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The Debate Hall => Informal Debates => Topic started by: Hijiri Byakuren on April 14, 2016, 10:45:23 PM

Title: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on April 14, 2016, 10:45:23 PM
This is one of those questions that tends to rear its ugly head around here every so often, so I figure a dedicated discussion is in order. I'll kick this off by trying to lay out some basic issues that merit discussion.


If I think of anymore relevant questions, I'll update this post.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: PickelledEggs on April 14, 2016, 11:13:42 PM
I'm not sure anyone here is a psychologist/knows of any research...

but imo (in order of your points):
-I don't think is a choice
-yes, I would consider it a mental illness, because it is harmful to society.
-I would say it's a sexual orientation, but we also, if you think of this as a sexual orientation, need to consider that there are also people that get aroused from killing people, which is very clearly considered a mental illness.
-I have no idea. Maybe medication? Something that supresses sexual drive? It feels a bit immoral to do that to someone, but that is the only idea that I have right now. I'm not fixed on it.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: Nonsensei on April 14, 2016, 11:15:37 PM
Being attracted to children is not a choice. Acting on that attraction is a choice.

I don't think its reasonable to suggest that it is a mental illness. The line we draw on the age of consent is essentially arbitrary, based on nothing much beyond modern sensibilities. In history, young children were married off to older people without hesitation. It wasn't considered wrong then, today it is considered wrong. I don't think you can assign a real medical diagnosis of a mental illness based on a modern social construct.

As to stopping pedophiles from acting on their urges, I don't know if that is possible. What are you attracted to? I like women. I can't imagine how I might react if society deemed it revolting and illegal that i pursue a sexual relationship with a woman.

Is it different? In some ways. Obviously women are capable of consent and children are not. But the point is the feeling that scenario elicits in you. That's how pedophiles probably feel. Unless you force them to take some hormone killing drug that eliminates sexual attraction for them entirely I don't really see how you can stop them from trying to act on their attraction.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: Draconic Aiur on April 15, 2016, 12:09:32 AM
So this is something hard for me to talk about. I really hope none of my family sees this. But aside from being gay I am also this. If it's one thing I can tell you for sure is that it's not a choice. Weather or not it's  a mental illness I wouldn't know seeing as how I can't afford to go and a see about it. As a homosexual and a pedo living in a country were both can get you in trouble, from my point of view both are very similar. The only difference is that when I get gay sexual urges I can just go and frap to porn online. However there was nothing online to quench pedo sexual urges until shotacon/lolicon was invented.

I'm a person who doesn't act out my sexual urges on real people. I am very normal amongst kids, even when I'm alone with them. But other people can't help themselves. Most are glad that they get caught so they can get help. Still I do not approve of Child Rape and Child Porn, because that involves hurting someone else. I do approve of shotacon/lolicon however, as they are animated, I would still restrict them to fewer does though. Thing is though because it's illegal, it makes it all the more exhilarating for some people aka the "Romeo and Juliet Syndrome"

I battle this every day along with my depression and anxity. It's like a war in my head. But could you imagine it? Imagine if it was illegal to be straight and everybody associated your kind with rapists. How would you feel? How would you act?

You should join the catholic Church.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: Bluewind on April 15, 2016, 01:11:05 AM
So this is something hard for me to talk about. I really hope none of my family sees this. But aside from being gay I am also this. If it's one thing I can tell you for sure is that it's not a choice. Weather or not it's  a mental illness I wouldn't know seeing as how I can't afford to go and a see about it. As a homosexual and a pedo living in a country were both can get you in trouble, from my point of view both are very similar. The only difference is that when I get gay sexual urges I can just go and frap to porn online. However there was nothing online to quench pedo sexual urges until shotacon/lolicon was invented.

I'm a person who doesn't act out my sexual urges on real people. I am very normal amongst kids, even when I'm alone with them. But other people can't help themselves. Most are glad that they get caught so they can get help. Still I do not approve of Child Rape and Child Porn, because that involves hurting someone else. I do approve of shotacon/lolicon however, as they are animated, I would still restrict them to fewer does though. Thing is though because it's illegal, it makes it all the more exhilarating for some people aka the "Romeo and Juliet Syndrome"

I battle this every day along with my depression and anxity. It's like a war in my head. But could you imagine it? Imagine if it was illegal to be straight and everybody associated your kind with rapists. How would you feel? How would you act?
Fighting this without help is no better than fighting depression without help. Have you looked into a sliding scale program so you can get therapy? Cognitive behavioral might be of some help especially if combined with medication.

I'm not here to judge you. You haven't acted on it which is the important thing nor have you supported child pornography. As Nonsense said, your feelings aren't a choice, but your actions are. I strongly believe that you can be helped if you can get to the right place.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: Baruch on April 15, 2016, 07:01:49 AM
I know a convicted pedophile ... an old man attracted to teenage girls.  I can certainly relate to the feeling, but I draw the line at soliciting or touching.  He is at least guilty of soliciting on-line.  Not a smart move at all, since it was a police sting.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: AkiraTheFighter on April 15, 2016, 09:10:13 AM
You should join the catholic Church.

I see what you did there. Those priest piss me off though. Pretending to be nice and moral then hurting little boys to which the heads protect him if they're caught. Whats even more fucked up is that the bible approves of it.

Fighting this without help is no better than fighting depression without help. Have you looked into a sliding scale program so you can get therapy? Cognitive behavioral might be of some help especially if combined with medication.

I'm not here to judge you. You haven't acted on it which is the important thing nor have you supported child pornography. As Nonsense said, your feelings aren't a choice, but your actions are. I strongly believe that you can be helped if you can get to the right place.

I would if i could afford it. I dunno if there is a sliding scale program in my country. What is it? And while I have to battle with the fact that I'm a pedophile and weatehr or not I'm monster every day, I don't get the sexual urges every day. Ultimately I get it on rare occasions when I'm really really sad and depressed.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: stromboli on April 15, 2016, 11:03:05 AM
I personally don't see how anyone can find a person not even sexually mature desirable, so for me it would have to be a drive rather than a decision. But just like bisexuality, people make choices. I suspect there are numerous people who have desires or inclinations in that direction but are not driven. I think actual pedophilia would have to be considered a drive for that reason, but for the sake of protecting children should certainly be punished. And people should be treated if the drive is so insistent it could lead to acting it out.

I have witnessed incidents with men who were attracted to minor girls, but they were in their own way physically mature enough to be thought of as a woman. I have certainly seen young women who were physically desirable, but again acting on that was not thought of as an option, at least by me. And I also have encountered adult men who have been involved with minor girls, but again it wasn't clear cut pedophilia.

Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: TrueStory on April 15, 2016, 12:45:42 PM
And while I have to battle with the fact that I'm a pedophile and weatehr or not I'm monster every day, I don't get the sexual urges every day. Ultimately I get it on rare occasions when I'm really really sad and depressed.
It sounds like you are using it as a way to manage your feelings.  In that case I would say that learning a healthier way to manage those feelings and developing some coping skills may be a fruitful path. 
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: Bluewind on April 15, 2016, 02:04:43 PM
@AkiraTheFighter
A sliding scale program is when they look at your income and assets and give you a break on the cost of therapy (some places will only charge you as little as 10%!). You might have to look around and call different agencies that can direct you to places you can go. I'm in the US. I'm not sure if it's available in your county or not, but it would be worth a look even if you have to drive a good ways for the service.

You can also look into a program for inexpensive medications. Sometimes medications that are newly released need people who are willing to try them so companies are willing to give people a discount to try them out or even give them for free! You can also tell the doctor your medication price cap so he/she will try you out on less expensive medication.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: RCnal on April 15, 2016, 03:44:46 PM
So this is something hard for me to talk about. I really hope none of my family sees this. But aside from being gay I am also this. If it's one thing I can tell you for sure is that it's not a choice. Weather or not it's  a mental illness I wouldn't know seeing as how I can't afford to go and a see about it. As a homosexual and a pedo living in a country were both can get you in trouble, from my point of view both are very similar. The only difference is that when I get gay sexual urges I can just go and frap to porn online. However there was nothing online to quench pedo sexual urges until shotacon/lolicon was invented.

I'm a person who doesn't act out my sexual urges on real people. I am very normal amongst kids, even when I'm alone with them. But other people can't help themselves. Most are glad that they get caught so they can get help. Still I do not approve of Child Rape and Child Porn, because that involves hurting someone else. I do approve of shotacon/lolicon however, as they are animated, I would still restrict them to fewer does though. Thing is though because it's illegal, it makes it all the more exhilarating for some people aka the "Romeo and Juliet Syndrome"

I battle this every day along with my depression and anxity. It's like a war in my head. But could you imagine it? Imagine if it was illegal to be straight and everybody associated your kind with rapists. How would you feel? How would you act?
Thank you for your honesty and your courage to share this. This is an issue that the world will have to tackle at some point. I'm confident due to laws of averages that there has to be thousands of people like you.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: marom1963 on April 15, 2016, 06:24:41 PM
This is one of those questions that tends to rear its ugly head around here every so often, so I figure a dedicated discussion is in order. I'll kick this off by trying to lay out some basic issues that merit discussion.

  • If pedophilia is a choice, why do people choose to do it?
  • Should pedophilia be considered a mental illness?
  • Is pedophilia a sexual orientation? If not, why should it be distinguished from sexual orientation?
  • What sort of carrot/stick approach would be best to prevent pedophiles from crossing into criminal territory? (Especially since current punishments don't seem to discourage a fair number of them.)
Over time, the age of consent has been moved about like the rope-barrier at a bank - it's placement is quite arbitrary.
The media - and politically convenient - hysteria that has been whipped up over pedophilia has gotten way out of hand in recent years. Society has gone bonkers and needs a good reigning in on this issue. So many people have been black-listed under "Megan's Law" that "Megan's Law" has become a new form of tyranny for probation and parole officers to abuse. A 17 yo who got charged w/statutory rape of his 16 yo girlfriend b/c daddy was pissed off about his little girl was neither a rapist nor a pedophile - but he's both under "Megan's Law" and will spend the rest of his life as a registered sex offender for no good reason - as will the stupid drunk who got caught taking a leak in an alley - "indecent exposure" ...
Pedophiles cannot help themselves.
Does this mean that we allow them to do what they want? No.
What does it mean?
It means that we do not send them to prison, where they are brutally raped by other prisoners as "pay back".
Instead, we can hospitalize them and try to treat them. (Pedophilia is incurable - but we can at least study them.)
"Oh, but their victims!" - "What of their victims? We are talking about justice, not vengeance."

Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: Baruch on April 15, 2016, 06:33:17 PM
Justice is very much about vengeance by the hoi poloi against anyone who is non-conformist.  Justice is a worthless abstract concept.

I have had to publicly take a piss, and I wasn't even drunk.  Fortunately one of our fine constabulary didn't catch me.  I pissed against the tire well of my own car.

Calvinists all ... find everyone guilty, apply the death penalty for every violation ... otherwise our sky-daddy will be displeased and withhold the rain.  Canaanite.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: doorknob on April 18, 2016, 10:26:23 PM
I don't think all cases are pedophilia as with a boyfriend one year older. There are many cases where the lines are moved about.

Still

there is something wrong with a 60 year old man ogling a teenage girl. On the same token it's equally sick if a woman does it to a teenage boy. What the hell do you see in a teenage boy any way? Certainly not security. And 60 year old man? Yes I'm sure you and the teenage girl will have lots to relate on.

While yes in the olden days girls as young as 12 were married off. Just because it was socially acceptable didn't make it right. Just as slavery was once socially acceptable it was still always wrong. But now we know better. So an adult male should not be messing around with teenage girls. It's definitely a predatory thing. Can't handle women your own age huh? Women on equal footing. Gotta go after a young inexperienced teenage girl who barely handles other teenage boys let alone an adult male.

So sorry any one under 18 is off limits. It's questionable whether you are really an adult at 18 any way. I know I didn't grow up for a long time after. There are some things that only come with age. While maybe there should be guidelines about how much  older is too much older grey area's exist. It is ridiculous if an 18 year old gets a rap for dating a 17 year old. This is where a judge would have to use common sense yet they fail to every time.

Oh yeah back to the OT No I don't think it is a choice. There may very well be some people who do choose it just as there are in fact some people who chose to be gay but those people are far and few in between. For the most part a person would not choose this. But acting on this is wrong and needs to be treated with therapy. Cognitive therapy is very useful, but also probably medicated. Medications can help clear up thoughts the way glasses clear up vision. Once you become a healthy thinker you will not struggle as hard. I had to change a lot of things about myself. The best way to do it is to just walk away from unhealthy or even sick thoughts and forget about them. Delete it from your mind. Follow your heart and do the right thing will naturally help clear up evil thoughts. Fill your head with positive things.Also doing good deeds no matter how mundane can really make a difference both in a neighbors life and your own.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: marom1963 on April 19, 2016, 05:20:12 AM
Chattel slavery as we practiced it in the US was certainly wrong. However, "slavery" as it was practiced in Ancient Rome was not at all like the slavery that we practiced here. In fact, it more resembled modern employment than chattel slavery. No, the slaves could not just leave when they wanted, but they had rights that had to be scrupulously cared for, including the possession of their wages. They also had guilds to which they could belong that invested their earnings to help them purchase their freedom.Secretary, librarian, teacher, chef, accountant, physician, dancer, artist, government bureaucrat - just some of the occupations that were entirely servile in nature. Only soldiers and lawyers had to be free men. (By the by, it was the soldiers who built Rome's roads, not slaves.)
As for the ages of consent, when I said that it was moved about like the rope at a bank, I meant nowadays, not the past. All over the World, it varies.
As for the past, w/a much shorter life span, getting married at age 12 was not unreasonable. As life-span has increased, the span of childhood has telescoped to an almost ridiculous length. And we have invented something that did not exist in the past: adolescence. To a large extent, this has to do w/delaying the entry of even more young men and women into the work force. The lack of experience that goes w/being young was, in the past, treated for what it was - lack of experience, not a special disease that afflicts the young.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: TomFoolery on April 19, 2016, 06:40:25 AM
Justice is very much about vengeance by the hoi poloi against anyone who is non-conformist.  Justice is a worthless abstract concept.
I disagree. Vengeance is about trying to fix the past, but justice implies trying to fix the future.

Rather than debate the gray area about about 16 and 17 year olds and maturity level and biology and social norms, I'll just go out on a limb and refer to the 13 and under crowd in my definition of pedophilia.

Is pedophilia a choice? No, but that shouldn't mean it gets confused with being appropriate. That also shouldn't mean that other things that aren't a choice such as homosexuality get labelled "icky" either.

Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: marom1963 on April 19, 2016, 06:57:56 AM
I can go for that.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: Baruch on April 19, 2016, 07:13:47 AM
Chattel slavery as we practiced it in the US was certainly wrong. However, "slavery" as it was practiced in Ancient Rome was not at all like the slavery that we practiced here. In fact, it more resembled modern employment than chattel slavery. No, the slaves could not just leave when they wanted, but they had rights that had to be scrupulously cared for, including the possession of their wages. They also had guilds to which they could belong that invested their earnings to help them purchase their freedom.Secretary, librarian, teacher, chef, accountant, physician, dancer, artist, government bureaucrat - just some of the occupations that were entirely servile in nature. Only soldiers and lawyers had to be free men. (By the by, it was the soldiers who built Rome's roads, not slaves.)
As for the ages of consent, when I said that it was moved about like the rope at a bank, I meant nowadays, not the past. All over the World, it varies.
As for the past, w/a much shorter life span, getting married at age 12 was not unreasonable. As life-span has increased, the span of childhood has telescoped to an almost ridiculous length. And we have invented something that did not exist in the past: adolescence. To a large extent, this has to do w/delaying the entry of even more young men and women into the work force. The lack of experience that goes w/being young was, in the past, treated for what it was - lack of experience, not a special disease that afflicts the young.

Yes, there are different cultures.  African-American slavery was a special creature designed for its time and place.  There are many kinds of approved and disapproved slavery however ... wage and debt slavery, particularly debt slavery ... is on the rise, not decline.  Self congratulations are not merited.  There were times when even American colonial slavery was funny ...

There once was a Scottish girl who was shipped off to the American colonies, because of her bad situation at home, that is how we used to dispose of the undesirable before we had Australia and Canada.  She knew that the American South was much hotter than Scotland.  As it happened, when she first disembarked, she caught her first sight of Black folk working in the port.  These happened to have been "acculturated" by fellow Scotts, so they talked like her, not like the English.  She was in shock at first, thinking that these were Scots who had gotten too baked in the hot sun (a belief about Africans dating back to ancient times), and was concerned her skin and hair would darken too ;-)

Roman slavery wasn't funny however, just ask Spartacus.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on April 20, 2016, 08:51:01 PM
Forget the age of consent argument.  I know it's very redundant to say this in any thread about the subject, but the line for pedophilia is puberty.  Having had the misfortune to spend some quality time with a pedo back when I was a child, I find it very offensive when people confuse "undger-age" and "prepubescent."
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: marom1963 on April 20, 2016, 09:24:21 PM
Forget the age of consent argument.  I know it's very redundant to say this in any thread about the subject, but the line for pedophilia is puberty.  Having had the misfortune to spend some quality time with a pedo back when I was a child, I find it very offensive when people confuse "undger-age" and "prepubescent."
No, that's not a line that should be crossed. An 18 year-old w/a 16 year-old, I can turn a blind eye. A 30 year-old w/the same 16 year-old, and I'm calling the cops. That's the type of judicial discretion that I'm talking about. I'm not for putting a 14 year-old in prison b/c he had sex w/another 14 year-old. But gung-ho prosecutors have been known to try such cases. Megan's Law needs some re-tooling. I personally know a boy - 19 years-old - who has to register as a sex offender b/c he took a leak in an alley and got charged w/indecent exposure - a dark alley, in the middle of the night, the only one who saw him was the cop who followed him up the alley. That's ridiculous. A stiff fine and some community service would have been enough - not a life-time of being a registered sex offender for taking a leak.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on April 22, 2016, 09:27:37 PM
No, that's not a line that should be crossed. An 18 year-old w/a 16 year-old, I can turn a blind eye. A 30 year-old w/the same 16 year-old, and I'm calling the cops. That's the type of judicial discretion that I'm talking about. I'm not for putting a 14 year-old in prison b/c he had sex w/another 14 year-old. But gung-ho prosecutors have been known to try such cases. Megan's Law needs some re-tooling. I personally know a boy - 19 years-old - who has to register as a sex offender b/c he took a leak in an alley and got charged w/indecent exposure - a dark alley, in the middle of the night, the only one who saw him was the cop who followed him up the alley. That's ridiculous. A stiff fine and some community service would have been enough - not a life-time of being a registered sex offender for taking a leak.
No, he's correct. After puberty, you're crossing into ephebophile territory. This thread is about pedophilia, not ephebophilia.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: aitm on April 22, 2016, 10:51:45 PM
there is something wrong with a 60 year old man ogling a teenage girl. On the same token it's equally sick if a woman does it to a teenage boy. What the hell do you see in a teenage boy any way? Certainly not security. And 60 year old man? Yes I'm sure you and the teenage girl will have lots to relate on. .

