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Humanities Section => Philosophy & Rhetoric General Discussion => Topic started by: gentle_dissident on February 21, 2016, 05:44:49 PM

Title: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: gentle_dissident on February 21, 2016, 05:44:49 PM
I was working at the general store, when an old lady in fur leaning on her cart asked me, "Isn't it horrible you have to work for a living?"

"Yes," I replied

She then asked, "What else would you be doing?"

Without stopping my stocking, I replied, "Making art and music. Designing papercraft and board games. Performing magic and juggling."

She sped up her cart walker to get away from me.

I didn't get a chance to tell her that I could be living on a green and efficient collective, farming and partying with my neighbors. I could be collaborating on building, repair, and innovation. I could be free of the strange selfish commercial world she promotes.

But no, I'm stuck in this fake world, despite the rebellion of youth. Generations may look different, but they all embrace the rat race.
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: Johan on February 21, 2016, 06:02:10 PM
Probably the juggling comment that scared her off. Jugglers have the effect on people.
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: aitm on February 21, 2016, 06:06:34 PM
Nah, it was the designing paperwork thing…..them fuckers be crazy.
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: drunkenshoe on February 21, 2016, 06:16:13 PM
'Performing magic' of course.
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: aitm on February 21, 2016, 06:18:20 PM
Quote from: drunkenshoe on February 21, 2016, 06:16:13 PM
'Performing magic' of course.

ala Howard Wolowitz
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: gentle_dissident on February 21, 2016, 06:38:29 PM
Quote from: aitm on February 21, 2016, 06:18:20 PM
ala Howard Wolowitz
I didn't recognize the name, Howard Wolowitz, so I looked it up. That show never entertained me, and the smart people don't seem like ones I knew in college. Anyway, I watched a video compilation of the card trick gag. That's called "using a stooge". It's always uncomfortable to see a magician use a stooge.
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: stromboli on February 21, 2016, 06:56:13 PM
Board games. Creepy.

(http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/KABALA.jpg)
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: gentle_dissident on February 21, 2016, 07:11:15 PM
Quote from: stromboli on February 21, 2016, 06:56:13 PM
Board games. Creepy.

(http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/KABALA.jpg)
Ka-Bala doesn't have a page at Board Game Geek because it's not a game. A guy tried to give me a fortune teller when I mentioned I like board games. Wut?

I wouldn't mind owning this.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/5844/mystic-skull-game-voodoo

Anyway, the thread is about being a utopianist in a world of power, greed, and deception. I figured most atheists had this problem.
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: Hydra009 on February 21, 2016, 07:45:44 PM
Quote from: gentle_dissident on February 21, 2016, 05:44:49 PM
I was working at the general store, when an old lady in fur leaning on her cart asked me, "Isn't it horrible you have to work for a living?"

"Yes," I replied

She then asked, "What else would you be doing?"

Without stopping my stocking, I replied, "Making art and music. Designing papercraft and board games. Performing magic and juggling."
(http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/picard_clapping.gif)

I've often wondered what people would be doing if they didn't have to labor for wages.  For the most part, people tend to want to do more fulfilling, imaginative work.
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: aitm on February 21, 2016, 08:07:23 PM
You know its possible she was looking for a fuck….maybe……possibly you just lost your one and only chance at a sugar momma…you dumb fuck.
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: gentle_dissident on February 21, 2016, 08:11:07 PM
Quote from: aitm on February 21, 2016, 08:07:23 PM
You know its possible she was looking for a fuck….maybe……possibly you just lost your one and only chance at a sugar momma…you dumb fuck.
I'm pretty sure she's not the only one. It's weird finding out that some of the "older ladies" are close to my age. I tend to get along better with the younger ladies. They're surprised to find out how old I am.
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: mauricio on February 21, 2016, 08:35:21 PM
Quote from: gentle_dissident on February 21, 2016, 05:44:49 PM
I was working at the general store, when an old lady in fur leaning on her cart asked me, "Isn't it horrible you have to work for a living?"

