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Pope Canonizes Genocidal Priest

Started by stromboli, May 15, 2016, 10:23:54 AM

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Randy Carson

Quote from: Mike Cl on May 17, 2016, 12:46:43 PM
Don't see the president or military as being the equal of god--meaning they exist and god doesn't.  And they are human and fallible--the fiction of god isn't.  No comparison.

The military defends the nation.
The president defends the constitution.
The apologist defends the faith

QuoteDefending what is good is not only valuable, but necessary.  The catholic church (or any church or religion) is not only not valuable, but destructive--as is all religion.

Care to defend that opinion? Because it's not valuable, but destructive.
Some barrels contain fish that need to be shot.

reasonist

Quote from: Mike Cl on May 17, 2016, 12:46:43 PM
Don't see the president or military as being the equal of god--meaning they exist and god doesn't.  And they are human and fallible--the fiction of god isn't.  No comparison.

Defending what is good is not only valuable, but necessary.  The catholic church (or any church or religion) is not only not valuable, but destructive--as is all religion.

Anything that cannot be tested and disproved is not evidence. It's really that simple.
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities
Voltaire

stromboli

Right Catholicism exists in the real world and has a known origin. Mormonism compares only in that it is a religion. Point is that apologetic sources are for the purpose  of-wait for it- APOLOGETICS!

Consider that Creationism doesn't have much in the way of actual scientific basis, other than what Creationists have hunted out and grafted on to their theory. Scientific method is about discovery and evidence gathered pursuant from that to support or not support the discovery. Evolution is based on discovery and gathering evidence to either prove or disprove it. There is a massive amount of evidence to bolster it as a theory. Creationism starts with a premise- divine origin- and then seeks out evidence to prove the truth of divine origin. The exact opposite of science.

If no bible were written and the Catholic church did not exist, would evidence from historical sources, using scientific method,  discover the existence of Jesus? Get rid of the Catholic Church and you don't have the Council of Nicea, no bible and no record based on sources gathered for that purpose. What is left is a hodge podge of sources from a then-monotheistic cult derived from Mithraism and earlier religions. Had Constantine not seen the value of adopting his mother's religion for the purpose of advancing the state of Rome, the whole existence of Catholicism is called into question.

And if I have an ass ache with religion, It because I have problems with faith-based belief presented as truth, and what is given out as truth with no evidence; a "truth" than condones misogyny, slavery, rape, withholding useful items like birth control and condoms for prevention of unwanted pregnancy. Religion has been the excuse for bad behavior for centuries. Christians burned down the library at Alexandria and the works of Greek scholars because it was in their version evil. We lost vast amounts of knowledge because the good well meaning Christians burned it. Doesn't strike me as either visionary or the work of an enlightened god.

Your god apparently doesn't have a problem with poverty and lower standards of living generated by overpopulation and resultant children that are not adequately cared for by society. Disease, persecution, genocide and destruction of cultures and the invasion of countries- all justified by religions plural and yours specifically.

gentle_dissident

Quote from: Mike Cl on May 17, 2016, 12:46:43 PM
Don't see the president or military as being the equal of god--meaning they exist and god doesn't.  And they are human and fallible--the fiction of god isn't.  No comparison.
Laws were initially formed as a result of someone's physical or emotional anguish. Police and leaders were employed to enforce these laws. However, they can't be everywhere at once, so these laws become religion enforceable by the being who created everything. Primitive humans assumed the known  universe was created by a being with human thoughts because that was their frame of reference. Therefore, this powerful builder must also understand human pain as well. If a mere human doesn't want it, surely this superhuman must vehemently loathe it. If this superhuman can make anything happen, it can punish those who break these laws, even if the authority never finds out. It's simple primitive "logic".

Ironically, power corrupts. When people are given authority, most almost immediately become more controlling and hypocritical. This is the trait of an angry god. More corrupt people emerge offering protection from this god. It gets to the point where a savior is welcomed to represent the oppressed. Unfortunately, power corrupts the savior.

Mike Cl

Yep--Divine Right of Kings.  And absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Randy Carson

Quote from: stromboli on May 17, 2016, 01:14:13 PM
Right Catholicism exists in the real world and has a known origin. Mormonism compares only in that it is a religion. Point is that apologetic sources are for the purpose  of-wait for it- APOLOGETICS!

Consider that Creationism doesn't have much in the way of actual scientific basis, other than what Creationists have hunted out and grafted on to their theory. Scientific method is about discovery and evidence gathered pursuant from that to support or not support the discovery. Evolution is based on discovery and gathering evidence to either prove or disprove it. There is a massive amount of evidence to bolster it as a theory. Creationism starts with a premise- divine origin- and then seeks out evidence to prove the truth of divine origin. The exact opposite of science.

You are aware of the fact that Catholics are cool with evolution and intelligent design, right? Most of us AREN'T creationists.

QuoteIf no bible were written and the Catholic church did not exist, would evidence from historical sources, using scientific method,  discover the existence of Jesus? Get rid of the Catholic Church and you don't have the Council of Nicea, no bible and no record based on sources gathered for that purpose. What is left is a hodge podge of sources from a then-monotheistic cult derived from Mithraism and earlier religions. Had Constantine not seen the value of adopting his mother's religion for the purpose of advancing the state of Rome, the whole existence of Catholicism is called into question.

That's almost like saying get rid of Bill Gates and Steve Jobs and see what you have of the Personal Computer. Almost.

If no Bible were written and the Catholic Church did not exist, then what means of transmission of the message of Jesus would be left?

QuoteAnd if I have an ass ache with religion, It because I have problems with faith-based belief presented as truth, and what is given out as truth with no evidence; a "truth" than condones misogyny, slavery, rape, withholding useful items like birth control and condoms for prevention of unwanted pregnancy. Religion has been the excuse for bad behavior for centuries. Christians burned down the library at Alexandria and the works of Greek scholars because it was in their version evil. We lost vast amounts of knowledge because the good well meaning Christians burned it. Doesn't strike me as either visionary or the work of an enlightened god.

Whoa. Christians burned the library down?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria


QuoteYour god apparently doesn't have a problem with poverty and lower standards of living generated by overpopulation and resultant children that are not adequately cared for by society. Disease, persecution, genocide and destruction of cultures and the invasion of countries- all justified by religions plural and yours specifically.

Why does the existence of these things mean that God doesn't care about them?
Some barrels contain fish that need to be shot.

Baruch

#21
The mob of monks under Cyril of Alexandria, lynched Hypatia in a psycho fashion, and helped in the historical but long term destruction of the Library of Alexandria.  It had been partially destroyed multiple times before and there must have been still more to destroy when the Arabs initially arrived, because they were hot to burn what was left.  Cyril of Alexandria is the one who pushed Marianism ... as a way to incorporate Isis/Horus worship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjQ6lbwN9R8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbuEhwselE0
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.