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Humanities Section => Philosophy & Rhetoric General Discussion => Topic started by: mendacium remedium on March 11, 2013, 02:34:20 PM

Title: Is donating to charity truly selfless?
Post by: mendacium remedium on March 11, 2013, 02:34:20 PM
http://scientificphilosopher.wordpress. ... r-selfish/ (http://scientificphilosopher.wordpress.com/2013/03/11/donating-to-charity-selfless-or-selfish/)

My article/views. I'd like to see your responses.

Is donating to charity such a self-less act?

Quite often we see philanthropists donating to charity.  As I admire what these people do, I will not name them, nor is this article intended to  reprimand or lower the immense contribution of people who donate large sums of money for good causes.

However, when we see billionaires donating a million or two pounds, immediately we all say ' what a generous individual. After all, a million or two pounds, roughly three to four million dollars really can make a huge difference in the life of people.

But to that billionaire, is £1,000,000 from their 1,000,000,000 really all that much? A million pounds donated by someone who has exactly one billion is only 0.1% of their wealth. So to the normal individual, although this can seem like a tidy sum, imagine someone worth £100,000 donating £100. Would we jump and call such a person generous? They also donate 0.1% of their profits.

Does generosity mean how much one donates, rather than the proportion they actually donate? The answer to that really depends on the individual.

Religion and charity

If one believes that by giving charity, their sins are forgiven, or that they will get a reward from God, is giving charity in that regard truly self-less? At best, is it not a long-term investment?

For instance, if I give charity under the pretext I want my sins forgiven, I really am buying myself out of torture or punishment as a consequence of my sins, rather than helping others. Even if I give charity to help people but have this belief, are my actions truly self-less?

Does the atheist who donates to charity without a belief they will obtain a heavenly reward or that their monetary funds can be exchanged as a ransom for their punishment have nobler reason to donate to charity?

Public charitable donations

When celebrities and famous icons, or everyday citizens publically profess or donate to charity, is such an act truly selfless?

For instance, when popstars donate to charity, it comes as headline news. This in turn generates interest in the celebrity, wins them more fans, and probably increases the celebrities profitability and appeal. Would it be more noble for the celebrity to donate 'annonymously'? Or does the celebrity encourage others to donate by also donating publically?

In the Islamic religion, charity is considered to garner a greater significance when it is given in secret.

Does it even matter if something is self-less?

Perhaps it does not matter if there are other reasons to why one decides to donate. Perhaps having an element of self-lessens is the most important thing, and making a contribution proportionate to what you can do.

Just as we are on the topic of charity, you can donate something right now, but it won't be money, it will be time.

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Post by: Alaric I on March 11, 2013, 02:45:32 PM
It depends.  There are those that donate to a charity and do it for the right reasons. In TX where many wounded warriors go to be rehabilitated they have a few buildings used as housing for family members.  Denzel Washington bought one of these from his own pocket knowing all he got was the satisfaction of helping a couple hundred family members stay close to their soldier.  People who donate under some premise (like you said having their sins forgiven or using it for a tax break) aren't really being generous.  Why? Because they are geting something out of it.  Take the tax deduction route, esentially you are not giving the money away, you are giving the governments money away.  You are merely handing this charity a few hundred (or more in some cases) dollars and the government is paying you back.  

