Atheistforums.com

Humanities Section => Political/Government General Discussion => Topic started by: zarus tathra on August 22, 2014, 12:48:44 AM

Title: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: zarus tathra on August 22, 2014, 12:48:44 AM
Democracy - Rule by the majority. People keep saying that this or that thing is democratic/undemocratic, so the only way to make the word make sense again is to give it its original, classical meaning.

Civil rights - Equal treatment for equal behaviour. Or at least that's my definition. If you have some other version of "civil rights" that you want to promote, then I don't want to hear about it.

A bunch of words that are constantly thrown around that no one seems to want to define:

Fairness, equality, social justice, freedom
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: Hydra009 on August 22, 2014, 01:26:27 AM
Democracy - "rule of the people", a form of government in which political power is wielded directly by citizens or through elected representatives.

(Can but does not necessarily require an absolute majority vote, since a plurality voting system is possible under this form of government)

Civil rights - rights belonging to an individual by virtue of citizenship.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: DunkleSeele on August 22, 2014, 02:03:25 AM
that's my definition. If you have some other version of "civil rights" that you want to promote, then I don't want to hear about it.

And then you wonder why people aren't interested in participating in your threads.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: PickelledEggs on August 22, 2014, 08:56:34 AM
And then you wonder why people aren't interested in participating in your threads.


:lol:

Sent from your mom

Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: doorknob on August 22, 2014, 10:05:09 AM
scientific theory not the same as laymen term theory. I'm tired of idiots saying " well that's just a theory." No you idiot it's not! So tired of it.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: Hydra009 on August 22, 2014, 10:31:58 AM
scientific theory not the same as laymen term theory. I'm tired of idiots saying " well that's just a theory." No you idiot it's not! So tired of it.
I'm also sick of "scientists say that ___ but I say ____" like it's just your word against theirs.  There's a body of data that leads scientists to their conclusion.  Unless you can take that data and build an alternate conclusion at least as well-supported as the prevailing one, you're outta luck.  Creationists are particularly infuriating because they disagree with evolution, trot out a couple dodgy arguments, and call it a day.  That might work in church, but in academia, it's like sticking the chalk up your nose and making fart noises.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: zarus tathra on August 22, 2014, 02:26:03 PM
And then you wonder why people aren't interested in participating in your threads.

Because they habitually come up with one-sided, deliberately obscured interpretations of buzzwords that are designed specifically to appease the half-educated?
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: Jmpty on August 22, 2014, 03:37:20 PM
Because they habitually come up with one-sided, deliberately obscured interpretations of buzzwords that are designed specifically to appease the half-educated?

Yes, that is exactly what you do.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: Solitary on August 22, 2014, 03:43:31 PM
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on August 22, 2014, 05:20:28 PM
If you want the definitions of words, you might want to invest in one of these:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/d/d1/20130603004233!Dictionary_Icon.png)
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: zarus tathra on August 22, 2014, 05:38:47 PM
Dictionaries don't work when people start throwing around terms like "freedom" and "democracy" and "equality" that have basically nothing to do with the dictionary definition.

Quote
Yes, that is exactly what you do.

I generally try to avoid using terms that are very popular among the propagandists of all persuasions. i.e. "rule of law," "freedom," "capitalism," "revolution/revolutionary," etc. If you go over my posting history you'll find that I use them only so that I can mock them.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on August 22, 2014, 08:46:40 PM
Zarus, each of the words you cite does have a legitimate and specific definition and use, and as such useful terminology if used correctly. If someone isn't using them correctly, call them out on it. But don't think that everyone who uses these terms is automatically engaged in propaganda.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: zarus tathra on August 22, 2014, 11:04:57 PM
When 80% of the uses are abuses, then that poisons the well too much. And "equality" is too vague of a term to be acceptable in politics. Maybe it's acceptable as a quasi-religious concept, since politics is never very far from religion, but it's useless as a political economic concept, at least as it's commonly "known."
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on August 23, 2014, 06:55:25 AM
You made those statistics up.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: DunkleSeele on August 23, 2014, 08:56:10 AM
Because they habitually come up with one-sided, deliberately obscured interpretations of buzzwords that are designed specifically to appease the half-educated?
Thank you very much for confirming what I told you in this and other threads.

