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Humanities Section => History General Discussion => Topic started by: Solitary on October 11, 2015, 01:32:29 PM

Title: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Solitary on October 11, 2015, 01:32:29 PM
https://youtu.be/nQrpLp-X0ws
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Baruch on October 11, 2015, 09:58:33 PM
There are so many special ops, black ops, psy ops ... a random conspiracy theory is probably true.  Not necessarily a foreign conspiracy, it could be an inside conspiracy ... the movers and shakers aren't on the same square.

Personally I believe that 9/11 was an inside job, but George W wasn't smart enough to lead it ... but then he was just a schlub front man ... just like everyone from LBJ onward.  It is well known that the Enron docs were in WTC 7.  I think that tells you all you need to know.  Also the Pentagon audit papers were in the Navy wing of the Pentagon that was hit by the plane/missile it was hit by.  Two trillion dollars are missing over the past 50 years at the Pentagon, and nobody has suggested a new audit ... surely a partial re-audit is possible.  The inquiry board into 9/11 admitted that they were only allowed to do a coverup, not a real investigation.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Solomon Zorn on October 13, 2015, 06:01:08 AM
Gimme a break...
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: TomFoolery on October 13, 2015, 07:39:22 AM
Who do I believe? You, Solitary. Not the science, not the majority of engineers and architects, not the video footage, not the vast number of eye witness accounts, not the 9/11 commission.

Hell, why not a conspiracy theory conspiracy? Since it was an inside job with the pretext of going to war and making robber baron businesses rich, what if that's just what the conspiracy theorists want us to think because it was really aliens who have infiltrated the government and the 9/11 truthers are being paid by the government to cover it up?

For fuck's sake...
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: josephpalazzo on October 13, 2015, 08:41:30 AM
Unfortunately, 9/11 is perfect ground for CT'ers.

Solitary, I don't understand why you think the words of a single person should take that much importance when thousands of professionals and experts have made their studies well known. 
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: drunkenshoe on October 13, 2015, 09:24:20 AM
An American tried to convince me that it was an inside job to crush the rights of Americans -to start a new era with producing new regulations or acts to manipulate to do whatever they want- for like 45 mins. Someone I met a bar in the US. He thought the old America had many obstacles for this new 'regime'.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Sal1981 on October 13, 2015, 10:44:32 AM
I believe evidence, not the lack of it - something CTs enjoy lavishing in.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Baruch on October 13, 2015, 05:51:21 PM
I believe evidence, not the lack of it - something CTs enjoy lavishing in.

I think there are conspiracies, but because they are conspiracies, ordinary folks will never know what they are.  Even if they guess correctly, they will not know if they are right or not.  So yes, lack of evidence will always be fertile ground, otherwise there is no interest in the story.  I have evidence that my car repair place mis-wired by electric car window .. but nobody but me would be interested.  But if there are flying saucers on the bottom of the ocean in the Bermuda Triangle (and I thought The Abyss was awesome, more so than Battleship) ... that is interesting to lots of people.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: josephpalazzo on October 13, 2015, 06:01:48 PM
  I have evidence that my car repair place mis-wired by electric car window .. but nobody but me would be interested. 

You don't have evidence unless you know the same thing happened to many other cars or you have a taped conversation when your car was being repaired clearly indicating a conspiracy of the people involved in the repair. Yes, evidence is a must. Your suspicions is not evidence. 
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Baruch on October 13, 2015, 06:07:34 PM
That is a projection.  I didn't claim anyone deliberately mis-wired it.  I believe it was an accident.  It is a fact that it is mis-wired, that is not in dispute.  But like some Mafia hit, a mis-wire conspiracy is much more interesting.  Particularly if it were Spectre fiddling with James Bond's new car ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4AlnCav2XM

