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News & General Discussion => News Stories and Current Events => Topic started by: Munch on August 10, 2014, 01:57:08 PM

Title: Russia Bans Western Food
Post by: Munch on August 10, 2014, 01:57:08 PM
Well he gone done it now. Our favorite internet meme has decided to ban all western foods from importing to russia.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/07/russia-bans-western-food-imports-retaliation-ukraine-sanctions
QuoteRussians will no longer be able to buy fruit, vegetables, meat, fish or dairy products from the EU and the US, as the full scope of Moscow's food import ban became apparent on Thursday.

President Vladimir Putin told officials on Wednesday to come up with a list of western agricultural products and raw materials to be banned, in reaction to western sanctions over Russia's policies in Ukraine.

Russia's prime minister, Dmitry Medvedev, said the ban was effective immediately and would last for a year. It covers most foodstuffs from the US, the 28 EU countries, Canada, Australia and Norway.

"Until the last moment, we hoped that our foreign colleagues would realise that sanctions lead to a blind alley, and that no one benefits from them. But they didn't realise this, and now we have been forced to respond," Medvedev said.

The EU and US have sanctioned a number of Russians, including billionaires believed to be close to Putin and those actively involved in the annexing Crimea and the unrest in eastern Ukraine. After the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, which pro-Russia rebels are believed to have shot down , a number of key Russian banks were also sanctioned, cutting them off from European capital markets.

The key question is whether the import ban would hurt European producers more than Russian consumers. The Kremlin's English-language channel, Russia Today, said the food ban could spark a "crisis in Europe" and would cost billions of pounds in lost revenues.

There was less musing on the cost to ordinary Russians, who have become used to readily available imported foods.

"I am sure that our market will be filled with fresh quality Russian products, which anyway many Russians prefer to the imported ones," said Medvedev.

The agriculture minister, Nikolai Fyodorov, said more Brazilian meat and New Zealand cheese would be imported to offset the newly prohibited items. He also said Moscow was in talks with Belarus and Kazakhstan to prevent the banned western foodstuffs being exported to Russia from the two countries.

Medvedev said Russia was prepared to introduce further measures in aviation, shipbuilding and automobile sectors, but said it would do so carefully. Moscow has already floated the idea of banning European airlines from flying over Russian airspace, which could add several hours to some flights between Europe and Asia.

Russia is Europe's second-largest market for food and drink. Exports of food and raw materials to Russia were worth â,¬12.2bn (£9.7bn) in 2013, following several years of double-digit growth.

The UK is less likely to lose out. In 2013, its biggest food and drink export was £17m of frozen fish, followed by £5.7m of cheese and £5.3m of coffee.

The president of the European Central bank, Mario Draghi, said on Thursday that the Ukraine crisis was contributing to heightened geopolitical risks that are threatening the eurozone's faltering recovery. "Some of them, like the situation in Ukraine and Russia will have a greater impact on the euro area than they … have on other parts of the world," he said.

The world's second-largest bottler of Coca-Cola drinks has become the latest company to be hit by the escalating standoff between Russia and the west, along with the sportswear maker Adidas.

Coca-Cola HBC, which bottles and distributes the US company's drinks in 28 countries, said volumes would fall for the rest of the year, citing a sudden deterioration in Russia, its biggest market.

Financial markets were quick to react to Putin's tit-for-tat move. Moscow's main two share indices extended Wednesday's sharp declines, with retail and banking shares among the biggest fallers. The RTS index lost 1.9%, and the rouble-denominated Micex fell 1.5%. European indices were also weaker.

Food has already been caught up in political tensions between Russia and the west. Moscow's food safety authorities have recently banned the import of Polish fruit and vegetables, and a regional branch of the consumer protection agency Rospotrebnadzor is investigating McDonald's cheeseburgers and milkshakes.

European pork was banned at the start of the year as the Ukraine crisis escalated, cutting off 25% of all EU pig meat exports in a move that the European commission said exposed farmers to significant losses.

The EU and US stepped up punitive action against Russia last week in response to Moscow's support for eastern separatists in Ukraine, which has been unwavering despite the downing of MH17.

A Dutch rescue team had to abandon its work at the crash site on Thursday, judging that the frontline of fighting between Ukrainian forces and Russia-backed rebels was too close.