"Yes," I replied

She then asked, "What else would you be doing?"

Without stopping my stocking, I replied, "Making art and music. Designing papercraft and board games. Performing magic and juggling."

She sped up her cart walker to get away from me.

I didn't get a chance to tell her that I could be living on a green and efficient collective, farming and partying with my neighbors. I could be collaborating on building, repair, and innovation. I could be free of the strange selfish commercial world she promotes.

But no, I'm stuck in this fake world, despite the rebellion of youth. Generations may look different, but they all embrace the rat race.

Im interested on your concept of a fake world? What is this fake world, and what is the real world? What is the crucial difference between them?
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: Baruch on February 21, 2016, 09:13:00 PM
Will be interested in Gentle-Dissident's answer ...

Human personality and culture are imaginary ... they come from the imagination ... which means for some people, that is synonymous with fake.

Unfortunately, it is a circular logic problem to try to have enough imagination, to escape other's imagination, let alone your own imagination.  Buddhists call it Nirvana.

In my case, without the rat race (and there is no cheese at the end of the race) ... I would have more time to take care of the people I love, instead of the people and institutions that I presently spend too much time on.  It is called retirement by the elderly ;-)
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: gentle_dissident on February 21, 2016, 09:22:14 PM
Quote from: mauricio on February 21, 2016, 08:35:21 PM
Im interested on your concept of a fake world? What is this fake world, and what is the real world? What is the crucial difference between them?
The main difference is competition VS cooperation. Competition encourages people to take advantage of each other. It's easier to keep the peasants from revolting when they're fighting each other.

In the real world, advances would be made to better humanity and not bestow power to a few. We would work together to determine our basic needs and the most efficient ways to fulfill them. We would build these solutions together. Technology would be developed to take over as many human tasks as possible, so humans can have more time to innovate and play. In the fake world, these advances are used to cut labor while keeping pay the same.

The fake world is full of meaningless jobs, with bizarre rules. The real world jobs would focus on sustaining and bettering humanity. People in the workforce could easily move from position to position to find where they are best suited and most comfortable. This would all be handled through central planning at various levels. It's amazing that humanity has made it this far without it.

The real world would utilize free renewable green energy and not fossil and nuclear. The real world would benefit from love and understanding instead of hate and jealousy. Our species is capable of making these changes. I feel something is nefariously holding us back.
http://postimg.org/image/no9qtaxj3/
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: mauricio on February 21, 2016, 09:41:59 PM
Quote from: gentle_dissident on February 21, 2016, 09:22:14 PM
The main difference is competition VS cooperation. Competition encourages people to take advantage of each other. It's easier to keep the peasants from revolting when they're fighting each other.

In the real world, advances would be made to better humanity and not bestow power to a few. We would work together to determine our basic needs and the most efficient ways to fulfill them. We would build these solutions together. Technology would be developed to take over as many human tasks as possible, so humans can have more time to innovate and play. In the fake world, these advances are used to cut labor while keeping pay the same.

The fake world is full of meaningless jobs, with bizarre rules. The real world jobs would focus on sustaining and bettering humanity. People in the workforce could easily move from position to position to find where they are best suited and most comfortable. This would all be handled through central planning at various levels. It's amazing that humanity has made it this far without it.

The real world would utilize free renewable green energy and not fossil and nuclear. The real world would benefit from love and understanding instead of hate and jealousy. Our species is capable of making these changes. I feel something is nefariously holding us back.
http://postimg.org/image/no9qtaxj3/

