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Extraordinary Claims => Religion General Discussion => Christianity => Topic started by: CatholicCrusader on July 19, 2014, 08:37:37 PM

Title: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 19, 2014, 08:37:37 PM
this is a thread where I answer questions anyone has about the Catholic Church. 

please do not continue reading this OP if you are not interested in reasons why Protestants aree converting to Catholicism in large numbers and why the Catholic Church is biblical and the most biblically accurate Christian faith.

Try not to see this as an attack on protestantism but rather a list of reasons why people become Catholic for those of you who think we are a bunch of hellbound pagans.The councils that decided the Canon of Scripture that would be in the first Christian Bible took place after Christianity became the official Religion of the Roman Empire and therefore it was the Roman Catholic Church that put together the first Bible and decided the New Testament Canon that is accepted by noncatholics. There is overwhelming evidence that the Catholic Church began in the first century and that the Papacy is nearly 2,000 years old http://www.catholic.com/tracts/browse/Papacy

Most of what people think is extremely Unchristian (Satanic) about the Church like Mariology, confession of sin to a priest, the sacrifice of the mass, seven sacraments, communion of Saints, Holy images etc. was practiced by the Roman Catholics, Eastern Catholics, Coptic, and Orthodox Churches......so if those practices are Satanic and therefore not Christian as many claim, that would mean that every Christian Church on the face of the earth was propagating Satanic practices and therefore, there was not a Christian Church the earth before the 16th Century.if you follow that philosophy

So you Protestants say the Bible decides, but this begs the question when the two warring parties agree that the Bible is the final authority yet disagree on the interpretation where do we go?Since there is a document that many are divided on wouldnt God leave us with a Supreme Court to interpret it and settle Doctrinal or interpretational disputes?

Catholicism avoids theological relativism, by means of dogmatic certainty and the centrality of the papacy.

Catholicism formally (although, sadly, not always in practice) prevents the theological "pick and choose" state of affairs, which leads to the uncertainties and "every man for himself" confusion within the private interpretation system among laypeople.Catholicism retains apostolic succession, necessary to know what is true Christian apostolic Tradition. It was the criterion of Christian truth used by the early Christians and the Church Fathers.

Protestantism arose in 1517, and is a "Johnny-come-lately" in the history of Christianity (having introduced many doctrines previously accepted by no Church, or very few individuals). Therefore it cannot possibly be the "restoration" of "pure", "primitive" Christianity, since this is ruled out by the fact of its novelties and absurdly late appearance. The Catholic Church accepts the authority of the great ecumenical councils which defined and developed Christian doctrine such as the Trinity and the Nicene Creed which are embraced by most Protestants

Protestantism has too often neglected the place of liturgy in worship (with notable exceptions such as Anglicanism and Lutheranism). This is the way Christians had always worshiped down through the centuries, and thus cant be so lightly dismissed. Many Protestant denominations have removed the Eucharist from the center and focus of Christian worship services. Some Protestants observe it only monthly, or even quarterly (the Reformed are notorious for this). This is against many centuries of Christian Tradition and therefore should not be lightly dismissed. Most Protestants (Lutherans and high-church Anglicans being the exception) believe in a merely symbolic Eucharist, which is contrary to universal Christian Tradition up to 1517, the teachings of the Early Church Fathers, and the Bible (Mt 26:26-8; Jn 6:47-63; 1 Cor 10:14-22; 11:23-30), which hold to the Real Presence

Protestantism has abolished the priesthood (Mt 18:18) and the sacrament of ordination, contrary to Christian Tradition and the Bible (Acts 6:6; 14:22; 1 Tim 4:14; 2 Tim 1:6).The majority of Protestants deny baptismal regeneration, contrary to Christian Tradition and the Bible (Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5; Acts 2:38; 22:16; Rom 6:3-4; 1 Cor 6:11; Titus 3:5).Protestantism is divided into five major camps on the question of baptism. Protestantism denies the indissolubility of sacramental marriage and allows divorce, contrary to Christian Tradition and the Bible (Gen 2:24; Mal 2:14-16; Mt 5:32; 19:6,9; Mk10:11-12; Lk 16:18; Rom 7:2-3; 1 Cor 7:10-14,39)

.Many Protestant denominations (mostly its liberal wing, but alarmingly in many other places, too) have changed their previous stances on women pastors, abortion, and homosexuality.
Catholicism remains firm on what it has always taught of such behavior being forbidden or gravely sinful.Women pastors is contrary to Christian Tradition (including traditional Protestant theology) and the Bible (Mt 10:1-4; 1 Tim 2:11-15; 3:1-12; Titus 1:6).

Protestantism sanctions contraception,(they changed their stance) in defiance of universal Christian Tradition (Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant) up until 1930 - when the Anglicans first allowed it - and the Bible (Gen 38:8-10; 41:52; Ex 23:25-6; Lev 26:9; Deut 7:14; Ruth 4:13; Lk 1:24-5). Luther and Calvin, e.g., regarded it as murder. Now, only Catholicism retains the ancient Tradition.

Protestantism has contradictory views of church government, or ecclesiology (episcopal, presbyterian, congregational, or no collective authority at all), thusmaking widespread discipline, unity and order impossible.Some sects even claim to have "apostles" or "prophets" among them, with all the accompanying abuses of authority resulting there from and false predictions of the end times and belief's like the Rapture.

Sola scriptura could be considered an abuse of the Bible, since it is a use of the Bible contrary to its explicit and implicit testimony about itself and Tradition.The Bible is, in fact, undeniably a Christian Tradition itself.

Most Protestants do not have bishops, a Christian office which is biblical (1 Tim 3:1-2) and which has existed from the earliest Christian history and Tradition.

Protestantism has no way of settling doctrinal issues definitively. At best, the individual Protestant can only take a head count of how many Protestant scholars, commentators, etc. take such-and-such a view on Doctrine or interpretation x, y, or z; Or (in a more sophisticated fashion), the Protestant can simply accept the authority of some denominational tradition, confession, or creed (which then has to be justified over against the other competing ones). There is no unified Protestant Tradition.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on July 19, 2014, 08:45:05 PM
Everything you posted in the OP is of no interest to anyone here. We are atheists. Look it up. We really don't give a damn about you or your beliefs and if you want a positive response, try your mother, or whichever priest is currently using your rectum for a joy toy. You will get nothing but negative feedback and are really, really wasting your time.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 19, 2014, 08:48:14 PM
Don't worry about me guys.  Not only can you guys all gang up on me but the other theists  will as well so you will have fun with me I'm sure.

by the way, I can see biblically why the Church teaches about contraceptives but personally I think contraceptives are a good thing.
Also I believe priests should be allowed to marry.

I think the ban on women priests is very biblical but I certainly do not feel strong about that issue and believed that is a vocation that women could do very well at.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 19, 2014, 08:50:22 PM
Quote from: stromboli on July 19, 2014, 08:45:05 PM
Everything you posted in the OP is of no interest to anyone here. We are atheists. Look it up. We really don't give a damn about you or your beliefs and if you want a positive response, try your mother, or whichever priest is currently using your rectum for a joy toy. You will get nothing but negative feedback and are really, really wasting your time.

the Internet is big and I am sure that there are theists who will read this.  this will be the last thread that I start about Catholicism
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on July 19, 2014, 08:51:48 PM
The bible is a work of fiction so any quote from it is invalid and we still don't have any interest in your bullshit. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on July 19, 2014, 08:52:55 PM
Quote from: stromboli on July 19, 2014, 08:45:05 PM
Everything you posted in the OP is of no interest to anyone here. We are atheists. Look it up. We really don't give a damn about you or your beliefs and if you want a positive response, try your mother, or whichever priest is currently using your rectum for a joy toy. You will get nothing but negative feedback and are really, really wasting your time.

While its true anyone here as an atheist would most likely not have an interest in Catholicism or any other religion, we should also take the opportunity to extend our own way of seeing the world to others without forcing it, and even take the opportunity to  pop question to those in devout faiths on their personal view of such matters.
This is an open forum after all, and I'm pretty sure the op is outnumbered, but for the benefit of the doubt why not get some feedback?

I guess I'll open the board with a simple question, one to one, CatholicCrusader what is your personal view of the now growing acceptance of something like gay marriage across states in america, as well as European countries like the uk?

QuoteThe bible is a work of fiction so any quote from it is invalid and we still don't have any interest in your bullshit. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

come now, if he's being civil with us, we can extend the same.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: leo on July 19, 2014, 08:59:01 PM
The catholiccrusader will see his or her ass in the pulgatory soon.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Moralnihilist on July 19, 2014, 09:09:58 PM
An honest question for the OP. What makes you want to come to a place called Atheist forums and try to reach protestants? Would not your little crusade be better served by going where, you know, protestants are?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: The Skeletal Atheist on July 19, 2014, 09:30:48 PM
Quote from: Moralnihilist on July 19, 2014, 09:09:58 PM
An honest question for the OP. What makes you want to come to a place called Atheist forums and try to reach protestants? Would not your little crusade be better served by going where, you know, protestants are?
Well, we do have one protestant that I know of in here.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on July 19, 2014, 09:34:36 PM
Personally I don't care if you want to discuss this stuff and have the pretentious idea that Catholicism is The One Trueâ,,¢ faith. To me it's the same as when I was a small child, gibberish with the goal of extracting every penny from every sucker who'll bite.
I don't care if this gibberish was written ten years or ten thousand years ago, it's still gibberish written to sound important and the only reason it is is to woo people into handing over their hard earned wages to someone to build 'glorious' buildings as monuments to their own egotistical bullshit and pretend they have some useful knowledge only they can dole out a few hours a day on Sundays.
Feel free to feel important, but here you're just another rolly holer..
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 19, 2014, 09:39:51 PM
Quote from: Munch on July 19, 2014, 08:52:55 PM
While its true anyone here as an atheist would most likely not have an interest in Catholicism or any other religion, we should also take the opportunity to extend our own way of seeing the world to others without forcing it, and even take the opportunity to  pop question to those in devout faiths on their personal view of such matters.
This is an open forum after all, and I'm pretty sure the op is outnumbered, but for the benefit of the doubt why not get some feedback?

