-Sharia Law causing immense poverty
-Influx of immigrants fleeing their shitty countries
-Said immigrants crying about the country they moved to not being shitty
-Immense abuse of women(understatement)
-Sanctioned pedophilia.. /Fighting for the right to marry off their children
-Dressing up little boys and raping them being part of their culture
am i missing an invention or something???
Well in the Golden Age, Islam produced the first scientist: Ibn al-Haytham (965CE - 1040CE). It's too unfortunate and a great lost to humanity that a bunch of religious fundamentalists crushed the Golden Age and sent the Islamic countries back to the Stone Age.
http://lostislamichistory.com/ibn-al-haytham-the-first-scientist/
Islam, in its past, was something of a learned culture and one that did lead to the findings of certain things.
They discovered coffee, how the eye processes light, Distillation, surgical instrument, and dozens of other things when their culture was lead by great thinkers on par with greece and china. As Joseph said though, sadly, the country today is a shadow of its former self.
Quote... sadly, the country today is a shadow of its former self.
Eh?
I realise that was most likely a typo, but I do think it unintentionally hit on something many people think; that the Muslim world is at all homogenous instead of a region of extremely different cultures. To say, "The Muslim World..." as one organization is akin to saying, "The United States..." and then going on stereotypes about how we all ride horses, wear cowboy hats and blue jeans and listen to Garth Brooks while beating our wives in the trailer park.
There is a huge difference between Saudi Arabia and Iran, Egypt and Pakistan, Turkey and Singapore, Palestine and Jordan, Syria and the U.A.E.. And that is just in the Muslim world and not recognizing Muslim immigrants who have made huge contributions to their new countries; Ahmed Zewail who was the first Egyptian to win a Nobel Prize in Chemistry, Prof. Atta-Ur-Rahman (another renowned chemist) who won the UNESCO Science prize, Dr Mahbub ul Haq who created the Human Development Index, and so on. Likewise if you go to any university today, you will find many Muslims who are mastering in chemistry, physics, mathematics, and so on.
Is the Islamic world predominately third world? Yes, and a large part has to do with religious fundamentalism. However you have to also consider that most of the Islamic world up until as little as 30 years ago were puppet states of either the United States or the Soviet Union, and even shorter before they overthrew the dictators those powers placed to rule. Likewise you have to consider that the majority of extremist groups were Western backed to fight the Soviets, and Saudi Wahhabism has been propped up by the Western world's dependence on oil. It is ultimately a problem that is both incredibly complex and incredibly holistic... you cannot find one or two causes but rather have to look at a huge field of history, culture, economics, post-imperialism governments and so on to even begin to understand why the Middle East is in the state it is in.
-------------------------
I was going to respond seriously to OP, but after reading his post several times I feel that would be a quite wasted endeavor so... bullet point response time!
Quote-Sharia Law causing immense poverty
Frankly just wrong on every level.
Quote-Influx of immigrants fleeing their shitty countries
-Said immigrants crying about the country they moved to not being shitty
A. Made a long response to this for someone else awhile back but... people have said the same thing of my ancestors, of Mexicans, of Irish, of Catholics, of "Communists", etc. etc. . It is just a cyclical way the world works, to blame immigrants for everything.
B. Shows some real sense of historical, socio-economic and political ignorance of why they are fleeing.
Quote-Immense abuse of women(understatement)
As does some sects of Christianity. By the way, of the top worse countries to be a woman, Christian countries and Muslim countries share the stage almost equally, with a few Hindu, Buddhist and whatever China claims to be and actually is sprinkled in there. Abuse of women is not an Islamic thing, nor a Christian thing... not even an Abrahamic religion thing.
Quote-Sanctioned pedophilia
Maybe you have heard of this thing called, "The Vatican". If not, I recommend you look at some of the stories about them lately. Your world view that the West would never sanction pedophilia might just be a bit shaken though... so you have been warned.
QuoteDressing up little boys and raping them being part of their culture
A. Again, implying the Muslim world is at all homogenous culturally.
B.(http://www.stmscranton.org/Website%20Images/AltarBoys.jpg)
Your right, it was a typo. Force of habit, but I was referring to islam in the same sense as ancient greece in its culture and the Persian culture, in the more theocratic sense.
I am sure of the oil rich countries many advances have been made in manufacturing and agriculture. They probably have their own tractor and automobile factories and large farms that produce millions of pounds of foods and certainly they would lead the world in animal products and have huge plants that produce cheese and other dairy products and those on the ocean with all their money probably lead the world in seafood production……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………. or maybe not.
