Government maintains national parks, monuments, and historic buildings. Should the government sell all of its land and property to pay off the national debt? Or is there some advantage in maintaining these treasures so that everyone can enjoy them? Similarly, the Church holds its property, art, libraries and archives as treasures open to all.

Sadly, there is little cash flow generated from these things relative to the cost of upkeep, so the Vatican routinely needs to request additional money just to break-even on an annual basis. This annual collection is called "Peter's Pence."
 
Are you envious that people have donated their time and money to glorify God through works of art and fine architecture? Does the Church have the right to take what has been donated to God in past centuries and put it all on the auction block without regard for what the original donors desired?

Finally, if the Church wanted to sell some of its churches, to whom would it sell them? Who is in the market for something like this:

« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 12:43:04 PM by Randy Carson »
Some barrels contain fish that need to be shot.

Re: How can anyone be a Catholic is beyond reason…..
« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2016, 12:42:36 PM »
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Priests aren't perfect; they're human just like everyone else.

God doesn't prevent anyone from sinning if they choose to do so.
Of course.  It is convenient at times to have a perfect personal god and not at others.  Of course.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Randy Carson

Re: How can anyone be a Catholic is beyond reason…..
« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2016, 12:44:54 PM »
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Of course.  It is convenient at times to have a perfect personal god and not at others.  Of course.

Out for a troll today, Mike? As usual?

Does having a personal relationship with God mean that he forces you to do things you don't want to do or prevents you from doing things you do want to do?

heh...you're not married are you?
Some barrels contain fish that need to be shot.

Re: How can anyone be a Catholic is beyond reason…..
« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2016, 12:47:43 PM »
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Between 2 and 3 TRILLION dollars is the estimate of the RCC's worth! Could wipe out hunger and/or provide drinking water for the world. But maybe there is some legal tender in their afterlife and they are just planning ahead? A celestial casino?
The problem with this idea is that it's a one shot deal.  Sure, you might feed millions and temporary relieve the suffering of countless of people today, but what about tomorrow?  I've said this before, the riches of the catholic church significantly add to their ability to bring in the billions of dollars a year.  Marketing is everything. 

 

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