I guess I'll open the board with a simple question, one to one, CatholicCrusader what is your personal view of the now growing acceptance of something like gay marriage across states in america, as well as European countries like the uk?

come now, if he's being civil with us, we can extend the same.
Thank you  for your kind and civil  message

My personal belief is that there is no such thing as a gay marriage but I don't feel too bad if gay couples are given all of the benefits that a heterosexual couple gets.

Since there are plenty of Christian denominations that will Wed gay couples I see no reason why the Catholic Church is to ever do such a thing or change what was taught for 2000 years.

I have known many homosexuals  I care about  deeply who are kind and generous and compassionate towards other people and treat them as they would like to be treated.  I do not believe that homosexual acts are nearly as bad as  pride,  unforgiveness, self-righteousness , judging other people, calumny, hatred, theft, or murder.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Simon Moon on July 19, 2014, 09:51:08 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 19, 2014, 09:39:51 PM
thank you very much for your kind post.

my personal belief is that there is no such thing as a gay marriage but I don't feel too bad if gay couples are given all of the benefits that a heterosexual couple gets.

since there are plenty of Christian denominations that will Wed gay couples I see no reason why the Catholic Church is to ever do such a thing or change what was taught for 2000 years.

I have known many homosexuals  I care about  deeply and are very kind and generous and compassionate towards other people and treat others as they would like to be treated.  I do not believe that homosexual acts are nearly as bad as  pride,  unforgiveness, self-righteousness , judging other people, hatred, theft, or murder.

Well, here's the thing about marriage in the US. I can't speak for other countries, but I am sure for most Western countries, it's probably similar.

Marriage, as far as the government is concerned, is a legal contract. End of story.

Name any other legal contract between consenting adults that you think it would be fair and reasonable to restrict entering into based on sexual orientation.

The religious portion of marriage is out of the government's hands. If churches, mosques, temples, etc do not want to perform the the religious ceremony for homosexuals, that is their right, and I support their decision.

But the religious ceremony has nothing to do with the legal contract.

But again, why should anyone restrict the right of consenting adults to enter into a legal contract?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Simon Moon on July 19, 2014, 09:55:57 PM
By the way, welcome aboard.


Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 19, 2014, 10:00:17 PM
I see nothing immoral, sinful, or dangerous about allowing a civil contract  between a gay couple.  But I personally do not believe that it is a marriage.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 19, 2014, 10:03:03 PM
 The Catholic Church does not teach that it is a sin to be homosexual .
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 19, 2014, 10:04:53 PM
Quote from: Moralnihilist on July 19, 2014, 09:09:58 PM
An honest question for the OP. What makes you want to come to a place called Atheist forums and try to reach protestants? Would not your little crusade be better served by going where, you know, protestants are?
I have accounts on more than 5 Christian forums.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: PickelledEggs on July 19, 2014, 10:07:38 PM
How do you view the crusades? and how does it differ from other genocides?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on July 19, 2014, 10:40:21 PM
Okay as what one by one believes that's all yours, obviously as a gay man I see marriage as an open union to all regardless of faith, but that's just me.

Just out of curiosity, has there ever been an instance where you have been strongly confronted by someone of a non-theist belief and them have talked to you at length about casting off you faith to follow a non-theistic belief?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: SGOS on July 19, 2014, 11:00:38 PM
Quote from: Simon Moon on July 19, 2014, 09:51:08 PM
But the religious ceremony has nothing to do with the legal contract.
Right!  The legal contract is the marriage.  The ritualistic foo fa done in the church in front of an audience is nothing more than a public celebration of a marriage that already exists.  It performs no necessary function to complete the act of marriage, although the Church would like people to believe you can't have marriage without a church, and indeed when the bride and groom finally kiss under the direction of the minister, at that precise moment, people think in their minds, "Now the couple is married!"  Actually, they were married when they were issued a license by the state days before that.  The ceremony in the church doesn't add any special status not already granted by the state.

When you wish to dissolve the marriage, this is done by the state.  For some reason, the Church does not have a ceremonial ritual to dissolve the marriage.  Of course, there's no special glory in it for the church, nor is it necessary since the church had nothing to do with the marriage to begin with.  It was just for show.

Now stop and ask yourself what right does the Church have to say who can be issued a marriage license?  There is no reason whatsoever for the Church to stick its nose into the matter.  It doesn't have that right.  It has no legal standing, and it should just fuck off and quit thinking it's so God all important when it comes to marrying people.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on July 19, 2014, 11:25:36 PM
Why do you think that you're any more qualified to answer questions about catholicism than the infamous catholic idiot with the user-name 'Eve' was?

What made the Catholic church qualified to choose the first biblical canon?

Why should a protestant trust a papal definitive and summary pronouncement of scripture over any live, evolving scholarly discussion of said scripture?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on July 19, 2014, 11:38:29 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 19, 2014, 10:00:17 PM
I see nothing immoral, sinful, or dangerous about allowing a civil contract  between a gay couple.  But I personally do not believe that it is a marriage.
Those are two completely different things, civil contract and marriage. The language of civil contract is what is used to deny the same rights to homosexual couples as heterosexual couples otherwise the equality movement would have ground to a halt long ago. There's a lot of other issues a civil contract won't and can't cover such as decisions on life and death, who gets to pull the plug at the end of life, inheritance, insurance coverage, survivor benefits and so on. It's telling gay and lesbian couples, 'You can pretend to be married, but that's all.' It's how the church gets to skirt all the issues. If the church wants to be tax free and get all the billions of government money then they should have to recognize marriages in everyone, not just straight couples.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 12:25:24 AM
Quote from: Munch on July 19, 2014, 10:40:21 PM
Okay as what one by one believes that's all yours, obviously as a gay man I see marriage as an open union to all regardless of faith, but that's just me.

Just out of curiosity, has there ever been an instance where you have been strongly confronted by someone of a non-theist belief and them have talked to you at length about casting off you faith to follow a non-theistic belief?
I love you my gay friend.  You are attracted to men?  So is God!  So was the virgin Mary and the vast majority of women.  What's wrong with finding men attractive?  Nothing!

I do not believe God will burn you in hell.  I am very ashamed of the results of theism and the embarrassing mess that Christianity and religion is in .  Which is one reason why I would rather be at an atheist forum  than a Christian forum even though I am Catholic.

I don't like how Christian forums are censored and you get banned for being a human being and you can t use profanity and you have to act like you've lived a sheltered puritanical life.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 12:38:47 AM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 19, 2014, 10:07:38 PM
How do you view the crusades? and how does it differ from other genocides?
The Crusades were  a failure and sometimes an embarrassment or atrocious.  However it was very political.  Spain was almost entirely conquered by the Moors.  The Moors also conquered much of France.  Had the the Pope not declared  a crusade against the Ottoman Empire that lead to the destruction of the Turkish Navy at lepanto,  St Peter's Basilica would've been turned in to a mosque, the Koran would have replaced the Bible and  Italy would have become another country like the middle east.   The Crusades were fought on land that was Christian that had been invaded and conquered by Muslims.

If it wasn't for the Crusades, Spain, France, Italy, and possibly the entire European continent would have been conquered by the Ottoman Empire and the Moors.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on July 20, 2014, 01:08:45 AM
So basically you're admitting your beliefs are kinda fucked up and yet you can't let go knowing the historical savagery inflicted by the Catholic church over the centuries? Something is kind of screwey there.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Poison Tree on July 20, 2014, 01:53:03 AM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 19, 2014, 08:37:37 PM
Catholicism formally (although, sadly, not always in practice) prevents the theological "pick and choose" state of affairs

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 19, 2014, 08:48:14 PM

by the way, I can see biblically why the Church teaches about contraceptives but personally I think contraceptives are a good thing.
Also I believe priests should be allowed to marry.

I think the ban on women priests is very biblical but I certainly do not feel strong about that issue and believed that is a vocation that women could do very well at.
:think:
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: hrdlr110 on July 20, 2014, 02:08:06 AM
I do not believe that homosexual acts are nearly as bad as  pride,  unforgiveness, self-righteousness , judging other people, calumny, hatred, theft, or murder.
[/quote]

But homosexual acts are on the same list with all these things eh? That's like saying to someone "hurting you is the last thing I wanted to do." It implies that there is a list, and that hurting them is on it - even tho it's the last item.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on July 20, 2014, 02:14:00 AM
LOL.. hurting you is the last thing I want to do to you. Wanna know what came right before hurting you?  Mutilation, disfigurement and dragged down the freeway by your feet, but it might have killed you so I settled with hurting you.  :lol:
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on July 20, 2014, 02:30:20 AM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 19, 2014, 08:37:37 PM
this is a thread where I answer questions anyone has about the Catholic Church. 

please do not continue reading this OP if you are not interested in reasons why Protestants aree converting to Catholicism in large numbers and why the Catholic Church is biblical and the most biblically accurate Christian faith.

Try not to see this as an attack on protestantism but rather a list of reasons why people become Catholic for those of you who think we are a bunch of hellbound pagans.The councils that decided the Canon of Scripture that would be in the first Christian Bible took place after Christianity became the official Religion of the Roman Empire and therefore it was the Roman Catholic Church that put together the first Bible and decided the New Testament Canon that is accepted by noncatholics. There is overwhelming evidence that the Catholic Church began in the first century and that the Papacy is nearly 2,000 years old http://www.catholic.com/tracts/browse/Papacy

Most of what people think is extremely Unchristian (Satanic) about the Church like Mariology, confession of sin to a priest, the sacrifice of the mass, seven sacraments, communion of Saints, Holy images etc. was practiced by the Roman Catholics, Eastern Catholics, Coptic, and Orthodox Churches......so if those practices are Satanic and therefore not Christian as many claim, that would mean that every Christian Church on the face of the earth was propagating Satanic practices and therefore, there was not a Christian Church the earth before the 16th Century.if you follow that philosophy

So you Protestants say the Bible decides, but this begs the question when the two warring parties agree that the Bible is the final authority yet disagree on the interpretation where do we go?Since there is a document that many are divided on wouldnt God leave us with a Supreme Court to interpret it and settle Doctrinal or interpretational disputes?