Quote from: Shiranu on September 27, 2015, 07:19:30 PM
Eh?
I realise that was most likely a typo, but I do think it unintentionally hit on something many people think; that the Muslim world is at all homogenous instead of a region of extremely different cultures. To say, "The Muslim World..." as one organization is akin to saying, "The United States..." and then going on stereotypes about how we all ride horses, wear cowboy hats and blue jeans and listen to Garth Brooks while beating our wives in the trailer park.
There is a huge difference between Saudi Arabia and Iran, Egypt and Pakistan, Turkey and Singapore, Palestine and Jordan, Syria and the U.A.E.. And that is just in the Muslim world and not recognizing Muslim immigrants who have made huge contributions to their new countries; Ahmed Zewail who was the first Egyptian to win a Nobel Prize in Chemistry, Prof. Atta-Ur-Rahman (another renowned chemist) who won the UNESCO Science prize, Dr Mahbub ul Haq who created the Human Development Index, and so on. Likewise if you go to any university today, you will find many Muslims who are mastering in chemistry, physics, mathematics, and so on.
Is the Islamic world predominately third world? Yes, and a large part has to do with religious fundamentalism. However you have to also consider that most of the Islamic world up until as little as 30 years ago were puppet states of either the United States or the Soviet Union, and even shorter before they overthrew the dictators those powers placed to rule. Likewise you have to consider that the majority of extremist groups were Western backed to fight the Soviets, and Saudi Wahhabism has been propped up by the Western world's dependence on oil. It is ultimately a problem that is both incredibly complex and incredibly holistic... you cannot find one or two causes but rather have to look at a huge field of history, culture, economics, post-imperialism governments and so on to even begin to understand why the Middle East is in the state it is in.
-------------------------
I was going to respond seriously to OP, but after reading his post several times I feel that would be a quite wasted endeavor so... bullet point response time!
Frankly just wrong on every level.
A. Made a long response to this for someone else awhile back but... people have said the same thing of my ancestors, of Mexicans, of Irish, of Catholics, of "Communists", etc. etc. . It is just a cyclical way the world works, to blame immigrants for everything.
B. Shows some real sense of historical, socio-economic and political ignorance of why they are fleeing.
As does some sects of Christianity. By the way, of the top worse countries to be a woman, Christian countries and Muslim countries share the stage almost equally, with a few Hindu, Buddhist and whatever China claims to be and actually is sprinkled in there. Abuse of women is not an Islamic thing, nor a Christian thing... not even an Abrahamic religion thing.
Maybe you have heard of this thing called, "The Vatican". If not, I recommend you look at some of the stories about them lately. Your world view that the West would never sanction pedophilia might just be a bit shaken though... so you have been warned.
A. Again, implying the Muslim world is at all homogeneous culturally.
B.(http://www.stmscranton.org/Website%20Images/AltarBoys.jpg)
though does protest too much.
Don't bash Christianity to a bunch of atheists! We don't give a crap. We bash all religions equally. What Christianity does or doesn't do doesn't alleviate the Islamic doctrine which IS being used as an excuse for all the above in their own backward countries. Red herring.
well they have added a rather snappy style of dress…...
QuoteDon't bash Christianity to a bunch of atheists! We don't give a crap. We bash all religions equally.
If you want to accuse me of a red herring, perhaps do not begin with a logical fallacy of thinking all atheists are like yourself. Unless you want to accuse me of not being an atheist.
What you mean to say is, "Don't bash Christianity to a bunch of anti-theists. We don't give a crap. We bash all religions equally.". To which I reply, "Okay. That's nice. Have fun with that. Just don't expect any more respect than you give."
QuoteWhat Christianity does or doesn't do doesn't alleviate the Islamic doctrine which IS being used as an excuse for all the above in their own backward countries.
Right. So showing that there are clearly deeper underlying causes since it's a problem endemic to all of humanity, regardless of religion, is now trying to alleviate the blame from Islam.
If by "alleviate the blame from Islamic doctrine" you mean not accuse them of things that are not an Islamic thing but a human thing, then by all means I am trying to alleviate the blame. But if all you got out of that post was, "Lol Islam is evil, don't make excuses!" then I really think you need to take a nice look at your prejudices before responding.
QuoteI am sure of the oil rich countries many advances have been made in manufacturing and agriculture.