Ukrainian forces have made gains in the east in recent weeks, but at the expense of civilian casualties. The rebels are now mainly holed up in the regional centres of Donetsk and Luhansk, leaving Kiev with a dilemma of how to win back the strongholds without enormous civilian loss of life.

Russia is carrying out military exercises near the border with Ukraine this week, and there are fears that the option of a ground invasion is still on the table. Nato said earlier this week that Moscow had amassed around 20,000 troops near the border and could be planning an invasion under the guise of a humanitarian intervention.

In Kiev, there were clashes on Thursday morning as authorities attempted to clear Independence Square, known as the Maidan, of tents and protesters. The square was the centre of the protests against President Viktor Yanukovych's rule, and a small hardcore of protesters have refused to move on and have remained living in the square since Yanukovych was deposed in February.

The square was cleared by armed members of volunteer battalions which had returned from fighting the pro-Russia separatists in the east, themselves made up of former Maidan activists. The violent clashes suggest tough times ahead for Ukraine, where President Petro Poroshenko will have to deal with the presence of many armed volunteer groups when the crisis in the east is over.

While part of me feels sorry for the people in russia who are going to suffer because of russia not being able to sustain itself, the fact that so many got behind putin on so much of everything he's done, my sympathy doesn't extend that far.


And while we're on the subject.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/08/06/the-putin-butt-plug-hilarious-payback-for-those-anti-gay-laws/
Title: Re: Russia Bans Western Food
Post by: stromboli on August 10, 2014, 02:55:27 PM
All of which is indicative of how Putin puts his megalomaniac goals ahead of the welfare of the people. And no longer will the Russian peasantry hear, "you want vodka with that big Mac?
Title: Re: Russia Bans Western Food
Post by: Brian37 on August 10, 2014, 04:07:03 PM
I've heard some atheists argue that these sanctions on Russia will backfire on us and will only help Putin. Not sure I buy this. I think whatever short term gain Putin gets with his Saber rattling wont last.
Title: Re: Russia Bans Western Food
Post by: Munch on August 10, 2014, 04:28:17 PM
Quote from: Brian37 on August 10, 2014, 04:07:03 PM
I've heard some atheists argue that these sanctions on Russia will backfire on us and will only help Putin. Not sure I buy this. I think whatever short term gain Putin gets with his Saber rattling wont last.

Russia is going to be forced to look to other countries not under 'western influence' just to feed its people. I have a hard time believing russia can be self sustaining.
Title: Re: Russia Bans Western Food
Post by: stromboli on August 10, 2014, 05:37:15 PM
The Ukraine, besides being the only year round seaport for Russia, was also the breadbasket of the USSR. It has vast fields for growing crops, and is southerly enough to avoid the harsh winters. Russia has vast resources, but the climate works against above ground crops like wheat, oats and corn. that is why potatoes and beets have been staple crops for centuries. In the long run, global warming might seem to benefit them, but the warmer weather turns Siberia into a vast quagmire of peat bogs. Sort of a lose-lose scenario. Not to mention huge releases of Methane gas, which seems to already be occurring.

The Russians are frankly better at political chess than we are, imo. I don't know what the outcome will be, but a war is not to anyone's best interest.
Title: Re: Russia Bans Western Food
Post by: Solitary on August 21, 2014, 12:13:55 AM
I wonder if their bellies and cancer rates go down now?  :biggrin: Solitary
Title: Re: Russia Bans Western Food
Post by: michael on September 01, 2014, 11:46:19 AM
View from Moscow.
1. Banning food import from EU&US is another Putin's idiotism. No doubt it was not a well-prepared conterstrike. It just occurred to someone (maybe Putin himself) "Let's teach them bastards a lesson!" I imagine the discussion of these big bosses: "Yes, let's ban fruit! And fish - we have a lot of our fish! And meat - it's poisoned" "And drinks?" "No, no I like champagne!" "And whiskey!" "OK, don't ban alcohol!"
2. But still it has an effect. Primarily to gain Putin another "patriotic" support. Putin's supporters shout Yes, we did it! We punished those fucking pindos (meaning Americans) and gay-ropeans!
Next:  some food producers and farmers (for example, from Greece and Finland) are alarmed. They demand from their governments to stop sanctions and let Putin ocupy Ukraine.
Last: Putin's friends like Timchenko owning food companies can now raise prices and explain: that is because we must oppose US and EU. be patriotic, pay us more!
3. No shortages are coming. There is some agriculture in Russia. Of course, it is strange how it survived 15 Putin's years, but there is. I buy local vegetables, milk, bread, meat and so on. Fruit are imported, but there are China, Turkey, South America. Real problem can be some sorts of fish and cheese. But for these there is Belorussia. It is a country joined with Russia into so-called "Union State". It means there is no (and strictly must not be!) custom line between Belorussia and Russia. OK, now you export fruit, cheese, fish to Byelorussia, they repack it and send to Russia. I have already met shrimp "made in Belorussia". Who finds a sea in Belorussia, wins a bonus :)