By the way, I find it extremely hypocritical of you to accuse others of making up definitions and then say "this is MY definition and I don't care about yours". Then again, your hypocrisy has been demonstrated already long ago.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: SGOS on August 23, 2014, 10:43:01 AM
By the way, I find it extremely hypocritical of you to accuse others of making up definitions and then say "this is MY definition and I don't care about yours". Then again, your hypocrisy has been demonstrated already long ago.
Everyone that's been following this thread must have thought the same thing.  It's odd that no one brought it up until now.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: zarus tathra on August 23, 2014, 10:44:44 AM
At least I'm attempting to define my terms. I don't really want to define them permanently, but people should at least define them for the sake of individual discussions.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: Icarus on August 23, 2014, 11:04:40 AM
At least I'm attempting to define my terms. I don't really want to define them permanently, but people should at least define them for the sake of individual discussions.

The English language is confusing enough, we don't need people to come up with new meanings for words that differ from the actual definition. Broaden your vocabulary and you wont need to come up with new definitions, a word or combination of words probably already exists that allows you to express exactly what you want to communicate.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: the_antithesis on August 23, 2014, 11:10:11 AM
I'd say overused is a tad overused these days.

Get over yourselves, kids.

The whole world isn't here for you.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: The Skeletal Atheist on August 23, 2014, 11:14:19 AM
And then you wonder why people aren't interested in participating in your threads.
Well that and he's an undeserving smug asshole with some weird hate boner for the poor.

I'll be honest: when I come across a Zarus thread I don't seriously reply most of the time because it's a waste of time. Every thread of his is "I'm right, you're wrong. I'm not going to attempt to adequately express why I'm right because I'm above you".  I'm not going to give him any respect because he doesn't give any one else respect.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: PickelledEggs on August 23, 2014, 12:36:24 PM
Well that and he's an undeserving smug asshole with some weird hate boner for the poor.

I'll be honest: when I come across a Zarus thread I don't seriously reply most of the time because it's a waste of time. Every thread of his is "I'm right, you're wrong. I'm not going to attempt to adequately express why I'm right because I'm above you".  I'm not going to give him any respect because he doesn't give any one else respect.
I rarely ever agree with you, skeletal, but I do with this.
(and by rarely, I mean a lot of the time, but that's just MY definition of the word)
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: PickelledEggs on August 23, 2014, 12:39:54 PM
Usually when I want to know what something means, I look it up in the dictionary.

It's pretty straight forward when it's already written down for you. Plus you don't have to go through the work of coming up with pompous definitions of your own.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: zarus tathra on August 24, 2014, 05:19:06 AM
Like I said, any term can be meaningful when you're talking about political theology, but terms quickly become meaningless when you get down to the details.

Again, let's take a favorite here, "equality." I get what it means on an abstract level. What's problematic is figuring out what it means in execution. Do you mean equal outcomes? No? Then how about "equal opportunity?" What does that mean in practice? Does that mean that everybody gets the same (inevitably second-rate, mediocre) level of education? Does it mean that kids are taken from their parents so that kids with wealthy, smart parents don't get a leg up over kids with stupid, poor, abusive parents? etc. etc. etc.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: Icarus on August 24, 2014, 07:26:42 AM
Like I said, any term can be meaningful when you're talking about political theology, but terms quickly become meaningless when you get down to the details.

Again, let's take a favorite here, "equality." I get what it means on an abstract level. What's problematic is figuring out what it means in execution. Do you mean equal outcomes? No? Then how about "equal opportunity?" What does that mean in practice? Does that mean that everybody gets the same (inevitably second-rate, mediocre) level of education? Does it mean that kids are taken from their parents so that kids with wealthy, smart parents don't get a leg up over kids with stupid, poor, abusive parents? etc. etc. etc.

Well you've completely forgotten context, no wonder you're having problems understanding what words mean. Use equality in a sentence or paragraph and the term becomes much less ambiguous. This is vocabulary 101.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: Jmpty on August 24, 2014, 10:19:04 AM
So, here's the deal. I have no problem with people who aren't very smart. It's not their fault. I do have a problem with people who aren't very smart, who THINK that they are very smart, and want to show other people how smart they are.. That gets annoying very fast. #Zarustathra.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: the_antithesis on August 24, 2014, 10:31:25 AM
...