Catholicism avoids theological relativism, by means of dogmatic certainty and the centrality of the papacy.

Catholicism formally (although, sadly, not always in practice) prevents the theological "pick and choose" state of affairs, which leads to the uncertainties and "every man for himself" confusion within the private interpretation system among laypeople.Catholicism retains apostolic succession, necessary to know what is true Christian apostolic Tradition. It was the criterion of Christian truth used by the early Christians and the Church Fathers.

Protestantism arose in 1517, and is a "Johnny-come-lately" in the history of Christianity (having introduced many doctrines previously accepted by no Church, or very few individuals). Therefore it cannot possibly be the "restoration" of "pure", "primitive" Christianity, since this is ruled out by the fact of its novelties and absurdly late appearance. The Catholic Church accepts the authority of the great ecumenical councils which defined and developed Christian doctrine such as the Trinity and the Nicene Creed which are embraced by most Protestants

Protestantism has too often neglected the place of liturgy in worship (with notable exceptions such as Anglicanism and Lutheranism). This is the way Christians had always worshiped down through the centuries, and thus cant be so lightly dismissed. Many Protestant denominations have removed the Eucharist from the center and focus of Christian worship services. Some Protestants observe it only monthly, or even quarterly (the Reformed are notorious for this). This is against many centuries of Christian Tradition and therefore should not be lightly dismissed. Most Protestants (Lutherans and high-church Anglicans being the exception) believe in a merely symbolic Eucharist, which is contrary to universal Christian Tradition up to 1517, the teachings of the Early Church Fathers, and the Bible (Mt 26:26-8; Jn 6:47-63; 1 Cor 10:14-22; 11:23-30), which hold to the Real Presence

Protestantism has abolished the priesthood (Mt 18:18) and the sacrament of ordination, contrary to Christian Tradition and the Bible (Acts 6:6; 14:22; 1 Tim 4:14; 2 Tim 1:6).The majority of Protestants deny baptismal regeneration, contrary to Christian Tradition and the Bible (Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5; Acts 2:38; 22:16; Rom 6:3-4; 1 Cor 6:11; Titus 3:5).Protestantism is divided into five major camps on the question of baptism. Protestantism denies the indissolubility of sacramental marriage and allows divorce, contrary to Christian Tradition and the Bible (Gen 2:24; Mal 2:14-16; Mt 5:32; 19:6,9; Mk10:11-12; Lk 16:18; Rom 7:2-3; 1 Cor 7:10-14,39)

.Many Protestant denominations (mostly its liberal wing, but alarmingly in many other places, too) have changed their previous stances on women pastors, abortion, and homosexuality.
Catholicism remains firm on what it has always taught of such behavior being forbidden or gravely sinful.Women pastors is contrary to Christian Tradition (including traditional Protestant theology) and the Bible (Mt 10:1-4; 1 Tim 2:11-15; 3:1-12; Titus 1:6).

Protestantism sanctions contraception,(they changed their stance) in defiance of universal Christian Tradition (Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant) up until 1930 - when the Anglicans first allowed it - and the Bible (Gen 38:8-10; 41:52; Ex 23:25-6; Lev 26:9; Deut 7:14; Ruth 4:13; Lk 1:24-5). Luther and Calvin, e.g., regarded it as murder. Now, only Catholicism retains the ancient Tradition.

Protestantism has contradictory views of church government, or ecclesiology (episcopal, presbyterian, congregational, or no collective authority at all), thusmaking widespread discipline, unity and order impossible.Some sects even claim to have "apostles" or "prophets" among them, with all the accompanying abuses of authority resulting there from and false predictions of the end times and belief's like the Rapture.

Sola scriptura could be considered an abuse of the Bible, since it is a use of the Bible contrary to its explicit and implicit testimony about itself and Tradition.The Bible is, in fact, undeniably a Christian Tradition itself.

Most Protestants do not have bishops, a Christian office which is biblical (1 Tim 3:1-2) and which has existed from the earliest Christian history and Tradition.

Protestantism has no way of settling doctrinal issues definitively. At best, the individual Protestant can only take a head count of how many Protestant scholars, commentators, etc. take such-and-such a view on Doctrine or interpretation x, y, or z; Or (in a more sophisticated fashion), the Protestant can simply accept the authority of some denominational tradition, confession, or creed (which then has to be justified over against the other competing ones). There is no unified Protestant Tradition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18PbwYdjsps
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 03:02:28 AM
Quote from: Poison fTree on July 20, 2014, 01:53:03 AM
:think:
Those are my personal opinions as a sinner not the teachings of the Church. There's a difference. 

Yes I do admit that I have many doubts and would consider myself quite lukewarm at the moment.

I guarantee you mother T eresa, the Pope, and every priest, and every Bishop, and all 12 apostles ALL had doubts , and sins, and transgressions, and acts of rebellion and defiance against God.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 03:15:06 AM
Thee Hand of God is seen in the Miracle of the Church's Durability

Is there any institution on the face of the earth that has inspired more people, survived so much persecution, had more people hate and utter every thing false against it, preached the Gospel to more people, and 2,000 years later remains the strongest and most influential organization on the planet?

Is there any other Christ-centered establishment that has brought so many millions of people to the Adoration of the Holy Trinity? Is there any other Church that dates back to the time of Christ? However, even the authors of the World Book Encyclopedia who have no Catholic persuasion will confess that the Catholic Church dates back to the first Century with an unbreakable chain of Bishops of Rome dating back to the Apostle Peter.

The durability of the Catholic Church is the marvel of her enemies. It is only the hand of God that could have brought her safely through such perils, which have proved fatal to merely human institutions. Often death seemed to have come upon her, but, sustained by her Divine vitality, she cast off disease as a garment, and rose from her bed of sickness. She is like the house or which Christ speaks in the gospel: "And the rain fell and the floods came, and they beat upon that house, and it fell not, for it was founded on a rock" (Matt. 7:25).

Often have her children heard the demons' exultant cry that, at last, she was overwhelmed in the wave of death. But the tempest passed, and day broke anew, and the eyes of men beheld her still firmly fixed as of old on the rock of Peter, triumphant amid the wreckage of her enemies."There is not," says the Protestant writer Macaulay (Essay on Ranke's 'History of the Popes'), "and there never was on this earth, a work of human policy so well deserving of examination as the Roman Catholic Church. The proudest royal houses are but of yesterday, when compared with the line of the Supreme Pontiffs.That line we trace back in unbroken series from the Pope who crowned Napoleon in the nineteenth century to the Pope who crowned Pepin in the eighth; and far beyond the time of Pepin, the dynasty extends. .

The republic of Venice came next in antiquity. But the republic of Venice was modern when compared with the Papacy; and the republic of Venice is gone, and the Papacy remains . . . Nor do we see any sign which indicates that the term of her long domination is approaching. She saw the commencement of all the ecclesiastical establishments that now exist in the world; and we feel no assurance that she is not destined to see the end of them all.

It is not strange that, in the year 1799, even sagacious observers should have thought that, at length, the hour of the Church of Rome was come? An infidel power ascendant, the Pope dying in captivity, the most illustrious prelates of France living in a foreign non Catholic country .... . But the end was not yet.Anarchy had had its day. A new order of things rose out of the confusion . . . and amidst them emerged the ancient religion.

The Arabs have a fable that the Great Pyramid was built by antediluvian kings, and alone, of all the works of men, bore the weight of the flood.  Such as this was the fate of the Papacy.It had been buried under the great inundation; but its deep foundations had remained unshaken; and, when the waters abated, it appeared alone amidst the ruins of a world that had passed away. The Republic of Holland was gone, and the Empire of Germany, and . . . the House of Bourbon, and the parliaments and aristocracy of France.

Europe was full of young creations, a French empire, a kingdom of Italy, a Confederation of the Rhine. Nor had the late events affected only territorial limits and political institutions. The distribution of property, the composition and spirit of society had, through a great part of Catholic Europe, undergone a complete change. But the unchangeable Church was still there."We may summarize the argument as follows: (1) The Papacy, the Rock on which the Church is built, is the only institution which has survived all the vast social and political changes and revolutions in the life and government of Europe since the days of the Roman Emperors. (2) It has survived in spite of persecution, and political intrigue; in spite of heresy and schism among its subjects, in spite of the worldliness and the weakness or incompetency of some of the Popes. Such a survival is miraculous.
The Papacy and the Church over which it presides must, therefore, be the work of God many believe. 

"The Ark of the Church may be swept by the waves, but it can never sink because Christ is there" (St. Anseim).
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on July 20, 2014, 03:18:33 AM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 03:15:06 AMIs there any institution on the face of the earth that has inspired more people, survived so much persecution, had more people hate and utter every thing false against it, preached the Gospel to more people, and 2,000 years later remains the strongest and most influential organization on the planet?
The Jews would like a word with you.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: PickelledEggs on July 20, 2014, 03:23:24 AM
What does an organization being long lasting and influential have to do with it's accuracy?

Sent from your mom
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hydra009 on July 20, 2014, 03:35:00 AM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 03:15:06 AM
Thee Hand of God is seen in the Miracle of the Church's Durability
I guess you're converting to Hinduism, then.   :wink2:
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 03:57:27 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on July 20, 2014, 03:35:00 AM
I guess you're converting to Hinduism, then.   :wink2:
Hinduism has no government, has no head, has little structure,  no governing hierarchy, no dogmatic or provincial councils, and is not an institution.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on July 20, 2014, 04:11:29 AM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 03:57:27 AM
Hinduism has no government, has no head, has little structure,  no governing hierarchy, no dogmatic or provincial councils, and is not an institution.
Tell that to the Hindus.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Solomon Zorn on July 20, 2014, 06:46:19 AM
The influence of the Catholic Church may seem profound to you, but the many other faiths have had equally profound influences when seen through the eyes of their believers. What you are seeing is the hand of man, not the hand of God. The Bible, like all holy books, is entirely the work of humans. As such it contains some practical human wisdom buried under a mountain of human fears, superstition, myth, prejudice, and general ignorance. Your premise seems to me to be suffering from the Bandwagon Fallacy, at the heart of it. Influence merely means popularity.