As much as we scream, it seems the world, in reality, does not agree. In public, they agree, but privately….ah..the real world is far more grey than black and white.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: marom1963 on April 22, 2016, 11:22:11 PM
As much as we scream, it seems the world, in reality, does not agree. In public, they agree, but privately….ah..the real world is far more grey than black and white.
What in public? For millenniums, it has been common to allow old men to marry young girls simply because old men can still father children, whereas old women cannot get pregnant. Wealthy old men have always had easy access to young girls. This does not mean that old women do not look at young men - but they have not had access to them, unless they were wealthy - and very discrete, simply b/c it has not been socially acceptable for them to have young lovers. W/the changing status of women, this may change.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: FaithIsFilth on April 24, 2016, 04:11:57 PM
  • If pedophilia is a choice, why do people choose to do it?
I don't think it's a choice, but people rape or molest kids for the same reason they rape or molest adults. For sexual pleasure or for a feeling of power over that person.

Someone earlier in the thread said they couldn't understand why we would be attracted to a prepubescent body. To that I would say, don't bother trying to understand it. It's like a straight guy looking at a naked guy with his ass spread and trying to understand why that is attractive to gay guys. If we aren't gay, we aren't supposed to understand that attraction. Attraction just is. Why am I attracted to what I'm attracted to? Because I'm attracted to it. That's the only answer I can really give.

Quote
  • Should pedophilia be considered a mental illness?
If the person suffers mental distress from their pedophilia, or has urges to hurt children, then yes, that is mental illness.

Quote
  • Is pedophilia a sexual orientation? If not, why should it be distinguished from sexual orientation?
Sure. I don't see why not. Some experts are starting to call it a sexual orientation. Calling it an orientation is not in any way agreeing that it's ok to have sex with or molest kids, and it's not disagreeing with the point that children can not give consent. Homosexuality means same sex attraction. Heterosexuality means opposite sex attraction... We are talking about attraction here, not necessarily the physical act of sex. Pedophilia means attraction to pre-pubescents. Some don't like calling it an orientation though, because they think that is making the statement that pedophilia is ok and normal, and that it should just be accepted like any other orientation is accepted, and that people are going to think pedophiles don't need help or something if it's just accepted as normal.

Quote
  • What sort of carrot/stick approach would be best to prevent pedophiles from crossing into criminal territory? (Especially since current punishments don't seem to discourage a fair number of them.)
I don't know. Making it easier for pedophiles who need help to go get the help would be a good start. Follow in the footsteps of other countries who have had success in this area.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: Jannabear on July 05, 2016, 07:52:30 AM
I know a convicted pedophile ... an old man attracted to teenage girls.  I can certainly relate to the feeling, but I draw the line at soliciting or touching.  He is at least guilty of soliciting on-line.  Not a smart move at all, since it was a police sting.
Pedophilia is the sexual attraction to prepubescent children, calling someone attracted to teens a pedophile is silly.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: stromboli on July 05, 2016, 09:20:01 AM
Have had situations where girls (in Scotland) that were quite mature and also quite happy to meet sailors, because marrying a person from the U.S. at the time was a way out of their bad situation. One girl was 14, another 16. You'd never know from their appearance.

But that is something quite different. Acting to take advantage of a prepubescent child deliberately is inexcusable, period. I've known Mormon elders who were married and had a "polygamy" moment being attracted to underage girls. I knew a 30+ year old man who married a girl the second she turned 18. He was a Seminary teacher and she was one of his students. totally legal and happily allowed by the parents, but he was grooming her as a student. That stinks. And it was never condemned either by the community or the church.

Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: doorknob on July 05, 2016, 04:59:50 PM
I'm sorry but marrying girls because they were in a horrible situation (oh yes you're her hero )and that in no way is taking advantage of some one in a less fortunate situation then your self! You can help people with out marrying them and then further obligating them to your self. That's dishonest and discussing!

any one can scream and disagree but old men with teenage girl is a predator taking advantage of some one too young and stupid to defend them self. I was one of those teenage girls who was constantly attacked by OLD men. I did not solicit this! Eventually I learned how to be loud and ignorant and even that doesn't deter them. My poor sister was practically raped by a customer in a store where she worked. Her boss straight up said as long as she wasn't raped he didn't care! I even would say some one in their 20's any one older than 21 should not be messing with teenage girls. It's pretty likely that alcohol will be involved in those situations ( I know that's why I looked for men over 21 and no other reason than that). 

It's bad news no matter how you slice it! I don't give two shit's who married who at what age in the past! That was the past when we did many bad and ignorant things. We have grown as a society and know better now! It disheartens me to see so many men support teenage to adult relationships and I"m not talk a few years apart. I'm talking a grown man who knows better. It's predatory and it sickens me! If you can't tell predator behavior from normal behavior then something is wrong with you, you might want to check your self!

What is so wrong with dating some one your own age or ,at least close to it, any how? People on this forum are acting like it's their god given right to target a teenager! Other than using you for money or alcohol or drugs there isn't a teen age girl who wants a 30 + some year old man! That's not true love that's just fucked up! And the fact that so many people are trying to justify this type of behavior scares the shit out of me! No wonder I was sexually harassed and practically raped in my teenage years! Too many people are condoning this sort of behavior! Thanks for supporting predators!

BTW I didn't mean you stromboli I think you nailed it on the head when you said he was grooming her.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: Jannabear on July 06, 2016, 07:15:08 AM
I'm sorry but marrying girls because they were in a horrible situation (oh yes you're her hero )and that in no way is taking advantage of some one in a less fortunate situation then your self! You can help people with out marrying them and then further obligating them to your self. That's dishonest and discussing!

any one can scream and disagree but old men with teenage girl is a predator taking advantage of some one too young and stupid to defend them self. I was one of those teenage girls who was constantly attacked by OLD men. I did not solicit this! Eventually I learned how to be loud and ignorant and even that doesn't deter them. My poor sister was practically raped by a customer in a store where she worked. Her boss straight up said as long as she wasn't raped he didn't care! I even would say some one in their 20's any one older than 21 should not be messing with teenage girls. It's pretty likely that alcohol will be involved in those situations ( I know that's why I looked for men over 21 and no other reason than that). 

It's bad news no matter how you slice it! I don't give two shit's who married who at what age in the past! That was the past when we did many bad and ignorant things. We have grown as a society and know better now! It disheartens me to see so many men support teenage to adult relationships and I"m not talk a few years apart. I'm talking a grown man who knows better. It's predatory and it sickens me! If you can't tell predator behavior from normal behavior then something is wrong with you, you might want to check your self!

What is so wrong with dating some one your own age or ,at least close to it, any how? People on this forum are acting like it's their god given right to target a teenager! Other than using you for money or alcohol or drugs there isn't a teen age girl who wants a 30 + some year old man! That's not true love that's just fucked up! And the fact that so many people are trying to justify this type of behavior scares the shit out of me! No wonder I was sexually harassed and practically raped in my teenage years! Too many people are condoning this sort of behavior! Thanks for supporting predators!

BTW I didn't mean you stromboli I think you nailed it on the head when you said he was grooming her.
I have to disagree with you.
Are many teenagers not able to handle that level of commitment to another person, yes, but youre making a generalization, you ignore the fact that SOME, are.
Not every teenager is a braindead retard as youd try to portray them.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on July 06, 2016, 11:48:24 AM
I have to disagree with you.
Are many teenagers not able to handle that level of commitment to another person, yes, but youre making a generalization, you ignore the fact that SOME, are.
Not every teenager is a braindead retard as youd try to portray them.
No, as a former teenager myself I can confirm that every teenager is as braindead as she portrays them.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: doorknob on July 06, 2016, 02:07:58 PM
I have to disagree with you.
Are many teenagers not able to handle that level of commitment to another person, yes, but youre making a generalization, you ignore the fact that SOME, are.
Not every teenager is a braindead retard as youd try to portray them.

I never said they were retarded or brain dead. Simply they lack experience. How do you expect a 16 year old girl to handle a 30 year old? There is some wisdom that only comes with age. Also an adult is a person in power a teenager is not. They still can not live on their own or support them selves. They don't have the same level of responsibility yet. It has nothing to do with intelligence.

And also commitment has little to do with it. Adults aren't exactly shining examples of commitment any way. How many people get divorced?
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: marom1963 on July 06, 2016, 02:14:37 PM
No, as a former teenager myself I can confirm that every teenager is as braindead as she portrays them.
Now, come on, they're not braindead - they just lack experience ... I'm not saying that it's OK for them to take up w/older lovers, mind you, no ... But, please, be fair - kids are not stupid; they just don't know because they haven't learned yet, is all. They'll learn. They're all right. You can't hold lack of experience against someone who hasn't had time and opportunity to have that experience against him/her. That's not fair ... And, no, they don't realize that they don't have the experience, and, yes, most of them come w/an attitude, and, yes, that can get on your nerves - but we were all teenagers once, so we can afford to be understanding and forgive a little bit. They don't know any better. I'm telling you - they'll learn. They'll be all right.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on July 06, 2016, 02:15:26 PM
Now, come on, they're not braindead - they just lack experience ... I'm not saying that it's OK for them to take up w/older lovers, mind you, no ... But, please, be fair - kids are not stupid; they just don't know because they haven't learned yet, is all. They'll learn. They're all right. You can't hold lack of experience against someone who hasn't had time and opportunity to have that experience against him/her. That's not fair ... And, no, they don't realize that they don't have the experience, and, yes, most of them come w/an attitude, and, yes, that can get on your nerves - but we were all teenagers once, so we can afford to be understanding and forgive a little bit. They don't know any better. I'm telling you - they'll learn. They'll be all right.
No they're definitely brain-dead.


Fair and balanced (like Fox News).
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: FaithIsFilth on July 07, 2016, 04:42:46 AM
I'm sorry but marrying girls because they were in a horrible situation (oh yes you're her hero )and that in no way is taking advantage of some one in a less fortunate situation then your self! You can help people with out marrying them and then further obligating them to your self. That's dishonest and discussing!

any one can scream and disagree but old men with teenage girl is a predator taking advantage of some one too young and stupid to defend them self. I was one of those teenage girls who was constantly attacked by OLD men. I did not solicit this! Eventually I learned how to be loud and ignorant and even that doesn't deter them. My poor sister was practically raped by a customer in a store where she worked. Her boss straight up said as long as she wasn't raped he didn't care! I even would say some one in their 20's any one older than 21 should not be messing with teenage girls. It's pretty likely that alcohol will be involved in those situations ( I know that's why I looked for men over 21 and no other reason than that). 

