Not only defying the Logan Act, but also displaying ignorance of international law. (http://'http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/3/9/gop-senators-warning-over-us-iran-nuclear-negotiations.html')
QuoteForty-seven Republican senators warned Monday that any nuclear agreement being negotiated between Iran and world powers (http://'http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/3/2/five-misconceptions-about-iran-nuclear-talks.html') could be overturned if their party wins the White House in 2016.
In an open letter addressed to Iranian leaders, Sen. Tom Cotton, R-Ark., and 46 other Republicans stated that, absent congressional approval, the proposed deal would be merely an agreement with President Barack Obama (http://'http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/2/13/iranian-leader-ayatollah-khamenei-sent-obama-secret-letter.html') â€" and could be reversed by his successor.
"The next president could revoke such an executive agreement with the stroke of a pen," they wrote, "and future Congresses could modify the terms of the agreement at any time."
That may be a simplification, since the agreement to limit Iran's nuclear work would be an international one, concluded not only with the U.S. but also with Britain, France, Germany, Russia and China. If the next U.S. president or Congress moved to reverse or revoke such an agreement, particularly if other nations judged Iran to be in compliance, such a move would put Washington at odds with the international consensus on which the current sanctions against Iran are based.
The White House responded by accusing the Republicans of conspiring with Iranians oppose the talks.
“I think it’s somewhat ironic to see some members of Congress wanting to make common cause with the hard-liners in Iran,†President Obama said a few hours after the letter was made public. “It’s an unusual coalition.â€
Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammed Javad Zarif responded via state media, dismissing the letter as a "propaganda ploy" and noting that many international deals are "mere executive agreements." He suggested the senators were undermining not only the propective deal with Iran but also other international deals as well.
Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., on Monday railed against Republicans for attempting “to blow up a major effort by our country and the world powers to negotiate a peaceful resolution to the Iranian nuclear program.â€
“This is a highly inappropriate and unprecedented incursion into the president’s prerogative to conduct foreign affairs and is not befitting this chamber,†she said in a statement. “This letter only serves one purposeâ€"to destroy an ongoing negotiation to reach a diplomatic agreement in its closing days.â€
The GOP-led Congress has been campaigning against the proposed nuclear agreement, most visibly by inviting Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to address a joint meeting of the House and Senate (http://'http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/2/26/netanyahu-speech-of-his-life-faces-growing-pushback.html'), where he denounced the deal.
Republicans and some Democrats want Congress to vote on any agreement. The pact that negotiators from six world powers and Iran are working on does not require congressional approval because it is not a treaty, which would require a two-thirds majority Senate vote to be ratified. Obama is expected to use executive power to relax some sanctions against Iran in line with the requirements of the deal.
The U.S. and the other world powers are seeking an agreement that strengthens safeguards against Iran’s repurposing of civilian nuclear infrastructure to pursue nuclear weapons, in exchange for lifting sanctions. Iran insists its nuclear work is strictly for peaceful purposes, and negotiators are asking Tehran to accept greater transparency and verification that it is abiding by such safeguards.
The next negotiations are scheduled for March 15, and wide gaps remain between the two sides (http://'http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/1/16/us-iran-obstacles.html'). The sides had set a deadline for a political agreement by the end of March, with a full technical agreement to follow.
Actively goading another nation into hostile action and potentially putting American lives at risk is treason, plain and simple. These senators should be arrested and tried.
It's like someone activated the USA self destruct mechanism, and the count down is running. Does anyone know how to turn the damn thing off?
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on March 10, 2015, 03:06:19 PM
Actively goading another nation into hostile action and potentially putting American lives at risk is treason, plain and simple. These senators should be arrested and tried.
They should be, but they won't.
As amusing as it would be to see half of the Senate put in jail.
Quote from: Valigarmander on March 10, 2015, 03:34:34 PM
They should be, but they won't.
As amusing as it would be to see half of the Senate put in jail.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/file-charges-against-47-us-senators-violation-logan-act-attempting-undermine-nuclear-agreement/NKQnpJS9
We can try.
Quote from: SGOS on March 10, 2015, 03:13:59 PM
It's like someone activated the USA self destruct mechanism, and the count down is running. Does anyone know how to turn the damn thing off?
I think the USA died on December 23, 2000, when the SCOTUS appointed the president, completely throwing out the constitution.
The land and people are still here, but there is no more USA - it's gone.
I wonder if it's possible to hold an entire congressional recall election...not that I have one iota of faith it'll happen, but is it possible?
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on March 10, 2015, 07:05:14 PM
I wonder if it's possible to hold an entire congressional recall election...not that I have one iota of faith it'll happen, but is it possible?
We could replace Congress with a flock of geese.
Quote from: SGOS on March 10, 2015, 07:17:39 PM
We could replace Congress with a flock of geese.
They'd produce nothing but watery white feces and it'd still be better than what we have right now.
