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Science Section => Science General Discussion => Topic started by: Fidel_Castronaut on March 11, 2013, 10:40:10 AM

Title: Antibiotic resistance and our deportation to Victorian times
Post by: Fidel_Castronaut on March 11, 2013, 10:40:10 AM
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 28469.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/resistance-to-antibiotics-is-ticking-time-bomb--stark-warning-from-chief-medical-officer-dame-sally-davies-8528469.html)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21737844 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21737844)

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs194/en/ (http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs194/en/)

http://www.reactgroup.org/news/182/18.html (http://www.reactgroup.org/news/182/18.html)

http://antibiotic-action.com/2011/11/11 ... ng-street/ (http://antibiotic-action.com/2011/11/11/petition-presented-to-10-downing-street/)

Antibioitic resistance is becoming an increasingly worrying and damaging facet of contemporary drug use and availability. The UK media has been focusing on it leading up to the G8 summit, and the WHO has been calling on governments from all economic backgrounds to limit the amount available to people over the counter for general consumption due to the ever growing risk of strains evolving that are resistant to all know antibioitics.

At the current rate, it is estimated, within 20 years even the most common forms of bacteria such as ecoli and salmonella will have a multitude of strains that will be completely untreatable, meaning illnesses and operations that are perfectly common place today could become fatal (such as hip replacements or minor keyhole surgery).

My fiancé is actually a microbiologist in the field here in the UK, and it is desperately underfunded.

When people talk about real imminent threats to our way of life, I think this could accurately fit into that catagory. A big problem, as mentioned, is the availability of over the counter antibioitics throughout the world, notably in states like Saudi Arabia and India (but not exclusive), where people take them for illnesses that cannot be treated by them, or are using theme ineffectively and without proper prescription and oversight. Ask people whether they take antibioitics when they have the flu, and I've no doubt at least 50% would say 'yes' or think that's how antibioitics work.

Mass availability is causing mass resistance, and increasingly people are dying due to contracting bacteria that simply ignore all forms of treatment against them (for the technically minded, we're talking about a year on year increase in bacteria displaying gram-negative traits in new strains).

More worrying is the massive overuse of antibioitics in farm animals which also leads to resistance in bacteria, but arguably on an even larger scale.

(On a side note, people in the UK may even see my partner on tv today as various news networks are going into her lab to interview her supervisor at Birmingham Uni.)
Title: Re: Antibiotic resistance and our deportation to Victorian t
Post by: Agramon on March 11, 2013, 11:33:30 AM
Looks like I made a good choice getting into bacteriophage therapy!
Title:
Post by: NitzWalsh on March 11, 2013, 12:32:23 PM
If only those creationists were right, we wouldn't have to worry about bacteria evolving so much.
Title: Re:
Post by: Colanth on March 11, 2013, 10:06:56 PM
Quote from: "NitzWalsh"
If only those creationists were right, we wouldn't have to worry about bacteria evolving so much.
They're not evolving, they're still bacteria.  (And a fish laying an egg that hatched into a man would still just be an animal producing an animal.)
Title: Re: Antibiotic resistance and our deportation to Victorian t
Post by: Seabear on March 11, 2013, 10:29:40 PM
Hope ur kidding...
Title: Re: Re:
Post by: GurrenLagann on March 11, 2013, 11:01:24 PM
Quote from: "Colanth"
Quote from: "NitzWalsh"
If only those creationists were right, we wouldn't have to worry about bacteria evolving so much.
They're not evolving, they're still bacteria.  (And a fish laying an egg that hatched into a man would still just be an animal producing an animal.)

Edit: Looool. I took that seriously at first. xD Don't mind me.
Title: Re: Re:
Post by: NitzWalsh on March 12, 2013, 06:01:28 AM
Quote from: "GurrenLagann"
Quote from: "Colanth"
Quote from: "NitzWalsh"
If only those creationists were right, we wouldn't have to worry about bacteria evolving so much.
They're not evolving, they're still bacteria.  (And a fish laying an egg that hatched into a man would still just be an animal producing an animal.)

Edit: Looool. I took that seriously at first. xD Don't mind me.