It's bad news no matter how you slice it! I don't give two shit's who married who at what age in the past! That was the past when we did many bad and ignorant things. We have grown as a society and know better now! It disheartens me to see so many men support teenage to adult relationships and I"m not talk a few years apart. I'm talking a grown man who knows better. It's predatory and it sickens me! If you can't tell predator behavior from normal behavior then something is wrong with you, you might want to check your self!

What is so wrong with dating some one your own age or ,at least close to it, any how? People on this forum are acting like it's their god given right to target a teenager! Other than using you for money or alcohol or drugs there isn't a teen age girl who wants a 30 + some year old man! That's not true love that's just fucked up! And the fact that so many people are trying to justify this type of behavior scares the shit out of me! No wonder I was sexually harassed and practically raped in my teenage years! Too many people are condoning this sort of behavior! Thanks for supporting predators!

BTW I didn't mean you stromboli I think you nailed it on the head when you said he was grooming her.
What I see here is an emotional outburst. Exclamation mark after exclamation mark. It sucks that you were practically raped, or that your sister was abused, but what you are arguing for here is to make teenage girls LESS safe. Upping the age of consent where it is 16 would be a very irresponsible thing to do. Younger girls are less likely to get themselves tested for STDs if you up the age of consent. That's just one of the reasons not to have it higher than 16, but people ignore things like that and can't see through the fog of emotion that is causing you to support something that would actually harm young girls. You say thanks for supporting predators? I say thanks for supporting making young girls less safe. If it makes girls safer, I have no issue with being told I "support predators".
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: doorknob on July 07, 2016, 10:30:18 AM
What I see here is an emotional outburst. Exclamation mark after exclamation mark. It sucks that you were practically raped, or that your sister was abused, but what you are arguing for here is to make teenage girls LESS safe. Upping the age of consent where it is 16 would be a very irresponsible thing to do. Younger girls are less likely to get themselves tested for STDs if you up the age of consent. That's just one of the reasons not to have it higher than 16, but people ignore things like that and can't see through the fog of emotion that is causing you to support something that would actually harm young girls. You say thanks for supporting predators? I say thanks for supporting making young girls less safe. If it makes girls safer, I have no issue with being told I "support predators".

I'm sorry maybe I'm miss understanding something here?

I did not say anything about upping the age of consent to 16.

Maybe you got my post mixed in with some one else's post.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: FaithIsFilth on July 07, 2016, 04:19:04 PM
Sorry for the misunderstanding then. You did write that teenage girls were too young and stupid to defend themselves, so that's why I assumed you wanted to up the age. As long as you just object to old people being with teens morally and not legally, then I guess that's not as bad, but still, you are stereotyping all older people (who are breaking no laws) as predators, based on the things you've experienced in your own life. That's not fair at all, just like it's not fair to stereotype blacks as being nothing but a bunch of criminals because you happen to have been robbed by a black guy. By calling every adult who goes after a teen a predator, you are severely cheapening the word. I think the word should be reserved for those who actually have illegality in mind. It should be reserved for the molesters and the rapists, otherwise you cheapen the word to the point where it doesn't mean anything.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: doorknob on July 07, 2016, 07:11:57 PM
Sorry but you're wrong. Predator is a perfect word for it.


A teenager will never be on equal footing as and older adult. Right there is a huge opening for abuse of authority. This type of relation ship is not positive. There is some knowledge and wisdom you can only gain with age. Some one who is older will likely have the upper hand.

Also you are mentally ill if you think you relate to a teenager better then your own peers. That is not NORMAL! Being attracted to one sure, I've got eyes I can see when some one is hot but the difference is I have no interest in a teenager who can offer me literally nothing but illegal sex! I don't care how mature you think a teenager is they are never mature enough to handle a relationship with an adult. There are some things you only gain with age and years of experience. 16 years or younger is not enough time to be on an equal ground with an adult.

Normal healthy men do not seek out teenagers predators do. Yes I've heard that men always think a 16 year old girl is hot (usually until they have a 16 year old daughter). Hell the young are just plain better looking all around that's a no brainer.

I'm sickened that people are trying to justify this. It is clearly taking advantage of some one younger and more ignorant and should not be encouraged for any reason. There's a reason 18 is the age of consent and it for no reason should be lowered to 16. Men are just thinking with their dicks on this one. Why is it you don't see women trying get with under age teenagers except in rare cases. You don't see women standing in groups ogling teenage boys saying "oh yeah I wish I could tap that!"

Let me tell you something it's not that we can't SEE that a teenage boy is hot or attractive, we can see it. It's just that we know looking is OK maybe even fantasizing but acting on it would be harmful for the teenage boy. Well same goes for a teenage girl.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: FaithIsFilth on July 08, 2016, 01:14:16 AM
I'm wrong because what? Feelings?

So now you're not only stereotyping men who go after teens as being all predators, even when they have committed no crime and are nothing more than "icky" to you, but you are now a sexist as well?

So you do think the age of consent should be over 16. I see. That is an extremely irrational and irresponsible position to have imo. There is a reason that health organizations think that it should be way lower than 18. They actually consider health, unlike those who disagree with them and are clouded by emotion. I understand that you have had to deal with abuse in your own life, so it sickens you that people would try to justify what you are against, but your position is one that sickens many different health organizations. For instance, if you have an 18 year age of consent, people younger than that are going to be less likely to get checked out because they think society thinks they are doing something wrong by having sex before they are supposed to be having sex, so a young person may not get checked out for that reason.

Since when do people have to be on equal footing when having sex? What kind of a ridiculous notion is that? You should be on equal footing? What the heck does that even mean? You have to find a partner exactly as mature as you are? Can an intelligent adult not have sexual relations with a stupid adult? If an intelligent and very mature teenager has sexual relations with a stupid adult, does that mean the teen was the one taking advantage of the adult? Can a poor adult not be with a rich adult, because the rich person is not on equal footing with them and therefore could be taking advantage of them? Should a rich teen not be with a poor adult, because the rich teen is taking advantage of the poor adult? This equal footing thing is one of the silliest things I have heard in a while. The law in many US states is 16. They have decided that most 16 year olds are mature enough to make that choice. That means they are mature enough to decide what they are going to do with their own body, whether they choose to be with a 16 year old or a 110 year old.

You say healthy men do not seek out teenagers? There is nothing unhealthy about that at all. You just can't get past the ick. That means you are the one with the problem. Not them.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: Draconic Aiur on July 08, 2016, 02:50:37 AM
I'm wrong because what? Feelings?

So now you're not only stereotyping men who go after teens as being all predators, even when they have committed no crime and are nothing more than "icky" to you, but you are now a sexist as well?

So you do think the age of consent should be over 16. I see. That is an extremely irrational and irresponsible position to have imo. There is a reason that health organizations think that it should be way lower than 18. They actually consider health, unlike those who disagree with them and are clouded by emotion. I understand that you have had to deal with abuse in your own life, so it sickens you that people would try to justify what you are against, but your position is one that sickens many different health organizations. For instance, if you have an 18 year age of consent, people younger than that are going to be less likely to get checked out because they think society thinks they are doing something wrong by having sex before they are supposed to be having sex, so a young person may not get checked out for that reason.

Since when do people have to be on equal footing when having sex? What kind of a ridiculous notion is that? You should be on equal footing? What the heck does that even mean? You have to find a partner exactly as mature as you are? Can an intelligent adult not have sexual relations with a stupid adult? If an intelligent and very mature teenager has sexual relations with a stupid adult, does that mean the teen was the one taking advantage of the adult? Can a poor adult not be with a rich adult, because the rich person is not on equal footing with them and therefore could be taking advantage of them? Should a rich teen not be with a poor adult, because the rich teen is taking advantage of the poor adult? This equal footing thing is one of the silliest things I have heard in a while. The law in many US states is 16. They have decided that most 16 year olds are mature enough to make that choice. That means they are mature enough to decide what they are going to do with their own body, whether they choose to be with a 16 year old or a 110 year old.

You say healthy men do not seek out teenagers? There is nothing unhealthy about that at all. You just can't get past the ick. That means you are the one with the problem. Not them.

Doesnt mean 16 year olds know whats good for them. Hell most are fucking stupid, and if you range all of them you can sure as hell guess when their 18 theyll still be fucking stupid. Men who are healthy tend to go for girls who are around their age sometimes younger or older but the deal is not underage (men like mature women) and that goes for mentally too. If you get off to a jailbait that are immature, your a wacko that no sane father will ever let you around their daughters. Also if were going by legally I can say if your a 110 year old man or woman you should no better.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: FaithIsFilth on July 08, 2016, 02:46:43 PM
Men who are healthy tend to go for girls who are around their age sometimes younger or older but the deal is not underage (men like mature women) and that goes for mentally too. If you get off to a jailbait that are immature, your a wacko that no sane father will ever let you around their daughters. Also if were going by legally I can say if your a 110 year old man or woman you should no better.
Can you provide me with a link with a professional saying these things? That healthy men go for girls around their own age? You just made that up, didn't you? Come on now.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: Draconic Aiur on July 08, 2016, 02:56:53 PM
Can you provide me with a link with a professional saying these things? That healthy men go for girls around their own age? You just made that up, didn't you? Come on now.