You still haven't figured out we don't give a shit?

Christ, you're thick.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: zarus tathra on August 24, 2014, 12:14:35 PM
If you don't give a shit, then why are you here?

Quote
So, here's the deal. I have no problem with people who aren't very smart. It's not their fault. I do have a problem with people who aren't very smart, who THINK that they are very smart, and want to show other people how smart they are.. That gets annoying very fast. #Zarustathra.

I don't care how smart or un-smart you think I am. All I want is a little semantic discipline from people who want to pontificate about why their political theories are best.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: the_antithesis on August 24, 2014, 12:33:47 PM
If you don't give a shit, then why are you here?

Because you're shitting in our yard again.

Knock it off.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: the_antithesis on August 24, 2014, 12:36:05 PM
All I want is a little semantic discipline from people who want to pontificate about why their political theories are best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PivWY9wn5ps

People think you are a twat because you act like a twat.

If you do not want people to dismiss everything you say because you are a twat, stop acting like a twat.

Take your meds and learn some social skills.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: zarus tathra on August 24, 2014, 12:57:29 PM
Omg I don't want to be a twat you are so right
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: the_antithesis on August 24, 2014, 01:20:11 PM
Omg I don't want to be a twat you are so right

This is what happens when amateurs try to use sarcasm.

You're not liked, kid.

You are just a tiresome attention whore who occasionally posts uninteresting posts on topics no one cares about which would be easily ignorable if you were also an arrogant prick about the whole thing, which just brings you negative attention. Because when you're an attention whore, you make no distinction between positive and negative attention. Being an attention whore also means your a self-centered and unlikable shit who doesn't care if anything you post enriches anyone else's life or interests them at all. You just want people to pay attention to you. Also, being self-centered, you have already imagined that we all agreed with you and praise you for your considerable brain. So why do bother posting? You only care about what goes on in that little mind of yours and you have already imagined our response. Posting your drivel is redundant. Why bother? No one listens to you, but you don't care.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: Solitary on August 28, 2014, 12:01:42 PM
Is this section the definition of a shit storm?  :lol:
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: zarus tathra on August 28, 2014, 01:17:07 PM
This place is where the frustrated need for power, the illusion of power and influence, and the total inability to enact real change in meatspace come together. You be the judge.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: Shiranu on August 28, 2014, 02:46:52 PM
K.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on August 29, 2014, 02:33:07 PM
Eegla oogla baluugvagzitani.. Look it up.. Really! The true definition, "zarus is just full of shit."
OK, I confess.. That's MY definition and I'm sticking to it..  :music2:
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: Solitary on August 29, 2014, 03:15:38 PM
Already you are making my day, now stop it!  :lol: :pidu: :razz: Solitary
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on August 29, 2014, 06:20:19 PM
This place is where the frustrated need for power, the illusion of power and influence, and the total inability to enact real change in meatspace come together. You be the judge.
And yet, here you are.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: zarus tathra on August 29, 2014, 06:24:20 PM
I'm just baffling the men who would be king.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on August 29, 2014, 06:34:23 PM
I'm just baffling the men who would be king.
As reported on CNN BREAKING NEWS right below the plane is still missing and #BENGAZI!
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on August 29, 2014, 08:28:30 PM
I'm just baffling the men who would be king.
Oh, get over yourself, Mr. Ego.
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: Shiranu on August 30, 2014, 12:35:41 AM
I'm just baffling the men who would be king.

I guess baffling is what they call it nowadays... kids and their silly slang...
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: Hydra009 on August 30, 2014, 02:36:05 AM
I'm just baffling the men who would be king.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHAHEhhJisk
Title: Re: Let's define some basic terms that are overused and badly abused
Post by: Munch on August 30, 2014, 04:50:18 AM
I'm .. confused :(, is all this because the op wants definitions of words and won't accept different interpretations and meanings to those words?

Isn't it kind of set in stone for some words being universal, while others are simply interchangeable from a cultural basis? Isn't it better to ask others interpretation of said words if they are not so set?