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Humanities Section => History General Discussion => Topic started by: Solitary on August 04, 2014, 11:23:37 AM

Title: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: Solitary on August 04, 2014, 11:23:37 AM
http://atheism.about.com/od/godlessamericaamericans/p/GodlessSchools.htm?nl=1
Quote

Religion in Public Schools vs. Godless Education:

One of the preeminent battlegrounds for the Christian Right’s war on modernity is America’s secular public school system. The Christian Right cannot stand the fact that instead of infusing the entire curriculum with their brand of conservative Christian principles, the government maintains a neutral stance on religion with a secular system. The godlessness of America’s public schools is an advantage, not a defect. Public schools should be secular, not extensions of religious institutions.

Godless History:

In secular public schools, history is taught from a godless perspective. Events in history are not “explained” as miracles or interventions of gods. The course of history is not described as the expression of divine will and leading to the culmination of any divine plans. Instead, events in history are described as the actions of humans; the course of history is described as the outgrowth of human actions and human institutions. Human history is a human affair, godless and naturalistic.

Godless Science:

Modern science has done more than any other aspect of modernity to undermine traditional religious beliefs about the nature of the universe. Science need not conflict with religion, but it does conflict with many traditional religious doctrines. For this reason, religious conservatives attack the godlessness of modern science education â€" especially when it comes to evolution and the biological sciences. Science is necessarily naturalistic and thus only a godless science works. Read More...

Godless Sports:

Many religious leaders try to use public school locker rooms as venues for evangelization; coaches abuse their authority over students and their positions as employees of the state to promote their religious beliefs. All of this is wrong: sports in public schools should be a secular affair, without reliance upon or reference to gods. Individuals students are free of course to believe in gods, but the sports programs of public schools must be secular and godless.

Godless Health and Sex Education:

Many religious conservatives seek to smuggle their doctrines into public schools through courses on health and sex education. They hope, for example, that students will be taught that abstinence is the only safe way to prevent pregnancy and disease, leaving them without information on contraceptives. This is a serious mistake: a secular health education program will give students all the correct information, even if it contradicts some people’s religious beliefs.

Religious Studies in Public Schools:

Can godless, secular public schools teach about religion? Yes, but they may be not be permitted to do so. Godlessness does not mean ignorance of religion and a secular program about religion must be objective, fair, and neutral. No religions can be presented as true, no religions can be presented as more right than any other. With all religions, skeptical and critical information must be included. This is unacceptable to True Believers who want their religion presented only in a good light.

Religion and Government Bureaucrats:

Many religious conservatives believe that it infringes on the free speech rights and religious freedom of teachers, coaches, and administrators when they can’t share their religion with students. As representatives of the state, however, their speech and actions are in effect the speech and actions of the state. They are acting on behalf of the state, not as private individuals. As such, their actions cannot be sectarian or take sides when it comes to religious disputes.

Public Schools and Religious Pluralism:

There was a time when most students in public schools were Christian and Protestant in particular. Because of this, public schools could reflect Protestant Christian beliefs and traditions with little worry of complaint. Today, however, communities and schools contain much more religious pluralism. Any favoritism towards one religion over others is immediately perceived as an abuse of government power. Schools must be godless because they must be neutral and fair.

Godlessness and Values:

Religious conservatives fear that godlessness means a lack of values, but that's incorrect. It may mean a lack of the narrow, sectarian values championed by the Christian Right, but these aren’t the only values in existence. They aren’t even all values supported by all Christians, much less by all religious believers. It’s important for schools to help instill basic values in students, but not particular religious values or doctrines. Godlessness allows schools to avoid sectarian strife.

Godlessness Public Schools and Democratic Values:

Public schools are given the task of educating children and preparing them for participation in our democratic culture and democratic political system. None of these goals are advanced in any meaningful way if their education is infused with theism, religion, or religious indoctrination. At no point in a person’s education does the godless, secular nature of that education put them at a disadvantage.

Indeed, there are reasons to think that a secular education is ultimately preferable. For one thing, a secular education should be able to avoid the problems that often accompany the divisive nature of religion. Because students will retain their individual religious beliefs, the possibility of division and conflict cannot be eliminated. Because the educational system itself is secular, however, it is restrained from even giving the appearance of taking sides in religious disputes.

This isn’t just a practical advantage, it’s also an important lesson. It teaches students something they need to know when they enter society, namely that while their religious identity may put them into conflict with other citizens who have a different religious identity, the state and society in general will not take sides and put one religion at an advantage over any other. Religion is a matter of private revelation, faith, and devotion; religion is not a subject of political debate and compromise or public policy.

America is becoming increasingly pluralistic when it comes to religion. Because of this, students of all faiths will have to learn to live with people holding beliefs radically different from their own. A secular, godless school system creates a neutral place where they can all learn the same subjects together and learn from each other without anyone feeling advantaged or disadvantaged. The future of a functioning, pluralistic democracy requires its schools to continue to be neutral in this war.
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on August 04, 2014, 12:53:49 PM
Borrowed for Failbook. :cheers:
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: Minimalist on August 04, 2014, 04:34:07 PM
QuoteBecause of this, students of all faiths will have to learn to live with people holding beliefs radically different from their own.