Basic common sense.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: doorknob on July 08, 2016, 03:00:32 PM
http://www.thefrisky.com/2011-03-31/guy-talk-is-it-natural-for-older-guys-to-lust-after-young-wom
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: FaithIsFilth on July 08, 2016, 03:04:04 PM
Basic common sense.
lol so that's no link then, because you completely made that up? I see.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: FaithIsFilth on July 08, 2016, 03:41:17 PM
Quote
Even if it were “natural,” there’s nothing innocent or harmless or healthy about older men pursuing substantially younger women. The cost is high to everyone involved. While a few young women may be attracted to much older guys (often because they falsely imagine themselves to be “so much more mature” than “other girls” their age), most are like Amber—disheartened and disgusted by the endless parade of men 10, 20, or 40 years older who harass and hit on them. These young women aren’t flattered. And even if they seem flattered at the time, it doesn’t mean the attention from older men isn’t doing great harm.
"There's nothing healthy about pursuing substantially younger women." The writer is giving her opinion here, rather than actually showing that men who pursue younger girls have a health impairment. The writer is saying that she doesn't think relationships between teens and adults are healthy. I'm sure you can find a lot of people saying that. This wasn't the claim I was disputing. I was disputing the claim that men who don't stick with women around their own age are unhealthy. Your article says that older men are doing great harm, but is that the case when you have a 65 year old man with a 24 year old woman, or a 55 year old man with a 35 year old woman? If the answer is no, then his claim about men being unhealthy unless they stick with around their own age range has been shown to be wrong.

Quote
“Girls who choose men so far out of their age ranges,” Cohen writes, “tend toward low self-esteem and depression.”
This is saying that the girls are the ones with the mental health issues.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: doorknob on July 08, 2016, 03:45:48 PM
Seriously a teenager doesn't want a 30+ year old man. That is the old mans ego/fantasy. FYI it's wrong to force your self on some one and, that is the case with these types of men. Maybe in an extremely rare case will a teenager fall in love with a 30+ but that's extremely rare. We shouldn't be opening the door for these pervs to be molesting and ogling young teenage girls for something so ridiculous as a true love between teen and old man.

So yes you are supporting the predators. What's the matter did I burst your fantasy of getting it on with a 16 year old? Fantasy is one thing but reality is a totally different thing. The reality is teenagers do not fucking want you! You have no business flirting with a 16 year old that IS common sense. If you are that stupid then you deserve to go to jail and worse.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: Draconic Aiur on July 08, 2016, 03:47:30 PM
Agree with above^^
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2016, 04:04:24 PM
Since when do people have to be on equal footing when having sex? What kind of a ridiculous notion is that? You should be on equal footing? What the heck does that even mean?

See, you still don't get it. Every thread about pedophilia or age of sexual consent sooner or later gets to a point with you writing the same bullshit.

It's really not important if people are on equal footing about having sex or not. Doesn't matter what they or you feel about it. It doesn't matter what people think because they are sexually attracted to people much younger or older than them.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE A STANDARD TO DEFINE PEOPLE AS ADULTS. And in the most places this standard is determined as 18. For many reasons. This age IS NOT JUST ABOUT HAVING SEX. It's also a LIMIT for drinking, getting a driving licence and voting in most countries.

:arrow: When you were a teenager you didn't think about this issue. When you were a teenager you didn't even realise this was an issue. You didn't have the mental fortitude or the life experience to think about this as a general issue of life, BECAUSE a teenager CANNOT DO THAT. I don't care if 'some' or 'a few' can. If you cannot see this as an issue at an age concerning its possible consequences, you are not at the age to DO IT. BUT you keep arguing about it this AS AN ADULT because of your personal sexual tendencies.

If it was 16, you'd be arguing for 14. Or somebody will argue for 12 from his/her perspective. Or another 10.

So cut the crap. Nobody needs to be abused or raped to get this picture. I have never been abused or raped, I don't have kids and I get it. 

Every time this issue is up, you are talking with an air as if there were some main health institutions actually defending lowering age of consent seriously, as if this issue just lies on physical or even emotional maturity alone. Ask the first parents you see what they think about their son or daughter having sex under 18 -or even over- with a much older adult. Get your answer. If you find someone who'd respond with 'oh why not', alert the media. It's gonna be big news.


Anyone who claims that teenagers can make an adult decision about anything is either a teenager or has the emotional maturity of one. But in your case you are obssessed with it because of personal reasons. So stop selling it as if it was some common solution.



Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: FaithIsFilth on July 08, 2016, 04:11:00 PM
Seriously a teenager doesn't want a 30+ year old man. That is the old mans ego/fantasy. FYI it's wrong to force your self on some one and, that is the case with these types of men. Maybe in an extremely rare case will a teenager fall in love with a 30+ but that's extremely rare. We shouldn't be opening the door for these pervs to be molesting and ogling young teenage girls for something so ridiculous as a true love between teen and old man.

So yes you are supporting the predators. What's the matter did I burst your fantasy of getting it on with a 16 year old? Fantasy is one thing but reality is a totally different thing. The reality is teenagers do not fucking want you! You have no business flirting with a 16 year old that IS common sense. If you are that stupid then you deserve to go to jail and worse.
Of course it's wrong to force yourself on someone, and you should also obey the law where you live when it comes to age of consent. You shouldn't have sexual relations with a 16 year old if the law says you can't. That is a given. No disagreement there.

The age of consent where I live is 16, as is the case in the rest of Canada, many US states, and a large part of the Western world. The United States is a lot more conservative than a lot of the Western world, so they do still have it as 18 in a lot of places. Don't worry though. 16 year olds are nothing special to me. When I see the average 16 year old, my first thought is usually that she is half a decade past her prime. 16 year olds and girls in their 20s don't look much different to me, so I don't need a 16 year old.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: doorknob on July 08, 2016, 04:22:35 PM
Of course it's wrong to force yourself on someone, and you should also obey the law where you live when it comes to age of consent. You shouldn't have sexual relations with a 16 year old if the law says you can't. That is a given. No disagreement there.

The age of consent where I live is 16, as is the case in the rest of Canada, many US states, and a large part of the Western world. The United States is a lot more conservative than a lot of the Western world, so they do still have it as 18 in a lot of places. Don't worry though. 16 year olds are nothing special to me. When I see the average 16 year old, my first thought is usually that she is half a decade past her prime. 16 year olds and girls in their 20s don't look much different to me, so I don't need a 16 year old.

You say it's wrong but many of these dumb asses don't know that. I'm not the only girl I've ever spoke to about this issue. Almost every woman/girl what ever I've talked to has had the same problem with older men at 16 or younger sexually harassing them and forcing them selves in some way on them. You are sitting here defending the rights of old men to have a 16 year old sex partner. A 16 year old is not at an age to handle an adult male! I know I sure as shit wasn't. NO ONE is at that age. No matter how intelligent or mature they are intelligence has nothing to do with it. Experience and wisdom that can ONLY come with age is the issue. I don't know of a single situation where an adult male should be messing around with a teenager.

And by the sounds of things you are looking at 10 year olds! Well no fucking wonder you think it's ok for an adult to have a sexual relation ship with a minor.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: FaithIsFilth on July 08, 2016, 04:36:59 PM
See, you still don't get it. Every thread about pedophilia or age of sexual consent sooner or later gets to a point with you writing the same bullshit.
If the law says that the person is mature enough to make that choice for themselves (their body, their choice), then you don't have to be "on equal footing" or just as mature as the most mature adults in the world. That's silly. You're either mature enough to decide what you do with your body, or you're not, and where I am, 16 year olds are considered old enough to make that choice for themselves. In most of the Western world (the parts that aren't completely backwards thinking), the age of consent is far lower than 18.

Quote
THE PROBLEM IS THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE A STANDARD TO DEFINE PEOPLE AS ADULTS. And in the most places this standard is determined as 18. For many reasons. This age IS NOT JUST ABOUT HAVING SEX. It's also a LIMIT for drinking, getting a driving licence and voting in most countries.
The standard is determined to be 18 in backwards thinking places. There's a reason that the most liberal countries have the lower age of consent.

Quote
:arrow: When you were a teenager you didn't think about this issue. When you were a teenager you didn't even realise this was an issue. You didn't have the mental fortitude or the life experience to think about this as a general issue of life, BECAUSE a teenager CANNOT DO THAT. I don't care if 'some' or 'a few' can. If you cannot see this as an issue at an age concerning its possible consequences, you are not at the age to DO IT. BUT you keep arguing about it this AS AN ADULT because of your personal sexual tendencies.
I thought about this plenty when I was a teenager, and my position now is the same it was then. I sided with the health organizations/ child welfare organizations then, and I still do. I don't think young people should be treated like little babies.

Quote
If it was 16, you'd be arguing for 14. Or somebody will argue for 12 from his/her perspective. Or another 10.
Well, I have argued for 14, but for the sake of not causing too much drama, for now I'm going to argue for 16... whether that is my true position or not.

Quote
Every time this issue is up, you are talking with an air as if there were some main health institutions actually defending lowering age of consent seriously, as if this issue just lies on physical or even emotional maturity alone. Ask the first parents you see what they think about their son or daughter having sex under 18 -or even over- with a much older adult. Get your answer. If you find someone who'd respond with 'oh why not', alert the media. It's gonna be big news.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent_reform_in_Canada

The Child Welfare League of Canada, the Canadian AIDS Society, the Canadian Federation for Sexual Health (formerly International Planned Parenthood Federation), and the Canadian Children's Rights Council. They all argued against raising the age of consent from 14 to 16. I shit you not. I can only imagine what they would think about your extreme idea to have the age of consent be 18. I think you growing up in such a conservative country certainly has something to do with your views on age of consent. With most things, you are far left and have been able to overcome growing up in such a conservative place, but your society's beliefs about age of consent are not something you've been able to overcome. I get it. When children/ teens are involved, things become more emotional so it's harder to see past the BS. Now, remember that I like you as a poster and I'm not tying to just call you emotional and put you down for that. I just think you are wrong about this particular subject. No hard feelings. I'm not going to take anything you said personal.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2016, 04:37:05 PM
And by the sounds of things you are looking at 10 year olds! Well no fucking wonder you think it's ok for an adult to have a sexual relation ship with a minor.

