http://news.yahoo.com/4-deputy-clerks-no-eligible-couples-denied-marriage-205827627.html
I know the story is getting old and people are losing interest, but the antics just keep on going. Now some gay couples and straight couples as well, want marriage licenses with Kim Davis' signature on them. I know that there have been questions of the validity of the licenses issued in her absence. I think the questions of validity may have been from both sides of the debate, but for different reasons. Davis was trying desperately to find a way to prevail, either by outfoxing the courts, or outright disobedience. So creating a situation where validity could be denied may have been seen as a Win by Davis herself.
Now Gay couples are starting to question the validity also. Does this case have to go back to the courts to determine validity of the altered licenses? Doesn't someone already know the answer to this? I don't know, but it seems like somebody must know. And really, why would the signature of the County Clerk be so important? Couldn't the County Commissioners hold a meeting and declare deputies signatures be legally valid? Is Davis the only one in the whole courthouse qualified to check that the requirements for marriage have been met? Do you have to get special training to be an authority on marriage requirements? Come on now, it seems absurd that this gets so much attention. Is it really an issue?
Is there more to the demand that Davis sign the documents herself? I suspect there is, but I'm not sure what the demand accomplishes. It seems like the issue could be remedied more easily without more court rulings. I guess the immediate answer people need right now is, "Are the licenses valid or not?" Would someone in the court house just step up the plate and make an announcement or something? :41:
Surely there's someone who can step in to ensure legal validity. In actual practice, this little stunt will amount to nothing.
In the South anyway, very rarely have public officials really faced any penalties for defying court orders. Sure, they've been charged with contempt of court, sometimes paid small fines, etc. Ross Barnett was held in contempt for refusing the desegregation order in Mississippi. He was ordered to pay $10,000 a day and sentenced to jail but nothing ever came from that. Historically, contempt of court charges for public officials amount to a dog's fart.
I feel like if I were getting married in Rowan County, gay or straight, I wouldn't want that cunt's name on my marriage license.
Quote from: TomFoolery on September 22, 2015, 08:51:25 AM
I feel like if I were getting married in Rowan County, gay or straight, I wouldn't want that cunt's name on my marriage license.
LOL Me too! But on the other side of the coin, you would have her signature on your marriage license. When you get divorced, you could sell the license the way someone would auction off a document signed by Hitler. It's got to be worth something. I wish I would have bought several cases of Billy Beer back during the Carter administration, it would probably be stale by now, but I bet it's worth more than the going price back then.
how is she not in jail yet?
Actually if I was gay, I would want her signature on my marriage certificate , it would be like batman keeping that coin in his bat cave.
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on September 22, 2015, 11:25:34 AM
how is she not in jail yet?
I'm guessing that the judge feels the bases are covered with deputies signatures. However, I have to wonder if her changing the forms may be contempt of court. This is what seems to me to be an attempt to outfox the courts, and I doubt the court likes this very much, but I only know as much as what the media presents. She seems to want to leave the issue unsettled, thereby dragging things out legally. If she doesn't want to sign the documents, I don't have a problem with her authorizing someone else to sign them, but she keeps trying to gain the upper hand and remain in control of other people's marriages.
She is not the best ambassador for Christianity, and I'm sure with at least a few Christians, she's turning people away from the church. In my wildest dreams, I'd like to think this will become a turning point for the heavy boot of Christian oppression, but that's in my wildest dreams. In a less extreme line of thinking, I hope that some Christians are taking a closer look at their religion and re-evaluating it.
She doesn't need to be put in jail. What is needed is a court order to force the governor or the state legistlators to remove her from office due to incompetance. It is obvious she is not fit for office because she cannot fulfill her duties.
I think they just want her signature just to rub it in her face that she signed a gay couples certificate.
Much to my disgrace I no longer care. I'm going to go get a cup of coffee and when I get back I still won't care.
http://news.yahoo.com/kentucky-clerk-davis-rejects-marriage-licenses-invalid-abc-125551704.html
QuoteIn the wide-ranging interview from Morehead, Kentucky, Davis said she should keep her post, saying: "I'm good at my job."
"My constituents elected me, but the main authority that rules my life is the Lord," Davis told ABC, speaking alongside one of her lawyers.
She defended her actions and rejected criticism that she is a hypocrite and a homophobe for her actions and for citing her religious beliefs to deny marriages even as she has been married four times and had some children out of wedlock.
"I'm forgiven. Washed clean," she said.
Mat Staver, an attorney for Davis, has said she has made a good faith effort to comply with U.S. District Judge David Bunning's order.
Attorneys from the American Civil Liberties Union of Kentucky, in a federal court filing on Monday, said Bunning should order the licenses to be issued under the previous format and reissue those given under the altered one.
Despite Davis' comments, their legality of the marriage licenses issued without her consent has not been challenged in court.
It seems to me until the legality of the licenses is challenged, no one will know if she is still in contempt. If they are legal, I'm thinking the needs of the court are satisfied in spite of any hot air she might be blowing out of her ass. If they are legal, she becomes just a fart in the wind. If not, she will be in contempt, and in my mind it could justify an added penalty for her jerking the court around.