Made you look ;-)
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: josephpalazzo on October 13, 2015, 06:22:48 PM
That is a projection.  I didn't claim anyone deliberately mis-wired it.  I believe it was an accident.  It is a fact that it is mis-wired, that is not in dispute.  But like some Mafia hit, a mis-wire conspiracy is much more interesting.  Particularly if it were Spectre fiddling with James Bond's new car ;-)



You might see it as entertainment, but there is a lot of people who get hurt by these false allegations. And I thought you deplore any situation that victimized people...
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Unbeliever on October 13, 2015, 07:13:47 PM
It's not so much a matter of who I believe, but who I find credible. The more extreme of the "conspiracy theorists" are likely put out there to discredit the whole idea of the conspiracy. We won't know what really happened for several decades, by which time it will no longer matter to me anyway.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Baruch on October 13, 2015, 07:47:03 PM
Josephpalazzo ... life is entertainment, particularly behind the wheels of one of those cars!  But I knew a guy once, who got to ride shotgun in a Ferrari while is son-in-law drove it ... afterward he put all his savings into Depends ;-)

So you are really concerned about the hurt feelings of public figures like Bill Clinton, George W etc?  And if so, who the $&$^# do you actually work for?  Mrs Clinton perhaps?
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: josephpalazzo on October 13, 2015, 08:30:51 PM
Josephpalazzo ... life is entertainment, particularly behind the wheels of one of those cars!  But I knew a guy once, who got to ride shotgun in a Ferrari while is son-in-law drove it ... afterward he put all his savings into Depends ;-)

So you are really concerned about the hurt feelings of public figures like Bill Clinton, George W etc?  And if so, who the $&$^# do you actually work for?  Mrs Clinton perhaps?

Hmmm, no I was thinking of public figures but ordinary people who lost loved ones at the WTC.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Baruch on October 13, 2015, 11:40:31 PM
The best way to honor victims of 9/11 would be to arrest George W, Dick Cheney et al for collaborating with Saudi Arabia.  Or where those Eskimos who hijacked those planes ... bad Eskimos!  But since treason is the new normal, I doubt that any of their families are happy ... except I seem to remember that the Satan in Chief paid them off with insurance after the fact?  Where was that found in the Constitution?  Did the victims of Pearl Harbor get that treatment?
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: josephpalazzo on October 14, 2015, 05:57:08 AM
The best way to honor victims of 9/11 would be to arrest George W, Dick Cheney et al for collaborating with Saudi Arabia. 

George W, Dick Cheney et al have done some bad things, but 9/11 is NOT on that list. Committing another travesty as you are advocating is the last thing that would honor those victims.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Baruch on October 14, 2015, 06:48:23 AM
Yes, the Administration at that time wasn't flying the planes into the Towers ... otherwise we could have skipped the rest of that Administration.  But the whole thing of helping Saudis escape from the US after Saudis did bad things ... says the Administration was driving the get away car.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: josephpalazzo on October 14, 2015, 07:00:26 AM
Yes, the Administration at that time wasn't flying the planes into the Towers ... otherwise we could have skipped the rest of that Administration.  But the whole think of helping Saudis escape from the US after Saudis did bad things ... says the Administration was driving the get away car.

You're saying that if one Saudi commits a crime, all Saudis are guilty. Weird that you who continuously fear of being a victim of injustices have a twisted desire to punish the innocent.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Baruch on October 14, 2015, 07:17:10 AM
Saudis innocent?  Bwahaha ... don't make me laugh while eating eye ball of sheep as aphrodisiac to keep up with four wives!  May a camel spider drive you from your tent, infidel!  We Semites make US presidents dance for us and kiss our robed asses, while being payed many dinars for black pollution under pristine sand.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: josephpalazzo on October 14, 2015, 07:48:27 AM
Saudis innocent?  Bwahaha ... don't make me laugh while eating eye ball of sheep as aphrodisiac to keep up with four wives!  May a camel spider drive you from your tent, infidel!  We Semites make US presidents dance for us and kiss our robed asses, while paying many dinars for black pollution under pristine sand.