By the way, I applaud your relatively progressive attitude (for a Christian) about gays and gay marriage. But the important political question to me is, how do you feel about the separation of church and state?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Solomon Zorn on July 20, 2014, 06:51:50 AM
I would be interested to hear your take on this topic: http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=5488.0
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on July 20, 2014, 08:04:12 AM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 03:15:06 AM
Is there any institution on the face of the earth that has inspired more people, survived so much persecution, had more people hate and utter every thing false against it, preached the Gospel to more people, and 2,000 years later remains the strongest and most influential organization on the planet?
Yes. Science. It was invented by the Ionian Greeks some 3,000 years ago, survived the Catholic Church's purges, continued to be practiced in some form right through the Dark Ages, took prominence during the Enlightenment, and has lengthened the lives of everyone and eased their labor and suffering, brought us understanding of ourselves, and have handed us the keys to the universe. It's only "gospel" is the scientific method, the violation of which only brings marginalization, not death. Scientist are now the most trusted people on the planet, and form an international institution encompassing all faiths and nationalities.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on July 20, 2014, 08:17:32 AM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on July 20, 2014, 08:04:12 AM
Yes. Science. It was invented by the Ionian Greeks some 3,000 years ago, survived the Catholic Church's purges, continued to be practiced in some form right through the Dark Ages, took prominence during the Enlightenment, and has lengthened the lives of everyone and eased their labor and suffering, brought us understanding of ourselves, and have handed us the keys to the universe. It's only "gospel" is the scientific method, the violation of which only brings marginalization, not death. Scientist are now the most trusted people on the planet, and form an international institution encompassing all faiths and nationalities.

This made me happy thinking about it. Casting back though my life and all I've been though, its always been doctors and nurses who have been their for me in my time of need, from being diagnosed diabetic at age two where the discovery of insulin treatment meant my mum didn't have to see her two year old son die, to the broken bones my brother suffered, to the swelling I had at the base of my spine, to the major tooth pains, to my mums hiatus hernia, to my friends fight with HIV, to my dad having his cancer ridden bladder replaced with a catheter, and so on... all this has been because of science, no religion.

I hold science and the medical practices of well informed individuals in the highest regard. I would be died many times over by now if not for them.

Heck, I actually exist today because of science and biology, seeing how I am from an A.I.D (artificially inseminated donor) because my father (not biological father) had hereditary cancer, so i would have contracted it myself. The result being I'm now a 33 year old man and my brother is 35 and has two healthy boys himself. All because science and my mother turning to them because she desperately wanted children.

I don't just admire science, I think its bloody wonderful.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: PopeyesPappy on July 20, 2014, 09:03:59 AM
In before the Catholic church gave us science...
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Johan on July 20, 2014, 09:13:47 AM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 19, 2014, 10:03:03 PM
The Catholic Church does not teach that it is a sin to be homosexual .
Correct. The church does not teach that it is sin to be homosexual. Instead they teach quite aggressively in some cases, that it is a disorder. They teach that homosexuals have something wrong with them.

If you're ok with that and you believe deep down that it is right and proper to teach any and all who will listen that homosexuals have something wrong with them, then please go kill yourself. Please do it now.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on July 20, 2014, 09:31:25 AM
Quote from: Johan on July 20, 2014, 09:13:47 AM
Correct. The church does not teach that it is sin to be homosexual. Instead they teach quite aggressively in some cases, that it is a disorder. They teach that homosexuals have something wrong with them.

If you're ok with that and you believe deep down that it is right and proper to teach any and all who will listen that homosexuals have something wrong with them, then please go kill yourself. Please do it now.

speaking as a gay guy myself, there was a time when I use to think that too, and yes it does still piss me off having someone preach hell and damnation against people who have a different sexuality to them.
But take into account that many atheists are people who have been raised by religious faith, and yet have developed there own sense of self and questioned the beliefs their parents and ministry forced on them.

end of the day, people can change and come around to a new way of thinking, so just asking someone to kill themselves without the chance to grow doesn't help anyone.

Unless a person causes physical and mental harm to another person in the act of religion, only then should be be brought into question if they deserve to be punished for their actions. And please, if we are aware enough to advance beyond faith rhetoric, we can think better then just asking people to go kill themselves just because they believe in something we personally disagree with. CatholicCrusader isn't here telling people to go kill themselves, so don't say it either.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Johan on July 20, 2014, 09:46:43 AM
Quote from: Munch on July 20, 2014, 09:31:25 AM

Unless a person causes physical and mental harm to another person in the act of religion, only then should be be brought into question 
If a person is endorsing said religion, then they are by extension, causing physical and mental harm to another person. That don't hate the player, hate the game bullshit is bullshit.

As for my comment, do I expect this fuckwad to go off himself? Of course not.  But I chose those words because I think they adequately express my opinion that anyone who would seriously offer as a defense of their position, as this fuckwad did, that the catholic church ain't so bad and is in fact great because hey they don't teach that homosexuality is a sin, is someone I've got no patience for.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on July 20, 2014, 10:25:01 AM
Quote from: Johan on July 20, 2014, 09:46:43 AM
If a person is endorsing said religion, then they are by extension, causing physical and mental harm to another person. That don't hate the player, hate the game bullshit is bullshit.

As for my comment, do I expect this fuckwad to go off himself? Of course not.  But I chose those words because I think they adequately express my opinion that anyone who would seriously offer as a defense of their position, as this fuckwad did, that the catholic church ain't so bad and is in fact great because hey they don't teach that homosexuality is a sin, is someone I've got no patience for.

don't get me wrong, I don't agree with any kind of religion or its indoctrination, given how religions mask their more cruel intentions with sugared stories, I have no intention of giving respect to faiths, as someone who follows logic and reason.
but that doesn't mean we should lower ourselves to bash predictors against it either, the greatest thing is teaching others and them carrying that message over to others, not forcing it and threatening things, or asking them to harm themselves.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: the_antithesis on July 20, 2014, 10:29:46 AM
 â€œIf I was in a club, and I found out that there had been generations of people abusing children, and then that club was covering that up, I would quit the club. And I wouldn’t give them any more money.”

~ Tom Petty

Not really a question, but it does hang a question mark on why you are still part of a corrupt organization that does not have your best interests at heart despite declarations by its leadership to the contrary.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on July 20, 2014, 10:40:49 AM
Quote from: the_antithesis on July 20, 2014, 10:29:46 AM
“If I was in a club, and I found out that there had been generations of people abusing children, and then that club was covering that up, I would quit the club. And I wouldn’t give them any more money.”

~ Tom Petty

Not really a question, but it does hang a question mark on why you are still part of a corrupt organization that does not have your best interests at heart despite declarations by its leadership to the contrary.

http://www.financemanila.advfn.com/2013/02/how-much-is-the-vatican-worth/

The Vatican is sitting on billions of dollars worth its weight in gold. Most the the vatican itself is decked out in gold, and said to have millions worth its weight in it, thats not accounting for the vast amount of gold ingots is has stored in the US federal reserve.



You know how in catholic churches they ask people to give their money at the end of prayer to help support the church?

Just type in the vatican's gold in google and look at images.

(http://christianspooksite.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/funny-pope-vatican-gold-evil2.jpg?w=460)(http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m876c1aDCv1r3qj9bo1_500.jpg)
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Mermaid on July 20, 2014, 11:08:38 AM
Quotereasons why Protestants aree converting to Catholicism in large numbers and why the Catholic Church is biblical and the most biblically accurate Christian faith.
I think this, here, is at the very core of my problem with religion. You are right and everyone else is wrong.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: leo on July 20, 2014, 11:20:54 AM
The Catholic Church is  dying slowly . Sometime in the future people will study the catholic religion in the mythology classes. The Catholic Church will fall because is based in a lie. Eventually things based in lies will die and  nothing lasts forever. The Catholic Church in a few centuries tops will be replaced by another religion. Sadly I don't see religion ceasing  to exists in the immediate future.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 11:49:17 AM
"The Jews would like a word with you."

Judaismm has not survived.  Judaism today is not even close to the religion in the Old Testament.  Modern Judaism is a tiny religion that has little influence what so ever.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: the_antithesis on July 20, 2014, 11:51:48 AM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 11:49:17 AM
Judaism has not survived.  Judaism today is not even close to the religion in the Old Testament.  Modern Judaism is a tiny religion that has little influence what so ever.

And catholicism does?

Most catholics I know drink and smoke and do drug and fuck outside of marriage, but then get incredibly pious on Sundays, like the fucking hypocrites they are.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hydra009 on July 20, 2014, 12:04:57 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 03:57:27 AMHinduism has no government, has no head, has little structure,  no governing hierarchy, no dogmatic or provincial councils, and is not an institution.
Another miracle! :dance:
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 12:17:47 PM
Quote from: the_antithesis on July 20, 2014, 11:51:48 AM
And catholicism does?

Most catholics I know drink and smoke and do drug and fuck outside of marriage, but then get incredibly pious on Sundays, like the fucking hypocrites they are.
The Catholic Church mature s and grows as society does and she learns from her mistakes.  Although the church doesn't look like she did in the first second and third century, she is the same church.   You do not look anything like you did when you are a baby, but you are still the same person.

As I said human beings are fallen and naturally inclined to sin.  Every Catholic has the free will and choice to do exactly what the church condemns.  Every priest Bishop and nun and monk is inclined to commit a sin and tempted on a daily basis.

There was a scandal in The church when Jesus was with it.  Peter denied him 3 times and was a liar and at one point Jesus even referred to him as Satan, Judas was a traitor and a suicide, all of the apostles who had seen the mighty works of Christ fled like cowards when it was time for him to be executed. all but one that is.

The teachings of the Church are not to be blamed for bad behavior of Catholics but it's simply Catholics choosing to remain unfaithful to their duties that is the cause of every Church scandal.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: the_antithesis on July 20, 2014, 12:19:45 PM
Catholicism is as catholics do.

If catholics don't follow their own teachings, then their teachings are worthless.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 12:23:12 PM
Quote from: the_antithesis on July 20, 2014, 12:19:45 PM
Catholicism is as catholics do.