Yeah that's why he keeps 'arguing' about it. He also likes to make himself out during the same conversation he has eventually with most members. He either -however unconsciously- feels 'better' by repeating it to more people as possible or he just thinks he'll get to somewhere by insisting on the same bullshit.

It's also a waste of time trying to talk to him about what is consent or why children cannot consent. He doesn't-can't get it, because if he does he'll have to classify himself as something disturbing; simply someone who fantasies raping children. It's a very messed up situation actually. He needs to believe in this. He also has a thick skin about this and that tells me he is mature in his age and have experience of talking about this with people.

Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: FaithIsFilth on July 08, 2016, 04:48:38 PM
And by the sounds of things you are looking at 10 year olds! Well no fucking wonder you think it's ok for an adult to have a sexual relation ship with a minor.
I don't think it's ok for an adult to have a sexual relationship with a minor. Where did you get that from? If the law says that the person is too young to have sex, then I don't think adults should break that law. If the law says they can have sex with that person, I see no issue there. Yeah, a lot of girls are going to regret some of their relationships later on in life and maybe think they were  used. You don't take away people's rights because some women have regrets about mistakes they've made in their lives. Just because people make mistakes, that doesn't mean you take away their freedom to make those mistakes. People make mistakes and they learn from them. That's how life goes. You don't restrict people's freedom because people are flawed and they make mistakes.

I'm attracted to girls aged 8 and up, but that shouldn't really matter here. I don't talk to the girls I'm attracted to, or stare at them and make them uncomfortable or anything like that. They wouldn't know that I was attracted to them.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: FaithIsFilth on July 08, 2016, 04:59:26 PM
Yeah that's why he keeps 'arguing' about it. He also likes to make himself out during the same conversation he has eventually with most members. He either -however unconsciously- feels 'better' by repeating it to more people as possible or he just thinks he'll get to somewhere by insisting on the same bullshit.

It's also a waste of time trying to talk to him about what is consent or why children cannot consent. He doesn't-can't get it, because if he does he'll have to classify himself as something disturbing; simply someone who fantasies raping children. It's a very messed up situation actually. He needs to believe in this. He also has a thick skin about this and that tells me he is mature in his age and have experience of talking about this with people.
Why should I try to hide who I am? Why should I be ashamed of who I am if I haven't done anything wrong? People are really not going to like it when the pedophile acceptance movement comes into full swing, and it's coming. Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh were right when they said the pedophile movement is coming next after the trans movement, and it will be glorious/ beautiful. People better get ready to be extremely disturbed, because it's coming and no one can stop it. Those standing with the pedophile will be the ones proven to be on the right side of history, and what a victory it will be. Children will then be safer, so the win for pedophiles will also be a win for children.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: doorknob on July 08, 2016, 05:09:07 PM
I don't think it's ok for an adult to have a sexual relationship with a minor. Where did you get that from? If the law says that the person is too young to have sex, then I don't think adults should break that law. If the law says they can have sex with that person, I see no issue there. Yeah, a lot of girls are going to regret some of their relationships later on in life and maybe think they were  used. You don't take away people's rights because some women have regrets about mistakes they've made in their lives. Just because people make mistakes, that doesn't mean you take away their freedom to make those mistakes. People make mistakes and they learn from them. That's how life goes. You don't restrict people's freedom because people are flawed and they make mistakes.

I'm attracted to girls aged 8 and up, but that shouldn't really matter here. I don't talk to the girls I'm attracted to, or stare at them and make them uncomfortable or anything like that. They wouldn't know that I was attracted to them.

This isn't about girls who've made mistakes. I'm talking about girls who were straight up molested, sexually harassed and even some who were raped. Don't you dare turn this around on them! This is an old man taking advantage of a young girl and it's not an isolated problem. This problem is epidemic where I live! You want to open the door for these sick bastards so they can more easily get away with what they are doing. That's what I hear.

As far as Canada even they have age restrictions it's not like they opened the flood gates for old men to have a right with a teenager as you portrayed it! You just want to justify it to make excuses for what is inexcusable.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2016, 05:11:46 PM
If the law says that the person is mature enough to make that choice for themselves (their body, their choice), then you don't have to be "on equal footing" or just as mature as the most mature adults in the world. That's silly. You're either mature enough to decide what you do with your body, or you're not, and where I am, 16 year olds are considered old enough to make that choice for themselves. In most of the Western world (the parts that aren't completely backwards thinking), the age of consent is far lower than 18.
The standard is determined to be 18 in backwards thinking places. There's a reason that the most liberal countries have the lower age of consent.
I thought about this plenty when I was a teenager, and my position now is the same it was then. I sided with the health organizations/ child welfare organizations then, and I still do. I don't think young people should be treated like little babies.
Well, I have argued for 14, but for the sake of not causing too much drama, for now I'm going to argue for 16... whether that is my true position or not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent_reform_in_Canada

The Child Welfare League of Canada, the Canadian AIDS Society, the Canadian Federation for Sexual Health (formerly International Planned Parenthood Federation), and the Canadian Children's Rights Council. They all argued against raising the age of consent from 14 to 16. I shit you not. I can only imagine what they would think about your extreme idea to have the age of consent be 18. I think you growing up in such a conservative country certainly has something to do with your views on age of consent. With most things, you are far left and have been able to overcome growing up in such a conservative place, but your society's beliefs about age of consent are not something you've been able to overcome. I get it. When children/ teens are involved, things become more emotional so it's harder to see past the BS. Now, remember that I like you as a poster and I'm not tying to just call you emotional and put you down for that. I just think you are wrong about this particular subject. No hard feelings. I'm not going to take anything you said personal.

From the link you posted:

In June 2006, the Canadian government proposed a bill to raise the age of consent from 14 to 16, while creating a close-in-age exemption for sex between 14-15 year olds and partners up to 5 years older, and keeping an existing close-in-age clause for sex between 12-13 year olds and partners up to 2 years older.[3] The initiative also maintains a temporary exception for already existing marriages of 14 and 15 year olds, but forbids new marriages like these in the future.[4]


This is not what you are defending. You are talking about teenagers having sex with twice, thrice their age. Personally you with little children. Actually you don't have an idea what you are talking about at all, because this issue is at a biological level for you. I don't expect you to get it.

But I'd appreciate if you, as a pedophile cut the crap of 'you are thinking like this because of the country you live in about age of consent' while you are actually defending 'it should be lowered so I can have sex with 10 year old girls' behind the 14 year old argument.

Didn't you the one who wrote a lot of things about feelings and emotions on this issue? Actually you wrote your specific feelings about a little girl dancing in a music video. Remember?  How she is the "definition of love for you". Expression was something like that. I have a good memory. I remember your posts and the way you described your emotions about it or things you said about the subject.

So when you want to have sex with a little girl, it is about your emotions, but me being protective over the young as an adult primate against another emotion is something to bring up as if it affects the argument?

This is called projection, FaithIsFilth, esp. considering my post wasn't emotional a bit. This is not something you can have an 'opinion' on, because you can't even see -highly likley refuse-  a lot of aspects the issue. Your problem is that you can't have sex with children.

And Canada is not doing anything remotely close the picture you are trying to draw. You are defined as criminal when you act on your fantasy in the country you live.

Again cut the crap.



Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: FaithIsFilth on July 08, 2016, 05:20:10 PM
This isn't about girls who've made mistakes. I'm talking about girls who were straight up molested, sexually harassed and even some who were raped. Don't you dare turn this around on them!
Those things you are talking about are all already illegal, so I don't exactly understand what your point is there. If those things happen, the person doing them should be reported.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: doorknob on July 08, 2016, 05:33:09 PM
Why should I try to hide who I am? Why should I be ashamed of who I am if I haven't done anything wrong? People are really not going to like it when the pedophile acceptance movement comes into full swing, and it's coming. Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh were right when they said the pedophile movement is coming next after the trans movement, and it will be glorious/ beautiful. People better get ready to be extremely disturbed, because it's coming and no one can stop it. Those standing with the pedophile will be the ones proven to be on the right side of history, and what a victory it will be. Children will then be safer, so the win for pedophiles will also be a win for children.

Dream on!

Not sure how you figure this is a win for children. Children do not want to be molested by creepy old men. Or even by any adult male/female. The pedophiles will never be allowed to do what they want to do with children. And there's nothing backward about that, that's just common sense.

Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2016, 05:36:57 PM
Why should I try to hide who I am? Why should I be ashamed of who I am if I haven't done anything wrong? People are really not going to like it when the pedophile acceptance movement comes into full swing, and it's coming. Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh were right when they said the pedophile movement is coming next after the trans movement, and it will be glorious/ beautiful. People better get ready to be extremely disturbed, because it's coming and no one can stop it. Those standing with the pedophile will be the ones proven to be on the right side of history, and what a victory it will be. Children will then be safer, so the win for pedophiles will also be a win for children.


You have an unbelievably distorted self image. You can only be free anonymously in the net. This is what you are doing here in this forum, writing it out to anyone possible, because you can only do it here or in a special group reserved for this. Any other place you'd be banned in a second. You are a criminal in the country you live, if you act on your desire. Don't delude yourself.

Pedophilia is not beneficial nor profitable to the human societies, therefore it will always be a problem. If one day, there will be a world accepting it, the whole family system and the basic understanding of the law would need to change and that's unlikley to happen because there is no benefit to seek out to change the system fundamentally. 

What you do not understand is this point -besides consent- because you seem to think 'having sex' is just something physical and emotional; between two people.

It's NOT. It's a social thing. It's an anthropological thing. It's a cultural thing. It's a sociological thing. It's not about children's right only, but also abut parents' rights. It's about maintaining standards. Fundamental fabric of law.

Children do not get to be adults and able to consent when you change the law. They will have parental figures all the time, because human child takes a very long time to get mature compared to other animals. Biologically and socially.

Anyway, I am bored.



Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: FaithIsFilth on July 08, 2016, 05:44:49 PM
Yes, that was me Shoe, and it's a beautiful thing, and if people could just get past the ick factor, they would see that it's better for me to be obsessed with an actress living far away from me in Hollywood, protected by bodyguards, than it is for me to try to bottle things up and possibly develop a crush on a little girl in the real world, in my own town. Would you prefer that? No. Of course not. I don't let myself fall for any young girls in the real world. I'm smarter than that. That little dancer you are talking about dominates my thoughts when it comes to girls, which in part stops me from thinking about the young girls around me in the real world. When I go to the store and see an attractive young girl on my way, I get back home, throw on one of her dance videos, and then I don't even remember what the girl I just saw on the street looks like, and she will be completely absent from my thoughts. Isn't that a good thing? I would think so. So yes, that little dancer brings emotions out of me that no one else can, but me watching her videos all the time and having such an obsession is actually a very sensible thing, as it is keeping real life girls around me out of my head. Isn't that what I should be striving for? To think about the young girls around me as little as possible? I've achieved that, so why is this not a win for everyone?
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: drunkenshoe on July 08, 2016, 06:06:19 PM
You should get real. You are delusional. I think what is interesting to me about you is the way you can manipulate yourself about all this; your self image, the world you built; the future you see. And how successful you are at it. The role of defense mechanism in it...etc. Anyway, I heard enough.

Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: Draconic Aiur on July 08, 2016, 06:49:01 PM
Faith you need to wake up.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: marom1963 on July 08, 2016, 11:31:15 PM
Seriously a teenager doesn't want a 30+ year old man. That is the old mans ego/fantasy. FYI it's wrong to force your self on some one and, that is the case with these types of men. Maybe in an extremely rare case will a teenager fall in love with a 30+ but that's extremely rare. We shouldn't be opening the door for these pervs to be molesting and ogling young teenage girls for something so ridiculous as a true love between teen and old man.

So yes you are supporting the predators. What's the matter did I burst your fantasy of getting it on with a 16 year old? Fantasy is one thing but reality is a totally different thing. The reality is teenagers do not fucking want you! You have no business flirting with a 16 year old that IS common sense. If you are that stupid then you deserve to go to jail and worse.
Where did you get this nonsense? Routinely, teenagers have crushes on teachers, actors, Rock stars, doctors, etc, all of whom are above 30.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: Shiranu on July 09, 2016, 02:52:20 AM
Quote
...and it will be glorious/ beautiful.

I have no words for how disgusting this is.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: doorknob on July 09, 2016, 01:11:10 PM
Where did you get this nonsense? Routinely, teenagers have crushes on teachers, actors, Rock stars, doctors, etc, all of whom are above 30.

I'm getting my information from experience and directly from a 16 year olds mouth.

Where are you getting your info from? And it's rare that any of those crushes are on men over 30 more like in there 20's.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: FaithIsFilth on July 09, 2016, 01:59:13 PM
I have no words for how disgusting this is.

I think you misunderstood, or you do not understand the implications of what I posted, or do not want to understand. Pedophile acceptance does not mean lowering the age of consent. It doesn't mean that you become like Iraq and it's culturally acceptable to fuck little boys. Nope. Nothing like that. All it means is that you will see less bigotry, more pedophiles that need help will be getting help, and children will be safer than they are now. I don't see what's even a little bit disgusting about making children safer, but then again I don't the problem of emotion coming in and overriding logic.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: Hydra009 on July 09, 2016, 02:26:23 PM
Pedophile acceptance does not mean lowering the age of consent. It doesn't mean that you become like Iraq and it's culturally acceptable to fuck little boys. Nope. Nothing like that.
Umm...isn't the desire to fuck little boys and girls pretty much the definition of pedophilia?
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: Shiranu on July 09, 2016, 03:18:48 PM
Quote
I think you misunderstood, or you do not understand the implications of what I posted, or do not want to understand.

Oh, I think I understood it quite well. There is very little way to misinterpret this...

Quote
People better get ready to be extremely disturbed, because it's coming and no one can stop it. Those standing with the pedophile will be the ones proven to be on the right side of history, and what a victory it will be.

You want to keep on hiding behind, "Oh the children will be safe! Oh, I just want pedophiles to be helped!", and yet you proclaim that people who want to fuck kids who haven't even hit puberty yet are on, "the right side of history"? Those two statements are completely and utterly incompatible; you cannot protect children AND accept that people who want to fuck them are "right".

If you only mean helping people with pedophile tendencies, then your movement is not even remotely comparable to the LGBT movement[/size],[/size] which fights for equal rights and the ability to love who they want to love (between two consenting adults). You cannot claim your movement is comparable to the Transsexual-right movement unless you also admit you are fighting for the same thing; the acceptance of your sexual attractions and gender roles.[/size]
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: FaithIsFilth on July 09, 2016, 04:36:15 PM
Oh, I think I understood it quite well. There is very little way to misinterpret this...

You want to keep on hiding behind, "Oh the children will be safe! Oh, I just want pedophiles to be helped!", and yet you proclaim that people who want to fuck kids who haven't even hit puberty yet are on, "the right side of history"? Those two statements are completely and utterly incompatible; you cannot protect children AND accept that people who want to fuck them are "right".

If you only mean helping people with pedophile tendencies, then your movement is not even remotely comparable to the LGBT movement[/size],[/size] which fights for equal rights and the ability to love who they want to love (between two consenting adults). You cannot claim your movement is comparable to the Transsexual-right movement unless you also admit you are fighting for the same thing; the acceptance of your sexual attractions and gender roles.[/size]
Your mind went to a dirty place when you saw "pedophile acceptance". That was you. Not me. Anyone who hurts someone who is under the age of consent should be thrown in jail. When I said people better get ready to be disturbed, I meant that they would be disturbed and outraged, but unjustifiably so. When I said standing with the pedophile, I certainly didn't think people would see that and think that I'm ok with people under the age of consent being harmed in a sexual manner. The pedophile acceptance movement and a movement to lower the age of consent are two separate things. Very, very different things. If you say "stand up for black lives", yeah, you'll have some racists say "what do you mean? Stand up for criminals and rapists and deadbeat dads?" If you say "stand up for Muslims who deal with a lot of hate crimes", you'll have PR respond with "What do you mean? Stand up for those who oppress women and want to kill the kufar, and chop off thieves hands, and cut off clits?" Of course I didn't mean stand up for abuse. Again, your mind went there. You should know better than to think I'm some sociopath who would stand with those who would like to do harm to children who have not yet reached puberty. If that were true, why do I bother to defend Muslims from all the hate they get, and speak out against the wars started by the West? Is it all an act I'm putting on?

All I've defended in this thread is liberalism. The idea that the most liberal countries in the West have an age of consent closer to 16 than 18, and you can draw your own conclusions about why that is, but things are clearly this way for a reason. Yeah, it's 18 in a lot of States, but you guys are so far behind that you don't even have universal health care yet, and you've got two Republicans running against each other in the General Election. If someone is living in a place where the age is 18 though, then that person better follow the law and stick with people 18 and up, or their dumb ass is going to jail. The law is the law, and people need to abide by that and not step outside of the law.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: aitm on July 09, 2016, 05:15:00 PM
Yes, that was me Shoe, and it's a beautiful thing, and if people could just get past the ick factor, they would see that it's better for me to be obsessed with an actress living far away from me in Hollywood, protected by bodyguards, than it is for me to try to bottle things up and possibly develop a crush on a little girl in the real world, in my own town. Would you prefer that? No. Of course not. I don't let myself fall for any young girls in the real world. I'm smarter than that. That little dancer you are talking about dominates my thoughts when it comes to girls, which in part stops me from thinking about the young girls around me in the real world. When I go to the store and see an attractive young girl on my way, I get back home, throw on one of her dance videos, and then I don't even remember what the girl I just saw on the street looks like, and she will be completely absent from my thoughts. Isn't that a good thing? I would think so. So yes, that little dancer brings emotions out of me that no one else can, but me watching her videos all the time and having such an obsession is actually a very sensible thing, as it is keeping real life girls around me out of my head. Isn't that what I should be striving for? To think about the young girls around me as little as possible? I've achieved that, so why is this not a win for everyone?

Actually I quite agree with this. It is the best case scenario, a person who gets turned on by a younger person but who does not act on it instead using the imagery. If only more were like that like.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: aitm on July 09, 2016, 05:24:08 PM
I'm getting my information from experience and directly from a 16 year olds mouth.

Where are you getting your info from? And it's rare that any of those crushes are on men over 30 more like in there 20's.
as a former 12,13,14,15,16,17 year old I can say that as a male I would willingly dive into the arms of many of my teachers who were over 30,,,,and as a male also, I have experienced many 12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28 year old girls/women willing to dive into the arms of a much older man and as a willing participant for many of them, (only one case that could be considered illegal, but hell, I met her in a bar with a drink in her hand, so…) and as a 45 yr old who had a wonderful 4 yr relationship with a 22 year old, I can say that yes……be careful of the blanket you throw, it does not cover everyone.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: PickelledEggs on July 09, 2016, 06:08:46 PM
No they're definitely brain-dead.


Fair and balanced (like Fox News).
Between the sudden burst of responsibilities (not as much as a full-fledged adult, but still a huge spike of them, in comparison to what they had), in addition to the raging hormones, yes. They are spacey and brain-dead. lol
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: FaithIsFilth on July 09, 2016, 09:40:52 PM
Umm...isn't the desire to fuck little boys and girls pretty much the definition of pedophilia?
Nope. Desiring something means you wish it to happen. F'ing little kids is the last thing I wish for. Really. It's hard for me to read stuff about young people being sexually abused, and it makes me feel ill. At a certain point I just stop reading.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: marom1963 on July 09, 2016, 09:59:10 PM
I'm getting my information from experience and directly from a 16 year olds mouth.