People that give to these organizations and are not taking any tax breaks and are doing it because it's the right thing to do are being generous.  When there are no strings attached and you know that money is gone and not coming back, this is generosity.
Title: Re: Is donating to charity truly selfless?
Post by: BarkAtTheMoon on March 11, 2013, 03:27:04 PM
When it comes to famous and rich people (and really, anyone else) doing charity, the ones that are doing it as a selfless act are the ones you don't hear about for the most part. They just do it without mugging for cameras or anything like that and go about their business, unless they're publicizing it to gain more visibility and donations to the cause.
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Post by: Plu on March 11, 2013, 03:30:14 PM
Pretty much the above. If the only thing ou get out of it is the satisfaction of having done a good deed, that's charity. If you're doing it to get something back, it's just an investment. A much better investment than most, but still an investment.
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Post by: Bibliofagus on March 11, 2013, 04:40:29 PM
I think it is selfless to debate the point that charity is selfless. Nobody gains whereas charity does have some positive effect.
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Post by: NitzWalsh on March 13, 2013, 03:39:53 AM
Religions that teach to give in secret are not being selfless either, they are being selfish... These individual religious nutters are trying to buy points with their deity or make themselves feel good.
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Post by: SvZurich on March 13, 2013, 11:23:31 AM
Well, studies have shown that when tax deductions are reduced or removed from donating to charity, donations from the wealthy sharply go down.

That tells me their donations are selfish.
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Post by: Mister Agenda on March 13, 2013, 12:24:07 PM
There is no such thing as a selfless act, nor should there be. Satisfaction, alleviation of guilt, pride, compassion, whatever the motivation is, if there are no material benefits, you're doing it for emotional benefits. What kind of moral inversion would it take for someone to truly give selflessly, not only with no thought of reward, but not even personal satisfaction or a fleeting warm fuzzy feeling or a sense of accomplishment in one more step of paying off your debt to society? If you give your life for someone else, it's because you value their life more than your own, or because you value being the kind of person to risk that more than you value being alive. I'm with Mr. Twain on this one.

It's no skin off my nose whether I would approve of the reasons you give, I'm just glad that you do.
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Post by: Youssuf Ramadan on March 13, 2013, 12:38:08 PM
Some do it for good reasons, some do it for selfish reasons.  Sometimes we've got to try and look past that and accept that something for charity is better than nothing.
Title: Re:
Post by: SilentFutility on March 13, 2013, 07:29:53 PM
Quote from: "SvZurich"Well, studies have shown that when tax deductions are reduced or removed from donating to charity, donations from the wealthy sharply go down.

That tells me their donations are selfish.
That tells you that the majority of their donations are selfish, if anything.
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Post by: Jmpty on March 13, 2013, 10:07:43 PM
I don't take tax crdits when I donate stuff, or money. If I give a guy on the street 10 bucks, it's because I feel empathy, or sympathy. That's it.
Title: Re:
Post by: Teaspoon Shallow on March 14, 2013, 12:53:59 AM
Quote from: "Alaric I".....Take the tax deduction route, essentially you are not giving the money away, you are giving the governments money away.  You are merely handing this charity a few hundred (or more in some cases) dollars and the government is paying you back.....

I am not sure how tax is calculated where you are but in Australia if you make a donation to a recognised cause (not just give uncle Larry $50 cause he's broke  :P ) your taxable income is reduced by that amount.  In no way, shape or form are we taxed at a rate of 100%. 50% for high tax brackets yes, but not 100%.  The lower the tax bracket, the less the rebate.
Title: Re:
Post by: NitzWalsh on March 14, 2013, 01:22:30 AM
Quote from: "Jmpty"I don't take tax crdits when I donate stuff, or money. If I give a guy on the street 10 bucks, it's because I feel empathy, or sympathy. That's it.

I don't give anything to the guy on the street because I know the guy on the street here and he just wants to buy meth.
Title: Re: Is donating to charity truly selfless?
Post by: leo on March 14, 2013, 10:44:49 AM
Another post for me !
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Post by: WitchSabrina on March 14, 2013, 10:57:06 AM
There is no such thing as a purely selfless act.  When we give to charity or help in a soup kitchen or a women's shelter we feel better about ourselves.  But whether someone feels good about themselves - or not - doesn't matter.  There are always people in need and always people who'll help with charity.  And if you're neither the needy nor the giver of time or money - that's ok, too.  If there was no need there'd be no need for charity and if Everyone sought to help - need would vanish. This isn't exactly the Borg, yanno.  Whatever role you play is totally fine.

cheers

(my two cents worth on charity - what drives it and who)
Title: Re: Is donating to charity truly selfless?
Post by: stromboli on March 14, 2013, 11:43:00 AM
Quote from: "leo"Another post for me !

