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Humanities Section => Political/Government General Discussion => Topic started by: lumpymunk on August 22, 2014, 01:25:58 AM

Title: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: lumpymunk on August 22, 2014, 01:25:58 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRNPA5k9MIw

Laughed,

But in all seriousness... its funny that all these people are rioting/protesting.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Shiranu on August 22, 2014, 04:59:37 AM
Yeah, there is something oddly funny about people rioting and protesting after generations of being harassed and murdered by cops, isn't there?

Just a real jolly hoot that people think they should hit the streets after one more person of their race is gunned down in the street while unarmed and committing no crime.

And lets not forget how hilarious it is that civilians practicing their right to free speech have to hold their hands in the air so that a trigger-happy pig hopefully doesn't put a few bullets in them or give them a nice tear gas canister to the face.

Fuck off.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: aitm on August 22, 2014, 09:02:35 PM
Yeah, there is something oddly funny about people rioting and protesting after generations of being harassed and murdered by cops, isn't there?
Not funny, but poignant that, like some of the past, they failed to understand history:
http://chicagodefender.com/2014/08/14/gilbert-arenas-blasts-ferguson-rioters-calls-sharpton-a-thot/
destroying ones own backyard is a good sign of not just naiveness, but stupidity
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: baronvonrort on August 23, 2014, 12:40:00 AM
Yeah, there is something oddly funny about people rioting and protesting after generations of being harassed and murdered by cops, isn't there?

Just a real jolly hoot that people think they should hit the streets after one more person of their race is gunned down in the street while unarmed and committing no crime.



So stealing from a shop is no crime,perhaps the Police officer should have put some sticky tape over the bullet hole in his car and pretend the gun did not go off in the car while struggling with this gentle giant.

When Dillon Taylor was shot by a non white policeman for no reason in Salt lake city did the whitefellas start looting and rioting?

Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Shiranu on August 23, 2014, 01:11:38 AM
Quote
So stealing from a shop is no crime...

Are we going to start shooting shop lifters now? Might as well give people the death penalty for jay-walking as well, amirite? I say, let us put the bastards who commit truancy in the electric chair!

And according to the Ferguson PD, officer Wilson had no knowledge of the shoplifting. Even if it was Brown in the video all it is is a smear campaign.

Quote
...perhaps the Police officer should have...

Let me stop you right there...

Perhaps the Police officer should not be approaching a man who is doing nothing illegal.
Perhaps the Police officer should not, according to eyewitnesses, pull a gun on an unarmed man that is several feet away (according to forensics, Brown was no closer than 4 feet and possibly up to 30 feet away)

Perhaps people shouldn't take the cops on their fucking word because they lie to us time, and time, and time a-fucking-gain.

Look, I don't trust the eyewitnesses; I feel they have just as much agenda to make the police look bad as the police did to cover their mistake. But you don't know what the fuck happened, I don't know what fucking happened. What we DO know is that...

- Brown was no closer than 4 feet from officer Wilson when he was shot according to forensics.
- There was no sign of any powder or burns on Brown's body which is consistent with him having been killed from range.
- Even if they had been in a struggle, both sides say that Brown was fleeing when he was gunned down.

Quote
When Dillon Taylor was shot by a non white policeman for no reason in Salt lake city did the whitefellas start looting and rioting?

No, probably because white people aren't fucking murdered left and right, thrown in jail left and right, stopped and frisked left and right, harassed and threatened left and white by the fucking police. Maybe because white people aren't a fucking minority that can be picked on by some asswipes with a badge and a gun. Maybe because white people don't fucking know what it's like to have to look over your god damned shoulder when a cop is around because you are of the wrong ethnic group, to have the fear that at any moment some wack-job racist is going to assault you or worse and get away scott-free because of our notoriously poor justice system, that cops can and will stop you simply because you "look like a criminal".

Yeah, I cant fucking imagine why minorities (not just blacks, this is a problem for latino communities as well such as the one I grew up in) protest shit like this. It's not about this one case, I don't know the details enough to make a call on how "deserved" it was. But I do fucking know that gunning an unarmed man down in the street is sketchy as fuck and I sure as hell know that how the police department has handled the affair, from arresting and harassing journalists to pulling guns and fucking pointing them at peaceful protesters is not acceptable.

I'm not sure if I am more disgusted by your, "But... but, white people have it bad too!" or your acceptance of a police militarization and brutalitiy culture.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: baronvonrort on August 23, 2014, 01:22:46 AM
You said he had done no crime, he stole from a shop and assaulted a Police officer, many claimed he was shot in the back yet that turned out to be bullshit.

I have lived and worked in the USA for 2 years, i spent a year in Boca Raton and another year in Boston, i have never had any problems with the  USA Police, i would describe them as rational reasonable and professional.

Shiranu why do you have a Aussie flag for your avatar,are you ashamed of your own flag?
Please remove that flag from your avatar, you are not Australian and have nothing in common with Australians.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Shiranu on August 23, 2014, 01:37:46 AM
Edit; sorry, not going to give you the satisfaction of thinking you warrant an actual response. You are too fucking stupid to deserve that. You clearly know nothing about American culture or statistics so it is about as useful as arguing with a baby.

Quote
Shiranu why do you have a Aussie flag for your avatar

Because I want to.

Quote
Please remove that flag from your avatar, you are not Australian and have nothing in common with Australians.

Very bold, coming from someone who doesn't know me, my personality, my cultural background or even where my ancestors came from.

I think I am going to have to stick with it, sorry. I am sure you will learn to deal with it.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: baronvonrort on August 23, 2014, 02:07:34 AM
Edit; sorry, not going to give you the satisfaction of thinking you warrant an actual response. You are too fucking stupid to deserve that. You clearly know nothing about American culture or statistics so it is about as useful as arguing with a baby.

Because I want to.

Very bold, coming from someone who doesn't know me, my personality, my cultural background or even where my ancestors came from.

I think I am going to have to stick with it, sorry. I am sure you will learn to deal with it.

I have Resident Alien status in the USA, i even have a social security number,i have lived and worked in the USA yet dumbfuckistanis like you claim i know nothing about the USA.

Here is a article written by Sunil Dutta, a 17 year veteran of the LAPD.
Quote
Im a cop, if you dont want to get hurt dont challenge me, Even though this sounds harsh and impolite,here is the bottom line:if you don't want to get shot,tasered or pepper sprayed,struck with a baton or thrown to the ground,just do what i tell you.
edition.cnn.com/2014/08/20/us/ferguson-column-police-reaction/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/20/us/ferguson-column-police-reaction/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)
That sounds like good advice!

You are not Australian, you know nothing about Australian culture,you are a dickhead who is ashamed of your own flag and prefer the Australian flag.

We are not pussies like you seppos, we elect Atheists to run our country instead of whingeing about christians which is par for the course with leftists from the USA.

Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Shiranu on August 23, 2014, 02:24:31 AM
Quote
I have Resident Alien status in the USA, i even have a social security number,i have lived and worked in the USA yet dumbfuckistanis like you claim i know nothing about the USA.

The fuck you want, a medal? You clearly don't since, if you did, you would realize the huge discrepancy between how the law treats rich people and whites and how it treats minorities. This isn't exactly new news.

Quote
That sounds like good advice!

Yeah, it does, one  I personally live by... too bad not every cop is made from the same cookie cutter mold. Ah well.

