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Humanities Section => Political/Government General Discussion => Topic started by: AllPurposeAtheist on October 09, 2014, 02:06:11 PM

Title: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on October 09, 2014, 02:06:11 PM
Worth your time from Louis and the ACLU.
https://www.aclu.org/secure/what-the-eff?emsrc=Nat_Appeal_AutologinEnabled&emissue=votingrights&emtype=petition&ms=eml_141009_votingrights&__af=Ri6qyZJBNtDIcXf2oEtxTGY2rUs4wX9oYvso5tEAz5jfjN6TrL5IO%2FGWjxJtz03c%2BMqOrKDcdCYZrV1lo4eb8i4uP5fCeJXSPJPpXXWlDbnYcEV%2Fuzt5tkAGYReYxvBrphC%2FN16621f5rZ10%2FUpqkEPxFoSZ6VTrtAw1P%2B3DwA4Ij8mWL7qlWQCZ%2BuVk4G6Ns0QUlKdaRtminjIN8t7Zow%3D%3D&__spstate=full#readmore.
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: Hydra009 on October 09, 2014, 06:48:34 PM
Lewis, Mr. President
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on October 09, 2014, 07:30:17 PM
I'd be OK if the president told a republican congress to go fuck themselves in those words..
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: lyeman on October 10, 2014, 06:04:47 PM
Every act of Congress looks good if you only read the first page or so. I don't even know what I'm signing.
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: SGOS on October 11, 2014, 06:56:13 AM
A lot of people don't like democracy.  They like to say they do, and they get all patriotic and gooey over their own love of the word "democracy," but they really don't like the concept when it comes right down to it.  What they really want is to have their way all the time.  But getting your way all the time is not democracy.  It's more like a dictatorship.  Democracy is a whole different concept.
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: Johan on October 11, 2014, 10:04:34 AM
I haven't seen such top shelf porn grade acting and production values since Anal Whores 2.
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on October 11, 2014, 10:06:38 AM
Quote from: Johan on October 11, 2014, 10:04:34 AM
I haven't seen such top shelf porn grade acting and production values since Anal Whores 2.
And republicans play the same whorish games with 'voter fraud' Johan and you know it..
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: Johan on October 11, 2014, 10:46:46 AM
Oh I'm not arguing against the message. We're on the same page there. That video just looks like it was written directed and produced by someone who failed a high school level communications class. It was downright painful to watch.

Maybe I'm being a snob but I'm of the belief that when you produce video to deliver a message, you have to nail the acting and production quality. Because if you don't. people end up remembering how much the video sucked rather than the message you were trying to deliver.
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: SGOS on October 11, 2014, 10:52:30 AM
The video did appear to be overacted, but I thought that was intentional.  Otherwise you wouldn't hire Louis Black play the role.
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on October 11, 2014, 11:34:24 AM
Quote from: Johan on October 11, 2014, 10:46:46 AM
Oh I'm not arguing against the message. We're on the same page there. That video just looks like it was written directed and produced by someone who failed a high school level communications class. It was downright painful to watch.

Maybe I'm being a snob but I'm of the belief that when you produce video to deliver a message, you have to nail the acting and production quality. Because if you don't. people end up remembering how much the video sucked rather than the message you were trying to deliver.
I tend to agree..not well done. But the message is clear..
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: Johan on October 11, 2014, 11:42:12 AM
Six months from now, the only message I'll remember from this is that Lewis Black can nail porn quality forced acting if he puts his mind to it. I'll have to find this thread to actually remember which group he was supporting or what message he was trying to deliver.
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: the_antithesis on October 11, 2014, 11:50:54 AM
Quote from: Johan on October 11, 2014, 11:42:12 AM
Six months from now, the only message I'll remember from this is that Lewis Black can nail porn quality forced acting if he puts his mind to it. I'll have to find this thread to actually remember which group he was supporting or what message he was trying to deliver.