Anathema to the jesus freaks - or, where they are in the majority - the allah freaks.

Both would rather slam their balls in a car door than agree to that.
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: bigdavebear on August 07, 2014, 12:15:34 AM
atheism has ruined everything. secularism and atheism has brainwashed our children and taken away God from our lives. How anybody can think that's a good thing is beyond me.....
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: PickelledEggs on August 07, 2014, 12:34:02 AM
Quote from: bigdavebear on August 07, 2014, 12:15:34 AM
atheism has ruined everything. secularism and atheism has brainwashed our children and taken away God from our lives. How anybody can think that's a good thing is beyond me.....
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/Dog_with_rawhide_chew_toy.jpg)

You look tasty.
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: PickelledEggs on August 07, 2014, 12:35:08 AM
:popcorn:
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: bigdavebear on August 07, 2014, 12:49:52 AM
you make no sense at all.... how can you justify taking God away from our school system and ruining our society and our children? oh yeah that's right because you have no morals and you are a rotten person.....................
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: Hydra009 on August 07, 2014, 03:21:18 AM
Quote from: bigdavebear on August 07, 2014, 12:49:52 AMyou make no sense at all.... how can you justify taking God away from our school system and ruining our society and our children?
(http://i.imgur.com/thiW8xZ.jpg)
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: SGOS on August 07, 2014, 07:08:44 AM
Religion and politics; Both are ideological in nature, and neither is firmly rooted in fact.  For some reason, this combination results in philosophies that generate zealous defense and a need to indoctrinate others.  How would you like it if schools taught a specific brand of politics, and told children what party they should support in order to be good citizens that loved their country?

Most would find that abhorrent.  So why does Christianity get a pass?
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on August 07, 2014, 07:51:09 AM
Quote from: bigdavebear on August 07, 2014, 12:49:52 AM
you make no sense at all.... how can you justify taking God away from our school system and ruining our society and our children? oh yeah that's right because you have no morals and you are a rotten person.....................
Cthulhu has issues with you saying "Christian". Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: GrinningYMIR on August 07, 2014, 09:47:26 AM
Quote from: bigdavebear on August 07, 2014, 12:49:52 AM
you make no sense at all.... how can you justify taking God away from our school system and ruining our society and our children? oh yeah that's right because you have no morals and you are a rotten person.....................

The day that our schools become inundated with "God" is the day that human society has taken one giant leap for mankind, in the wrong direction.
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: LazyLotusEater on August 08, 2014, 09:38:21 AM
My high school was mostly neutral even though I live in the "Bible belt" except for the abstinence only thing, they did teach us that and skipped over condoms and birth control.  The teen pregnancy rate where I live is high, I'm 20 years old and I can already name over 30 people who got "knocked up" from high school and like 3 or 4  have multiple children.  Sex education definitely needs to be reformed in some parts of the U.S.
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: AtheistHardliner on May 10, 2015, 02:33:26 AM
Quote from: bigdavebear on August 07, 2014, 12:15:34 AM
atheism has ruined everything. secularism and atheism has brainwashed our children and taken away God from our lives. How anybody can think that's a good thing is beyond me.....

Brainwashed how? By Providing tangible evidence proving many religious claims is wrong?
Its good because it removes humans from a belief mindset and shift them over to a evidence based mindset. It removes the built inn concept of absolute truth and absolute authority which persists in
all religion. How is this bad?
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: DeathandGrim on May 10, 2015, 05:00:24 AM
Quote from: bigdavebear on August 07, 2014, 12:49:52 AM
you make no sense at all.... how can you justify taking God away from our school system and ruining our society and our children? oh yeah that's right because you have no morals and you are a rotten person.....................

Headstone reads: Painted a target on his own face.

You will be missed...
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: pr126 on May 10, 2015, 06:29:25 AM
 Quite right. (http://www.akdart.com/islam4.html)

Keep religion out of schools  (http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/joseph-klein/islamizing-the-public-schools/)

Even Islam.  (http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/02/public_school_teaches_the_shahada_the_islamic_prayer_for_conversions.html)
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: 1liesalot on May 12, 2015, 05:54:59 PM
QuoteWe 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Proud to be militant. The God freaks have had it too good for too long The should be treated in exactly the same way as any other set of ideas... Marxism, Fascism, whatever.

Fuck their murderous religious bullshit. Why should their bullshit ideas have special dispensation.
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: Solitary on June 04, 2015, 03:24:37 PM
Atheist are a very small minority, and yet we destroy society because we don't believe in a Magic Man in the sky? Give me a fucking break!
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on June 09, 2015, 10:40:12 AM
Quote from: bigdavebear on August 07, 2014, 12:15:34 AM
atheism has ruined everything. secularism and atheism has brainwashed our children and taken away God from our lives. How anybody can think that's a good thing is beyond me.....
religion has ruined everything. Bigotry and imaginary friend worship has brainwashed our children and taken away Reason from our lives. How anybody can think that's a good thing is beyond me.....
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: dtq123 on June 09, 2015, 09:37:20 PM
Quote from: DeathandGrim on May 10, 2015, 05:00:24 AM
Headstone reads: Painted a target on his own face.