Hmmm...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_sector_composition
Funny, the oil rich countries seem to lead in Agriculture and Production by GDP. And you expect a group of countries that look like this...
(http://www.touristmaker.com/images/saudi-arabia/saudi-arabia-desert.jpg)
(http://arabiangazette.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/desert-safari-uae.jpg)
...to be world leaders in exporting crops? I think you do not have much of a concept of how farming works.
(P.S. - Iran and Turkey, two of the countries that actually have ample farmland, are in the top 5 countries of food producing/exporting countries).
Quote from: Shiranu on September 27, 2015, 09:40:30 PM
If you want to accuse me of a red herring, perhaps do not begin with a logical fallacy of thinking all atheists are like yourself. Unless you want to accuse me of not being an atheist.
What you mean to say is, "Don't bash Christianity to a bunch of anti-theists. We don't give a crap. We bash all religions equally.". To which I reply, "Okay. That's nice. Have fun with that. Just don't expect any more respect than you give."
I don't, don't worry. I tend to not care about getting respect of people I don't respect.
Quote from: Shiranu on September 27, 2015, 09:40:30 PMRight. So showing that there are clearly deeper underlying causes since it's a problem endemic to all of humanity, regardless of religion, is now trying to alleviate the blame from Islam.
If by "alleviate the blame from Islamic doctrine" you mean not accuse them of things that are not an Islamic thing but a human thing, then by all means I am trying to alleviate the blame. But if all you got out of that post was, "Lol Islam is evil, don't make excuses!" then I really think you need to take a nice look at your prejudices before responding.
Hmmm...
I guess you can't understand what Islamic doctrine supporting shitty behavior means. Of course all of those things happen world wide but there is a strong prevalence amongst fundamentalists. Ignoring that fact is just negligent. And I'm not making excuses you are! Sorry but islam doesn't get a pass! It's a shitty religion! I have no prejudices, islam is a religion not a race! So then maybe yes I am prejudice to the extreme where any or all religions are concerned.
QuoteI don't, don't worry. I tend to not care about getting respect of people I don't respect.
Again, fair enough. A shitty and immature outlook on life, but you have every right to it and I doubt you care one way or another.
QuoteI have no prejudices, islam is a religion not a race!
Look up the definition of prejudice. And go back and re-read my first post if you are ever interested in shaking the, frankly, dead wrong world view that Islam is at all some uniform entity.
QuoteSo then maybe yes I am prejudice to the extreme where any or all religions are concerned.
Sounds like a personal problem then.
Quote from: Shiranu on September 27, 2015, 09:59:06 PM
Look up the definition of prejudice. And go back and re-read my first post if you are ever interested in shaking the, frankly, dead wrong world view that Islam is at all some uniform entity.
UM No true Scotsman fallacy. No one fucking said that islam is a uniform entity. I call it like I see it. Islam does not get a pass from criticism.
Quote from: Shiranu on September 27, 2015, 09:59:06 PM
Sounds like a personal problem then.
Then why comment on it?
Quote from: Munch on September 27, 2015, 06:11:19 PM
Islam, in its past, was something of a learned culture and one that did lead to the findings of certain things.
They discovered coffee, how the eye processes light, Distillation, surgical instrument, and dozens of other things when their culture was lead by great thinkers on par with greece and china. As Joseph said though, sadly, the country today is a shadow of its former self.
And don't forget preserving the "pagan" knowledge of classical Greece while Europe was burning pre-christian works as being "ungodly". Much of what we know about classical Hellenic science and mathematics exists only because early Islamic cultures preserved knowledge rather than burned it. Many of the stars in the sky still bear the names given them by Islamic astronomers -- Aldebaran, Algol, Altair, Betelgeuse, Deneb, Denebola, Fomalhaut, Mizar, Rasalhague, Rigel and Vega are only the best known of them.
'Algebra' is a word of Arabic origin, and 'algorithm'. So is 'alcohol'. And 'chemistry', via 'alchemy'. And 'candy', 'cipher', and even 'tuna' which you could possibly keep in a 'jar'.
Now, if you change that question to "What positive things has Islam added to the world
lately?" it becomes harder to answer. But then, that's a hard question for
any religion to answer.
Quote from: Shiranu on September 27, 2015, 09:59:06 PM
Again, fair enough. A shitty and immature outlook on life, but you have every right to it and I doubt you care one way or another.
No one wants Respect, we all want power and fear!