That's too bad.
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: Johan on October 11, 2014, 12:33:19 PM
Quote from: the_antithesis on October 11, 2014, 11:50:54 AM
That's too bad.
That's human nature. You can pretend that people don't work that way all you like. You can look down your nose at people who do work that way to make yourself feel smuggly superior as you've done here, but it won't change reality.
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on October 11, 2014, 12:39:04 PM
Louis Black could just as easily made it part of his standup routine and I'm sure it would go over much better, but that's a commercial gig and pissing off sponsors would lose him audience share on cable or wherever..
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: the_antithesis on October 11, 2014, 12:47:46 PM
Quote from: Johan on October 11, 2014, 12:33:19 PM
That's human nature. You can pretend that people don't work that way all you like. You can look down your nose at people who do work that way to make yourself feel smuggly superior as you've done here, but it won't change reality.

You really need to stop talking to yourself like that.
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: Johan on October 12, 2014, 07:32:14 AM
Quote from: the_antithesis on October 11, 2014, 12:47:46 PM
You really need to stop talking to yourself like that.
Really? 'I know you are but what am I?' Really? What are you 12?
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: the_antithesis on October 12, 2014, 01:10:03 PM
Quote from: Johan on October 12, 2014, 07:32:14 AM
Really? 'I know you are but what am I?' Really? What are you 12?

No, but you are, apparently.

I watched that video to see what was so bad about it that you decided to make this thread about you instead. What I saw was the kind of shaky cam bullshit that has been stupidly in vogue for the last twenty years. At least in this case it has some context where Black and that other guy are supposed to be at a photo shoot and are talking behind the scenes. Usually, commercials with sort of aesthetic doesn't even have that much.

Now, I'm not saying you're wrong. I've hated this faux documentary style since before became overused because it is stupid. But you talked about it like it was something new, when it's not, and you feel some need to defend your opinion like it matters.

I hate those stupid touchpad mice they put on laptops these days and would rather have a nice keyboard clit. But they don't have those in Best Buy, so I get to eat shit.

And you get to eat shit.

We all get to eat shit.

That's what life is about. Seeing how much shit you have to eat before you die.
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: Hydra009 on October 12, 2014, 01:29:24 PM
Quote from: the_antithesis on October 12, 2014, 01:10:03 PMI hate those stupid touchpad mice they put on laptops these days and would rather have a nice keyboard clit.
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/02/mj-laughing.gif)

:rotflmao:
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: the_antithesis on October 12, 2014, 01:38:28 PM
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Qe-EFoGEl24/UjKi1laW01I/AAAAAAAAAks/KhExVphmJoY/s400/pointing+stick.jpg)

Bow chicka chicka wow wow.
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: Johan on October 12, 2014, 10:13:16 PM
Quote from: the_antithesis on October 12, 2014, 01:10:03 PM

Now, I'm not saying you're wrong. I've hated this faux documentary style since before became overused because it is stupid. But you talked about it like it was something new, when it's not,
I never said the style was new. What's new, or at least unexpected to me about it is that Lewis Black is involved in it. I've seen a reasonable amount of his work and almost all of it was very good IMO. This was far from good. Its not like him to put up with that or put his name on it. That's what I found unusual about it. And yeah, I found it very distracting. So much so that i thought it got in the way of the message. If you didn't, goodie for you.

Quoteand you feel some need to defend your opinion like it matters.
Internet much? People share opinions on it. Takes some getting used to when you're new I guess. You'll get there though, just hang in there.
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: lyeman on October 13, 2014, 01:35:05 AM
Quote from: the_antithesis on October 12, 2014, 01:10:03 PM
No, but you are, apparently.

I watched that video to see what was so bad about it that you decided to make this thread about you instead. What I saw was the kind of shaky cam bullshit that has been stupidly in vogue for the last twenty years. At least in this case it has some context where Black and that other guy are supposed to be at a photo shoot and are talking behind the scenes. Usually, commercials with sort of aesthetic doesn't even have that much.

Now, I'm not saying you're wrong. I've hated this faux documentary style since before became overused because it is stupid. But you talked about it like it was something new, when it's not, and you feel some need to defend your opinion like it matters.

I hate those stupid touchpad mice they put on laptops these days and would rather have a nice keyboard clit. But they don't have those in Best Buy, so I get to eat shit.