Where are you getting your info from? And it's rare that any of those crushes are on men over 30 more like in there 20's.
Let's clarify matters first. I'm 52, and I wasn't interested in teenagers when I was a teenager, so we're not talking about my twisted fantasies. Let's have that clear to start.
But, just because you and your 16 year-old pal have some sort of ick-thing going on w/the above 25 crowd doesn't mean that other teenagers do. Plenty of teenagers - especially girls but boys, too - are interested in older lovers, older being a fossil somewhere about 30.

It doesn't matter what you have to say to say about it - it is so; evidence of it is all over the joint, just open your eyes. A 30 year-old might have some money and a car and doesn't have to listen to mommy and daddy - real attractive to a teenager, real attractive. And 30 year-olds aren't wrinkled and bald and fat yet. They still look young and cute. So, that's icing on top of the cake.

You've got a wide World full of 30 year-old men w/18 year-old girl-friends. And a growing World filled w/40 year-old women w/22 year-old boyfriends - whether you like it.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: doorknob on July 10, 2016, 10:40:24 AM
Let's clarify matters first. I'm 52, and I wasn't interested in teenagers when I was a teenager, so we're not talking about my twisted fantasies. Let's have that clear to start.
But, just because you and your 16 year-old pal have some sort of ick-thing going on w/the above 25 crowd doesn't mean that other teenagers do. Plenty of teenagers - especially girls but boys, too - are interested in older lovers, older being a fossil somewhere about 30.

It doesn't matter what you have to say to say about it - it is so; evidence of it is all over the joint, just open your eyes. A 30 year-old might have some money and a car and doesn't have to listen to mommy and daddy - real attractive to a teenager, real attractive. And 30 year-olds aren't wrinkled and bald and fat yet. They still look young and cute. So, that's icing on top of the cake.

You've got a wide World full of 30 year-old men w/18 year-old girl-friends. And a growing World filled w/40 year-old women w/22 year-old boyfriends - whether you like it.

UM I'm 36 so I don't know what you are talking about. And no 30 year old men aren't wrinkled and bald yet but still not good looking (with the exception of movie stars maybe). You nailed it on the head when you said car and money. But I don't think a teenager being attracted to those things is quite the same as a teen truly having an invested relationship with a 30+ year old. Other than you breath air and have eyes what do you think you even have in common with a 16 year old girl? Are you just now getting your drivers license? Are you still living with mom and dad? whoops maybe you are.

young and cute my ass! Sorry to break this too you but even I don't think 30 year olds are attractive except in very rare cases and I'm 36. The difference is I'm realistic and I'm not invested only in looks. Wake up and smell the roses. 16 year olds don't want you! Stop trying to prove you still have something you probably never had from the start.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: marom1963 on July 10, 2016, 06:49:38 PM
UM I'm 36 so I don't know what you are talking about. And no 30 year old men aren't wrinkled and bald yet but still not good looking (with the exception of movie stars maybe). You nailed it on the head when you said car and money. But I don't think a teenager being attracted to those things is quite the same as a teen truly having an invested relationship with a 30+ year old. Other than you breath air and have eyes what do you think you even have in common with a 16 year old girl? Are you just now getting your drivers license? Are you still living with mom and dad? whoops maybe you are.

young and cute my ass! Sorry to break this too you but even I don't think 30 year olds are attractive except in very rare cases and I'm 36. The difference is I'm realistic and I'm not invested only in looks. Wake up and smell the roses. 16 year olds don't want you! Stop trying to prove you still have something you probably never had from the start.
Whoa! I began by stating clearly that I myself am not interested in teenaged lovers. I didn't find teenagers attractive when I was a teenager, never mind now. My father was 26; my mother was 16; they were married for 50 years, separated only by death. They adored each other. My mother's brother - whom I saw only yesterday - has been married for 55 years. He's 80, and my aunt is 72. 80 and 72 is not much of an age difference now, but 25 and 17 was a big age difference then. Clearly, there was much more between these couples than looks or possessions. You're making assertions that are not statistically born out in the wider society; statistically, most couples have an age difference, with the male being about 5 years older than the female. Why? It comes down to the fact that females mature at an earlier age than males. There is parity between a 25 year-old female and a 30 year-old male.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: doorknob on July 10, 2016, 11:22:37 PM
That's nice.

I'm saying a 16 year old doesn't want a 30 year old. Now that's not to say when that same 16 year old turns 20 they may go for up to ten years apart. Maybe even more than that as age increases. As you get older you get less picky in some areas and more picky in others. And there is nothing wrong with a 20 year old going with a 30 year old. That's different because a 20 year old probably has enough experience to handle a 30 year old. A 16 year old does not. All other ages that are past 20 are fair game once it passes that point you're old enough to make that decision. But a 16 year old is still a child.

They do not have the level of maturity and self confidence that comes only with age.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: marom1963 on July 11, 2016, 12:27:04 AM
That's nice.

I'm saying a 16 year old doesn't want a 30 year old. Now that's not to say when that same 16 year old turns 20 they may go for up to ten years apart. Maybe even more than that as age increases. As you get older you get less picky in some areas and more picky in others. And there is nothing wrong with a 20 year old going with a 30 year old. That's different because a 20 year old probably has enough experience to handle a 30 year old. A 16 year old does not. All other ages that are past 20 are fair game once it passes that point you're old enough to make that decision. But a 16 year old is still a child.

They do not have the level of maturity and self confidence that comes only with age.
Generally, I've not been talking about 16 year-olds because 16 year-olds are jail bait. You seem to think - as the law does - that numbers are magical in determining a person's level of maturity. They are not. At best, they are guides to averages. There are 16 year-olds who are more mature than 26 year-olds due to variations in life experience: one had to grow up quickly to care for younger siblings, for instance, while the other was pampered all the way into grad school. Only a fool undertakes a relationship w/anyone under the legal age of consent - but that is for purely practical considerations, not because an 18 year-old is magically guaranteed to be more mature than a 16 year-old.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: alexxmedeiros on October 14, 2016, 12:05:33 AM
This is one of those questions that tends to rear its ugly head around here every so often, so I figure a dedicated discussion is in order. I'll kick this off by trying to lay out some basic issues that merit discussion.

  • If pedophilia is a choice, why do people choose to do it?
  • Should pedophilia be considered a mental illness?
  • Is pedophilia a sexual orientation? If not, why should it be distinguished from sexual orientation?
  • What sort of carrot/stick approach would be best to prevent pedophiles from crossing into criminal territory? (Especially since current punishments don't seem to discourage a fair number of them.)

If I think of anymore relevant questions, I'll update this post.

Pedophilia is a choice and people choose to commit acts of pedophilia because they love their sin. They hate God but want his gift of pleasure, so they look elsewhere for this gift of pleasure and steal it from God by twisting it.

Pedophilia can only be considered a mental illness if alcoholism, drug addiction, homosexuality, adultery, etc... can also be considered mental illnesses.

What the heck even is a "sexual orientation"? There is only one way that God has given us the gift of sex and it is enjoyed only in marriage, outside of marriage sex is still physically enjoyable but it is an expression of your hatred and rebellion against God.

Not sure I understand your last question but the real isssue here is, assuming that you're an atheist by other posts of yours that I've read, why is it wrong for pedophile to molest a child?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: Hydra009 on October 14, 2016, 01:02:57 AM
I told myself I wouldn't touch this thread with a 10ft pole, yet here I am.  :/

Pedophilia is a choice and people choose to commit acts of pedophilia because they love their sin. They hate God but want his gift of pleasure, so they look elsewhere for this gift of pleasure and steal it from God by twisting it.
Lots of assumptions there, and nearly all are wrong.  I think we can safely dispense with the God talk without further comment (I would call that a point that's been refuted a thousand times, but that would be understating it), and it would be wise to look in exactly what motivates a pedophile and how much of this is deliberate and how much is compulsion without simply assuming the answers.

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Pedophilia can only be considered a mental illness if alcoholism, drug addiction, homosexuality, adultery, etc... can also be considered mental illnesses.
Well, homosexuality definitely isn't.  It was dropped from the DSM decades ago.  Adultery is a social taboo, not a mental illness.  And alcoholism and drug addiction are compulsive, habitual drug use to the point of psychological/physical dependence.

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What the heck even is a "sexual orientation"?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Sexual+orientation

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There is only one way that God has given us the gift of sex and it is enjoyed only in marriage, outside of marriage sex is still physically enjoyable but it is an expression of your hatred and rebellion against God.
The institution of marriage is historically a pretty recent development as are the social taboo against sex outside of marriage.  Obviously, people were boning before the Bible existed.  Also, the "gift of sex" is most definitely enjoyed a variety of ways, not "only one way".

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Not sure I understand your last question but the real isssue here is, assuming that you're an atheist by other posts of yours that I've read
A regular poster at atheist forums being an atheist would seem to be a relatively safe assumption.

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why is it wrong for pedophile to molest a child?
Because it's rape and rape is wrong in virtually any moral framework, including *gasp* secular morality.  You know, stuff like the golden rule and the harm principle.  But unlike our religious peers, atheists need not worry about the cosmic consequences of eating shellfish, masturbation, and desecration of holy crackers - potentially all at the same time.  All of the good and none of the garbage - a very attractive offer.  The only real downside is dealing with scowling from the devout.  But these days, they scowl at everybody.  One wonders if love of scowling is the main draw of religion and all this God stuff is just window dressing.
Title: Re: Is Pedophilia a Choice?
Post by: Cavebear on October 15, 2016, 10:18:50 AM
There are 2 aspects here; legality and morality.  Pedophilia is a legal term.  By definition, that is not up to personal opinion.

Morally, it depends on societal decisions.  Suppose "pedophilia" was defined as at age 18 or younger.  Or 21.  Or 30?  Obviously, there is some logical difference between law and logic there.  The law can be anything, logic suggests otherwise.  Pedophilia is a legal decision, based on social mores. 

IIRC, the original Juliet was about 14 and Romeo about a year older.  Do we view Romeo as a pedophile?  It would not be acceptable today (and I would agree). But it wasn't then for biological reasons.