Seriously though, they fought off the Mongolian empire for a bit when the Delhi sultanate was up and about. And won a lot. Now that's badass.
Replace Mr. Kim with Arabic guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afnJbdT4t5g
QuoteUM No true Scotsman fallacy. No one fucking said that islam is a uniform entity. I call it like I see it. Islam does not get a pass from criticism.
No one is calling for Islam to get a pass, but when you make statements about the "Islamic doctrine" with certain aspects in mind, you are implying that all Muslims are the same, and that all Islam is the same. You yell "No True Scotsman" when that is the very thing you are saying; that only the Islam you criticize exists, and that it doesn't have different sects and different levels of adherences that vary from culture to culture.
Do not project your failure to realise that mistake on to me.
QuoteThen why comment on it?
Your the one waving his edgy dick about how you don't give a fuck in public, not me. Why bring it up if you don't want people to comment on it?
QuoteNow, if you change that question to "What positive things has Islam added to the world lately?" it becomes harder to answer. But then, that's a hard question for any religion to answer.
This is the question that should be asked, rather than focusing on a xenophobic view as OP has.
Besides advancing science, preserving ancient Greek books, building remarkable buildings, establishing trade routes, and doing pioneering work in world exploration, what have the Muslims ever done for us?
Apparently Islam's history stops with Al Ghazali (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ghazali) who halted all Islamic intellectual advancement in CE 1111 and "reformed" Islam to it's original 7th century mindset.
After the "Golden Age" there is nothing at all that is coming out from Islam that was useful for the advance of humanity.
By the way, those fabled scientist were from the conquered lands. Not Arab Muslims. (http://indiafacts.co.in/the-myth-of-islamic-science/)
Have a look:
The Closing of the Muslim Mind: How Intellectual Suicide Created the Modern Islamist Crisis (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Closing-Muslim-Mind-Intellectual-Islamist-ebook/dp/B00JBRUKZS/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1443412909&sr=1-1&keywords=the+closing+of+the+muslim+mind)
Anything that is taught about Islam today in the academia is putting Islam's image in only favorable light.
Airbrushing out the violent, imperialistic, intolerant ideology that is Islam.
There is nothing at all taught about the invasion, conquest, mass extermination of people by Islam for 14 centuries. (270 million butchered and counting)
See here: http://www.historyofjihad.org/ Or something more recent: http://thereligionofpeace.com/
You won't find any of that in schools or universities. It is all scrubbed squeaky clean.
Have a read: Islam 101 (http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101)
Come on, you don't go to college to get educated ... you go to get brainwashed. Young people have dirty minds, and need to be brainwashed.
Before Muhammad, Arabs were only noted for the domestication of the camel, erotic/heroic poetry and tribal warfare. With few exceptions, mainly Arabs who picked up civilization from conquered neighbors ... that is still all they are noted for, except petroleum has replaced erotic/heroic poetry. People who have been forced to live in marginal lands for millennia, tend not to be progressive. On the other hand, most Muslims are not Arabs ... so there is still hope for them, particularly if they are able to use both hands (in the desert you use the left hand for defecation and clean up with hot sand). This is why no traditional Arab has a positive potty attitude. Not to mention stinking, spitting, biting, kicking camels.
One of the Sunni problems, is that education is still controlled by the imams. This used to be a problem in Judaism too, about 150 years ago. In the West we kicked the clerics out of college or isolated them to seminaries ... but that was only 100 years ago. Before that, our education was pretty bad too. When a madrassah primary educated Muslim encounters Western secular learning, it is a bit like those folks who were kidnapped by the aliens in Encounters Of A Third Kind. Of course for the past 900 years, the West invaded Muslim lands like bad-ass aliens from Teen Screamer movies. The West has yet to successfully remove the original inhabitants off the petroleum reserve, genocide the people living on top of it, and put the survivors in reserve-ations to be stared at like a human exhibit from Planet Of The Apes.
Quote from: pr126 on September 28, 2015, 12:25:24 AM
Apparently Islam's history stops with Al Ghazali (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ghazali) who halted all Islamic intellectual advancement in CE 1111 and "reformed" Islam to it's original 7th century mindset.