If catholics don't follow their own teachings, then their teachings are worthless.
are you always faithful to your moral code?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: the_antithesis on July 20, 2014, 12:26:44 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 12:23:12 PM
are you always faithful to your moral code?

I never burned anyone to death because of my moral code.

Catholicism doesn't have a moral code anyway. It's a money making scheme. It used to also be a means for political power, but they've had their balls cut off these days.

That's all it is. The clergy says "make us rich and powerful" and the stupid sheep obey. That's not morality. It's gullibility.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Mermaid on July 20, 2014, 12:45:10 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 11:49:17 AM
"The Jews would like a word with you."

Judaismm has not survived.  Judaism today is not even close to the religion in the Old Testament.  Modern Judaism is a tiny religion that has little influence what so ever.
Say what? What are you basing this assertion on?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on July 20, 2014, 01:15:21 PM
I'm sorry CatholicCrusader, but what your trying to teach will not wash with anyone here. You seem a decent enough guy, but sadly hampered by a belief system that has a bad history, and even today would have to follow it for the wrong reasons, all while taking from its followers.

I hope one day you find it in yourself to look at the world in a broader sense, there are some amazing things in the world that are not held back because of religion, so I just hope to find that.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 01:19:56 PM
 Jews no longer have the priesthood, the victim, or the sacrifices.  They also no longer stone adulterers.  They do not have the same priest hood and those are just a few of the differences.

Catholicism resembles ancient Judaism more than any other Religion today. 

The Catholic Church has a 2000 year unbreakable chain of Popes dating back to the 1st century, the second Pope being St Linus, Bishop of Rome in 67 AD.   The World Book Encyclopedia lists all of the Popes in this unbreakable chain and the world of encyclopedia is not a Catholic book.  See for yourself.

Nothing compares to the durability of of the church and the papacy which has never nor will ever be broken or vanish.  Two thousand years later and the Pope is one of the most influential leaders and probably the most in the world.  How influential is the queen of England or any surviving monarch today?  Tiny compared to the Pope.  The media and the world listen to the Pope even if they don't agree with him.

Time magazine voted Pope Francis the man of the year for instance.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Shol'va on July 20, 2014, 01:20:06 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 12:17:47 PM
The Catholic Church mature s and grows as society does and she learns from her mistakes.
Please correct me if I made a blunder with my post and shown ignorance.
My understanding is that the Catholic church is still not OK with abortion and contraceptives. On the first page of this thread you also said you think contraceptives are a good idea.
If I am correct, then:
a) your claim that the Catholic Church is growing as society does is false
b) I'm not sure how you are a Catholic if you hold counter views to some pretty strongly held views by your own denomination

And I think your statement about the Church growing as society actually means it grows with society, and is a serious indictment.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 01:40:04 PM
The  Chrch grows and responds as contemporary issues arise.  One of these examples is how the church did away with  the latin trindentine masses because Latin became a dead language.

There is not one modern Catholic country in the world that has outlawed religions that are not Catholic or burned heretics to the steak.  I also believe in separation of church and state and much of the Inquisition s were political because sovereignties had a duty to punish heresy which was considered a terrible crime and anarchy.  There will never be another crusade ever.

The Catholic Church will not approve of contraceptives and abortion, because both are condemned by the Bible and the church fathers and every Pope and saint that commented on the issue.  In order for the Catholic Church and the Catholic religion to survive there cannot be any compromising on what the church has always  taught on faith, morals, and theology, but there's nothing that says these sins are any greater than  sins of pride, harsh judgement s on others, unforgivenes, and hatred.

The Pope has commanded Catholics should not be focused so much on the issues of abortion and gay marriage.

Also, you are right I am NOT a good Catholic. I never came here to convince anybody that I'm a good Catholic.   It's just that my primary interest and fascination is with church history, church government, canon law, Catholic apologetics, Catholic culture, and Catholic tradition.

I like to talk about it but I am sick of of Christian forums. They are gross.  I did however hope that there were more theists and Protestants here at this forum that I could debate with.

Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Moralnihilist on July 20, 2014, 02:34:50 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 01:40:04 PMI did however hope that there were more theists and Protestants here at this forum that I could debate with.

Comes to an Atheist forum looking for religious people.

Amazing "thought" process you have there brainiac.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 02:45:55 PM
you have sub-forums critical of every major religio so I thought theists would flock here to defend their faith
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Moralnihilist on July 20, 2014, 02:47:32 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 02:45:55 PM
you have sub-forums critical of every major religio so I thought theists would flock here to defend their faith

You seem to be incapable of thought.
A cursory look at the forum would have shown you otherwise and you could have moved on. But nope you are more interested in trying to "teach" the big bad Atheists something.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: wolf39us on July 20, 2014, 02:53:16 PM


Quote from: Johan on July 20, 2014, 09:13:47 AM
If you're ok with that and you believe deep down that it is right and proper to teach any and all who will listen that homosexuals have something wrong with them, then please go kill yourself. Please do it now.

I don't really care what you meant, this is 100% not necessary.  I don't agree with almost everything his church teaches but this is simply unwarranted.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: _Xenu_ on July 20, 2014, 02:54:06 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 19, 2014, 10:03:03 PM
The Catholic Church does not teach that it is a sin to be homosexual .
I was born into Catholicism and that is technically true. But having said that, lust is considered a sin, as is sex outside of marriage. The problem is, the Catholic church doesn't recognize homosexual relations so there's no way for a homosexual to be in good standing with the church outside of celibacy. If the Catholic church were to allow gay marriage, they would at least be more consistent and not come under so much heat regarding this issue.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: SGOS on July 20, 2014, 02:58:41 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 02:45:55 PM
you have sub-forums critical of every major religio so I thought theists would flock here to defend their faith
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 02:45:55 PM
you have sub-forums critical of every major religio so I thought theists would flock here to defend their faith
If you guys would just leave us alone, you wouldn't have to defend anything.  The only time we give a rip about what you believe is when you try to force your bullshit on us.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Mermaid on July 20, 2014, 03:00:44 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 01:19:56 PM
Jews no longer have the priesthood, the victim, or the sacrifices.  They also no longer stone adulterers.  They do not have the same priest hood and those are just a few of the differences.

Catholicism resembles ancient Judaism more than any other Religion today. 

The Catholic Church has a 2000 year unbreakable chain of Popes dating back to the 1st century, the second Pope being St Linus, Bishop of Rome in 67 AD.   The World Book Encyclopedia lists all of the Popes in this unbreakable chain and the world of encyclopedia is not a Catholic book.  See for yourself.

Nothing compares to the durability of of the church and the papacy which has never nor will ever be broken or vanish.  Two thousand years later and the Pope is one of the most influential leaders and probably the most in the world.  How influential is the queen of England or any surviving monarch today?  Tiny compared to the Pope.  The media and the world listen to the Pope even if they don't agree with him.

Time magazine voted Pope Francis the man of the year for instance.

This still doesn't answer my question. Maybe I should have been clearer: What are you basing this assertion on:
QuoteModern Judaism is a tiny religion that has little influence what so ever.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Contemporary Protestant on July 20, 2014, 03:03:13 PM
Why should i be catholic, out of all the choices i have
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 03:09:07 PM
Quote from: Mermaid on July 20, 2014, 03:00:44 PM
This still doesn't answer my question. Maybe I should have been clearer: What are you basing this assertion on:
I don't force my beliefs on anyone because that would make me a hypocrite because technically I am in mortal sin because I masturbated 3 days ago.

I'm not a good Catholic it's just that this is an interest of mine that I like to talk about.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 03:10:41 PM
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on July 20, 2014, 03:03:13 PM
Why should i be catholic, out of all the choices i have
Dont become Catholic if it goes against your conscience.  I have a very detailed answer to your question and I don't want to answer it now but later.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Johan on July 20, 2014, 03:21:58 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 12:17:47 PM
The Catholic Church mature s and grows as society does and she learns from her mistakes. 
'The fuck? Are you high?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 03:30:41 PM
Quote from: Moralnihilist on July 20, 2014, 02:47:32 PM
You seem to be incapable of thought.
A cursory look at the forum would have shown you otherwise and you could have moved on. But nope you are more interested in trying to "teach" the big bad Atheists something.
Big bad atheist?

Just because someone doesn't believe what I do doesn't make them any more bad than me or any other Catholic.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Mermaid on July 20, 2014, 03:31:24 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 03:09:07 PM
I don't force my beliefs on anyone because that would make me a hypocrite because technically I am in mortal sin because I masturbated 3 days ago.

I'm not a good Catholic it's just that this is an interest of mine that I like to talk about.
This still doesn't answer my question. Not even in the same ballpark.

So do you care to discuss your assertion (you brought it up, after all) that "Modern Judaism is a tiny religion that has little influence what so ever", or do you just plan to obfuscate and hope nobody notices?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Johan on July 20, 2014, 03:35:25 PM
Quote from: wolf39us on July 20, 2014, 02:53:16 PM

I don't really care what you meant, this is 100% not necessary.  I don't agree with almost everything his church teaches but this is simply unwarranted.
Understood. The arrogant prick pissed me off but good with his disingenuous statements about the church and homosexuality and I let that get to me. Won't happen again though I will likely have very little nice to say to that prick from here on out. I don't have much patience for arrogant little fuckwads like that.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 03:46:13 PM
Eight million Jews in the world who would define themselves as religious.  That is smaller than another tiny Religion called  Mormonism that has little influence on the world.

Quote from: Mermaid on July 20, 2014, 03:31:24 PM
This still doesn't answer my question. Not even in the same ballpark.

So do you care to discuss your assertion (you brought it up, after all) that "Modern Judaism is a tiny religion that has little influence what so ever", or do you just plan to obfuscate and hope nobody notices?
Since I've already answered your question I will get back to you .  I have some other questions I would like to answer here before that.  Research the Judaism off today compared to ancient Judaism and you will quickly and clearly and obviously find that it is not to same religion or the same traditions , or the same rituals, or the same Levitical priesthood.

Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Mermaid on July 20, 2014, 03:50:48 PM
Okay, so it's your opinion that they are not important and have no influence. That is all I needed to know.