And you get to eat shit.

We all get to eat shit.

That's what life is about. Seeing how much shit you have to eat before you die.

tl;dr You win because you're an asshole. Is that a common tactic around here?
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: PickelledEggs on October 13, 2014, 03:04:42 AM
Quote from: lyeman on October 13, 2014, 01:35:05 AM
tl;dr You win because you're an asshole. Is that a common tactic around here?
I don't think he necessarily won.....


BUT.... THAT was the greatest genital/tech joke I have ever heard.
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on October 13, 2014, 03:34:19 AM
In my Louis Black voice.... NOBODY GETS TO WIN THIS FUCKING THREAD DAMMIT! It's not a "The last asshole to post here wins" fucking thread!

Back to my normal cerebral voice...
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: lyeman on October 13, 2014, 01:20:09 PM
That flowchart is terrible, but it's not actually that complex. All it says is that there are like 5 different ways to get an id.
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: PickelledEggs on October 13, 2014, 01:34:53 PM
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on October 13, 2014, 03:34:19 AM
In my Louis Black voice.... NOBODY GETS TO WIN THIS FUCKING THREAD DAMMIT! It's not a "The last asshole to post here wins" fucking thread!

Back to my normal cerebral voice...

Yeah. That's what I meant.

This isn't a contest.

Still though...  That joke was amazing.

Sent from your mom

Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on October 13, 2014, 07:15:22 PM
Personally I don't really care if you claim victory or get spanked on your bare ass by aunt Mildred's fancy hair brush.. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: the_antithesis on October 14, 2014, 03:22:31 PM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on October 13, 2014, 03:04:42 AM
I don't think he necessarily won.....


BUT.... THAT was the greatest genital/tech joke I have ever heard.

Credit where credit is due.

(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/appropriate_term.png)
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: lyeman on October 15, 2014, 11:24:52 AM
Why is voter id "racist?" Why are black people so incapable of getting ids, at least according to the democratic party and its apologists?
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on October 15, 2014, 01:55:24 PM
Both parties do it, but it is really only the icing on the cake of voter fraud.  The cake itself is a three layer cake.

Layer 1: Campaign contribution limits that hurt small parties more than they hurt the big parties.  "Getting money out of politics" has actually increased the role of money in politics.
Layer 2: Ballot access restrictions that are often MORE onerous for third parties than the big parties, complete with allowing the big parties on the ballot even if they fail to qualify and sometimes leaving third parties off the ballot even when they do qualify.
Layer 3: Gerrymandered districts, so almost every district is either Republican safe or Democrat safe to the point where inside that district the other party is as powerful as a third party.
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on October 15, 2014, 01:56:33 PM
Quote from: lyeman on October 15, 2014, 11:24:52 AM
Why is voter id "racist?" Why are black people so incapable of getting ids, at least according to the democratic party and its apologists?

Watch out, that question is racist.  But yes, I think there is something very wrong with a party that says "minorities can't get IDs."
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on October 15, 2014, 02:18:12 PM
The problem is that ids cost money and take time to issue (longer if you don't have all your documentation ducks in a row), which makes it difficult to get them on short notice and if you are poor â€" which tend to be the case if you are in a minority. Your right to vote is dependent on whether or not you are a citizen, not on whether or not you have a certain card in your wallet or purse.
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on October 15, 2014, 03:12:26 PM
Yes, if you say "oh shit there's an election today I must get an ID" then it is very difficult.
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on October 15, 2014, 03:28:29 PM
Did you miss the point that your right to vote is contingent upon citizenship and not the possession of an ID?
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on October 15, 2014, 05:05:13 PM
I got it.  So how do we know the person wanting to vote is a citizen?
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on October 15, 2014, 11:34:03 PM
Check after the fact, using this nifty device called a "provisional ballot." Your vote can be counted immediately if you have ID, sure, but if you don't, your vote will still count.
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: Hydra009 on October 15, 2014, 11:45:26 PM
Voter registration is a pretty good way of figuring out if someone is a citizen and/or registered to vote.
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: PickelledEggs on October 16, 2014, 12:48:33 AM
Quote from: lyeman on October 15, 2014, 11:24:52 AM
Why do I ask such stupid questions?

fify*
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on October 16, 2014, 08:46:18 AM
Quote from: Jason_Harvestdancer on October 15, 2014, 01:55:24 PM
Both parties do it, but it is really only the icing on the cake of voter fraud.  The cake itself is a three layer cake.