Quote
We are not pussies like you...

I know Australians aren't, that's why I respect them. You're little crybaby hissyfit bullshit though is really tarnishing the rep of the Australian people, I didn't know they knew how to breed little bitches like yourself. Guess there is always that one bad seed...

Do you have anything to contribute, or are you just going to continue to cry like a little bitch? The only reason I am bothering is this thread was a farce from the get-go, and a 1/4th of a bottle of cacacha down and I have nothing better to do besides laugh at youtube videos and you, in alternating order.

I will be honest, I am giving the youtube videos a bit more of my time...

Quote
...is ashamed of your own flag and prefer the Australian flag.

Of course I prefer the Aussie flag, I mean look at it... it looks bad ass. The American flag is lame as fuck.

As for shame of my flag... what, my flag makes my country racist? Makes my country warmongers? Makes my country corrupt? No, I don't think my flag has anything to do with that so I see no reason to be ashamed of it. I just don't care for it, again... it looks lame as fuck. Woooow, some stars and some horizontal lines... such cool...
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: baronvonrort on August 23, 2014, 02:52:44 AM
The fuck you want, a medal? You clearly don't since, if you did, you would realize the huge discrepancy between how the law treats rich people and whites and how it treats minorities. This isn't exactly new news.

I know Australians aren't, that's why I respect them. You're little crybaby hissyfit bullshit though is really tarnishing the rep of the Australian people, I didn't know they knew how to breed little bitches like yourself. Guess there is always that one bad seed...

Of course I prefer the Aussie flag, I mean look at it... it looks bad ass. The American flag is lame as fuck.

So how did your laws treat OJ Simpson?

Dickheads like you tarnish the reputations of Australians by using our flag as your avatar, piss off and find another flag for your avatar.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Shiranu on August 23, 2014, 03:05:29 AM
Quote
So how did your laws treat OJ Simpson?

Quote
...how the law treats rich people...

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/259/943/694.png)

Quote
Dickheads like you tarnish the reputations of Australians by using our flag as your avatar, piss off and find another flag for your avatar.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6gG_jLAjguY/USCwE6c9H5I/AAAAAAAAKpQ/TYl3IIuZFSk/s1600/sloth-no.gif)

If you could stop tarnishing the reputation of Australians by making them seem like a bunch of crybaby little bitches, that would be great.

You were talking about being ashamed of the U.S. flag... I daresay sir, you have made me ashamed to use the Australian flag, because I fear people might assume that all Australians are little bitches like yourself. Perhaps I should change simply so that people do not think we are together.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Atheon on August 23, 2014, 03:25:45 AM
So stealing from a shop is no crime
The cop who shot him didn't know he had shoplifted, so that's not why he shot him.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: baronvonrort on August 23, 2014, 04:08:53 AM
The cop who shot him didn't know he had shoplifted, so that's not why he shot him.

Do you think the cop should have put sticky tape over the bullet hole in his car and pretend the struggle that caused his gun to discharge did not happen?
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Shiranu on August 23, 2014, 04:13:20 AM
Do you think the cop should have put sticky tape over the bullet hole in his car and pretend the struggle that caused his gun to discharge did not happen?

Irrelevant. The cop should not have confronted a citizen who is not committing a crime and (as far as the officer knew) had not committed any crime.

Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: baronvonrort on August 23, 2014, 04:14:27 AM

I daresay sir, you have made me ashamed to use the Australian flag, because I fear people might assume that all Australians are little bitches like yourself. Perhaps I should change simply so that people do not think we are together.

You are the whiney bitch who is ashamed of your own flag otherwise you would not be using the Australian flag.

Yes change it i dont want ex muslim atheists who come to this forum to think dickhead Islamic apologists like you are Australian.


*mod* Thats enough, everybody calm down, back off, shut up or just leave-aitm
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: aitm on August 23, 2014, 09:08:15 AM
Again, in cased you two missed it. Thats enough bitchin. Give it a rest.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Icarus on August 23, 2014, 10:56:01 AM
Dickheads like you tarnish the reputations of Australians by using our flag as your avatar, piss off and find another flag for your avatar.

I have to ask, what reputation? I'm not an American or an Australian and have never heard of Australians having a reputation beyond inventing slang that sounds funny. Oh and abusing the native Australians, I'm not sure Shiranu can do more damage even if he spent his entire life working towards that goal. I think you're inventing a problem to cause conflict.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on August 23, 2014, 11:54:30 AM
I'm not an American or an Australian and have never heard of Australians having a reputation beyond inventing slang that sounds funny.
The only two things I really know about Australia are that Steve Irwin lived there, and that Godzilla killed Zilla by whacking him into the Sydney Opera House.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIcExdpsEcQ
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Shiranu on August 23, 2014, 04:56:52 PM
The Ferguson police officially released their incident report...

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/226910/ferguson-police-release-michael-brown-incident-report-and-its-empty/

(http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Ferguson_Police_incident_report-1-452x585.png)

Stay classy, Ferguson PD.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: zarus tathra on August 24, 2014, 12:22:41 PM
Apparently arrest rates match victim reports almost perfectly, putting a huge damper on the theory that the cops are "racist" (http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_2_criminal_justice_system.html).
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on August 24, 2014, 10:11:13 PM
A lot of convictions are based solely on eyewitness testimony and identification which we know can be very faulty. (http://www.innocenceproject.org/understand/Eyewitness-Misidentification.php) As such, such figures are unreliable and suffer from confirmation bias — if your focused myoptically on one version of the event, unless you are very careful in your procedure (which not every police department is), your initial focus can easily lead to a conviction, even if the suspect is actually innocent. (http://www.thejuryexpert.com/2012/11/only-the-guilty-would-confess-to-crimes%E2%80%A8-understanding-the-mystery-of-false-confessions/)

Eyewitness identification of assailants can be wrong in an astonishing 75% percent of cases. This is in rape, where the victim has the most incentive and opportunity (no other people involved, extended period to memorize the assailant's features) to get the identification right, and because DNA is available we can actually test to see if they are. And they're shockingly poor — to the tune of 75% wrong. Think of how wrong an identification can get when the eyewitnesses doesn't have as much incentive or opportunity to get the ID right, like the fleeting glimpse of a suspect involved in a shoplifting case.

This leads me to believe that the correlation you cite is very much suspect. It is not a good piece of evidence against the case that the justice system is racist. Even if the majority of crimes are stratified by race, it is the disparity between the true criminals and the convictions that the racism lies.

A blank incident report for an incident that clearly occurred is not very good PR. An incident report should have been filled with as much documentation as they could whenever a death occurs, even if just to cover their asses.

Something is wrong with your department if police officers are shooting anyone dead for shoplifting — something is wrong with YOU if you think anyone deserves that fate. And something is wrong with your department if police officers are shooting people even before they knew a crime had been committed.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Hydra009 on August 25, 2014, 01:51:48 AM
The Ferguson police officially released their incident report...

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/226910/ferguson-police-release-michael-brown-incident-report-and-its-empty/
Looks like it was blacked out.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Moralnihilist on August 25, 2014, 10:26:20 AM
The only two things I really know about Australia are that Steve Irwin lived there, and that Godzilla killed Zilla by whacking him into the Sydney Opera House.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIcExdpsEcQ

I knew that and they are all named Bruce.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f_p0CgPeyA
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: josephpalazzo on August 25, 2014, 10:33:16 AM
Something is wrong with your department if police officers are shooting anyone dead for shoplifting — something is wrong with YOU if you think anyone deserves that fate. And something is wrong with your department if police officers are shooting people even before they knew a crime had been committed.