You will be missed...
NOPE! He's been hit!
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on June 09, 2015, 11:33:57 PM
Wait, I was taught that god is everywhere all the time so if that foolishness is true, which it isn't then how is it even possible to take god out of schools? Taking god out of schools?  This would imply that teachers and school administrators are indeed more powerful than god.

Well that's good news. .
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: Hoxha Cat on January 02, 2022, 08:46:01 PM
Quote from: 1liesalot on May 12, 2015, 05:54:59 PM
Proud to be militant. The God freaks have had it too good for too long The should be treated in exactly the same way as any other set of ideas... Marxism, Fascism, whatever.

Fuck their murderous religious bullshit. Why should their bullshit ideas have special dispensation.

Why do you speak about Marxism as if it's a bad thing? Marxism is merely a dialectical materialistic, scientific, philosophical Analysis on society. Communism isn't a bad thing either, Communism involves a stateless, classless, moneyless society with common ownership of the means of production and production for need instead of profit. The countries which you would most likely refer to as "Communist" are/were only Socialist and thus merely in the transitionary stage between capitalism and communism. Most of the nations which you would call "communist" were Marxist-Leninist, a form of Socialism that features State-Socialism where the state primarily controls the means of production which is better than a minority of corporations and the bourgeoisie. It also features the belief that a vanguard party is necessary to secure the revolution for the working class, as well as centralized planning
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: aitm on January 04, 2022, 08:07:43 AM
?


Jes a little necro…
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: Mr.Obvious on January 04, 2022, 09:18:38 AM
Quote from: aitm on January 04, 2022, 08:07:43 AM
?


Jes a little necro…

Is necrophilia a victimless crime?
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: SoldierofFortune on January 07, 2022, 04:34:10 PM
I believe in the idea that in any democratic society the citizens have to be free for forming and giving their opinions to be negotiated at the national level.
However, this cannot always be the case in the countries whose population is very large in size, and whose population is culturally diverse.
There must be kinda uniformity in education, maybe just to produce the average citizens of the future, who are now just children but future adults.

But then, Ok. For instance, give the Christians the right to establish their private schools and to regulate their curriculum.
America is full of wealthy devout Cristians who can make it happen.

Here in Turkey, there is a Kurdish movement who demands their right to education in the Kurdish language instruction medium. Politics aside, this is near impossible due to the inferiority of the Kurdish language, not because Kurdish is inherently inferior, but because Kurdish has not been written so much that as far as I know it has not any considerable literary or scientific record of written material.

But Ok, let them build their own curriculum in the Kurdish language and it will be nothing but a total failure.

But then again, these brain storming of the regular citizens like us who are not able to affect the opinions of the policy-makers on the government level.

So my opinion is that, let it be : )
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: Hoxha Cat on January 07, 2022, 04:38:39 PM
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on January 07, 2022, 04:34:10 PM
I believe in the idea that in any democratic society the citizens have to be free for forming and giving their opinions to be negotiated at the national level.
However, this cannot always be the case in the countries whose population is very large in size, and whose population is culturally diverse.
There must be kinda uniformity in education, maybe just to produce the average citizens of the future, who are now just children but future adults.

But then, Ok. For instance, give the Christians the right to establish their private schools and to regulate their curriculum.
America is full of wealthy devout Cristians who can make it happen.

Here in Turkey, there is a Kurdish movement who demands their right to education in the Kurdish language instruction medium. Politics aside, this is near impossible due to the inferiority of the Kurdish language, not because Kurdish is inherently inferior, but because Kurdish has not been written so much that as far as I know it has not any considerable literary or scientific record of written material.

But Ok, let them build their own curriculum in the Kurdish language and it will be nothing but a total failure.

But then again, these brain storming of the regular citizens like us who are not able to affect the opinions of the policy-makers on the government level.

So my opinion is that, let it be : )
Fair enough, each is allowed their opinion, but I as a "Militant" Atheist, Anti-Theist and Marxist believe that private schools should not exist and that any form of educational institution should not teach religious beliefs.
Title: Re: Here Is Why Religion Should Stay Out Of Public Schools
Post by: SoldierofFortune on January 07, 2022, 04:53:40 PM
Quote from: ProletarianBanner on January 07, 2022, 04:38:39 PM
Fair enough, each is allowed their opinion, but I as a "Militant" Atheist, Anti-Theist and Marxist believe that private schools should not exist and that any form of educational institution should not teach religious beliefs.

Ok then, Convince the majority of the citizens of your opinion, make them vote for you, so the worldview and lifestyle you propose will be go into effect and granted under the constitution, providing whenever the people give up their opinion to change the system, they must have the right to it, again, by the democratic ways.

But the handicapp of the democracy is that, non-democratic points of view can establish itself by utilizing the very democratic ways, and after grabbing the power, they may want to disestablish the democracy, and want to perpetuate their order.

So, democracy is like a flower who must be took care of, fragile :D