Thanks for the info, asshole bigot.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Baruch on October 14, 2015, 11:35:19 PM
So now you are protecting the royalists in Arabia too?  How many wives did they promise you? ;-))  The average Saudi isn't the millionaire I was talking about ... or their domestic slaves from S Asia and Indonesia.  Yes, I am bigoted against royal shits of all kinds ... it is medieval wherever found.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: josephpalazzo on October 15, 2015, 08:57:09 AM
So now you are protecting the royalists in Arabia too?  How many wives did they promise you? ;-))  The average Saudi isn't the millionaire I was talking about ... or their domestic slaves from S Asia and Indonesia.  Yes, I am bigoted against royal shits of all kinds ... it is medieval wherever found.

No asshole, you keep making the same mistakes over and over. I'm not speaking of the Royal Saudis, but the average Saudi, which you were mocking, who has to live through a terrible repressive regime .
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Solitary on October 15, 2015, 11:20:12 AM
Unfortunately, 9/11 is perfect ground for CT'ers.

Solitary, I don't understand why you think the words of a single person should take that much importance when thousands of professionals and experts have made their studies well known. 
You do realize that is appealing to the crowd. I never said I agreed, it was asking a question. I remember when our government killed people in New York with biological weapons, and how they have used service men as guinea pigs with psychotropic drugs during Vietnam. Also the video is of a man that was there when it happen, and an expert that saw melted steel as have others that were actually there.. A fire from airplane fuel cannot melt steel. The day it happened everyone thought, because of how the news presented it, they saw the first plane hit the towers. This would have been impossible, they used different views of the second plane. How do you explain a metal building that wasn't hit by a plane burning to the ground. The Bush administration wasn't past doing anything while they got us into a war  based on a lie that is still going on. I will listen to experts that were there, not so-called experts paid by the government to give their opinion.  I have worked with bar joists that were used on the Twin Towers, and realize they will bend and collapse when heated hot enough like experts have said, but the elevator shafts were made of steal posts that do not melt or collapse from a fuel fire, even if the outside walls come down. Did the Empire State building collapse from a fire when a bomber hit it?  Did the steel melt from the fire?
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: josephpalazzo on October 15, 2015, 11:36:45 AM
You do realize that is appealing to the crowd. I never said I agreed, it was asking a question. I remember when our government killed people in New York with biological weapons, and how they have used service men as guinea pigs with psychotropic drugs during Vietnam. Also the video is of a man that was there when it happen, and an expert that saw melted steel as have others that were actually there.. A fire from airplane fuel cannot melt steel. The day it happened everyone thought, because of how the news presented it, they saw the first plane hit the towers. This would have been impossible, they used different views of the second plane. How do you explain a metal building that wasn't hit by a plane burning to the ground. The Bush administration wasn't past doing anything while they got us into a war  based on a lie that is still going on. I will listen to experts that were there, not so-called experts paid by the government to give their opinion.  I have worked with bar joists that were used on the Twin Towers, and realize they will bend and collapse when heated hot enough like experts have said, but the elevator shafts were made of steal posts that do not melt or collapse from a fuel fire, even if the outside walls come down. Did the Empire State building collapse from a fire when a bomber hit it?  Did the steel melt from the fire?

Extreme heat can cause structural collapse in steel. It is well-documented and has been observed in many other cases.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Solitary on October 15, 2015, 11:58:39 AM
That is what I said and agree with the experts, but fuel will not cause steel to melt in a normal fire because it doesn't get hot enough.  The bottom floors way below the fire collapsed, the elevator shaft columns were holding up the entire building, but collapsed and melted from the walls falling down?  At no time in history has a metal building collapsed from a fire. I know and explainned how  bar joists can weaken and slip off their mountings like the experts say, but there is no way steel columns can collapse that hold up an entire building that were not even in a fire. The guy in the video was a trained expert in building fires, not just a man on the street.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: FaithIsFilth on October 15, 2015, 12:08:41 PM
I don't believe anyone. My biggest question is, what was the motivation for the US to stop the attack? I don't see any reason the US would have wanted to stop the attack. I see no motivation for them to stop the attack. That doesn't necessarily mean they purposely let the attack happen, but I see no reason for them to want to stop it.