Which is... what? Islam in the 7th century was considered a Christian heresy alongside Iconoclasm and Monophysitism. The overwhelming majority of the "Muslim" troops who attacked the Eastern Roman Empire were Christians; the Muslims themselves didn't make much of an effort to convert people until much later. The reason the Caliphate was able to form in the first place was because the ERE was doing everything in its power to suppress heresies, while the Muslims were seen as liberators by many of the locals they conquered. They went into Persia for much the same reason that the ERE often did: there were Christians there under a Zoroastrian yoke, and they believed they were acting in the interests of their fellow "People of the Book."
I may attack modern Islam a lot, but I will give credit where and when it's due. Islam was
not seen as a negative force by most of the people conquered by the soon-to-be Caliphate.
There is also a possibility that your sources are inaccurate?
I have studied Islam, and came to a conclusion that the ideology itself has absolutely no redeeming qualities.
Never has had any, and never will.
Quote from: Shiranu on September 27, 2015, 10:35:55 PM
No one is calling for Islam to get a pass, but when you make statements about the "Islamic doctrine" with certain aspects in mind, you are implying that all Muslims are the same, and that all Islam is the same. You yell "No True Scotsman" when that is the very thing you are saying; that only the Islam you criticize exists, and that it doesn't have different sects and different levels of adherences that vary from culture to culture.
Funny you seem to have a problem with any one criticizing Islam in any form. I was just pointing out that you pointed at Christianity to try and excuse Islam. There is no reason for you to protect Islam. We're criticizing the religion no different than we criticize Christianity.
Did I ever say we should hate Muslims or what ever it is you seem to think I'm prejudice about?
I know that not all Muslims are the same. Just as all Christians are not the same. That doesn't excuse the violence and pedophilia that goes on with religion as their excuse. Just like the fact that the bible supports slavery but not all Christians own slaves nor believe in owning slaves. Just because some Christians don't or never owned slaves doesn't excuse the Christians who do or did. So why do you expect me to excuse the Muslims who do follow the Koran word for word? Are you denying they exist? Because that's what you are trying to insist.
Quote from: Shiranu on September 27, 2015, 10:35:55 PMDo not project your failure to realise that mistake on to me.
Your the one waving his edgy dick about how you don't give a fuck in public, not me. Why bring it up if you don't want people to comment on it?
This is the question that should be asked, rather than focusing on a xenophobic view as OP has.
There's nothing wrong with what the OP posted. As you can see our members have actually answered the OP's question. This does not make him a xenophobe. Many people who feel this way have valid reasons for feeling this way it's not all roses and sunshine coming out of the middle east. I think he(or she) feels frustrated because there are immigrants that bring their ill belief systems with them. The same problems people are running from often follow people where ever they go. Not addressing the issue just because you want to call people a xenophobe is actually counter productive.
Plenty of people here have given good examples of good things that came from Muslims albeit not from Islam it's self.
I have noticed that quite a few posters rush in to "soften the blow" for the image of Islam, which I am sure they would not do for Christianity.
There is also the usual tu quoque any time Islam is the subject. No way one can discuss Islam without invoking Christianity.
Thankfully, the race card is no longer used here, (although it is everywhere else) but still the labels islamophobe, hater, more recently xenophobe is used to try and shut down any
negative discussion on Islam.
QuoteI may attack modern Islam a lot, but I will give credit where and when it's due.
The modern Islam some people see is in fact the original Islam as per dictates of the Islamic scriptures.
ISIS, Boko Haram, the Taliban etc. are pure original Islam as it was practiced by the "prophet" Muhammad.
Any reprehensible act they do such murder, crucifixion, beheading, cutting off limbs, burning alive, slavery, rape can be found in the Quran.
Whenever there is any acceptable thing done by Muslims it is despite Islam, not because of it.
The great problem with theocracy, is its hard to separate the people from the religion, and the accomplishments of the people being just that by itself instead of being 'an accomplishment of the religion'
Quote from: pr126 on September 28, 2015, 04:16:56 AM
I have noticed that quite a few posters rush in to "soften the blow" for the image of Islam, which I am sure they would not do for Christianity.
Let's call them by their proper name: Islamic apologists.
If they were Christian apologists, they would be run out of this forum.
Quote from: pr126 on September 28, 2015, 04:16:56 AM
I have noticed that quite a few posters rush in to "soften the blow" for the image of Islam, which I am sure they would not do for Christianity.
No
apologia for Islam here. Just a respect for historical fact, as best we know. Same as I would have to credit Christianity with being the inspiration/source for towering works of art like Bach's
St Matthew's Passion. The historical fact is that the Islamic world, at one time, was the center of scientific and mathematical work. They have abdicated that since, but that doesn't change history.