Hmmm, considering there are more than 200 million guns in the country, if I were a cop, I would shoot first then ask questions. BTW, I've never own a gun, never shot one, just saying that living in a gun culture, you have every reason to fear for your life, and as a cop, life must be hell.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Brian37 on August 25, 2014, 11:06:01 AM
I am so sick of idiots pointing out the rioters thinking a few people represent all the protesters. If race was not an issue you would not even see the peaceful protesters.

I was a teen myself. I did stupid shit myself. I had a gun drawn on my by a cop once. I threw my wallet at a cop once. And guess what, I didn't end up dead while unarmed.
RACE is an issue but I am tired of both the bigots and the idiots who are not but are unaware of their own subconscious bias, constantly blaming blacks. I am white and accept that at one time was part of that bias and NO it is not a matter of "white guilt". It is merely an acceptance of the economic disparity and the lopsided nature of how law treats blacks much more negatively.

If you claim that race should not be an issue, the only way to fix that is to accept that it is an issue and don't pull the blame game or "look at what they do".

If any fucking moron posting in this thread has any fucking guts who think Brown or Garner or Martin deserved it, talk to their mothers. If you cant do that then SHUT THE FUCK UP BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE and absolutely no understanding of the disparity.

IT SHOULD BE about economics. And I do hear plenty of blacks telling other blacks not to riot. But it wo nt get fixed by ignoring that it is an issue or stupidly thinking it's all in their heads.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Brian37 on August 25, 2014, 11:11:32 AM
Hmmm, considering there are more than 200 million guns in the country, if I were a cop, I would shoot first then ask questions. BTW, I've never own a gun, never shot one, just saying that living in a gun culture, you have every reason to fear for your life, and as a cop, life must be hell.

Um our flooded gun market certainly is an issue, but we are talking about a black teen without a gun getting murdered by a cop with a gun.

Which race is always advocating no rules and a free for all "rights" issue when it comes to guns?

Never heard Al Sharpton or Jessie Jackson say anything like Wayne La P dipshit "You can pry my gun from my cold dead hands".

Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: josephpalazzo on August 25, 2014, 11:21:12 AM
Um our flooded gun market certainly is an issue, but we are talking about a black teen without a gun getting murdered by a cop with a gun.

Which race is always advocating no rules and a free for all "rights" issue when it comes to guns?

Never heard Al Sharpton or Jessie Jackson say anything like Wayne La P dipshit "You can pry my gun from my cold dead hands".


I'm going to ignore the race issue, not that it's unimportant, but sticking to my answer in regards to what it is to be a cop in the US, the cop had no idea if the victim was armed or not. It's not as if it was written on his forehead. Also, the victim was 6foot4 and weighing 300lbs. If I had been the cop in that situation I don't know if I would have reacted any different.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Brian37 on August 25, 2014, 01:18:18 PM
Nope, ignoring the race issue is precisely why nothing ever gets done. Blacks know it is an issue, far to many of us don't.

Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Brian37 on August 25, 2014, 01:22:03 PM
Explain to me how someone running away from you can magically assault you with no gun when you have one?

Now if he had approached me in a white middle class neighborhood, even if he knew I stole some cigars and shoved someone, the odds are far more likely I would have made it to the back of the police car alive and been charged with less.

I've had a gun aimed at me by a police officer, and did not end up dead. I have thrown a wallet at a cop and did not end up dead.

Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Brian37 on August 25, 2014, 03:28:19 PM
Apparently arrest rates match victim reports almost perfectly, putting a huge damper on the theory that the cops are "racist" (http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_2_criminal_justice_system.html).

Here we go again. You do not have to be racist to be unaware of your own long term conditioning. In this case the cop's training. If you are trained to assume the worst, even calls that seem simple, your mindset even before you make an approach is going to be set that way. On top of that cops are trained to dominate.

What people keep missing here is LONG TERM. Poverty and the way law enforcement treats blacks ratio wise affects them negatively more. This has nothing to do with excusing riots or looters.

No one should die for stealing cigars, or jaywalking. I did stupid shit myself as a teen, again, had a gun aimed at me by a cop, and once threw a wallet at a cop. I didn't end up dead over that.

If cops are trained to constantly fear their conditions, then the people who live under them are going to fear them.

Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: josephpalazzo on August 25, 2014, 03:54:45 PM
Nope, ignoring the race issue is precisely why nothing ever gets done. Blacks know it is an issue, far to many of us don't.



You won't get an argument from me that racism is alive and kicking in the US, and a good reason why there has been so much opposition to Obama from the Republicans has been due on race. However screaming racism everytime a white cop shoots a black kid without knowing all the facts might be a hindrance to solve the racist issue. It might be that in this case, the cop lost his nerves or the kid went bersek and lounged into the police like a maniac. We simply don't know. Does this cop have a history of having a chip on his shoulders in regards to black people? Is there anything we can say that this cop has a history of demeanors that suggest strongly he is a racist? 

Explain to me how someone running away from you can magically assault you with no gun when you have one?

Now if he had approached me in a white middle class neighborhood, even if he knew I stole some cigars and shoved someone, the odds are far more likely I would have made it to the back of the police car alive and been charged with less.

I've had a gun aimed at me by a police officer, and did not end up dead. I have thrown a wallet at a cop and did not end up dead.



Are you 6foot4, weighing 300 lbs? Did you ever act out like this kid did in the convenience store - shoved the owner off as if he was some pesky animal? It's very possible that the kid was told by the police to move out of the street where he was blocking the traffic, and instead of complying, decided to act out like he did in the store. Now, the owner wisely did not pursue, but the cop would not have that option. When temper are rising, it's easy to go from an insult, to throwing a fist to a fatal shot.  That scenario is quite likely, and race might have not been an issue. But there are investigations, and we will see with more facts as they come out if racism played a part in this shooting.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: zarus tathra on August 25, 2014, 04:53:11 PM
Quote
If cops are trained to constantly fear their conditions, then the people who live under them are going to fear them.

Yeah we should train them to be like samurai and not fear death. Make them sit under waterfalls for hours on end and have them duck under a swinging sword as their final test before graduation.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Icarus on August 25, 2014, 06:31:08 PM
Yeah we should train them to be like samurai and not fear death. Make them sit under waterfalls for hours on end and have them duck under a swinging sword as their final test before graduation.

No intelligent response, therefore revert to sarcasm. Seems like you're having difficulties with the whole "thinking" process.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: aitm on August 25, 2014, 07:04:23 PM
Joe has the right track here....lets be unpopular and wait until we have all the facts.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: baronvonrort on August 25, 2014, 09:27:43 PM
Um our flooded gun market certainly is an issue, but we are talking about a black teen without a gun getting murdered by a cop with a gun.

Which race is always advocating no rules and a free for all "rights" issue when it comes to guns?

Never heard Al Sharpton or Jessie Jackson say anything like Wayne La P dipshit "You can pry my gun from my cold dead hands".


If you steal from a shop then jaywalk with your ill gotten gains then assault a cop who tells you to get off the road resulting in his firearm discharging inside the Police car don't whinge to me if the cop shoots you.