So? This is only a propagandist trick. the real problem is not food import banning, but an army invasion into Ukraine. And the western countries seem to tolerate this and do nothing. Waiting Red army in Riga? Or Berlin?
Title: Re: Russia Bans Western Food
Post by: Munch on September 01, 2014, 12:24:34 PM
Putin, I wonder if people will still be making memes of him when his people are being killed off, or when his actions lead to the deaths of hundreds, if not thousands of people.

90 years a go people saw dictators for what they were, today.. its more something people make light of until a bomb drops on them.
Title: Re: Russia Bans Western Food
Post by: stromboli on September 01, 2014, 01:00:40 PM
it's pretty bad when you are making a political point by starving your people. Russia went from a totalitarian state to a dictatorship with a brief stop at democracy. Sad.
Title: Re: Russia Bans Western Food
Post by: Munch on September 01, 2014, 03:31:36 PM
The real question is, even if putin was removed from power, would it change anything now? I doubt it, I'm certain the Kremlin has more hold over the current trend of domineering and control in russia then putin alone has power over. 
Title: Re: Russia Bans Western Food
Post by: Hydra009 on September 01, 2014, 04:12:07 PM
Quote from: michael on September 01, 2014, 11:46:19 AMthe real problem is not food import banning, but an army invasion into Ukraine. And the western countries seem to tolerate this and do nothing. Waiting Red army in Riga? Or Berlin?
Well, what do you expect?  A full mobilization?  U.S. airstrikes along the Ukraine-Russian border?  Half of the people here get really distraught over any US military action anywhere, and we're talking fairly low-level and extremely one-sided engagements in recent years.  How do you think an actual war between two nuclear powers would go over?

I think we're doing about as good a call as we can do given the circumstances - sanctions on Russia, aid to Ukraine, putting diplomatic pressure on Russia to withdraw/de-escalate and encouraging other countries to do the same.

I hate these sorts of situations because you can't make a decision that everyone will be happy with.  If you don't intervene, you get accused of ignoring the problem and callously "let" Russia invade Ukraine.  And if you intervene, then every hippy this side of the Volga river acts like it was some sort of unprovoked American imperialistic plan to kick puppies and take over Ukraine's sunflower oil and 9/11 was an inside job and it's all just a NWO plot and Obama is just like Hitler!

No matter what you do, it's wrong.
Title: Re: Russia Bans Western Food
Post by: michael on September 01, 2014, 05:05:27 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on September 01, 2014, 04:12:07 PM
Well, what do you expect?  A full mobilization?  U.S. airstrikes along the Ukraine-Russian border? 

Oh, no. That wouldn't help. Just will help Putin to get real support from people. And I don't like NATO bombers over my head even to hit Putin. They sometimes miss the target :)

I mean real sanctions, not blah-blah.
They can be numerous.
Freeze assets of Putin's "friends" (his companions who really rule Russia), of his servants (like United Russia leaders and propagandists) and Putin himself. Put Putin in a blacklist (Lukashenko from Belorussia is forbidden to go to Europe and US just for some demonstrations dispersed and some opponents arrested, all of them already free - Putin is welcome after occupying part of Ukraine and starting a war???).
Stop selling armaments to Putin (I know it's about France, not US).
Do many little things like this: in Crimea former Ukrainian soccer clubs now reorganized and started playing in Russian championship. That's against all FIFA regulations, but Russian Soccer Union faces no problems. Why? Sucj little things are many, I think. In sport, cinema, research, and so on.