Quote from: trdsf on September 28, 2015, 07:08:19 AM
No apologia for Islam here. Just a respect for historical fact, as best we know. Same as I would have to credit Christianity with being the inspiration/source for towering works of art like Bach's St Matthew's Passion. The historical fact is that the Islamic world, at one time, was the center of scientific and mathematical work. They have abdicated that since, but that doesn't change history.
This
Quote from: pr126 on September 28, 2015, 02:14:14 AM
There is also a possibility that your sources are inaccurate?
I don't think the Byzantines had any great love for the people invading them, so I'm not exactly worried about bias here.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on September 28, 2015, 08:23:38 AM
I don't think the Byzantines had any great love for the people invading them, so I'm not exactly worried about bias here.
People often forget that armies in the past were often made of mercenaries, people of different tribes, people of different faith, and so on - pretty much like the US army used warriors from different tribes to fight in the ole West. History is rarely black and white, but a multitude of shades of grey.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on September 28, 2015, 08:23:38 AM
I don't think the Byzantines had any great love for the people invading them, so I'm not exactly worried about bias here.
The Byzantines were Christian, who had eliminated secular study and philosophy from Alexandria to Athens. Scholars had to flee to Persia to escape persecution. In the end only the seminary in Constantinople was left. The West was even more ruined, with only Irish monks to bring literacy back from W to E. The Persians were Zoroastrian. And I have known one Zoroastrian. They are even more losers in history than Jews, since they have never made it back.
Who said "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it"?
[spoiler] It's a rhetorical question[/spoiler]
Same one who said ... "Speak softly, and pilot a Predator drone" ;-)
Strategy = minimize enemies and maximize friends
Tactics = help your friends and harm your enemies
Intel = loose lips sink ships
Quote from: pr126 on September 28, 2015, 04:16:56 AM
I have noticed that quite a few posters rush in to "soften the blow" for the image of Islam, which I am sure they would not do for Christianity.
There is also the usual tu quoque any time Islam is the subject. No way one can discuss Islam without invoking Christianity.
Thankfully, the race card is no longer used here, (although it is everywhere else) but still the labels islamophobe, hater, more recently xenophobe is used to try and shut down any negative discussion on Islam.
Might have something to do with most people here being from majority Christian countries.
Kinda like Bill Maher, what he says about islam feels kinda wrong but i would be very happy if his shows were broadcasted in some Islamic countries. Muslim needs these kind of messages not Christain, xenophobes or whatever.
Quote from: pr126 on September 28, 2015, 04:16:56 AM
The modern Islam some people see is in fact the original Islam as per dictates of the Islamic scriptures.
ISIS, Boko Haram, the Taliban etc. are pure original Islam as it was practiced by the "prophet" Muhammad.
Any reprehensible act they do such murder, crucifixion, beheading, cutting off limbs, burning alive, slavery, rape can be found in the Quran.
Whenever there is any acceptable thing done by Muslims it is despite Islam, not because of it.
Does that matter? Its religion from medieval age, it will have shitty stuffs in it. No Muslim of today will ever go and ask Muhammad, 'Hi, is this shit ok?'
They are going to believe whatever fairy tails they want to believe like Muhammad was the most perfect human ever to live.
http://darulfiqh.com/the-romantic-prophet-how-to-be-romantic-your-spouse/
" By looking attentively at the biography of the Prophet salallahu alaihi wasallam, you will find that he was the most romantic person to walk this Earth." :wtff:
It always amuses me, how anti-idolators fall so easy under the sway of idolatry. Once Baghdad was established by the Abbasids, over 100 years after Muhammad, the Arabs and the Hajj were becoming less relevant ... under dominance from Persian and Byzantine culture. The whole haram for women was borrowed from those two cultures for instance. At that point also, conversion to Islam became much easier ... before that you had to be adopted by an Arabic tribe. This was creating fear among the Arab Muslims ... that they were being absorbed. Islam was becoming very Shia. So Sunni Islam was invented to reestablish the dominance of the Arab Muslims over all other Muslims. It was that point that Muhammad and the Rashidun became important again vs the Caliphs. This tug of war has continued over the last 1250 years. The Sunni reactionaries created the hagiographies of Muhammad, and gathered the Hadith over the next 100 years. This is clearly idolatry of a man ;-). This apotheosis has happened to every successful religion founder whether legendary or historical.
When people are weak, religion takes over.