Haha, yeah, I'm glad I'm still awake enough to realize Colanth was joking.
Title: Re: Antibiotic resistance and our deportation to Victorian t
Post by: SGOS on March 12, 2013, 06:47:27 AM
Quote from: "Fidel_Castronaut"
When people talk about real imminent threats to our way of life, I think this could accurately fit into that catagory. A big problem, as mentioned, is the availability of over the counter antibioitics throughout the world, notably in states like Saudi Arabia and India (but not exclusive), where people take them for illnesses that cannot be treated by them, or are using theme ineffectively and without proper prescription and oversight. Ask people whether they take antibioitics when they have the flu, and I've no doubt at least 50% would say 'yes' or think that's how antibioitics work.
Even in the US, just tell your doctor you are convinced that antibiotics will cure your cold, and you can get a prescription.  Doctors know better of course, but false beliefs about antibiotics are so widely held that doctors know they will lose the patronage of a large portion of the potential client base if they don't comply with such popular opinions.  Not all doctors, but finding the right one isn't much harder than shopping for your correct shoe size.
Title:
Post by: Icarus on March 12, 2013, 07:46:17 AM
When people start dying in droves she will get funding, but not until then.
Title:
Post by: The Skeletal Atheist on March 12, 2013, 02:49:25 PM
If we're getting back the fatality of diseases from Victorian times can we at least get back some of the more awesome and stupidly dangerous medical devices as well?
(http://http://www.bizarrebytes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Tonsil-Guillotine.png)
This nifty thing was used to take out tonsils.
Title: Re:
Post by: Fidel_Castronaut on March 12, 2013, 03:32:58 PM
Quote from: "drunkenshoe"
I have watched this on news. It's indeed bad.

And also it is always baffling to me to see people jumping on antibiotics when they get a runny nose for two days.

Lack of education/stupidity/mixture of both?
Quote from: "The Skeletal Atheist"
If we're getting back the fatality of diseases from Victorian times can we at least get back some of the more awesome and stupidly dangerous medical devices as well?
[ Image (http://http://www.bizarrebytes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Tonsil-Guillotine.png) ]
This nifty thing was used to take out tonsils.

lol
Title: Re: Antibiotic resistance and our deportation to Victorian t
Post by: Mermaid on March 12, 2013, 08:37:34 PM
Quote from: "Agramon"
Looks like I made a good choice getting into bacteriophage therapy!
Looks like.
Title: Re: Re:
Post by: Mermaid on March 12, 2013, 08:38:32 PM
Quote from: "Colanth"
Quote from: "NitzWalsh"
If only those creationists were right, we wouldn't have to worry about bacteria evolving so much.
They're not evolving, they're still bacteria.  (And a fish laying an egg that hatched into a man would still just be an animal producing an animal.)
um. What?
Title:
Post by: Mermaid on March 12, 2013, 08:39:27 PM
I gave blood today therefore I am stupid. That is my excuse and I am sticking to it.
Title: Re: Re:
Post by: Colanth on March 12, 2013, 09:39:42 PM
Quote from: "Mermaid"
Quote from: "Colanth"
Quote from: "NitzWalsh"
If only those creationists were right, we wouldn't have to worry about bacteria evolving so much.
They're not evolving, they're still bacteria.  (And a fish laying an egg that hatched into a man would still just be an animal producing an animal.)
um. What?
You've never read the Luddite view of evolution?  A bacterium that dies on contact with penicillin changing into one that consumes penicillin is just a bacterium changing its food, it's not evolution.  They're not aware that the claddistic level of "bacteria" is the same as the claddistic level of "animal".
Title: Re:
Post by: antediluvian on March 12, 2013, 09:57:13 PM
Quote from: "The Skeletal Atheist"
If we're getting back the fatality of diseases from Victorian times can we at least get back some of the more awesome and stupidly dangerous medical devices as well?
[ Image (http://http://www.bizarrebytes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Tonsil-Guillotine.png) ]
This nifty thing was used to take out tonsils.
No way!
That's the thing that was used on me last week for my pap smear!
Title:
Post by: mendacium remedium on March 14, 2013, 01:30:33 PM
Antibiotic resistance is a HUGE problem. I see this rippling onto surgery as well, infection control, and so many other things!

People dropped like flies because of the non-existent weapon against them before anti-biotics.

We need a more regulated, more thorough way to give out anti-biotics: Get people to have to read a form and be explained the importance of finishing the dose. Make sure they have the competence to respond and reply and tell the doctor they understand this crucial piece of information.

 On top, the public need to really be informed on a global scale.

When we think of 'anti-biotics' we just take it for granted and say 'oh the researchers will make more'.

We are blessed to live in the 21st century. It would be a heartbreak to be taken back into the victorian era.
Title: Re:
Post by: Jason78 on March 14, 2013, 01:51:37 PM
Quote from: "mendacium remedium"
Antibiotic resistance is a HUGE problem. I see this rippling onto surgery as well, infection control, and so many other things!