And yet only a fish......... :roll:
Title: Re:
Post by: mendacium remedium on March 14, 2013, 01:15:55 PM
Quote from: "Mister Agenda"There is no such thing as a selfless act, nor should there be. Satisfaction, alleviation of guilt, pride, compassion, whatever the motivation is, if there are no material benefits, you're doing it for emotional benefits. What kind of moral inversion would it take for someone to truly give selflessly, not only with no thought of reward, but not even personal satisfaction or a fleeting warm fuzzy feeling or a sense of accomplishment in one more step of paying off your debt to society? If you give your life for someone else, it's because you value their life more than your own, or because you value being the kind of person to risk that more than you value being alive. I'm with Mr. Twain on this one.

It's no skin off my nose whether I would approve of the reasons you give, I'm just glad that you do.

Good over-all replies guys,

This post and those who posted along these lines particularly resonated with me. Any act you do had either a physical or emotional consequence, no matter how abstract, there is some benefit, whatever ' benefit ' even is.
Title: Re: Is donating to charity truly selfless?
Post by: leo on March 14, 2013, 04:08:08 PM
Quote from: "stromboli"
Quote from: "leo"Another post for me !

And yet only a fish......... :roll:
I will reach 10,000 posts very soon with the help of the Muslim dude .  :-D
Title: Re: Re:
Post by: NitzWalsh on March 15, 2013, 03:38:44 AM
Quote from: "mendacium remedium"
Quote from: "Mister Agenda"There is no such thing as a selfless act, nor should there be. Satisfaction, alleviation of guilt, pride, compassion, whatever the motivation is, if there are no material benefits, you're doing it for emotional benefits. What kind of moral inversion would it take for someone to truly give selflessly, not only with no thought of reward, but not even personal satisfaction or a fleeting warm fuzzy feeling or a sense of accomplishment in one more step of paying off your debt to society? If you give your life for someone else, it's because you value their life more than your own, or because you value being the kind of person to risk that more than you value being alive. I'm with Mr. Twain on this one.

It's no skin off my nose whether I would approve of the reasons you give, I'm just glad that you do.

Good over-all replies guys,

This post and those who posted along these lines particularly resonated with me. Any act you do had either a physical or emotional consequence, no matter how abstract, there is some benefit, whatever ' benefit ' even is.

So you are admitting that there are no selfless acts, even the acts of charity done in secret by muslims are selfish?
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Post by: Shiranu on March 15, 2013, 06:20:51 AM
We are social creatures and we are reward-actions creatures, I would be more surprised if we DIDN'T do good things for "selfish" reasons.

Though to me, selfish implies harming others (or putting yourself first) over getting a treat for doing something good, so I am not entirely sure I agree with that either.
Title: Re: Is donating to charity truly selfless?
Post by: leo on March 15, 2013, 09:45:22 AM
Is flushing the toilet truly selfless ?
Title: Re: Is donating to charity truly selfless?
Post by: Jason78 on March 15, 2013, 09:54:05 AM
Quote from: "leo"Is flushing the toilet truly selfless ?

Are we talking a quick courtesy flush here?  And how many people do you live with?

Have you recently had asparagus or a curry?
Title: Re: Is donating to charity truly selfless?
Post by: NitzWalsh on March 15, 2013, 03:34:38 PM
Quote from: "Jason78"
Quote from: "leo"Is flushing the toilet truly selfless ?

Are we talking a quick courtesy flush here?  And how many people do you live with?

Have you recently had asparagus or a curry?

Your own shit never smells as bad as other peoples, so it might actually be selfless to flush. Especially in a public washroom.
Title: Re: Is donating to charity truly selfless?
Post by: Zacky on June 25, 2013, 04:52:56 AM
Is it selfish to do something rather to make yourself feel better?