http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a030399newpearlharbor&scale=0#a030399newpearlharbor

March 3, 1999: New Pearl Harbor Needed to Change US Military Policies, Says Expert

Andrew Krepinevich, Executive Director of the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, testifies before the Senate Armed Services Subcommittee on Emerging Threats and Capabilities: “There appears to be general agreement concerning the need to transform the US military into a significantly different kind of force from that which emerged victorious from the Cold and Gulf Wars. Yet this verbal support has not been translated into a defense program supporting transformation… the ‘critical mass’ needed to effect it has not yet been achieved. One may conclude that, in the absence of a strong external shock to the United States—a latter-day ‘Pearl Harbor’ of sorts—surmounting the barriers to transformation will likely prove a long, arduous process.” [US CONGRESS, 3/5/1999] This is very similar to what strategists at PNAC have said (see June 3, 1997).


The neo-cons said they needed a Pearl Harbor like event, so when just that was gifted to them in their laps, why would they want to stop exactly what they've been saying they need to implement their agenda? Were psychopaths Bush and Cheney running for office not to implement their agenda? Why would they want to stop 9/11 and hurt their own agenda going forward in a massive way?

Now, of course it can't be proved that they wanted it to happen, but I don't see why people should be called idiots for thinking that maybe, just maybe, the neo-con psychopaths who jerk off to millions of dead bodies overseas might not be being completely honest about what happened that day. No one gets called an idiot when they say Bush lied to get into Iraq. Can we prove that for certain though? Maybe Bush didn't lie and he was just acting on bad intelligence? Where is the proof that he lied?

In the end, it doesn't really matter if Bush and Cheney let 9/11 happen. If they had nothing to do with it, they are still pretty much just as bad. They've done far worse than 9/11 so it doesn't really matter. Invading Iraq is far worse than letting a few fairly insignificant poor souls be sacrificed. We may never really know, but who really cares? Even if the US government has been telling us the complete truth when it comes to 9/11, the Americans are still the biggest terrorists in the world and the biggest threat to peace in the world. I don't like how truthers are so sure of themselves, but I can respect that they are anti-war.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: josephpalazzo on October 15, 2015, 12:31:23 PM
That is what I said and agree with the experts, but fuel will not cause steel to melt in a normal fire because it doesn't get hot enough.  The bottom floors way below the fire collapsed, the elevator shaft columns were holding up the entire building, but collapsed and melted from the walls falling down?  At no time in history has a metal building collapsed from a fire. I know and explainned how  bar joists can weaken and slip off their mountings like the experts say, but there is no way steel columns can collapse that hold up an entire building that were not even in a fire. The guy in the video was a trained expert in building fires, not just a man on the street.

Unless you can prove that there is no way a building can collapse under such circumstances, you are just speculating.

EDIT: Don't forget the impact of the shockwave. That was heard by many who were there and heard it fractions of a second just before the collapse
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on October 15, 2015, 02:28:23 PM
That is what I said and agree with the experts, but fuel will not cause steel to melt in a normal fire because it doesn't get hot enough.
Steel doesn't have to melt to loose so much strength as to be not able to support a weight. Blacksmiths have known this for centuries. After all, it's part of how they work.

The bottom floors way below the fire collapsed, the elevator shaft columns were holding up the entire building, but collapsed and melted from the walls falling down?  At no time in history has a metal building collapsed from a fire.
Bullshit.