There are other legal minds, not necessarily pubs that have a rather even take on it:
http://www.lawfareblog.com/2015/03/logan-act/ (http://www.lawfareblog.com/2015/03/logan-act/)
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on March 10, 2015, 03:06:19 PM
Actively goading another nation into hostile action and potentially putting American lives at risk is treason, plain and simple. These senators should be arrested and tried.
It has always been US policy to provoke the other side into shooting first so that we can claim it was self defense when we finally get our war of choice.
Look back at the many wars the US has fought. How many of them come down to "he started it when he hit back."
And again, please imagine the railing, ranting, howling, and probably even death threats had a group of Democratic senators pulled something like this on Dumbya.
Buncha fucking ignorant hypocrites.
Republicans are the scum of the earth. They are unfit to govern, and should be expelled from office.
Hey, none of this matters because according to John McCain there was an impending snow storm about to hit DC and besides.. BENGHAZI! Remember Hilary and the 'missing emails'?
http://m.dailykos.com/stories/1370370
QuoteTaking his role as a senior statesman very seriously, Sen. John McCain (Still Bitter-AZ), seems to have taken a leading role in defending the letter that he and 46 fellow Republican senators sent to Iran, telling them not to trust America. First McCain suggested that sure, maybe the letter wasn't the greatest idea ever, but really, it was all President Obama's fault, so there. And now, with Republican senators being "caught off guard by the backlash to the letter," McCain has trotted out a new excuse (although it's probably still mostly Obama's fault):
"It was kind of a very rapid process. Everybody was looking forward to getting out of town because of the snowstorm," McCain said. "I think we probably should have had more discussion about it, given the blowback that there is."
Of course international diplomacy should always take a backseat to snow..
Yes. Let's tell people that if we make an agreement with them, we'll just turn around and do whatever anyway. That's a great way to build trust.
I'm willing to bet if democrats did this, there would be a ton of cries for calling up a firing squad.
Quote from: kilodelta on March 12, 2015, 03:11:41 PM
Yes. Let's tell people that if we make an agreement with them, we'll just turn around and do whatever anyway. That's a great way to build trust.
about a million indians rolled over in their graves..at least the ones we haven't scattered about. But yeah, our gov'ment, trust is key with them rats.
Quote from: kilodelta on March 12, 2015, 03:11:41 PM
Yes. Let's tell people that if we make an agreement with them, we'll just turn around and do whatever anyway. That's a great way to build trust.
I'm willing to bet if democrats did this, there would be a ton of cries for calling up a firing squad.
Oh, they don't need a crime for that. One teabagger has essentially called for members of the Congressional Black Caucus to be lynched in front of the Capitol (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/radio-host-black-lawmakers-should-be-hanging-from-a-noose-for-boycotting-netanyahus-speech/) for not attending Nutty Yahoo... er, sorry, Netanyahu's campaign event... er, sorry, invited speech to the joint assembly.
Quote from: kilodelta on March 12, 2015, 03:11:41 PM
Yes. Let's tell people that if we make an agreement with them, we'll just turn around and do whatever anyway. That's a great way to build trust.
I'm willing to bet if democrats did this, there would be a ton of cries for calling up a firing squad.
Democrats would have been called 'unpatriotic' because the rube chicken hawks would play up their credentials of always starting wars that they can't finish so IF a rube is elected to the presidency you can count on war and worse, the draft because enlistment is way the hell down so poor people's kids will get shipped off to fight and the rubes can sit back as always and deny any culpability and blame it all on Obama for not getting the agreement with Iran..
To say they screwed the pooch this time would be tantamount to saying that the Pacific ocean is moist..
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on March 12, 2015, 08:22:30 PM
To say they screwed the pooch this time would be tantamount to saying that the Pacific ocean is moist..
It's hard to believe anyone but a crazy person wouldn't hold this against the GOP in the next election. But I'm always dumbfounded at the ridiculous things they do that their constituents defend. But the game (and it is a game) is not to do anything constructive. The whole point is to monkeywrench anything Obama does. If it is contrary to the interests of the United States, it's fine if it causes Obama to fail. Rush Limbaugh outlined this strategy 7 years ago, and the GOP has been doing their best to make Rush's strategy work. They don't need to gain the favor of Democratic voters who would never vote for them anyway. They just want to fuck things up.
I'm not sure how this strategy turns out to be a win, but I'm thinking it will. Republicans have a lot of staying power, and as bad as they are, many vote for them as the lesser of evils. They just have to make sure Obama fails at most everything, probably so voters don't see him (and by extension, Democrats in Congress) as competent.
Jon Stewart comments on this issue. (http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/ial564/under-miner)
It gets very good at the 4 minute mark, and then really very good at the 4:45 mark.
Also, why is no one commenting on the fact that nearly half the upper house of Congress just sent a letter to a foreign nation saying, "Yeah, we're America, the way we work is that our word isn't worth shit."?