As for the anti gun bigots consider these facts-
Quote
-In 2008, the homicide victimization rate for blacks (19.6 homicides per 100,000) was 6 times higher than the rate for whites (3.3 homicides per 100,000)
-The victimization rate for blacks peaked in the early 1990's reaching a high of 39.4 homicides per 100,000 in 1991
-In 2008 the offending rate for blacks (24.7 offenders per 100,000) was 7 times higher than the rate for whites (3.4 offenders per 100,000)
-The offending rate for blacks showed a similar pattern to the victimization rate, peaking in the early 1990's at a high of 51.1 offenders per 100,000 in 1991
-After 1991, the offending rate for blacks declined until it reached 24 per 100,000 in 2004.This rate has since fluctuated,increasing to 28.4 offenders per 100,000 in 2006 before falling to 24.7 per 100,000 in 2008.
Source- Dept of Justice page 11
www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf (http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf)

Of course the leftist gun grabbers are silent on which race has the highest homicide rate, did the Chicago gun laws work?
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Icarus on August 25, 2014, 10:15:12 PM
If you steal from a shop then jaywalk with your ill gotten gains then assault a cop who tells you to get off the road resulting in his firearm discharging inside the Police car don't whinge to me if the cop shoots you.

As for the anti gun bigots consider these facts-
Of course the leftist gun grabbers are silent on which race has the highest homicide rate, did the Chicago gun laws work?

Lets find out if gun laws work, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate, it seems they do. You seem to be tackling two different issues in one post, gun laws in general and firearms related deaths by race in the USA.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Jmpty on August 25, 2014, 10:53:38 PM
If you steal from a shop then jaywalk with your ill gotten gains then assault a cop who tells you to get off the road resulting in his firearm discharging inside the Police car don't whinge to me if the cop shoots you.



As for the anti gun bigots consider these facts-
Of course the leftist gun grabbers are silent on which race has the highest homicide rate, did the Chicago gun laws work?

How do you know what happened? You seem so certain.

you should examine the gun laws in the neighboring states. Where are the guns coming from?

If you use terms like "anti gun bigots," and "leftist gun grabbers," don't expect anyone with half a brain to take anything you say seriously.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: PickelledEggs on August 25, 2014, 11:06:32 PM
Anti gun bigot...  Never heard that before... 

What the fuck is an antigun  bigot?

Sent from your mom

Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on August 25, 2014, 11:17:44 PM
I like it how baronvonrot likes to pretend that whites and blacks have comparable socioeconomic status.

Normalize your figures for the effects of poverty and other confounding factors and they might mean something.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: baronvonrort on August 25, 2014, 11:25:09 PM
Lets find out if gun laws work, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate, it seems they do. You seem to be tackling two different issues in one post, gun laws in general and firearms related deaths by race in the USA.

California has 3.4 firearm homicides per 100,000, Texas has 3.2 firearm homicides per 100,000
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state)

In Australia i have a Ruger SR762 with 20 and 25 round magazines along with a Gemtech Sandstorm suppressor with my Category D licence, a Ruger SR762 is not available for Americans in California with your assault weapon ban and magazine restrictions.
California has some of the toughest gun laws in the USA
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_California)

Texas has a lower firearm homicide rate compared to California yet they allow all sorts of firearms, of course the anti gun bigots ignore this fact.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Texas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Texas)

Australia never had drive by shootings before our gun laws were introduced in 1996,of course it is not law abiding firearm owners doing these drive by shootings, how many do we have these days?
https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=drive+by+shooting+sydney (https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=drive+by+shooting+sydney)

Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: baronvonrort on August 25, 2014, 11:31:27 PM
I like it how baronvonrot likes to pretend that whites and blacks have comparable socioeconomic status.

Normalize your figures for the effects of poverty and other confounding factors and they might mean something.



I worked with some pretty cool African Americans in Boston,perhaps they got off their asses and achieved something instead of making excuses.

Are you saying whitefellas are exempt from poverty in the USA?
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Hydra009 on August 25, 2014, 11:56:39 PM
Australia never had drive by shootings before our gun laws were introduced in 1996,of course it is not law abiding firearm owners doing these drive by shootings, how many do we have these days?
https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=drive+by+shooting+sydney (https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=drive+by+shooting+sydney)
Interesting statist...anecdote.  It's strange that you picked Australia as an example, though.

(http://www.abc.net.au/news/linkableblob/4905120/data/chart3a-deaths-resulting-from-firearms-data.jpg)

(http://www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/tandi2/tandi269-4.gif)

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/tandi/261-280/tandi269.html
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Icarus on August 26, 2014, 07:32:33 AM
California has 3.4 firearm homicides per 100,000, Texas has 3.2 firearm homicides per 100,000
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state)

In Australia i have a Ruger SR762 with 20 and 25 round magazines along with a Gemtech Sandstorm suppressor with my Category D licence, a Ruger SR762 is not available for Americans in California with your assault weapon ban and magazine restrictions.
California has some of the toughest gun laws in the USA
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_California)

Texas has a lower firearm homicide rate compared to California yet they allow all sorts of firearms, of course the anti gun bigots ignore this fact.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Texas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Texas)

Australia never had drive by shootings before our gun laws were introduced in 1996,of course it is not law abiding firearm owners doing these drive by shootings, how many do we have these days?
https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=drive+by+shooting+sydney (https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=drive+by+shooting+sydney)

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that Texas, California and Australia were the only landmasses on the globe (two of which are located in the same country with no boarder that will check to see if you're bringing in a gun you purchased in another state). You can make statistics mean anything you want if you get to pick and choose which to use. You are being very dishonest and are incorrectly assuming we're stupid.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: stromboli on August 26, 2014, 07:42:10 AM
Herp derp yada yada. Seems like the debate always swings by this bus stop on anything involving guns. Cops have had guns since like I don't know, forever. The issue isn't gun ownership- it is racism versus overreaction by the cop in particular. Racism involved? Likely. Why? Just look at the level of representation on the force- a largely black community being policed by a nearly all white police force and governed by a nearly all white city council. Sounds like a built in bias to me.

The other issue is justification of deadly force. Without knowing all the facts, I can't state specifically, but in my opinion it was not justified. Unless there is specific intent by the perp against the officer, justification of deadly force does not apply. In my opinion the Trayvon Martin decision looms large here, because it will color all such incidents now and in the future.

The issues are racism and use of deadly force, not gun ownership.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Munch on August 26, 2014, 07:45:00 AM
Anti gun bigot...  Never heard that before... 

What the fuck is an antigun  bigot?

Sent from your mom

its where 'mericans aren't loud to adopt dem gun, cause they's like there babies!
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Moralnihilist on August 26, 2014, 08:29:55 AM
The issues are racism and use of deadly force, not gun ownership.

^THIS^
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: baronvonrort on August 26, 2014, 09:23:57 AM
The issue isn't gun ownership- it is racism versus overreaction by the cop in particular. Racism involved? Likely. Why? Just look at the level of representation on the force- a largely black community being policed by a nearly all white police force and governed by a nearly all white city council. Sounds like a built in bias to me.

The other issue is justification of deadly force. Without knowing all the facts, I can't state specifically, but in my opinion it was not justified.

So racism is why a 6'4 300lb gentle giant stood over a store owner to steal a box of cigars,racism is why he was jaywalking,racism allows him to assault a cop,wow the poor victim.