Title: Re: Russia Bans Western Food
Post by: michael on September 01, 2014, 05:08:48 PM
Quote from: Munch on September 01, 2014, 03:31:36 PM
The real question is, even if putin was removed from power, would it change anything now?

the answer is yes.
No guarantee that Russia goes straight to democracy. But a chance.
It is not like soviet times when there was a strong system. Now everything is based on Putin and a dozen of his friends.
Title: Re: Russia Bans Western Food
Post by: Shiranu on September 01, 2014, 05:19:30 PM
Quote from: Munch on September 01, 2014, 12:24:34 PM
Putin, I wonder if people will still be making memes of him when his people are being killed off, or when his actions lead to the deaths of hundreds, if not thousands of people.

90 years a go people saw dictators for what they were, today.. its more something people make light of until a bomb drops on them.

Yes, Charlie Chaplin's parody of Hitler in "The Great Dictator" sure was seeing Hitler for exactly what he was...

People handle shitty situations they cant change, no matter how much against it they may be, by doing what they can... laugh, cry, whatever. Don't act like there wasn't political jokes 90 years ago, and don't act like Hitler and Stalin and the like were viewed as demons in the West; it wasn't until long into their human rights violations that the West finally said, "Oh... those guys might not be the great men we thought they were".
Title: Re: Russia Bans Western Food
Post by: Hydra009 on September 01, 2014, 05:27:35 PM
Quote from: michael on September 01, 2014, 05:05:27 PMI mean real sanctions, not blah-blah.
They can be numerous.
Freeze assets of Putin's "friends" (his companions who really rule Russia), of his servants (like United Russia leaders and propagandists) and Putin himself.
They are real sanctions and a part of that was freezing the assets of a few people close to Putin (http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2014/03/20/us_freezes_assets_of_russian_businessmen_and_bank_close_to_putin).

Title: Re: Russia Bans Western Food
Post by: michael on September 03, 2014, 02:47:26 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on September 01, 2014, 05:27:35 PM
They are real sanctions and a part of that was freezing the assets of a few people close to Putin.

I must agree that US government does a little. Yes, Timchenko, Rottenberg brother and Kovalchuk had bad luck. But they are officially named businessmen, their assets are easy to find. What about Putin himself, Sechin, Chemezov, Sobianin and two Ivanovs? Don't they really have villas in Florida and accounts in Switzerland? For example, Vladimir Pekhtin, one of United Russia party leaders, owns a luxury house not far from Miami, and feels OK about it.

I realize that you personally should not be responsible for US government, as well as I am not accountable for what Putin does. But I feel what was done was not enough.

Why I say "was". It's today we have rumours here that some real pressure on Putin started.
Maybe he stops now, while our commandos control only really rebel territories in Ukraine, where large part of people would not mind.
Maybe the conflict could be frozen, and so on.
But next target is the town of Mariupol on Azov sea cost. It is in extreme Suth West, right near the border, but is also extremely pro-Ukrainian. If Putin sends troops there it can turn out to be total war, genocide and other Yugoslavia-style things.
Title: Re: Russia Bans Western Food
Post by: Hydra009 on September 03, 2014, 04:48:47 PM
Quote from: michael on September 03, 2014, 02:47:26 PMI must agree that US government does a little. Yes, Timchenko, Rottenberg brother and Kovalchuk had bad luck. But they are officially named businessmen, their assets are easy to find. What about Putin himself, Sechin, Chemezov, Sobianin and two Ivanovs? Don't they really have villas in Florida and accounts in Switzerland? For example, Vladimir Pekhtin, one of United Russia party leaders, owns a luxury house not far from Miami, and feels OK about it.
Sure.  I'd agree with freezing those assets as well.

QuoteI realize that you personally should not be responsible for US government, as well as I am not accountable for what Putin does. But I feel what was done was not enough.
Yeah, well, there is the danger of overdoing it and having an even worse disaster come out of this.  But yeah, I can get behind tougher sanctions if the situation continues to get worse.

But one thing has been bothering me about this.  You are a Russian citizen, are you not?  And living in Russia?  Because I think this is the first time I've encountered anyone pushing for economic sanctions on their own country.  Seems like a strange position to take, given how these things tend to hurt the common people more than the belligerents.