-1997, three 4-story buildings at the Kader Toy Factory in Singapore caught fire. All three collapsed from fire alone under two hours.
-2000, the Dogwood Elementary School in Virginia caught fire, resulting in the fire-affected sections collapsing in under half an hour.
-2005, fires broke out on the steel-framed Mumbai High North Platform, causing it to completely collapsed in two hours.
-2005, the top 11 floors of the Windsor Building in Madrid, the only part of the building that was steel-framed, was the only part to collapse and from fire alone (except the concrete inner core).
-April 2007, sections of Interstate 580 collapsed from fire alone.

The fact that fire can, indeed, collapse steel-framed structures (as demonstrated most dramatically in the WTC) is the reason why the World Financial Center, the new WTC7, and the Freedom Tower are being designed with a concrete core and concrete-engased outer columns. All of these structural engineers are putting their money where their mouth is.

I know and explainned how  bar joists can weaken and slip off their mountings like the experts say, but there is no way steel columns can collapse that hold up an entire building that were not even in a fire.
You do know that fire spreads, right? Especially when there's no sprinkler system to douse them (because of cut water mains).

Also, when the fire-heated parts collapse, the load above goes from dead to live load, which is significantly harder to deal with than a static load that the columns were actually designed to support. The potential energy of the towers were enormous, and as towers get higher, the relative structural strength of the materials shrink.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Hydra009 on October 15, 2015, 03:03:45 PM
A fire from airplane fuel cannot melt steel.
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/920/293/edc.png)
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Mike Cl on October 15, 2015, 06:26:02 PM
You're saying that if one Saudi commits a crime, all Saudis are guilty. Weird that you who continuously fear of being a victim of injustices have a twisted desire to punish the innocent.
What if 16/17 out of 19 were Saudi's?  And you don't think Bush and Co. were not actively searching for a way to attack Iraq?
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Baruch on October 15, 2015, 08:05:03 PM
No asshole, you keep making the same mistakes over and over. I'm not speaking of the Royal Saudis, but the average Saudi, which you were mocking, who has to live through a terrible repressive regime .

That was a convenient dodge.  I wasn't talking about the Queen, just Tiny Tim.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Baruch on October 15, 2015, 08:07:00 PM
Extreme heat can cause structural collapse in steel. It is well-documented and has been observed in many other cases.

More deflection ... WTC 7 and the Navy Wing of the Pentagon ... were very conveniently destroyed.  Ask ... who benefited?  It wasn't Osama.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Baruch on October 15, 2015, 08:16:45 PM
Who do I believe?  Not the CIA or FBI that is for sure ...

http://www.nextgov.com/technology-news/2015/10/cia-social-media-team-we-use-twitter-explain-our-mission/122627/

Their official job is to violate every moral, ethics or law possible ... supposedly for state security.  Not that I am opposed to state security, I am enthusiastically for it.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: josephpalazzo on October 16, 2015, 05:51:26 AM
What if 16/17 out of 19 were Saudi's?

There were other Saudis in the country at that times that had nothing to do with 9/11.

 
Quote
And you don't think Bush and Co. were not actively searching for a way to attack Iraq?

They were. What's that got to do with my discussion with Baruch?
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Baruch on October 16, 2015, 07:24:08 AM
There were other Saudis in the country at that times that had nothing to do with 9/11.
--------
 They were. What's that got to do with my discussion with Baruch?

Not all Saudis are royal.  Keeping the royals here as hostages ... would have been very effective.  And you question why I question everything the US government says or does, back to George Washington and that cherry tree ... I have worked in the guts of this same government for decades ... There are parasites I tell you, parasites.  I am a macro-biotic myself.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: josephpalazzo on October 16, 2015, 07:30:10 AM
Keeping the royals here as hostages ... would have been very effective.

Get a reality check. The Bushes and the Royal Saudis have been having a love affair for over 30 years.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Mike Cl on October 16, 2015, 08:45:18 AM
There were other Saudis in the country at that times that had nothing to do with 9/11.