I was not asking you about how Judaism has changed.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 03:56:27 PM
Quote from: Johan on July 20, 2014, 03:21:58 PM
'The fuck? Are you high?
If you can find any Catholic country that practices the burning of heretics, outlawing other religions, exiling Jews or forcing Jews into ghettos, or declare a crusade against instead infidels,  or if you can find any Inquisition or Inquisitor courts, your point might hold some water.

the Catholic Church is working overtime to correct the sexual abuse scandals, and end Religious bigotry by becoming more and more  ecumenical.

I would encourage you to be more educated on this matter before you accuse me of being an ignorant intoxicated imbecile.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on July 20, 2014, 04:57:24 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 12:23:12 PM
are you always faithful to your moral code?
Yes, because my moral code consists of general guidelines rather than strict dos and do nots.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on July 20, 2014, 05:19:32 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 03:56:27 PM
If you can find any Catholic country that practices the burning of heretics, outlawing other religions, exiling Jews or forcing Jews into ghettos, or declare a crusade against instead infidels,  or if you can find any Inquisition or Inquisitor courts, your point might hold some water.

the Catholic Church is working overtime to correct the sexual abuse scandals, and end Religious bigotry by becoming more and more  ecumenical.

I would encourage you to be more educated on this matter before you accuse me of being an ignorant intoxicated imbecile.

http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/its-2013-and-theyre-burning-witches/558/

New Guinea. Which is predominantly Christian. Catholics at 27% are the highest number of Christians. Witch burning is based on ignorance and fears based on ancient beliefs. there is nothing saying that the Catholic church in New Guines is combatting it.

witch burning is done by religious people. Atheists don't burn witches. The fact that any sect or denomination of Christianity can justify such practices is evidence of how backward it is.

Witches have been hunted and tortured in Africa by Assemblies of God factions and others. The fact that it isn't Catholic per se also doesn't indicate that any group of Catholics spoke out specifically against it.

The Pope didn't even consider advocating condom usage to stop AIDS until 2010
http://churchandstate.org.uk/2012/12/the-catholic-church-condoms-and-hiv-aids-in-africa/

So yes, the stand of the church against condoms was a factor in the spread of AIDS. And that comes from the Pope, the head guy. Your opinion means nothing in that instance. So much for the vicar of Christ being the mouthpiece of god.

I would encourage you on being more educated on the matter before you start declaring how benign your religion is.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Green Bottle on July 20, 2014, 07:04:53 PM
Fact is, ur nic implies that you are on a crusade to save or indoctrinate the rest of us, dont fuckin bother cos we know what the catholic church is all about, abuse and cover ups, so dont come in here preaching to us with all ur bullshite because i for one aint interested in anything you got to say.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: PickelledEggs on July 20, 2014, 07:12:22 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 12:23:12 PM
are you always faithful to your moral code?

Ooooh! Ooooh! I'll answer this one too!

Yes. I am ALWAYS faithful to my moral code. Because its MY moral code tailored to me by myself.

In 25 years I never hurt anyone and only wrestled one person to the ground. And that one time that happened was because I was in danger.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on July 20, 2014, 07:22:41 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 01:19:56 PM
Jews no longer have the priesthood, the victim, or the sacrifices.  They also no longer stone adulterers.  They do not have the same priest hood and those are just a few of the differences.

Catholicism resembles ancient Judaism more than any other Religion today.
So you make blood sacrifices, stone adulterers, and do all that old testiment stuff? Cool.

Oh wait. You don't. You can't even burn the odd witch at the stake anymore, can you?

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 01:19:56 PM
The Catholic Church has a 2000 year unbreakable chain of Popes dating back to the 1st century,
Yawn. The Japanese monarchy has an unbreaking chain of emperors dating back to the 6th century... BC.

Remember, the Japanese emperor was revered as a god right up through WWII.

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 01:19:56 PM
How influential is the queen of England or any surviving monarch today?  Tiny compared to the Pope.
I don't know. Emperor Hirohito of Japan controlled half of the Pacific as recently as 1942. That was a pretty good Showa-ing, and in living memory.

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 01:19:56 PM
The media and the world listen to the Pope even if they don't agree with him.
As they would Adolf Hitler.

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 01:19:56 PM
Time magazine voted Pope Francis the man of the year for instance.
So was Adolf Hitler (1938), Joseph Stalin (1939, 1942), Nikita Krushchev (1957), and Ayatullah Khomeini (1979). You don't make the list necessarily because you done good.

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 03:56:27 PM
If you can find any Catholic country that practices the burning of heretics, outlawing other religions, exiling Jews or forcing Jews into ghettos, or declare a crusade against instead infidels,  or if you can find any Inquisition or Inquisitor courts, your point might hold some water.
But you admit it did happen. Also, it stopped, not because you did it on your own, but secular governments forced you to cut that shit out.

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 03:56:27 PM
the Catholic Church is working overtime to correct the sexual abuse scandals, and end Religious bigotry by becoming more and more  ecumenical.
So long as the Church keeps sheltering pedo-priests from the police and continue to flaunt their opulant wealth in their ceremonies, this will be a lie.

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 03:56:27 PM
I would encourage you to be more educated on this matter before you accuse me of being an ignorant intoxicated imbecile.
So long as you continue to spew your bullshit, this will continue.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on July 20, 2014, 07:32:34 PM
Oh and don't leave out Mother Teresa

http://knowledgenuts.com/2013/09/27/mother-teresa-was-a-crook-and-a-fraud/
QuoteMother Teresa is famed for being one of history’s true altruists. She devoted her life to the poor, opening her first Missionaries of Charity home in 1950s Calcutta, and going on to open hundreds more across the world. As word of her mission spread, it caught the public imagination and millions of dollars began to pour in, all of which went to help those who needed it most. At least, that’s the official version.

The reality is far grimmer. According to those who’ve volunteered there, Mother Teresa’s missions are squalid cesspits run along violent, authoritarian lines. There are reports of unruly children being tied to beds and beaten, of outdated equipment not being replaced, and of needles being reused in countries with high HIV infection rates (such as Haiti) until they were so blunt they caused pain. All of this wrapped up in a culture of unquestioning obedience, secrecy, and control that is said to resemble a cult.

This might all be okay if the Missionaries were doing some good, but they’re not. In 1991, German magazine Stern revealed that only 7 percent of donations to the organization were used for charity. The rest was funneled into secret bank accounts or used to build more missions. There are reports that missions won’t even buy bread to feed their inmates, preferring instead to rely only on donated food.

And where does all this money come from? Well, some of it comes from regular, kind-hearted folk giving what they can. A heck of a lot more came from some of the most evil men who ever lived. Mother Teresa herself personally took large donations from the psychopathic Haitian dictator “Baby Doc,” publicly defending his blood-soaked rule in return. In the 1990s, fraudster Charles Keating donated $1.25 million of stolen money to the Missionaries. When asked to return the fraudulent money, Mother Teresa simply stayed silent.

Or make that Saint Teresa. My bad.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Johan on July 20, 2014, 08:52:44 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 03:56:27 PM
I would encourage you to be more educated on this matter before you accuse me of being an ignorant intoxicated imbecile.
If you don't like being called an imbecile stop acting like one.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Napolean B on July 21, 2014, 12:12:27 AM
In 1796 I commanded my Republican troops to invade Italy and defeat the papal troops.

I am NOT a religious man but I see the importance of religion as a means to increase obedience and control over my Empire.  Catholicism Is the official religion of my Empire. If the majority of the people in my Empire were Jews , I would rebuild the Temple of Solomon.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Shiranu on July 21, 2014, 12:55:50 AM
Because this has just come to mind, I actually have a question for you...

...how does the RCC, which is mildly sexually puritan and repressive in thought (though to be fair, less so than certain other sects) deal with the themes presented in the Song of Solomon? Is poetry erotica in the Bible not considered at all out of place or do they adopt the view that it is all allegory?

And assuming it is allegory (as many churches I know do)... does the church not find the thought of describing Christ/God's love for the Church/His People in such bluntly, though beautiful, sexual themes a bit... interesting... for a God that was so restrictive on sex for anything other than reproduction or business?

How do you reconcile a book of the bible going all into the details of sex (or more accurately, erotic love) and yet at the same time the RCC is all about trying to keep people from having premarital sex? It's like saying, "Here is the greatest thing in the world... I want you to never enjoy it until we give you the command!"... to me that just seems cruel and quite improbable to work.

Didn't mean to make this so long, but I kept on adding thoughts as I was writing.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: SGOS on July 21, 2014, 04:17:20 AM
Bible reading in the Catholic Church is left to the priests.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on July 21, 2014, 07:01:26 AM
Yadda yadda yadda.. Fuck, church was boring enough at 6. Did the pope send you on a special mission to finish me off with boredom? :eek:
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 21, 2014, 08:23:35 AM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on July 20, 2014, 07:22:41 PM
So you make blood sacrifices, stone adulterers, and do all that old testiment stuff? Cool.

Oh wait. You don't. You can't even burn the odd witch at the stake anymore, can you?
Yawn. The Japanese monarchy has an unbreaking chain of emperors dating back to the 6th century... BC.

Remember, the Japanese emperor was revered as a god right up through WWII.
I don't know. Emperor Hirohito of Japan controlled half of the Pacific as recently as 1942. That was a pretty good Showa-ing, and in living memory.
As they would Adolf Hitler.
So was Adolf Hitler (1938), Joseph Stalin (1939, 1942), Nikita Krushchev (1957), and Ayatullah Khomeini (1979). You don't make the list necessarily because you done good.
But you admit it did happen. Also, it stopped, not because you did it on your own, but secular governments forced you to cut that shit out.
So long as the Church keeps sheltering pedo-priests from the police and continue to flaunt their opulant wealth in their ceremonies, this will be a lie.
So long as you continue to spew your bullshit, this will continue.
The Pope is probably the most influential leader in the world.  Not only is he considered the shepherd of over a billion people but even those who  are not Catholic listen to him when he admonishes the evil in our world.  I can't tell you how often I go to open my yahoo account, and Yahoo is not a Catholic website, and how often there is a quote from the Pope there.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: PickelledEggs on July 21, 2014, 08:31:27 AM
CC, do you believe in exorcisms?