The fact is a cop can use deadly force in the USA-
Quote
A case may arise where the officer attempts to arrest a misdemeanant who assaults the officer and flees.If such an assault is a felony the person may be treated the same as any other felon.

Where the person who is resisting arrest has committed a felony and the arrest is a proper one,the officer may use deadly force if its use is necessary to subdue the arrestee
scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3737&context=jclc (http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3737&context=jclc)
If you assault a cop that is a felony,the gun discharged in the Police car during a struggle

Quote
Please stop helping us- How liberals make it harder for blacks to succeed,Jason L Riley.

Should be a good book,lol
nypost.com/2014/06/28/how-liberals-make-it-harder-for-blacks-to-succeed (http://nypost.com/2014/06/28/how-liberals-make-it-harder-for-blacks-to-succeed)
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: baronvonrort on August 26, 2014, 09:34:47 AM
Interesting statist...anecdote.  It's strange that you picked Australia as an example, though.

(http://www.abc.net.au/news/linkableblob/4905120/data/chart3a-deaths-resulting-from-firearms-data.jpg)

(http://www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/tandi2/tandi269-4.gif)

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/tandi/261-280/tandi269.html

Your link says a fall in firearm suicides is why our gun death rate is lower, of course it will not mention how hanging has replaced shooting for the most common method of suicide.



Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: josephpalazzo on August 26, 2014, 09:45:02 AM
Herp derp yada yada. Seems like the debate always swings by this bus stop on anything involving guns. Cops have had guns since like I don't know, forever. The issue isn't gun ownership- it is racism versus overreaction by the cop in particular. Racism involved? Likely. Why? Just look at the level of representation on the force- a largely black community being policed by a nearly all white police force and governed by a nearly all white city council. Sounds like a built in bias to me.

The other issue is justification of deadly force. Without knowing all the facts, I can't state specifically, but in my opinion it was not justified. Unless there is specific intent by the perp against the officer, justification of deadly force does not apply. In my opinion the Trayvon Martin decision looms large here, because it will color all such incidents now and in the future.

The issues are racism and use of deadly force, not gun ownership.

As I've mentioned before we still don't know if the cop has a history that indicates he is a racist. Perhaps we will know more on this as things will unfold. But then you could have racism in reverse: black kid approached by a black cop behaves properly; same kid approached by a white cop starts to act up.

Secondly, the use of deadly force is not totally unrelated to gun ownership: just recently I met someone ( a relative of a friend) who proudly showed me his permits, about two dozens, that allow him to carry a concealed weapon in all those states. Perhaps this guy will never kill someone, but just the idea that he has that kind of advantage over me and most folks who don't carry a concealed weapon is frightening. So if a cop has been trained to unload when confronted by a felon, I can see why.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: zarus tathra on August 26, 2014, 02:02:43 PM
According to a sizable group of eyewitnesses (http://nypost.com/2014/08/19/witnesses-say-ferguson-teen-attacked-cop-before-shooting/), Michael Brown was kicking the shit out of the cop and bum-rushing him before he was shot. I don't remember seeing this mentioned ANYWHERE in this thread, which is insane.

Somehow even the medical examiner hired to look over this case hasn't inspected the cop for injuries, the amount of selective blindness is insane.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: josephpalazzo on August 26, 2014, 03:03:07 PM
According to a sizable group of eyewitnesses (http://nypost.com/2014/08/19/witnesses-say-ferguson-teen-attacked-cop-before-shooting/), Michael Brown was kicking the shit out of the cop and bum-rushing him before he was shot. I don't remember seeing this mentioned ANYWHERE in this thread, which is insane.

Somehow even the medical examiner hired to look over this case hasn't inspected the cop for injuries, the amount of selective blindness is insane.

That wasn't mentioned before because it hasn't been confirmed. The article you've linked says a "dozen witnesses" but no mention who they are. Secondly, the reporting in which the article gives details are from two "friends", who are not eyewitnesses but friends of the cop, one of them, "Josie — who said she heard the version from Wilson’s girlfriend  reporting", IOW, she is reporting hearsay. Now, I'm not saying the facts are wrong, just that they are unconfirmed.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Shiranu on August 26, 2014, 03:35:08 PM
Eyewitness reports also hold almost no legal weight and are almost useless in court. Surely someone as politically savvy as yourself zarus should know this.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: zarus tathra on August 26, 2014, 04:27:24 PM
I know that eyewitness reports are useless. But seriously, a cursory examination of the cop (or his medical records, if he didn't have skull fractures he should have healed by now) should clear up the whole matter. If there aren't any injuries, then the pd are liars and the riots are justified. If the injuries are anywhere near as bad as they say they are, then nobody will stand up for the rioters and they'll disperse if they have any intelligence at all.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Shiranu on August 26, 2014, 05:06:32 PM
1. It's not FPD saying he is injured, it is idiots online and Fox News (and other conservative outlets).

http://aattp.org/cnn-host-slams-fox-for-reporting-false-story-about-darren-wilsons-eye-socket-injury-video-2/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2731311/Police-officer-shot-Michael-Brown-did-NOT-suffer-broken-eye-socket-did-hospital-swollen-face-deadly-altercation.html

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/170455-cnn-report-source-denies-fractured-eye-socket-injury-darren-wilson/

His face was reportedly swollen, but there is nothing out of FPD or the hospital saying he had any broken bones or any serious injuries. So I would take the, "The cop was beaten nearly to death" with a grain of salt.

As for baron or w/e...

Let's assume he hit the cop; the last bullet to hit him was most likely in the head, after he had walked away. The bullet wounds are consistent with him having surrendered and in a non-threatening position 4+ feet away. That is execution, pure and simple.

And yeah, I'm sure race (or more accurately imo, socio-economics) doesn't come into it at all..

(http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1219/2592/original.jpg?w=600&h)

Wilson also did not report the incident nor attempted to resuscitate Brown, who's body (according to the autopsy) was left in the street for several hours before it was collected. Is that really the way you expect police officers to behave, because if it is please ship your ass back to Aussie land as soon as possible.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: josephpalazzo on August 26, 2014, 05:31:07 PM
Those articles are just reporting that the claim, made by Fox News on the cop's injury, wasn't properly investigated. The only report so far that may have any credibility is from the Police chief who said that Wilson was hospitalized and treated for a swollen face.  It's best to wait for the grand jury.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: zarus tathra on August 26, 2014, 06:00:57 PM
It would be strange for a hospital to release anything as private and official as medical records without some kind of court order. Doing it just to appease the crowd would be a pretty slippery first step towards mob rule.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on August 26, 2014, 07:13:20 PM
I worked with some pretty cool African Americans in Boston,perhaps they got off their asses and achieved something instead of making excuses.

Are you saying whitefellas are exempt from poverty in the USA?
It's statements like these that make you such a target for ridicule. Whites are on the average more well-off than blacks in this country. It's an important determiner of whether or not you die by gunshot, because the poorer you are, the more likely you are to live in a poor area, which predisposes you to be the perpetrator or victim of gunfire. If you do not correct for this, your statistic is misleading.

Seriously, this should be bleeding obvious to you. But then, you wouldn't be part of the Comedy Show if you weren't hopelessly oblivious.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: PickelledEggs on August 26, 2014, 07:17:10 PM
Maybe baronovort is not as smart as he seems? Not that he seemed too smart to begin with..