Layer 1: Campaign contribution limits that hurt small parties more than they hurt the big parties.  "Getting money out of politics" has actually increased the role of money in politics.
Layer 2: Ballot access restrictions that are often MORE onerous for third parties than the big parties, complete with allowing the big parties on the ballot even if they fail to qualify and sometimes leaving third parties off the ballot even when they do qualify.
Layer 3: Gerrymandered districts, so almost every district is either Republican safe or Democrat safe to the point where inside that district the other party is as powerful as a third party.
Actually, the cake is four-layered, with the last layer being the cause of it all.

Layer 4: First past the post voting inevitably leads to two-party systems, as CGP Grey explains:



Yes, even our own voting system itself is against third parties.
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: lyeman on October 16, 2014, 01:20:44 PM
There are obvious reasons for being in favor of voter id, mostly because it seems like the most basic precaution possible. The real question is: why are some people so against it?

I watched the video, and MMPR seems like the best system, aside from giving the internal politics of political parties too much sway. I think the solution to that is to make the internal politics of political parties more rationalized, IOW in order to enter  a political party into an election, it has to have a "constitution" that is available to the public.

Also, they keep citing "minority rule" as the main problem. The way that this term can characterize the actions of the Democratic Party is a bit unfortunate.
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on October 16, 2014, 05:12:11 PM
You'd think that.

The vote is the one point in a person's life where the poor man is exactly as powerful as the rich man. No matter how cheap it is, the voter ID is going to cost some money. Money that will be paid by the voter, and is a cost that will be proportionately be more for the poor man than for the rich man. In short, voter IDs are discriminatory towards poor voters. The other point is that voting is a right. It is not something you take away unless you can prove that the person in question doesn't have it, just like you don't imprison people who can't prove that they shouldn't be in jail.

As such, I would approve of voter IDs if two conditions were met:

(1) The voter ID is issued on the government's dime, and
(2) A good faith effort is made to make sure that every person qualified to vote gets their voter ID.

...which is basically what Get Out the Vote projects do already, by making sure that every person who is qualified to vote to be registered to vote.

The second problem with voter IDs is that is "solving" a problem that doesn't really seem to exist: if it exists at all, by any realistic measure voter fraud is nowhere near bad enough to actually change outcomes of real elections â€" by any real measure, fraudulent votes are not a problem. So why spend money on something that is not a problem?

There's really only one answer: voter ID laws are election fraud, to shape the outcome of elections by discouraging otherwise qualified voters from voting. Such laws are proposed mainly by Republicans, and the Republicans are the party that benefits from low voter turnout. This does not speak well for them.
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on October 16, 2014, 10:10:36 PM
WTF are you two yammering on about now? Oh..subterfuge.. Carry on then.. Muddy the waters as usual..
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: lyeman on October 17, 2014, 12:23:43 AM
Making people get ID's and proof of identity is the opposite of "muddying the waters."
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: PickelledEggs on October 17, 2014, 12:25:57 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5IOou6qN1o

Did someone say muddy waters?
Title: Re: Louis Black on voter suppression
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on October 17, 2014, 07:01:21 AM
Quote from: lyeman on October 17, 2014, 12:23:43 AM
Making people get ID's and proof of identity is the opposite of "muddying the waters."
It is when you are pretending there is a real problem that the IDs are solving. There isn't. There is no plethora of people ranting and raging about how their votes had been stolen because their names are already checked off when they haven't previously visited any polling place.

It is muddying the waters if you pretend that such a system will go off without a hitch and that everyone who is now qualified to vote (or will be by the next election) will get their voter ID by election day, and thus the current (poor) voter turnout will even be sustained. Or that a family struggling to make ends meet will be able to afford voter ID cards.

When the premises you base a decision on are false, it's muddying the waters.