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Science Section => Science General Discussion => Biology, Psychology & Medicine => Topic started by: SGOS on February 17, 2015, 11:28:17 AM

Title: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: SGOS on February 17, 2015, 11:28:17 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/katie-couric-little-pink-pill-and-the-drugs-resubmission-for-fda-approval-031600521.html

Some women have low sex drive.  Some women have none at all.  OK, not too much reason to doubt that.  Now there is a pill that according to the pharmaceutical companies, affects areas of women's brains that stimulate sexual desire.  But the FDA has already turned it down once, saying that it has no effect, and has harmful side effects.  But according to the media, enough women suffering from hypoactive sexual desire disorder (a diagnosis started by pharmaceutical companies but recently taken off the list of medical disorders recognized by the AMA) are clamoring for the pill, and the FDA will consider it again.

Surrounding the scientific body of current knowledge, there is a whole lot of non-scientific political debate taking place.  Much of it seems suspect on the surface, but then the science may not be all that conclusive, either (Keep in mind it's a government agency in charge).  Some activists for the drug are claiming the FDA is being sexist, by not allowing the drug.  The FDA is saying, "No, we can't find any data showing it works and it might be harmful."

There are a lot of interesting angles being presented.  Many might deserve skepticism.  Some may be propaganda from drug companies.  Some may deserve more consideration.  I found it an interesting debate.  I have no idea if the pill works, or if one could be developed.  But it's interesting.
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: dtq123 on February 17, 2015, 12:13:58 PM
Don't give it to the elderly, please!

:oak:
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: SGOS on February 17, 2015, 12:19:32 PM
Quote from: dtq123 on February 17, 2015, 12:13:58 PM
Don't give it to the elderly, please!
:oak:
It might be a big item in frat houses.
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: Aroura33 on February 17, 2015, 02:00:28 PM
I'm with the FDA and the docs on this. Low Desire in women is NOT THE SAME as ED in men. There ARE actual sexual dysfunctions in women, but low desire is usually a side effect of something else.  If you are overworked, or just had a baby, or fighting with your partner, or taking a SSRI (which like 1/3 of women are nowadays), then those things are causing the low desire.

I suffered from it for a year or more after having my daughter, and I'm guessing that was my body's natural way of telling me to NOT have another baby for a little while.  My brain doesn't know I had my tubes tied.  But I still feel that the lower se drive during that period was normal.

When I get depressed or stressed out, my sex drive can drop to 0% and stay there for a long time.  When it started hurting my relationship, instead of taking a pill, I use "natural" treatments, like taking a relaxing bath to unwind the stress, snuggling with my hubby, watching porn that appeals to me, and talking thorugh any issues I'm having with hubby.  Usually some combination of thse things works.

Now that I'm 40, its a LOT more work to get turned on. Sometimes it doesn't kick in until, well, actual stimulation is happening.  I know this about myself, so

Also, a glass of wine or a little hit of weed can really improve my libido.  I

And if the FDA and doctors say this particular pill doesn't work AND it has terrible side effects....then freaking listen!  People need to stop taking a pill for everything.  Sometimes, things take time and work.
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: aitm on February 17, 2015, 02:25:49 PM
Seriously my wife needs this....seriously. Ima go pray to ricky martin for it to happen.
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: stromboli on February 17, 2015, 03:38:54 PM
Quote from: aitm on February 17, 2015, 02:25:49 PM
Seriously my wife needs this....seriously. Ima go pray to ricky martin for it to happen.

So happy to know we've progressed from "slip em' the mickey" to animal tranquilizers to, uh, this. Anybody remember Spanish Fly?
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: SGOS on February 17, 2015, 03:56:19 PM
Quote from: stromboli on February 17, 2015, 03:38:54 PM
So happy to know we've progressed from "slip em' the mickey" to animal tranquilizers to, uh, this. Anybody remember Spanish Fly?
There's been a lot of mythical treatments and magical substances that were supposed to get women to want to have sex, so I'm skeptical about this one.  Yet 15 years ago, who would have thought there would be a pill to give guys a boner?  And 45 years ago, who would have believed women wanted to have sex to begin with?  That was before birth control pills, so I guess they had good reason for caution.   So who knows?  Better living through Bayer might be right around the corner.
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: Jason78 on February 18, 2015, 02:03:12 PM
Is the female sex drive really something that needs to be fixed?

Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: Solitary on February 19, 2015, 05:26:18 PM
I get a kick out of psychologists and psychiatrists. They can't even say what is normal, yet they know what isn't. There is a movie I recently saw where a girl is trying to get off with a shower spray and couldn't until she was told to think of Farah Faucet. How many Catholic girls, or prudish religious teachings, and society say they are whores or sluts and can't enjoy sex because it is instilled in their heads by Puritans passed down by generation to generation it is dirty or a sin unless they are married and can get pregnant, and if they enjoy it they feel guilty? Fuck all the uptight misogynists, including women, that think women shouldn't enjoy sex like men do from antiquated religious bull shit. Did any of these idiots realized most woman can not get off unless their clitoris is stimulated. The lesbians know this! Most men are really stupid when it comes to woman. Solitary 
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: dtq123 on February 19, 2015, 11:04:46 PM
Quote from: Solitary on February 19, 2015, 05:26:18 PM
Most men are really stupid when it comes to woman. Solitary
I agree, but be careful of old women chasing after you. I prefer teens, they be so young. :wink2:
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: stromboli on February 19, 2015, 11:41:39 PM
Yeah, feed some of that to a Nymphomaniac and send her into a veteran's retirement home. Could be fun.
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: Solitary on February 23, 2015, 04:22:07 PM
Quote from: dtq123 on February 17, 2015, 12:13:58 PM
Don't give it to the elderly, please!

:oak:
Quote from: dtq123 on February 17, 2015, 12:13:58 PM
Don't give it to the elderly, please!

:oak:
You are heading in that direction faster than you think! He! He!
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: Desdinova on February 23, 2015, 04:35:21 PM
Quote from: dtq123 on February 19, 2015, 11:04:46 PM
I agree, but be careful of old women chasing after you. I prefer teens, they be so young. :wink2:

The great thing about growing old is that the spectrum of what you would fuck expands tremendously.  Trust me.  :winkle:
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: Aletheia on February 23, 2015, 05:50:37 PM
Hm... guess I don't fit the stereotypical woman. My sex drive is about on par with men. If I could, I'd have sex at least once a day, preferably before I left for work or right before I go to sleep. SSRI's have little effect on my libido - about the most they do is drop it down to wanting sex about 3 or 4 times a week.

However, one does have to take into account that the average woman's libido will have been adjusted by evolution. A stressed woman in prehistoric times may have been stressed out due to life-threatening situations, which pretty much meant that it was not a good time to have children. Furthermore, if their partner is stressed or not acting particularly friendly or cooperative, then the libido could be affected since the mind could affect the body as though the stressful situation was possibly life-threatening. We mustn't forget that women are the ones who carry the offspring to term. For the body to make a 9 month commitment and be physically vulnerable, the woman needs to be in a favourable environment. Continuous or extreme stress are the only indicators the body has to go by, and stress of modern day are indistinguishable from the stress of prehistoric times. 

Women's libidos are probably working as in accordance with evolution. Is a pill necessary or would it be better long-term to find ways to reduce the stress?
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: dtq123 on February 23, 2015, 05:56:53 PM
Can I come over?  :eyes:

Seriously though, you seem right on the evolutionary side of low libido in women.
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: aitm on February 23, 2015, 06:03:50 PM
Quote from: dtq123 on February 23, 2015, 05:56:53 PM
Can I come over?  :eyes:

Seriously though, you seem right on the evolutionary side of low libido in women.

Low libido is once a day? Criminy, my wife could care less is she ever has sex again, and has pretty much been uninterested for the last 10. Her sister is pretty much the same way. My "bar wife" on the other hand is still single at mid 50ish and would probably fuck every day if she could find a guy she liked. You may find generalizations can be killers in a bar discussion.
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: Aletheia on February 23, 2015, 08:01:19 PM
Quote from: dtq123 on February 23, 2015, 05:56:53 PM
Can I come over?  :eyes:

Seriously though, you seem right on the evolutionary side of low libido in women.

Meh... to each their own. Although, sex for me ranges from 10 minutes if I'm short on time to about 3-5 hours if time is not an issue.

Might be a good idea to check the surveys on the frequency and desire for sex among women. I'd be happy with sex once or more a day, I think about sex every few minutes, more so when college girls are jogging in those skimpy outfits. I tend to be pretty visual. Although, I wonder if the libidos of bisexual women differs from heterosexual women.
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: stromboli on February 23, 2015, 11:18:31 PM
My wife, even with MS, still enjoys it as often as we have it. Sex between us has always been good and plentiful, so I can't say anything negative about it. My sexual adventures as a single man were few and far between, so I'm certainly no expert.
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: kilodelta on February 24, 2015, 03:51:59 PM
Quote from: aitm on February 23, 2015, 06:03:50 PM
Low libido is once a day? Criminy, my wife could care less is she ever has sex again, and has pretty much been uninterested for the last 10. Her sister is pretty much the same way. My "bar wife" on the other hand is still single at mid 50ish and would probably fuck every day if she could find a guy she liked. You may find generalizations can be killers in a bar discussion.