Sent from your mom

Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: zarus tathra on August 27, 2014, 06:54:45 AM
No intelligent response, therefore revert to sarcasm. Seems like you're having difficulties with the whole "thinking" process.

Do you not see how presumptuous it is to expect others to risk their lives, to face their deaths "without fear," simply out of a sense of "duty?" Why does the statement that cops shouldn't be taught to fear their surroundings deserve anything but scorn?
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Icarus on August 27, 2014, 07:29:44 AM
Do you not see how presumptuous it is to expect others to risk their lives, to face their deaths "without fear," simply out of a sense of "duty?" Why does the statement that cops shouldn't be taught to fear their surroundings deserve anything but scorn?

"If cops are trained to constantly fear their conditions, then the people who live under them are going to fear them."
and
"Yeah we should train them to be like samurai and not fear death. Make them sit under waterfalls for hours on end and have them duck under a swinging sword as their final test before graduation."
Are two very different things, you chose to misinterpret what Brian said because you have problems understanding words, as you showed in your other thread about trying to redefine words. The other option to having cops constantly fearing their conditions is not to train them to face all situations without fear, that should be obvious. You train cops to be wary but aware that the people they're dealing with are humans who live in their community. 
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: zarus tathra on August 27, 2014, 07:32:32 AM
Sounds like a "philosophy" that's very prone to contradiction, not to mention that it's just a "humanized" version of the presumptuous sense of "duty" I said was stupid.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Icarus on August 27, 2014, 07:35:32 AM
Sounds like a "philosophy" that's very prone to contradiction.

Elaborate, otherwise that's just an empty statement designed to avoid providing an intelligent response, just like sarcasm.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: zarus tathra on August 27, 2014, 07:38:38 AM
I don't have to say anything more. Your basic assumption that they shouldn't have any fear of their surroundings is stupid enough.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Icarus on August 27, 2014, 07:40:08 AM
I don't have to say anything more. Your basic assumption that they shouldn't have any fear of their surroundings is stupid enough.

When did I say that? Please quote me on it. I know I did say they have to be "wary" which does not mean without fear. Seriously, buy a dictionary, read it.

This in an internet forum where what we type is available to view at any time, outright lying to try and feel as though you've 'won' an argument is ridiculous.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: zarus tathra on August 27, 2014, 11:42:58 AM
I'm really insulting the very idea that people should both trust other people to risk their lives for them and expect them to do so without error or hesitation. For me, it's more of a general philosophical statement.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on August 27, 2014, 04:56:30 PM
It's not like we put police cadets through extensive training to be able to make these kinds of snap decisions reliably. Nosir.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: aitm on August 27, 2014, 06:58:38 PM
You train cops to be wary but aware that the people they're dealing with are humans who live in their community. 

You do not need to train people that they are dealing with humans, nor do you need to train police to be wary...the uniform already does that. The problem, in my humble opinion, is that people expect people wearing a uniform to not have anxiety and confusion and very real f-ing fear. When a cop points a gun at you, I am very confident that the vast majority of those cops who have ever done such, are pretty afraid as well.

"I am going to bow up my chest and tell the cop to fuck off" is the very first sign that while not a Darwin winner, the soon to be possibly dead thinks that the person wearing a uniform is somehow immune from making a bad decision.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: stromboli on August 27, 2014, 07:52:58 PM
I'm pretty sure that your average cop is not a psychologist or rocket scientist that got bored with it and decided to wear a badge. I worked enough with cops as a firefighter to know that a share of them are little more than schoolyard bullies now become adults. Big cities that can afford police academies and can hire highly trained officers are more than matched by cities or towns that do little more than on the job training. And cops are part of a system that insists they watch each other's backs and don't betray secrets or mistakes.

I treat cops with respect because to do otherwise is stupid. I do not know the circumstances with Wilson or Michael Brown, but I know enough to be courteous and not give them a reason to be hostile to me. I think that elements of racism are involved, but Brown may certainly have done something to elevate the situation. Too bad, either way.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on August 27, 2014, 07:55:19 PM
To some extent, the job description of the police officer is to put up with the public's bullshit and stupidity to some extent. The fact that we have jaywalking laws in the first place is to do just that. Jaywalking poses much greater risk to the person who is jaywalking than to the cars that would hit them, yet it is the jaywalker that gets the fine. So, yeah. Putting up with the public's stupidity is part of the job. As such, the police officer is the responsible person on the scene to resolve any incident in a peaceful manner. Hell, police officers are expected to bring in murderers and rapists alive and unharmed if possible — if they find an escaped murderer holed up somewhere and he surrenders immediately, that murderer does not face summary execution even if the police know that he killed someone while on the run.

If a police officer has to shoot to resolve a jaywalking incident, then something has gone horribly wrong. As the person on scene with responsibility for what happened, Officer Darren Wilson bears responsibility for his bad decision.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: zarus tathra on August 27, 2014, 08:49:17 PM
And sometimes there are people who are just assholes asking to be shot. Ever think of that?
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Icarus on August 27, 2014, 08:54:49 PM
You do not need to train people that they are dealing with humans, nor do you need to train police to be wary...the uniform already does that. The problem, in my humble opinion, is that people expect people wearing a uniform to not have anxiety and confusion and very real f-ing fear. When a cop points a gun at you, I am very confident that the vast majority of those cops who have ever done such, are pretty afraid as well.

"I am going to bow up my chest and tell the cop to fuck off" is the very first sign that while not a Darwin winner, the soon to be possibly dead thinks that the person wearing a uniform is somehow immune from making a bad decision.

I think that depends on the person. To some people, yes it's common sense; to others, not so much. Military personnel (correct me if I'm wrong) are trained to point their gun at a target they're intending to shoot. Cops tend to have a bad habit of pointing their gun at protesters and civilians (from what I've seen in pictures and heard about in the media), the problem being the officers are viewing people of their community as a threat. I'm not saying they  should not have their gun drawn or view people as a potential threat. I just think that a cop can raise his gun a few inches and shoot before the potential threat makes a move to suggest he/she is a real threat (reaching quickly for a gun). If their reaction time doesn't allow for that, they shouldn't be a cop.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: aitm on August 27, 2014, 09:08:33 PM
Unfortunately the people best suited to be police officers rarely want to be police officers
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Shiranu on August 27, 2014, 10:09:00 PM
And sometimes there are people who are just assholes asking to be shot. Ever think of that?

Oh, that makes it okay then.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: zarus tathra on August 27, 2014, 11:20:02 PM
It kind of does, IMO.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on August 28, 2014, 12:49:50 AM
Your opinion is worth very little.

Contrary to what you may believe, the job of the police officer is not to shoot people. His job is to keep the public order. Sometimes that necessitates shooting some people, but it's not actually part of the job and is near the bottom of the list of desirable outcomes.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: zarus tathra on August 28, 2014, 01:31:30 AM
Quote
Your opinion is worth very little.

Oh okay. I guess I'll just go away now. Because that's what people on the Internet do, they passively accept what other people say without any argument.

Quote
Contrary to what you may believe, the job of the police officer is not to shoot people. His job is to keep the public order. Sometimes that necessitates shooting some people, but it's not actually part of the job and is near the bottom of the list of desirable outcomes.