Sent from your mom

Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 21, 2014, 08:45:50 AM
Quote
Yes.  This forum needs to be exorcised!  ;)
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: PickelledEggs on July 21, 2014, 08:46:37 AM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 21, 2014, 08:45:50 AM
Yes.  This forum needs to be exorcised!
:lol:

But seriously...

Sent from your mom

Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 21, 2014, 08:48:50 AM
Yes I do. 
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 21, 2014, 08:57:01 AM
Quotethe song is both the intuition and the experience of the search for the unique beyond every veil. He too is likewise fascinated searrching for him or her whom he has chosen - one who is all for him and irreplaceable, this discovery of Yahweh, the fierce God as the spouse, is not entirely new in the Bible. The prophets relied on their conjugal experience to speak about the covenant of God with his people (Hos 1:2) Rather, they used the words of human love to express their special relationship with God. One day, this relationship was to be offered to all Israel.
'(Christian Community Bible, Catholic Pastoral edition, p.1051)

Quote from: Shiranu on July 21, 2014, 12:55:50 AM
Because this has just come to mind, I actually have a question for you...

...how does the RCC, which is mildly sexually puritan and repressive in thought (though to be fair, less so than certain other sects) deal with the themes presented in the Song of Solomon? Is poetry erotica in the Bible not considered at all out of place or do they adopt the view that it is all allegory?

And assuming it is allegory (as many churches I know do)... does the church not find the thought of describing Christ/God's love for the Church/His People in such bluntly, though beautiful, sexual themes a bit... interesting... for a God that was so restrictive on sex for anything other than reproduction or business?

How do you reconcile a book of the bible going all into the details of sex (or more accurately, erotic love) and yet at the same time the RCC is all about trying to keep people from having premarital sex? It's like saying, "Here is the greatest thing in the world... I want you to never enjoy it until we give you the command!"... to me that just seems cruel and quite improbable to work.

Didn't mean to make this so long, but I kept on adding thoughts as I was writing.
The Church views the song of Solomon also as the language of the heart and Gods relationship with our souls.  Ill answer your question further later if I can hopefully.

Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: SGOS on July 21, 2014, 09:30:59 AM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 21, 2014, 08:57:01 AM
'(Christian Community Bible, Catholic Pastoral edition, p.1051)
The Church views the song of Solomon also as the language of the heart and Gods relationship with our souls.  Ill answer your question further later if I can hopefully.
What everyone here really wants to know is how often to you crap and fart?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 21, 2014, 09:36:02 AM
I think on average I have two successful bowel movements a day.   I'm guessing very roughly an average between five to ten farts.

(If this answer is sufficient, please press the red  like switch located in the lower lefthand corner.  Gratias tibi ago)
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: SGOS on July 21, 2014, 09:39:22 AM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 21, 2014, 09:36:02 AM
I think on average I have two successful bowel movements a day.   I'm guessing very roughly an average between five to ten farts.
You finally said something that is believable.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 21, 2014, 09:46:05 AM
The founding Fathers knew better than to leave a constitution without an interpreter. They set up a Supreme Court for that purpose. And do you think that the all-wise God would be less careful in a matter of even greater importance where the salvation of millions of immortal souls is at stake?

Most assuredly not. He, too, set up a "Supreme Court," to guide and teach His people, and to interpret the law for them. In the Old Testament, God chose Moses to deliver His people, the Israelites, from the Egyptians, and to rule over them during their 40 years of wandering in the desert towards the promised land.

In the Book of Numbers, Chap. 27, verses 12-23, as the time of his death approaches, Moses asks God to "provide a man that may be over this multitude and may lead them out, or bring them in: lest the people of the Lord be as sheep without a shepherd. And the Lord said to him: Take Joshua- a man in whom is the Spirit - and put thy hand upon him ... that all the congregation of the children of Israel may hear him... he and all the children of Israel with him,And in the Book of Deuteronomy, Moses was repeating and expounding to the Israelites the ordinances given on Mt. Sinai, with other precepts not expressed before...And thou shall come to the priests of the Levitical race, and to the judge that shall be at that time.

And thou shalt ask of them. And they shall shew thee the truth of the judgment. "And thou shalt do whatsoever they shall say, that preside in the place, which the Lord shall choose, and what they shall teach thee, according to His law.

And thou shalt follow their sentence: neither shalt thou decline to the right hand nor to the left hand. But he that will be proud, and refuse to obey the commandment of the priest, who ministereth at that time to the Lord thy God (i.e., the high priest), and the decree of the judge: that man shall die . . ." --GodAnd the footnote, Douay Bible, to this Ordinance states: "Here we see what authority God was pleased to give to the church guides of the Old Testament, in deciding without appeal, all controversies relating to the law, promising that they should not err therein; and surely he has not done less for the church guides of the New Testament."quote author=Hakurei Reimu
Quotek=topic=5718.msg1032203#msg1032203 date=1405826736]

[Why do you think that you're any more qualified to answer questions about catholicism than the infamous catholic idiot with the user-name 'Eve' was?

What made the Catholic church qualified to choose the first biblical canon?

Why should a protestant trust a papal definitive and summary pronouncement of scripture over any live, evolving scholarly discussion of said scripture?
Maybe I'm not qualified and you know more about it than me.  If if that is the case then how much more lucky am I that I get to learn more.

We believe the Catholic Church chose the correct Canon because we believe that the Holy Spirit Guides the ecumenical councils.  God set up a supreme court.

Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: GSOgymrat on July 21, 2014, 12:00:15 PM
I could never be Catholic because I don't have an ingrained sense of guilt. Many Catholics seem to feel guilty about everything and I get the impression they see suffering as noble or admirable. When you look at the saints they are all canonized for keeping their faith while experiencing suffering or a horrific demise. I had a Catholic friend tell me when everything was going well and he had a sense of joy it was followed by guilt because deep down he felt that he didn't deserve happiness and how could he be happy when there are so many people suffering in the world. I can tell you such a thought has never entered my brain.

I think this perspective on life is a major difference between Christians and me. Christians believe in original sin, that people are inherently flawed, that life in the physical world is essentially corrupting and only through accepting Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior can people be truly content. I don't believe that at all, in the core of what I am I don't believe that. I don't believe people are inherently flawed, I don't believe the world is essentially bad, I don't believe life is a pass/fail test followed by a punishment or reward and if people need to be saved it is other people who should do the saving. It is a value difference that cannot be reconciled and is why I will never have "Christian values."
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 21, 2014, 12:07:44 PM
Quote from: GSOgymrat on July 21, 2014, 12:00:15 PM
I could never be Catholic because I don't have an ingrained sense of guilt. Many Catholics seem to feel guilty about everything and I get the impression they see suffering as noble or admirable. When you look at the saints they are all canonized for keeping their faith while experiencing suffering or a horrific demise. I had a Catholic friend tell me when everything was going well and he had a sense of joy it was followed by guilt because deep down he felt that he didn't deserve happiness and how could he be happy when there are so many people suffering in the world. I can tell you such a thought has never entered my brain.

I think this perspective on life is a major difference between Christians and me. Christians believe in original sin, that people are inherently flawed, that life in the physical world is essentially corrupting and only through accepting Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior can people be truly content. I don't believe that at all, in the core of what I am I don't believe that. I don't believe people are inherently flawed, I don't believe the world is essentially bad, I don't believe life is a pass/fail test followed by a punishment or reward and if people need to be saved it is other people who should do the saving. It is a value difference that cannot be reconciled and is why I will never have "Christian values."
I don't believe in Selfflagellation  or seeking out suffering.  But I do believe no pain no gain.  To become an Olympic gymnast or any type of Olympic athlete requires much suffering and self discipline.

The most important lessons I have learned in life took place through suffering.  If it weren't for all of my flaws and suffering , I wouldn't be as a compassionate or understanding towards other people that are going through similar grief or trials.

Life is full of suffering and disappointments and in the end you get sick,  you fall apart, you lose loved ones and relationships that you treasure, and your die.  Since there is so much suffering in the world, the people who have a positive attitude about suffering are going to be the most strongest to the end and and have the best health provided that they aren't seeking out suffering  or inflicting it intentionally upon themselves but accepting it when it comes.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Bibliofagus on July 21, 2014, 12:23:50 PM
Hi. I have a question.





Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: GSOgymrat on July 21, 2014, 12:28:15 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 21, 2014, 12:07:44 PM
But I do believe no pain no gain.  To become an Olympic gymnast or any type of Olympic athlete requires much suffering and self discipline.

The most important lessons I have learned in life took place through suffering.  If it weren't for all of my flaws and suffering , I wouldn't be as a compassionate or understanding towards other people that are going through similar grief or trials.

Life is full of suffering and disappointments and in the end you get sick,  you fall apart, you lose loved ones and relationships that you treasure, and your die.  Since there is so much suffering in the world, the people who have a positive attitude about suffering are going to be the most strongest to the end and and have the best health provided that they aren't seeking out suffering  or inflicting it intentionally upon themselves but accepting it when it comes.

I agree.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: leo on July 21, 2014, 12:40:15 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 21, 2014, 08:23:35 AM
The Pope is probably the most influential leader in the world.  Not only is he considered the shepherd of over a billion people but even those who  are not Catholic listen to him when he admonishes the evil in our world.  I can't tell you how often I go to open my yahoo account, and Yahoo is not a Catholic website, and how often there is a quote from the Pope there.
The Pope is the leader of 1.3 billion catholics . 1.3 billion out of the total world population of 7 billion. In Asia close to 4 billion people don't give a shit of what the Pope says. In Europe most people don't give a shit about the Pope either. Catholism is a dead religion in Europe. Most baptized catholics( in catholic countries ) in Europe  don't give a shit about their native religion. Catholicism is a minority in USA . The only area that catholicism is still influential is latin America. The Pope is pretty famous in the world , I give you that. Influential ? Only in your dreams. Worldwide most people don't give a shit what the Pope says or they don't  take him seriously. Face it kid. Catholicism is a dying religion.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Jason Harvestdancer on July 21, 2014, 02:14:10 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 19, 2014, 08:37:37 PMMost of what people think is extremely Unchristian (Satanic) about the Church like Mariology, confession of sin to a priest, the sacrifice of the mass, seven sacraments, communion of Saints, Holy images etc. was practiced by the Roman Catholics, Eastern Catholics, Coptic, and Orthodox Churches......so if those practices are Satanic and therefore not Christian as many claim, that would mean that every Christian Church on the face of the earth was propagating Satanic practices and therefore, there was not a Christian Church the earth before the 16th Century.if you follow that philosophy

Although I disagree with their hypothesis, the Baptists do have a belief that they use to counter that Catholic claim.  Many subscribe to a belief called Landmarkism, which posts an unbroken chain through various historical "heretical" sects back to before the founding of the Catholic Church.