Shit... I have to schedule it. Even then it ends up being cancelled more often than not. I would be in full support of once a day. But, once every several weeks to months is what actually happens.
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: Jason78 on February 24, 2015, 04:08:14 PM
Quote from: Aletheia on February 23, 2015, 05:50:37 PM
If I could, I'd have sex at least once a day, preferably before I left for work or right before I go to sleep.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that scientists have shown that it helps you sleep better.
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: Aletheia on February 24, 2015, 09:46:00 PM
Quote from: Jason78 on February 24, 2015, 04:08:14 PM
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that scientists have shown that it helps you sleep better.

It does. You're physically exhausted and the endorphins are high, so you have a general sense of well being.

Plus there's the intimacy which is renewed with your partner.

I don't view sex as a bargaining chip. Even if we're angry with one another, if we both want sex, then we go with it. Sex should be spontaneous and integrated as the "spice of life" in a relationship. I considered it foolish to make demands of a person and withhold sex if they don't do what I want. You're guaranteed to chase a person away - either through affairs or they may end the relationship formally. You place a premium on sex and treat is as a currency. Once you've created a "market" then it becomes plausible for your lover to want to "shop" elsewhere for cheaper "rates." Furthermore, this method works two ways. Your lover may withhold sex and turn the tables on you (quite effective if you have a high libido too).

Sex is an expressive, spontaneous, and pleasurable act - not a form of currency.

Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: SGOS on February 25, 2015, 07:14:13 AM
Quote from: Aletheia on February 24, 2015, 09:46:00 PM
Sex is an expressive, spontaneous, and pleasurable act - not a form of currency.

That's a very mature attitude.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: Mermaid on February 25, 2015, 08:03:57 AM
All sexual politics aside, if the FDA says it's not significantly effective and has safety issues, it doesn't belong on the market. Period. That's their job and why they exist. I keep hearing stories about the FDA being in bed with pharmaceutical companies and push unsafe and/or ineffective drugs to the market because they are paid to do so. Every new drug has a website dedicated to bitching about how terrible it is, how the drug killed their dog, or ruined their life and how evil the FDA and Big Pharma are. Now here is an example of the FDA not approving something and people are crying that it's sexist. Seriously? Which way do the people want it?

Somewhere in the middle lies the actual REALITY of how pharmaceuticals come to be. I wish people would do a little more thinking about this and a little less believing whatever any swinging dick online writes about it.

It would be a useful pharmaceutical tool for a lot of women. But if it isn't safe and effective, there's nothing useful about it. If there are targets to be researched, someone is likely to come up with another chemical entity that works and is safe.
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: Mermaid on February 25, 2015, 08:05:56 AM
Quote from: Jason78 on February 18, 2015, 02:03:12 PM
Is the female sex drive really something that needs to be fixed?


If it's a problem to the woman in question, sure. Why not?
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: SGOS on February 25, 2015, 09:31:35 AM
Quote from: Mermaid on February 25, 2015, 08:03:57 AM
All sexual politics aside, if the FDA says it's not significantly effective and has safety issues, it doesn't belong on the market. Period.
I mostly agree, but it's hard to separate "political" from government.  The government is political.  Courts and agencies included, although those are not as wildly political as our representatives in Congress.  And the FDA usually tries to err on the side of caution, but in this case, there are strong opposing political forces from the public at large.  I see no reason to believe the FDA is sexist.  That seems like name calling to put the FDA on the defensive.   If anything I would expect the FDA to bend a bit to the current political forces.  While I'm always skeptical of government, I'm even more skeptical about the public, which can manipulated by various emotional agendas and special interests.

In this case, I tend to side with the FDA's current position, but I can't sort out all the information from the misinformation, either.  I am sympathetic to women who would like access to a sexually stimulating chemical, and like you pointed out, there may be something down the road with less serious side effects.  But I don't think the FDA is sexist.  What purpose would they have in denying women more sexual satisfaction?  While this isn't exactly Denmark, we aren't Egypt or Afghanistan.
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: Aletheia on March 03, 2015, 06:15:09 PM
If the medication is ineffective and has severe side effects, then it doesn't get approved. The gender of the intended recipient of these drugs is irrelevant. It's the FDA's job to prevent medications like this from being used by the public where severe harm or death can happen - especially when the drug does next to nothing.