I know. But there is always a most probable outcome given any given configuration of circumstances.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Icarus on August 28, 2014, 07:56:36 AM
Oh okay. I guess I'll just go away now. Because that's what people on the Internet do, they passively accept what other people say without any argument.

Not really, you deny what people say without any argument and lie in an attempt to look intelligent. The internet is full of wackos.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on August 28, 2014, 08:38:16 AM
I know. But there is always a most probable outcome given any given configuration of circumstances.
Even if you assume some scuffle occurred, once Michael Brown was down with a bullet in his body, any danger to Officer Wilson's life was over (if there were any danger in the first place). It is then incumbent upon Officer Wilson to render aid. He did not. Apparently, there was no attempt to call an ambulance or even report that he had shot a man who is now dying in the street by Officer Wilson. If he had, Brown might have survived —perhaps a little wiser— instead of bleeding out and dying in the street.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: josephpalazzo on August 28, 2014, 09:35:05 AM

 I think that elements of racism are involved, but Brown may certainly have done something to elevate the situation. Too bad, either way.

To me, it looks more and more of a case where a young kid, looking like an adult due to his height and weight, acted out (the video of the incident in the convenient store is a good indication of the mental state this kid had) and a cop who lost his nerves. It's too bad that it was framed from the get-go by the media as racism. This kind of sensationalism is not conducive to find real solutions so that such incidents are not repeated in the future.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: doorknob on August 28, 2014, 10:40:59 AM
I believe there is some racism in the way that police profile people around them. Right or wrong that's pretty much how it is around here. I've also been profiled for being white in a black neighbor hood where drugs are purchased regularly. To them I didn't belong there. Which they were right that time I didn't belong there and I was up to no good.

racism seems like it's impossible to get away from. As long as we have different races for what ever reason there will be racism.

Was this cop being racist? I have no idea. But regardless he shot a civilian that to the best of our knowledge was not a threat. I think he panicked after words I doubt he intentionally let the kid bleed out. Still he should have been trained in what to do after shooting some one. Yes he should have called an ambulance not stand around doing nothing. At the very least he should receive punishment for negligence.though I agree he needs more charges than that. The rest of the story we'll never truly know since we weren't there.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Hydra009 on August 28, 2014, 10:43:36 AM
Even if you assume some scuffle occurred, once Michael Brown was down with a bullet in his body, any danger to Officer Wilson's life was over (if there were any danger in the first place).
Allegedly, it was "more than a couple" bullets as well.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Shiranu on August 29, 2014, 12:46:40 AM
Allegedly, it was "more than a couple" bullets as well.

The autoposy showed 6; two in the head, 3 in the arm and one I believe in the shoulder.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: zarus tathra on August 29, 2014, 01:27:44 AM
It's possible for people to keep going after they've been shot.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Hydra009 on August 29, 2014, 01:55:46 AM
It's possible for people to keep going after they've been shot.
He was probably still resisting arrest as he was on the ground bleeding to death.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on August 29, 2014, 05:06:32 AM
I haven't posted for awhile because there's just to much stupidity going on, but I'm compelled to point a few things out I've seen and been involved in personally and because this is a very racist nation where nobody has the balls to come right out and say they are afraid of black people.
I have been caught up in a 'drug sweep' in a black neighborhood where cops aimed guns at EVERYONE out on the streets including kids, old folks, mothers and children simply for being outside in that neighborhood. Everyone they caught, including me went to jail that day and only one person out of about 30 had any drugs.
I've been to court and have seen a black guy, charged with the very same offense as me with the same record sent directly to jail for 30 days while I was released on OR..
Nearly ALL of my black friends have been or are in prison today and I have a lot of black friends. I personally know 4 guys right here at the YMCA who have been shot by police.
Nearly ALL of my white friends are in denial that black people are treated differently, but that's par for the course. Out of sight out of mind.
Police and courts have a huge financial stake in all this because all they have to do is claim they suspect any money or assets you have came from illegal activity and they can take it all without even having to make an arrest and they know most black people can't afford attorneys so it's as simple as picking THE LOW HANGING FRUIT..
https://www.aclu.org/policing-for-profit?web_acluaction_131029_policing
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Solitary on August 29, 2014, 09:39:02 AM
If you steal from a shop then jaywalk with your ill gotten gains then assault a cop who tells you to get off the road resulting in his firearm discharging inside the Police car don't whinge to me if the cop shoots you.

As for the anti gun bigots consider these facts-
Of course the leftist gun grabbers are silent on which race has the highest homicide rate, did the Chicago gun laws work?
They didn't work because all they had to do is get them in another city, which they do.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Solitary on August 29, 2014, 09:45:14 AM
I haven't posted for awhile because there's just to much stupidity going on, but I'm compelled to point a few things out I've seen and been involved in personally and because this is a very racist nation where nobody has the balls to come right out and say they are afraid of black people.
I have been caught up in a 'drug sweep' in a black neighborhood where cops aimed guns at EVERYONE out on the streets including kids, old folks, mothers and children simply for being outside in that neighborhood. Everyone they caught, including me went to jail that day and only one person out of about 30 had any drugs.
I've been to court and have seen a black guy, charged with the very same offense as me with the same record sent directly to jail for 30 days while I was released on OR..
Nearly ALL of my black friends have been or are in prison today and I have a lot of black friends. I personally know 4 guys right here at the YMCA who have been shot by police.
Nearly ALL of my white friends are in denial that black people are treated differently, but that's par for the course. Out of sight out of mind.
Police and courts have a huge financial stake in all this because all they have to do is claim they suspect any money or assets you have came from illegal activity and they can take it all without even having to make an arrest and they know most black people can't afford attorneys so it's as simple as picking THE LOW HANGING FRUIT..
https://www.aclu.org/policing-for-profit?web_acluaction_131029_policing
Welcome back APA! Good post. Solitary
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Hydra009 on August 29, 2014, 01:07:44 PM
I haven't posted for awhile because there's just to much stupidity going on, but I'm compelled to point a few things out I've seen and been involved in personally and because this is a very racist nation where nobody has the balls to come right out and say they are afraid of black people.
Racism is a big part of it.  But there is also the major problem of police brutality/excessive force.  It's ridiculous that an organization set up and paid for by the people to protect the people from harm all too often beats them up or kills them completely unnecessarily.  And the worst part is that this thuggish behavior often goes unpunished.  I could mess up a pizza and get fired tomorrow but these people could gun down an unarmed person and go on paid vacation.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on August 29, 2014, 02:00:22 PM
The thing is Hydra is these war toys police deploy are almost always used in black neighborhoods AS IF white people never riot needlessly or are no threat.. During the Bundy ranch fiasco the war toys were not used and those white people WERE a direct threat to police, but the local police were fine and dandy with the Bundy gang aiming automatic weapons at law enforcement officials..
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on August 29, 2014, 02:05:19 PM
Quote
The NRA continues to prove to be a group of terrible human beings. Here's what the NRA Women twitter account piped up with on Wednesday while the rest of American media was showing videotape of a presumably now-traumatized 9-year-old girl losing control of a fully automatic Uzi before spraying her tourist-friendly "instructor" with bullets, killing him.
"7 Ways Children Can Have Fun at the Shooting Range" via @TeamWON. READ: http://www.womensoutdoornews.com/...
— @NRAWomen
The tweet was deleted about an afterwards; the article linked to is a look at various products meant to make shooting at things more fun for small kids, such as targets shaped like animals or zombies or targets with bright colors or things that explode when you shoot them. You know, kid stuff. They do note, parents, that with the exploding targets you "do need to be extra careful."