 
They were. What's that got to do with my discussion with Baruch?
My simple point was that most of the people who took over the planes in 9/11 were Saudis.  Not one Iraqi.  Yet we ended up attacking Iraq and saying little to nothing about the Saudi connection to 9/11.  And of course there were millions of other Saudi people in the US then--so what?  I don't think that Cheney (along with is toady, Bush) engineered the attack; but the Bush admin.  was very lax in monitoring their intel.   If it had been a Dem in office, we would still be hearing about it in great detail.  They use this as an opportunity to further their agenda--oil and power.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: josephpalazzo on October 16, 2015, 09:14:02 AM
My simple point was that most of the people who took over the planes in 9/11 were Saudis.  Not one Iraqi.  Yet we ended up attacking Iraq and saying little to nothing about the Saudi connection to 9/11.  And of course there were millions of other Saudi people in the US then--so what?  I don't think that Cheney (along with is toady, Bush) engineered the attack; but the Bush admin.  was very lax in monitoring their intel.   If it had been a Dem in office, we would still be hearing about it in great detail.  They use this as an opportunity to further their agenda--oil and power.

That's another debate. I believe you've misunderstood the discussion I had with Baruch though no fault on your part as Baruch's posts are usually a bunch of unrelated comments strung out haphazardly. He probably doesn't even understand his own posts. Anyway, it came down to post #17; "You're saying that if one Saudi commits a crime, all Saudis are guilty. Weird that you who continuously fear of being a victim of injustices have a twisted desire to punish the innocent. " After which he responded: "Saudis innocent?  Bwahaha ... " And then I called him an asshole bigot... as you can see we were far from 9/11 at this point.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Mike Cl on October 16, 2015, 10:07:09 AM
That's another debate. I believe you've misunderstood the discussion I had with Baruch though no fault on your part as Baruch's posts are usually a bunch of unrelated comments strung out haphazardly. He probably doesn't even understand his own posts. Anyway, it came down to post #17; "You're saying that if one Saudi commits a crime, all Saudis are guilty. Weird that you who continuously fear of being a victim of injustices have a twisted desire to punish the innocent. " After which he responded: "Saudis innocent?  Bwahaha ... " And then I called him an asshole bigot... as you can see we were far from 9/11 at this point.
You are right--I came in, in mid sentence sort of like.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: josephpalazzo on October 16, 2015, 11:00:51 AM
You are right--I came in, in mid sentence sort of like.

Quite all right. It's the nature of threads on the internet: by the second post 50% chance it will go off on a tangent; 75% after the third; 95% after the fifth. Those numbers increase dramatically when tweedledee (Baruch) and tweedledum (jonb) have entered into the fray.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Solitary on October 16, 2015, 11:32:52 AM
 :08: :You_Rock_Emoticon:
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: SoldierofFortune on October 16, 2015, 03:46:16 PM
i'm afraid that 9/11 was inside job.
i can't create a sentence like this: if this is truth,..., i say this is truth, not just a conspiracy theory.
but there is something i can't understand. why? to convince all the world that they rule and control all the world politically, economically, socially? in a way showing brutality that kills the people.
what is their purpose by doing 9/11? and who are they?
what should we think and feel about this as an individual and a part of the society?
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: josephpalazzo on October 16, 2015, 03:51:05 PM
^^^

That sounds like a theist talking: I know in my heart that God exists. I can't really prove it, but something can't come out of nothing. I know I'm right.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: SoldierofFortune on October 16, 2015, 04:08:52 PM
^^^

That sounds like a theist talking: I know in my heart that God exists. I can't really prove it, but something can't come out of nothing. I know I'm right.
actually i define myself as an agnostic-atheist.

yes i can't prove the 9/11 but then why do they hide themselves strictly? everybody know in advance. high percetage of the americans ''believe'' that 9/22 was inside job. tell me who are they? it doesn't seem that america is controlled by american parliament which is chosen by the american people?
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: TomFoolery on October 16, 2015, 04:20:32 PM
actually i define myself as an agnostic-atheist.

yes i can't prove the 9/11 but then why do they hide themselves strictly?
Just like you can't prove God exists and why does he hide himself?

high percetage of the americans ''believe'' that 9/22 was inside job.
Which ones?

Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: josephpalazzo on October 16, 2015, 04:20:41 PM
actually i define myself as an agnostic-atheist.

yes i can't prove the 9/11 but then why do they hide themselves strictly? everybody know in advance. high percetage of the americans ''believe'' that 9/22 was inside job. tell me who are they? it doesn't seem that america is controlled by american parliament which is chosen by the american people?

The crashing of two airplanes hijacked by members of Al Qaeda into the WTC pretty much tells the story.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: jonb on October 16, 2015, 04:21:36 PM
Quite all right. It's the nature of threads on the internet: by the second post 50% chance it will go off on a tangent; 75% after the third; 95% after the fifth. Those numbers increase dramatically when tweedledee (Baruch) and tweedledum (jonb) have entered into the fray.

Brilliant, your saying 'Dramatically' = 2 posts
Your problem in making this attack is that you have set the bench mark for going off topic so high that there is little room left for going further off topic, and as such you have rendered your attack meaningless.

Secondly you have shown a marked lack in understanding the consequences of what you write.
In that you use a thread 'Who do You Believe' to make a post which is little other than a personal attack, which illustrates how you are not even aware of your own boundaries.

And should I remind you that it is considered a general rule once a poster feels the need to make personal attacks rather than talk about the subject it is usually a sign they have lost any argument.

Actually although we have disagreed, I thought more of you than that.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ledbawK58J1qalu6bo1_400.gif)
The words shot, own and foot come to mind.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: SoldierofFortune on October 16, 2015, 04:32:47 PM
Just like you can't prove God exists and why does he hide himself?
Which ones?
they are not the same thing. it's understood from what you say that so-called god exist and we can't just prove and explain him.
but we can expain 9/11 by lots of evidences. at least the evidences and logic dictate that we should believe the explanation.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: josephpalazzo on October 16, 2015, 04:40:53 PM
Quite all right. It's the nature of threads on the internet: by the second post 50% chance it will go off on a tangent; 75% after the third; 95% after the fifth. Those numbers increase dramatically when tweedledee (Baruch) and tweedledum (jonb) have entered into the fray.


And should I remind you that it is considered a general rule once a poster feels the need to make personal attacks rather than talk about the subject it is usually a sign they have lost any argument.




Coming from the same guy who has no qualms in treating all Christians as "Christiard", that's rich.


Besides you're too dense to see the humor in that post.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: jonb on October 16, 2015, 05:05:44 PM
Who's got sore little tootsies then?

(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/4570055/foot-bath-o.gif)
Relax those tiny toes.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Baruch on October 16, 2015, 07:41:25 PM
Quite all right. It's the nature of threads on the internet: by the second post 50% chance it will go off on a tangent; 75% after the third; 95% after the fifth. Those numbers increase dramatically when tweedledee (Baruch) and tweedledum (jonb) have entered into the fray.

I rather like those two brothers.  Very mad cap.  But do you have time for it, oh Mad Hatter?
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Baruch on October 16, 2015, 07:44:12 PM
i'm afraid that 9/11 was inside job.
i can't create a sentence like this: if this is truth,..., i say this is truth, not just a conspiracy theory.
but there is something i can't understand. why? to convince all the world that they rule and control all the world politically, economically, socially? in a way showing brutality that kills the people.
what is their purpose by doing 9/11? and who are they?
what should we think and feel about this as an individual and a part of the society?

Whoever was involved, they show that a great darkness lurks in the hearts of men, and it isn't The Shadow.  But then one liability of skepticism is to dismiss the existence of evil in others in general, and that of evil in oneself in particular.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Baruch on October 16, 2015, 07:45:22 PM
^^^

That sounds like a theist talking: I know in my heart that God exists. I can't really prove it, but something can't come out of nothing. I know I'm right.