Women will simply have to wait for the next medication that shows much better promise. Nothing sexist about it - just FDA standard procedure.
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: Deidre32 on March 03, 2015, 06:45:15 PM
Sometimes, I wonder if it's just a matter of getting a lover that is more compatible, than taking a potentially harmful pill.
I'm shallow. ^_^
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: Deidre32 on March 03, 2015, 06:46:18 PM
Quote from: aitm on February 23, 2015, 06:03:50 PM
Low libido is once a day? Criminy, my wife could care less is she ever has sex again, and has pretty much been uninterested for the last 10. Her sister is pretty much the same way. My "bar wife" on the other hand is still single at mid 50ish and would probably fuck every day if she could find a guy she liked. You may find generalizations can be killers in a bar discussion.
what exactly is a 'bar wife?' lol :=P
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: aitm on March 03, 2015, 07:04:39 PM
Quote from: Aletheia on February 24, 2015, 09:46:00 PM
Sex is an expressive, spontaneous, and pleasurable act - not a form of currency.


Sorry, but that really is an opinion. Many of us know differently
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: aitm on March 03, 2015, 07:08:01 PM
Quote from: Deidre32 on March 03, 2015, 06:46:18 PM
what exactly is a 'bar wife?' lol :=P
Ha.
A certain lady, who is also a member here, introduced me to my wife. She and I are as close as possible without the deed. We each know our secrets, our lies, our "indiscretions", should either of us get pissed off enough we would have to kill the other for fear of the knowledge they know. However, we remain close and every Wednesday and sometimes Friday we gather together with others at a local pub to visit and bullshit. I keep the weirdoes from her and the bitch cock blocks me from some cuties…..bitch.
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: Aletheia on March 03, 2015, 07:58:13 PM
Quote from: aitm on March 03, 2015, 07:04:39 PM
Sorry, but that really is an opinion. Many of us know differently

My condolences that your relationship requires sex to be a form of currency. I was in a relationship with someone who thought the same way, they were very rarely ever happy even though they were the ones imposing this "rule" and not me. Sexual compatibility is something else that needs to be taken into consideration along with how the other person views sex.
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: Deidre32 on March 03, 2015, 08:22:33 PM
The qualm I have with medications such as this is...does it mask a deeper problem, physically? Often, low libido can be corrected with exercise, proper dietary changes. Not saying that is always the case, but I'm just not a fan of racing to the doc to get the latest pill in order to alleviate this pain or ache, or help with this or that 'problem.'

Our society as a whole (in the US anyway) has major health problems that I believe contribute to a lot of sexual issues, from a physical standpoint.
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: aitm on March 03, 2015, 09:25:53 PM
Quote from: Aletheia on March 03, 2015, 07:58:13 PM
My condolences that your relationship requires sex to be a form of currency. I was in a relationship with someone who thought the same way, they were very rarely ever happy even though they were the ones imposing this "rule" and not me. Sexual compatibility is something else that needs to be taken into consideration along with how the other person views sex.
oh dear, this has absolutely nothing to do with my relationship. You think that all sex is "something special". Good for you…….
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: aitm on March 03, 2015, 09:33:39 PM
Quote from: Deidre32 on March 03, 2015, 08:22:33 PM
The qualm I have with medications such as this is...does it mask a deeper problem, physically? Often, low libido can be corrected with exercise, proper dietary changes. Not saying that is always the case, but I'm just not a fan of racing to the doc to get the latest pill in order to alleviate this pain or ache, or help with this or that 'problem.'

Our society as a whole (in the US anyway) has major health problems that I believe contribute to a lot of sexual issues, from a physical standpoint.
I often wonder the same thing. In my case, my wonderful beautiful sexy wife just went….meh…a few shorts months after the kid was born…and now simply doesn't care enough to care enough. A rather very hard and difficult blow to the ego that not much can cure. She has given her okay for me to pursue whatever I should desire….like that is easy after 25 years of marriage, and at my age, not so easy unless you start throwing money around.
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: Deidre32 on March 03, 2015, 10:45:16 PM
Quote from: aitm on March 03, 2015, 09:33:39 PM
I often wonder the same thing. In my case, my wonderful beautiful sexy wife just went….meh…a few shorts months after the kid was born…and now simply doesn't care enough to care enough. A rather very hard and difficult blow to the ego that not much can cure. She has given her okay for me to pursue whatever I should desire….like that is easy after 25 years of marriage, and at my age, not so easy unless you start throwing money around.
she never masturbates?
Title: Re: Pill: Viagra for the female brain
Post by: stromboli on March 03, 2015, 10:57:39 PM
Wow, I must be a lucky guy. There has never been any issues with sex between my wife and I. She has always enjoyed it and we have always been mutually satisfied with the experience.