So smooth work yet again, NRA. And hey, technically you did hold off until the body was cold—we might even count that as an improvement over your past work.
From daily kos
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Hydra009 on August 29, 2014, 02:44:37 PM
The thing is Hydra is these war toys police deploy are almost always used in black neighborhoods AS IF white people never riot needlessly or are no threat.. During the Bundy ranch fiasco the war toys were not used and those white people WERE a direct threat to police, but the local police were fine and dandy with the Bundy gang aiming automatic weapons at law enforcement officials..
They tend to give a wide berth to the gun nuts.  I remember well how gingerly the Teabaggers were treated and how badly the Occupy Wallstreet protesters were treated.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Solitary on August 29, 2014, 03:00:41 PM
Good point!
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Solitary on August 29, 2014, 03:13:47 PM
Am I the only one that is glad APA is back?  He's one of the more street savvy than anyone here, including me, and has a great sense of humor! Come on people, this is the kind of people we want here. Solitary
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Shiranu on August 29, 2014, 03:18:10 PM
Quote
During the Bundy ranch fiasco the war toys were not used and those white people WERE a direct threat to police, but the local police were fine and dandy with the Bundy gang aiming automatic weapons at law enforcement officials..

Honestly hadn't thought about that. Consider this as well...

How did the Bundy situation get resolved? The government stood back and said, "Fine, you win! Here is the land, and don't worry about the cattle.".

Imagine how things would escalate if African Americans in Fergeson were armed... suddenly the narrative would have been that "armed gangs of looters and 'opposing' gangsters banded together to cause social unrest" and suddenly we would be getting videos and articles about how they had once stole a piece of gum from a store or jaywalked across the street thus making them all menaces to society. The only logical solution would be that they would HAVE to use force against them.

Finally, it reminds me of California when the Black Panther's said... "Wait a minute, white people are walking around protesting with with guns, threatening black voters and communities and Regan says that's okay. Well, then we should carry guns to!".

Soon as they started carrying guns to protests Regan's narrative quickly changed from, "Guns are a man's god-given-right!" to (and I quote), “There’s no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons.”".
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Solitary on August 29, 2014, 03:32:25 PM
SmoOn All I have to say about race, is that I don't like hatred directed to me because I am white---which has happened to me--- and because of this I know it is wrong to do it to others, Generalizing traits of races is not logical, and when we do we become racists because of a few idiots. People are people, and we are all in the same boat that is sinking, and if we don't help each other we are doomed. I'm not so stupid I think racism is not a two edged sword that cuts both ways. We all need to grow up and be adults that take responsibility for our actions instead of blaming others. Solitary
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on August 29, 2014, 03:41:23 PM
Responsibility? Bah! Everyone knows since we're not as rich as the Koch's we've never worked hard enough and thus we're irresponsible and get along and stop blaming? Ha! That goes against everything the flag stands for, blaming everyone but yourself! Get with the program people! Nothing bad that's ever happened in your life is YOUR FAULT! It's THOSE PEOPLE'S FAULT!
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on August 29, 2014, 03:44:44 PM
Am I the only one that is glad APA is back?  He's one of the more street savvy than anyone here, including me, and has a great sense of humor! Come on people, this is the kind of people we want here. Solitary
Be careful what you wish for pardner.. According to Nam over at wwgha I'm a sock puppet which may be true.. I think someone in my family somewhere has the last name of Haines..
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Solitary on August 29, 2014, 04:17:46 PM
I read about your relatives in James Joyce's Ulysses. Solitary
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: DunkleSeele on August 29, 2014, 05:16:15 PM
Be careful what you wish for pardner.. According to Nam over at wwgha I'm a sock puppet which may be true.. I think someone in my family somewhere has the last name of Haines..
Never mind Nam, he's banned.

Oh, and I'm also glad you're back. Hope you'll stay!
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on August 29, 2014, 05:20:44 PM
I read about your relatives in James Joyce's Ulysses. Solitary
Oh yeah? Was my grandfather the baseball catcher in it?

I just had a thought..how about taking all young children to these gun crazy ranges and handing them automatic UZI's and let them rid the world of those fucks? Of course I jest, but I'd feel a little safer every time I read gun fails of the dumb fucks accidentally shooting themselves..
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on August 29, 2014, 05:22:53 PM
Never mind Nam, he's banned.

Oh, and I'm also glad you're back. Hope you'll stay!
Might have contributed to my return.. Am I allowed to call him an asshole?
*Gasp! I may have already! *
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: DunkleSeele on August 29, 2014, 05:30:16 PM
Might have contributed to my return.. Am I allowed to call him an asshole?
*Gasp! I may have already! *
An asshole? You're too kind... ;)
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on August 29, 2014, 06:09:58 PM
Am I the only one that is glad APA is back?
No.

Welcome back, APA.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on August 29, 2014, 06:37:38 PM
Gee..I feel like it's my birthday or something.. Was I elected to something important while I was away?
This is getting creepy now folks.. :lol:
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Jmpty on August 29, 2014, 07:04:22 PM
Don't worry, APA, I still think that you're a worthless reprobate.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: aitm on August 29, 2014, 07:28:05 PM
 who the fuck let APA back in? He smells funny.... 
 :flowers:
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Hydra009 on August 30, 2014, 01:01:31 PM
A Missouri cop who pointed his gun at protestors and threatened to kill a guy allegedly in his way has resigned. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/29/ray-albers-fired-ferguson_n_5737822.html)  (He was given the choice to resign or be fired)

He "drew his gun after seeing what he believed to be a BB gun in the crowd (http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/st-ann-officer-removed-after-pointing-gun-threatening-ferguson-protesters/article_3854ed72-a14c-5b8e-b32f-ddb35de94803.html)".  Then he pointed his rifle at various protestors with a sweeping motion.  I guess that's sign language for "I'm here to protect you".  Eventually, another officer got him to lower his rifle.

There's also a couple of other officers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ferguson_unrest#Ray_Albers) with a similarly checkered behavior who have "retired" in recent days.  They seem like such nice people that it'll be a shame to see them go.
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on August 30, 2014, 01:18:31 PM
Don't worry, APA, I still think that you're a worthless reprobate.
Well that's reassuring.. :lol:
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: Solitary on August 30, 2014, 03:01:35 PM
Aren't you glad yo came back with a new suit of armor?  :winkle: Solitary
Title: Re: All Darren Wilson Does is Win
Post by: zarus tathra on September 04, 2014, 02:55:41 PM
They tend to give a wide berth to the gun nuts.  I remember well how gingerly the Teabaggers were treated and how badly the Occupy Wallstreet protesters were treated.

Occupy protests seemed like they were designed to be as obtrusive as possible without going over the edge. Blocking off roads, camping in parks, etc. Tea Party protests tended to be scheduled in advance and on property that was designed to be used by lots of people. Even Bundy's big stand was on open space, while the Ferguson riots involve lots of looting and burning and smashing of bus stops and stuff. I'm sure that if the Bundy crew marched through Ferguson brandishing ar-15's they'd be declaring martial law by now, but militia guys seem for the most part to be smarter than that.