QuoteIn the wide-ranging interview from Morehead, Kentucky, Davis said she should keep her post, saying: "I'm good at my job."
I'm pretty sure that if you make national news because of your job and lots of people want you fired, then chances are, you're probably as good at your job as you think.
or this is another diversion like swine flu
I hope the rapture doesn't happen today - that is one snatch I have no interest in seeing. Eewww!
I thought that's already been settled: the judge said that Davis could be let free on condition that they don't interfere with the deputies' work, effectively giving them the authority to notarize marriages.
Hot diggity dog.. I was right! I still don't care anymore.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on September 22, 2015, 10:00:38 PM
Hot diggity dog.. I was right! I still don't care anymore.
You are a prophet!
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on September 22, 2015, 09:57:21 PM
I thought that's already been settled: the judge said that Davis could be let free on condition that they don't interfere with the deputies' work, effectively giving them the authority to notarize marriages.
I'm not sure if I have this right, but I got the impression that she changed the forms with the intention of making them invalid before she went to jail, thereby interfering with the deputies work. Since she has been released on certain conditions, I would have expected her to have made the necessary adjustments to correct that by now. But I haven't read any reports to that effect yet. Of course, if her changes didn't actually make the forms invalid as per her intentions, she wouldn't legally be in contempt, although her heart might be entirely in contempt, which probably doesn't mean anything from a legal perspective.
At any rate she is certainly dragging her feet. I have to wonder what kind of advice she is getting from her legal council. I'll bet she has good lawyers, the best money can buy. I think she's just holding out as long as she can. She says she's ready to go back to jail, so her demeanor must be interpreted as wanting to interfere as long as she can get away with it. Once she's back in jail, the state can get her released by removing her from office and appointing someone else to do the job. Her lawyers are no doubt months ahead of where the rest of us are, with a list of actions to take depending on what actions the various courts take. They probably have a long list of ways to spin whatever happens to make it look like she wins, too.
I'm fascinated by this. I know many others are sick of it, but this stuff always interests me, because I am so often surprised by court decisions, and I'm anticipating more surprises as this plays out.
Now she's blaming the Governor for all her legal problems
http://news.yahoo.com/kentucky-clerk-kim-davis-blames-governor-legal-woes-235504802.html
Quote from: CrucifyCindy on September 22, 2015, 01:38:48 PM
She doesn't need to be put in jail. What is needed is a court order to force the governor or the state legistlators to remove her from office due to incompetance. It is obvious she is not fit for office because she cannot fulfill her duties.
Sorry but that isn't the way it works. The courts have no power to force the legislature to do anything.
Right. She is an elected official and has to be impeached or voted out. Even the governor can't remove her without due process which involves the state legislature.
http://www.newsweek.com/why-kim-davis-cant-be-fired-marriage-licenses-368902
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on September 25, 2015, 11:28:11 AM
Sorry but that isn't the way it works. The courts have no power to force the legislature to do anything.
O rly? Sorry but it works that way...that's why we have something called an incompetency hearing.
Professional Obligation
Lawyers, doctors, teachers, and other persons who belong to a profession are bound either by professional codes of conduct or by contracts that contain standards of conduct. A professional person who fails to meet the duties required of that profession may be judged incompetent. Such
a ruling by a court, a professional disciplinary board, or an employer
may result in professional discipline, including loss of a license to practice, demotion, or termination of employment.http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Incompetency (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Incompetency)
O rly? She isn't a professional person, she is an elected official.
QuoteGetting rid of a county clerk isn't easy. Davis is an elected official, so she would have to be impeached by the state legislature. Not even the governor could fire Davis on his own.
"The future of the Rowan County Clerk is now in the hands of the courts. The legislature has placed the authority to issue marriage licenses squarely on county clerks by statute, and I have no legal authority to relieve her of her statutory duty by executive order or to remove her from office," Governor Steve Beshear explained. "The General Assembly will convene in four months and can make any statutory changes it deems necessary at that time. I see no need to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars of taxpayers’ money calling a special session of the General Assembly when 117 of 120 county clerks are doing their jobs."
Even if a special session were called, the assembly may not agree to impeach her.
You can't get rid of elected officials for incompetence. If that were true, the entire Republican party would be gone.
Quote from: CrucifyCindy on September 25, 2015, 01:20:54 PM
O rly? Sorry but it works that way...that's why we have something called an incompetency hearing.
Professional Obligation
Lawyers, doctors, teachers, and other persons who belong to a profession are bound either by professional codes of conduct or by contracts that contain standards of conduct. A professional person who fails to meet the duties required of that profession may be judged incompetent. Such a ruling by a court, a professional disciplinary board, or an employer may result in professional discipline, including loss of a license to practice, demotion, or termination of employment.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Incompetency (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Incompetency)
A. She is a county clerk not a professional such as a doctor or lawyer that can have their license pulled.
B. That's not what you said. You said, "
What is needed is a court order to force the governor or the state legistlators to remove her from office due to incompetance." There's this thing called separation of powers here in the good old US of A. The courts have no power to force either the legislature or the executive branch to do the thing you want them to do. Period.