So anyone who claims that there is ... bad behavior ... is a tin foil hat who believes in the Easter Bunny?  Yes, colored eggs ... very evil indeed.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Baruch on October 16, 2015, 07:47:00 PM
Just like you can't prove God exists and why does he hide himself?
Which ones?

Obviously the Perps will tell you it was Iraqis for sure ... bwahaha.  At least if Bush Jr had told us it was Tahiti, we could have gotten a great vacation place out of our invasions.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Baruch on October 16, 2015, 07:48:54 PM
The crashing of two airplanes hijacked by members of Al Qaeda into the WTC pretty much tells the story.

That is probably true.  But who is Al Qaida ... and why did an FBI agent check up on the health of Osama, when he was in Dubai earlier that year?  We had already tried to drone him, why didn't we pull a KGB and put a little ricin in his drink?

And back to a previous point ... why is Joe so anxious to protect the almost non-existent reputation of the US government?  I am a criminal working for a criminal organization (the US government) ... so I am not disturbed by all this.  Except good crime is efficient and profitable.  My problem with most of the Adminstrations in my lifetime is that they are both inefficient and unprofitable.  If Attila the Hun had behaved like this, his men would have kicked his hunny-buns.  More pillage faster ... or let another Hun rule.

Here is a popular book from the 80s that set the tone:

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/237487.Leadership_Secrets_of_Attila_the_Hun
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: josephpalazzo on October 17, 2015, 04:36:06 AM


And back to a previous point ... why is Joe so anxious to protect the almost non-existent reputation of the US government?

So if I say that Conspiracy Theory is fucking bullshit, I'm protecting the US government!? Do you realize what an asshole you are? It's a rhetorical question, don't bother to answer.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Baruch on October 17, 2015, 10:38:46 AM
Everyone on the Internet is a troll, working for the KGB or CIA.  The only question is, who is a double agent ;-)

If is common psyops practice to create conspiracy theories ... both to distract people who are paranoid about the government (I am not) ... and to make the actual conspiracies look like the work of drunk nut jobs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adYGUai7PNc

The US has been into this, since George Washington's secret agents in NYC ... uncovered the Aaron Burr treason to kidnap/kill George Washington.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: josephpalazzo on October 17, 2015, 10:55:48 AM
Everyone on the Internet is a troll, working for the KGB or CIA.  The only question is, who is a double agent ;-)


Ok, that was good for a laugh...
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Baruch on October 17, 2015, 11:28:38 AM
Ok, that was good for a laugh...

I like to make people laugh, not cry, Agent 000 ;-)
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: josephpalazzo on October 17, 2015, 01:39:26 PM
I like to make people laugh, not cry, Agent 000 ;-)

Are you auditioning for the next Seinfeld reunion?
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Baruch on October 17, 2015, 02:50:25 PM
Are you auditioning for the next Seinfeld reunion?

How about the character, Maxwell Smart ... in a remake of the Nude Bomb ... only this bomb reveals the true identities of all Internet posters?  eek!
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: josephpalazzo on October 17, 2015, 03:23:46 PM
How about the character, Maxwell Smart ... in a remake of the Nude Bomb ... only this bomb reveals the true identities of all Internet posters?  eek!

I'm already naked...
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Baruch on October 17, 2015, 03:28:11 PM
I'm already naked...

TMK ... at your age, do you look like a pale California Raisin?  Au currant?
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: josephpalazzo on October 17, 2015, 05:26:01 PM
TMK ... at your age, do you look like a pale California Raisin?  Au currant?

Is it already the flue season?
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Baruch on March 13, 2017, 07:02:37 AM
yea i believe in god :)

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No advertising.  I don't believe in G-d ... I know G-d.  Kosher yogi.
Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Lokesh123 on March 23, 2017, 06:10:10 AM
i believe in Myself



























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Title: Re: Who Do You Believe?
Post by: Baruch on March 23, 2017, 07:00:34 AM
i believe in Myself

Good for you, now go and make an intro post, please.


























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