If yes, would it be considered "selfish" if I give a few bucks to a panhandler on the street merely to relieve my own distress upon seeing his predicament?"
Title: Re: Is donating to charity truly selfless?
Post by: Plu on June 25, 2013, 04:57:27 AM
Rebooting this discussion, it seems mostly that we must ask: what is "selfless"?, before we answer the original question.

Depending on what we consider a "selfless act", can we determine whether donating to charity can be it. And it'll probably vary from person to person.
Title: Re:
Post by: SGOS on June 25, 2013, 07:53:15 AM
Quote from: "Mister Agenda"There is no such thing as a selfless act, nor should there be. Satisfaction, alleviation of guilt, pride, compassion, whatever the motivation is, if there are no material benefits, you're doing it for emotional benefits.
+  Spot on.  There's payback in every act of charity, just as there's a payback in every act of miserly refusal to aid another person or group.  Only a computer program could disperse charitable donations without experiencing something.
Title: Re: Is donating to charity truly selfless?
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on June 25, 2013, 08:04:49 AM
Does it even matter if it's selfless or not? If I donated a million to X, assuming I had a billion to squander and the media made a big deal of it it's still a million to X media or not. If I give a few cigarettes to some schmoe here at the VOA and the media ignores it it's still a few cigarettes.
Of course I never help out a stranger here unless the TV crews are here to note how generous I am helping some guy out with bus fare.. Fair is fair...right?
Title: Re: Is donating to charity truly selfless?
Post by: SGOS on June 25, 2013, 08:40:15 AM
I would like to donate a million dollars to a Hall of Fame that pays homage to people who donate selflessly to charity.  They would call it the SGOS Hall of Fame of Charitable Contributions.  It would have a Bronze statue of me in the Great Hall.  The hall would be acoustically designed to amplify the echoing murmurs of visitors as they talk about me and read the various plaques listing some of my most humanitarian contributions and recalling my life of charitable anonymity.  Hall of Fame guides would explain to visitors why I decided to create the edifice as a way of encouraging others to give selflessly of themselves.  It would serve as a beacon of  selfless charity and set a benchmark toward which others could strive.
Title: Re: Is donating to charity truly selfless?
Post by: WitchSabrina on June 25, 2013, 11:43:43 AM
Quote from: "SGOS"I would like to donate a million dollars to a Hall of Fame that pays homage to people who donate selflessly to charity.  They would call it the SGOS Hall of Fame of Charitable Contributions.  It would have a Bronze statue of me in the Great Hall.  The hall would be acoustically designed to amplify the echoing murmurs of visitors as they talk about me and read the various plaques listing some of my most humanitarian contributions and recalling my life of charitable anonymity.  Hall of Fame guides would explain to visitors why I decided to create the edifice as a way of encouraging others to give selflessly of themselves.  It would serve as a beacon of  selfless charity and set a benchmark toward which others could strive.


I'm so inspired..........where do I send the money?
 :rollin:
Title: Re: Is donating to charity truly selfless?
Post by: SGOS on June 25, 2013, 11:52:36 AM
Quote from: "WitchSabrina"
Quote from: "SGOS"I would like to donate a million dollars to a Hall of Fame that pays homage to people who donate selflessly to charity.  They would call it the SGOS Hall of Fame of Charitable Contributions.  It would have a Bronze statue of me in the Great Hall.  The hall would be acoustically designed to amplify the echoing murmurs of visitors as they talk about me and read the various plaques listing some of my most humanitarian contributions and recalling my life of charitable anonymity.  Hall of Fame guides would explain to visitors why I decided to create the edifice as a way of encouraging others to give selflessly of themselves.  It would serve as a beacon of  selfless charity and set a benchmark toward which others could strive.


I'm so inspired..........where do I send the money?
 :rollin:
Send it to me directly.  You'll have a special room devoted to your selfless act, where people can admire your bust, which will be centrally located on a pedestal with a commemorative plaque.