I used to think like that but i have become more cynical now but still idealist at heart.. How do we know that human nature makes this utopia possible? So many desires and so many material conditions. How can this central planning made of humans efficiently calculate all of this and stoically exert it's power without bias. Preservation of ourselves and our closest of kin seem like our main drives to me. I think many times our dreams of utopias and progress are bigger than our nature. We harm ourselves by creating systems to organize our lives which represent our ideals but does not taking into account our natural flaws. I see a dissonance between what we wish we were and what we are present in progressive and utopic ideologies. The conservatives argue for us to go back to our traditional ways to fix this dissonance. I think we should go beyond changing our systems like institutions and culture. We should change ourselves. Using genetic engineering and cybernetics to become the ideal beings we wish we were and create gods: strong general artificial intelligences. Ultimately this could go pretty wrong but i would think it is a great achievement if we manage to be the stepping stone from biological life to a new type of process and structure of matter in the univers. Biological life may be but a blink in the process of the cosmos.
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: gentle_dissident on February 21, 2016, 09:49:06 PM
If that's the way you want to imagine it, I wish you the best of luck. Say hi to your god for me.
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: mauricio on February 21, 2016, 09:54:05 PM
Quote from: gentle_dissident on February 21, 2016, 09:49:06 PM
If that's the way you want to imagine it, I wish you the best of luck. Say hi to your god for me.

Well it is not so much that i want it but it seems like the only way. Each day i grow increasingly conviced that the human being is tragically flawed with a mind that dreams higher than what we could ever reach. But we could fix ourselves. But does a broken thing can know how to fix itself?
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: gentle_dissident on February 21, 2016, 09:57:06 PM
Quote from: mauricio on February 21, 2016, 09:54:05 PM
But does a broken thing can know how to fix itself?
There are powerful people who benefit from this broken thing. I'm pretty sure it's intentionally broken.
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: mauricio on February 21, 2016, 09:59:52 PM
Quote from: gentle_dissident on February 21, 2016, 09:57:06 PM
There are powerful people who benefit from this broken thing. I'm pretty sure it's intentionally broken.

Many cracks are probably self inflicted but many of the bigger ones have been with us and emerged from our genesis: the millions of years we evolved. I think powerful people preyed on those rather than created them.
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: gentle_dissident on February 21, 2016, 10:04:46 PM
Quote from: mauricio on February 21, 2016, 09:59:52 PM
Many cracks are probably self inflicted but many of the bigger ones have been with us and emerged from our genesis: the millions of years we evolved. I think powerful people preyed on those rather than created them.
Well, I will agree that in this age of the internet, we only have ourselves to blame for letting the powerful exploit our weaknesses. I feel like we could be strong if we stood together. I'm pretty damn strong, and all I have, at this point, is myself.
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: stromboli on February 21, 2016, 10:16:59 PM
I'm thinking a word like counterfeit or fraudulent versus fake might be a more appropriate word. I have never had any thought of seeking after a Utopian world because I've had to deal with reality my whole life in a more or less combative way; me versus the world, so to speak. Happens when you grow up poor.

Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: gentle_dissident on February 21, 2016, 10:22:37 PM
Quote from: stromboli on February 21, 2016, 10:16:59 PM
I'm thinking a word like counterfeit or fraudulent versus fake might be a more appropriate word.
All fitting words.
Quote from: stromboli on February 21, 2016, 10:16:59 PM
I have never had any thought of seeking after a Utopian world because I've had to deal with reality my whole life in a more or less combative way; me versus the world, so to speak. Happens when you grow up poor.
I kinda got that vibe from you. I wish you peace.
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: Johan on February 21, 2016, 10:36:29 PM
Quote from: gentle_dissident on February 21, 2016, 10:04:46 PM
Well, I will agree that in this age of the internet, we only have ourselves to blame for letting the powerful exploit our weaknesses. I feel like we could be strong if we stood together. I'm pretty damn strong, and all I have, at this point, is myself.
I'm curious as to whom exactly you believe this powerful person is that is exploiting you.
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: gentle_dissident on February 21, 2016, 10:41:16 PM
Quote from: Johan on February 21, 2016, 10:36:29 PM
I'm curious as to whom exactly you believe this powerful person is that is exploiting you.
Joel  Osteen
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: Johan on February 22, 2016, 12:51:49 AM
So.... don't care to give a real answer then? I thought as much.
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: gentle_dissident on February 22, 2016, 12:58:33 AM
Quote from: Johan on February 22, 2016, 12:51:49 AM
So.... don't care to give a real answer then? I thought as much.
LOL, I thought you were joking about there being one person. Big biz and govt work hand in hand to manipulate and suppress us. They teach others that the secret to freedom is to own slaves. They put fantasies in our heads with mascots, spokespeople, and totally fake speeches. I've worked to pull myself out of that world they created for me and am stronger for it.
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: Baruch on February 22, 2016, 03:22:12 AM
"the secret to freedom is to own slaves" ... that is how the Athenians did it.  Today we exploit labor saving devices and Third World peoples.  Archimedes invented some of the first labor saving devices ... so that too is ancient, but was under-developed for a long time.
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: Solomon Zorn on February 22, 2016, 09:36:34 AM
https://www.youtube.com/embed/XLgYAHHkPFs
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on February 22, 2016, 10:44:49 AM
You should have told her that your lifes goal is to suck on the big government tit and squander all of her tax dollars on drugs and hookers..
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: aitm on February 22, 2016, 12:42:38 PM
"What else could I be doing?"  Redefining the whole concept of hedonism....if I had the money....does having money get to play in our guessing game? Cause that would change a lot of answers i imagine.
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: SGOS on February 22, 2016, 01:01:00 PM
Quote from: gentle_dissident on February 21, 2016, 05:44:49 PM
I was working at the general store, when an old lady in fur leaning on her cart asked me,

"Yes," I replied

She then asked, "What else would you be doing?"

Without stopping my stocking, I replied, "Making art and music. Designing papercraft and board games. Performing magic and juggling."

She sped up her cart walker to get away from me.

That was a strange encounter.  Why did she even bring that up ("Isn't it horrible you have to work for a living?")  Then she get's pissed when you actually agreed with her, and gave her some preferred alternatives.  Sounds like her motive was to set a trap.

Yeah, we all know work is required to survive.  You never said it wasn't.

Very weird conversation.  But there's probably weirder ones too.
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: aitm on February 22, 2016, 01:27:48 PM
Quote from: SGOS on February 22, 2016, 01:01:00 PM
That was a strange encounter. 

Yeah, I think she wanted to take him home with her. Maybe he has the "bad-boy" look.....heheheheh
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: SGOS on February 22, 2016, 01:38:26 PM
Quote from: aitm on February 22, 2016, 01:27:48 PM
Yeah, I think she wanted to take him home with her. Maybe he has the "bad-boy" look.....heheheheh

Not the best pick up lines (I can accommodate bad pickup lines), but the whole encounter kind of fizzles if that was her intent.
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: SGOS on February 22, 2016, 03:29:27 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on February 21, 2016, 07:45:44 PM
I've often wondered what people would be doing if they didn't have to labor for wages.  For the most part, people tend to want to do more fulfilling, imaginative work.

Ain't that the truth.  My job was nothing but a distraction when I was writing a program or building a house.  I'd be right in the middle of something when I would have to stop and go to work.
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: SGOS on February 22, 2016, 03:29:55 PM
She was trying to draw a foul?
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: drunkenshoe on February 22, 2016, 03:30:53 PM
Quote from: aitm on February 22, 2016, 01:27:48 PM
Yeah, I think she wanted to take him home with her. Maybe he has the "bad-boy" look.....heheheheh

I saw that. :lol:

He has a bad boy look, I have seen a pic in the pic thread. Apparently he is also good at resisting. :P
Title: Re: "What else would you be doing?"
Post by: Unbeliever on February 23, 2016, 06:29:50 PM
Quote from: Johan on February 21, 2016, 06:02:10 PM
Probably the juggling comment that scared her off. Jugglers have the effect on people.

Or maybe she was hard of hearing and thought he her jugs were being referenced.