People dropped like flies because of the non-existent weapon against them before anti-biotics.

We need a more regulated, more thorough way to give out anti-biotics: Get people to have to read a form and be explained the importance of finishing the dose. Make sure they have the competence to respond and reply and tell the doctor they understand this crucial piece of information.

 On top, the public need to really be informed on a global scale.

When we think of 'anti-biotics' we just take it for granted and say 'oh the researchers will make more'.

We are blessed to live in the 21st century. It would be a heartbreak to be taken back into the victorian era.

That's rather close minded thinking.  I would have thought that bacteriophages are the way to go.

Edit:  Btw MR, are you actually going to address any of the posts in any of the threads you've started?
Title: Re:
Post by: Colanth on March 14, 2013, 07:13:12 PM
Quote from: "mendacium remedium"
We need a more regulated, more thorough way to give out anti-biotics: Get people to have to read a form and be explained the importance of finishing the dose. Make sure they have the competence to respond and reply and tell the doctor they understand this crucial piece of information.
Back when penicillin was first used (I was among the first civilians it was used on, in 1944), patients were advised to a) take the entire course even if the symptoms went away and b) to not use it for anything other than the illness it was prescribed for.  I'd hazard a guess that patients were stopping it as soon as the symptoms eased and saving the rest to self-medicate other illnesses long before the end of 1944.

A form?  Even a prison sentence wouldn't stop morons from "knowing" better than scientists.  The ideal situation is that antibiotics be given only to hospital patients while they're in the hospital - but that's not a practical solution.
Title:
Post by: PopeyesPappy on March 15, 2013, 12:37:45 AM
On a related note the partner of one of my younger cousins is dying in hospital in Atlanta tonight. The cause? Knee surgery back in October. She got an infection, and they just haven’t been able to get rid of it. She has been in the hospital since just after Christmas slowly getting worse and worse.
Title: Re: Antibiotic resistance and our deportation to Victorian t
Post by: PopeyesPappy on March 16, 2013, 11:57:20 PM
I just got the word that Erica passed away a couple of hours ago. Antibiotic resistant bacteria is already killing people...
Title: Re: Antibiotic resistance and our deportation to Victorian t
Post by: Fidel_Castronaut on March 17, 2013, 05:24:03 AM
Quote from: "PopeyesPappy"
I just got the word that Erica passed away a couple of hours ago. Antibiotic resistant bacteria is already killing people...

Im sorry to hear that Popeyes. If you know, what bacterial infection was it?

In the UK there were over 5000 deaths last year alone from normally preventable infections, and the rate is rising.
Title:
Post by: Plu on March 17, 2013, 05:46:43 AM
My condoleances :(

I've always taken care to use full antibiotics cures the few times I received them, but I do realise that most people are ignorant dumbasses, so a few people doing it right isn't going to help. Lets hope those people who use the half cures are the first to suffer the new resistant bacteria, at least we'll get a bit of karma.
Title: Re:
Post by: Fidel_Castronaut on March 17, 2013, 05:59:25 AM
Quote from: "Plu"
My condoleances :(

I've always taken care to use full antibiotics cures the few times I received them, but I do realise that most people are ignorant dumbasses, so a few people doing it right isn't going to help. Lets hope those people who use the half cures are the first to suffer the new resistant bacteria, at least we'll get a bit of karma.

Exactly. Just one person not doing it right or using them for infections they will be utterly ineffective against ruins it for everyone else, similar to viral vaccinations.

Unfortunately, one person getting a gram negative bacterial infection increases the likelihood that those around them will also get it, and so on.

Humans can be so fucking stupid.
Title: Re: Antibiotic resistance and our deportation to Victorian t
Post by: PopeyesPappy on March 17, 2013, 11:23:06 AM
Quote from: "Fidel_Castronaut"
Quote from: "PopeyesPappy"
I just got the word that Erica passed away a couple of hours ago. Antibiotic resistant bacteria is already killing people...

Im sorry to hear that Popeyes. If you know, what bacterial infection was it?

In the UK there were over 5000 deaths last year alone from normally preventable infections, and the rate is rising.
It was a methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) she contracted as a result of the surgery. 19,000 people died last year of complications due to MRSA infections.
Title:
Post by: Mermaid on March 17, 2013, 11:52:51 AM
So sorry to hear this, what a horrible tragedy.
MRSA is not just in hospitals anymore, it's in the community-schools, public pools, etc.

Bacteriophage, molecular research, delivery systems and formulations, new MOA's for antimicrobials--we need ALL of it.