They use this to say that the whole time the Catholic Church was dominant, there were still "true Christians" in existence, persecuted by your church.

Of course I find their claims specious, especially given the variety of sects they trace their lineage through (and the fact that the Waldenses still exist and claim no connection to the Baptists) as many of those sects had a great variety of interesting beliefs.  Although the Catholics did consider "denying the Pope and the Church" to be heresy,  there is more heresy than that out there and the other heresies were also punishes.

If you want to reach out to Protestants, you might want to consider looking into the idea of Landmarkism, you will eventually have to develop counter-arguments to it.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Contemporary Protestant on July 21, 2014, 02:25:10 PM
I actually have another question, why are so many catholics less aware of protestant beliefs than protestants are of catholics

For example, i at least k what mass is but my catholic friend thought i worshipped in a temple and this friend didnt k that protestants are also christians
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: leo on July 21, 2014, 02:49:11 PM
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on July 21, 2014, 02:25:10 PM
I actually have another question, why are so many catholics less aware of protestant beliefs than protestants are of catholics

For example, i at least k what mass is but my catholic friend thought i worshipped in a temple and this friend didnt k that protestants are also christians
Many protestant sects don't consider catholics to be christians. Go figure. Many protestants have a poor knowledge of other religions too.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Contemporary Protestant on July 21, 2014, 02:55:33 PM
I ask because with catechism and all their money, i dont see how many of them dont have a basic education on other sects
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: leo on July 21, 2014, 03:07:47 PM
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on July 21, 2014, 02:55:33 PM
I ask because with catechism and all their money, i dont see how many of them dont have a basic education on other sects
Catholic schools use their religion class to indoctrinate or brainwash. They study world religions very brief with the  biased point of view of the catholic church using  their religion book class. Long story short. The catholic church want their flock ignorant of other religions. Also they want the flock ignorant of their own religion. The same thing happens in protestant schools.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Contemporary Protestant on July 21, 2014, 03:23:07 PM
I would say there are exceptions

Ive been to protestant school and they have experts (not our head pastor) talk about foreign religions and a course in cultural sensitivty
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on July 21, 2014, 04:28:43 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 21, 2014, 08:23:35 AM
The Pope is probably the most influential leader in the world.  Not only is he considered the shepherd of over a billion people but even those who  are not Catholic listen to him when he admonishes the evil in our world.
If by "listen to him," you mean, give him some screen time, and then go about their business as if he hadn't said anything, then I agree with you. I don't know how you call this "influence."

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 21, 2014, 08:23:35 AM
I can't tell you how often I go to open my yahoo account, and Yahoo is not a Catholic website, and how often there is a quote from the Pope there.
So?

Edit: Actually, let me elaborate on that. Yahoo tracks your history through their website. As such, they've probably have pegged you as a Catholic, thus have deduced that the Pope is something you really appreciate reading about, so you see Pope-quotes. The fact that Yahoo generates pages for you targeted for your tastes has very little to do with how much political influence the Pope actually has.

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 21, 2014, 09:46:05 AM
We believe the Catholic Church chose the correct Canon because we believe that the Holy Spirit Guides the ecumenical councils.  God set up a supreme court.
That is a statement of belief, not of fact. I ask again, because you have not answered this question despite the stated purpose of this thread: what made the Catholic church qualified to choose the first biblical canon?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Poison Tree on July 21, 2014, 06:09:08 PM
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on July 21, 2014, 02:25:10 PM
I actually have another question, why are so many catholics less aware of protestant beliefs than protestants are of catholics
If I had to guess I'd say it is because there is one catholic church and hundreds (thousands) of protestant denominations and protestant churches tend to spend some time talking about why they aren't catholic--ie their theological/organizational grounds for splitting. I bet both are not very aware about the beliefs of Orthodox or Coptic or Ethiopian Christians (or other protestants, for that matter).
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Contemporary Protestant on July 21, 2014, 06:13:54 PM
I am aware they exist, im specifically talking about how some catholics have never heard of a baptist
Or methodists
If u live in the bible belt, thats kinda something to k
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: lilith666 on July 21, 2014, 06:48:54 PM
So what all does the Pope wear besides the golden miter , the white dress, and Dorothy's red shoes?

Also why do Catholics have so many talismans, relics, and  lucky charms?  Why do you chop of Saints and collect pieces of their bones and distribute them everywhere and have their skulls on display?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: SGOS on July 21, 2014, 07:58:43 PM
Quote from: lilith666 on July 21, 2014, 06:48:54 PM
So what all does the Pope wear besides the golden miter , the white dress, and Dorothy's red shoes?

Also why do Catholics have so many talismans, relics, and  lucky charms?  Why do you chop of Saints and collect pieces of their bones and distribute them everywhere and have their skulls on display?
The whole of Christianity is oddly morbid, dwelling on sin, punishment, death, and the bones of ancients.  It's icon is of a man nailed to a cross with blood flowing from his wounds.  Holy Mother of clinical depression.  It's just awful.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Napolean B on July 21, 2014, 09:37:27 PM
Why does the Catholic Poper keep defining more and more and more dogmas and why did the church at one time teach no salvation outside the church and now after Vatican two preach universal salvation.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on July 22, 2014, 06:32:18 AM
Quote from: SGOS on July 21, 2014, 07:58:43 PM
The whole of Christianity is oddly morbid, dwelling on sin, punishment, death, and the bones of ancients.  It's icon is of a man nailed to a cross with blood flowing from his wounds.  Holy Mother of clinical depression.  It's just awful.

The funny/morbid part is.. in order to be a 'true' christian, you have to commit to everything it teaches, including making your wife into a slave, having her beaten to death if she even looks at another man, stoning gays anyone else who isn't 100% straight, following the voices in your head that allows you to kill your own children, killing more women who show signs of pagan belief... and all this comes from what the bible tells you to act like, its not just some psychopaths interpretation of the bible, its what the book actually wants you to do in order to be considered a 'good christian'.


When you look at news reports of what is happening right now in middle eastern countries, like Iran or Pakistan, what you are seeing there is an example of how people where when they invented christianity, the insanity of their primitive tribal practices all in the name of an imaginary creature in their minds.

There was no divine practice, no stories of wonder like the kiddies version of the bible would teach, it was just a group of tribesmen who made up stories and got some followers to believe in it too. We see it there now, maybe in their desperation to living in such a sparse country, but that doesn't mean the advanced world in other countries need to bow to those primitive ideas.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: SGOS on July 22, 2014, 07:29:53 AM
Quote from: Munch on July 22, 2014, 06:32:18 AM
When you look at news reports of what is happening right now in middle eastern countries, like Iran or Pakistan, what you are seeing there is an example of how people where when they invented christianity, the insanity of their primitive tribal practices all in the name of an imaginary creature in their minds.
Both Christianity and Islam were created in ancient times by woefully uniformed barbarians.  It's not surprising that their solutions to conflict and non compliance should be killing and death.  And it is not surprising that they are obsessed with human misery inflicted by barbaric icons real or imagined.  They popped up, practically out of thin air, in the presence of pestilence and helplessness.  And it's not surprising they fabricated an eventual life of eternal bliss, as a way of dealing with the chaos around them.

As civilization advances and man increases his knowledge base, ancient practices and beliefs are cast aside.  Religion morphs, even Christianity and Islam, but the primitive beliefs and practices that have been institutionalized by those religions lag behind the other advancements of mankind in a state of willful ignorance.  They are forced to change eventually, but they act as a brake, often lagging behind by a thousand years.

Religion has horrible consequences for mankind in that regard.  It runs contrary to the needs of a shrinking world with an increasing population that by necessity becomes diversified and must learn to cooperate to survive.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on July 22, 2014, 12:18:06 PM
Mmmm.... so let's review. Lets see, WW2  interaction with the Nazis
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~confido/catholic.html

QuoteYears later it became public knowledge that war criminals like Klaus Barbie, Adolf Eichmann, Heinrich Mueller, Josef Bluemle, Franz Stangl and a whole list of other war criminals escaped war torn Europe via the Catholic Church. Most of these men escaped through the work of one man, a Roman Catholic Bishop named Alois Hudal, Rector of the Pontificio Santa Maria dell’ Anima. "During the war Hudal served as Commissioner or the Episcopate for German speaking Catholics in Italy, as well as Father Confessor to Rome’s German community."  Hudal harbored anti-Semitic feelings and his pro Nazi stance was well known throughout the Catholic community. During Hitler’s rule, Bishop Hudal often spoke about the unity between the Catholic Church and the Nazi government.

Pope Benedict shielding pedophile priests before becoming pope
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/03/more-evidence-emerges-tha_n_524192.html

QuoteThe details of the two cases come as other allegations emerge that Benedict â€" as a Vatican cardinal â€" was part of a culture of cover-up and confidentiality.

"There's no doubt that Ratzinger delayed the defrocking process of dangerous priests who were deemed 'satanic' by their own bishop," Lynne Cadigan, an attorney who represented two of Teta's victims, said Friday.

And when the media starts telling the story, resigns and disappears from view.

Mother Teresa, a personal fave:
http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2013/03/05/a-new-expose-on-mother-teresa-shows-that-she-and-the-vatican-were-even-worse-than-we-thought/

Quote1.  The woman was in love with suffering and simply didn’t take care of her charges, many of whom fruitlessly sought medical care.

2. She was tightfisted about helping others, sequestered money donated for her work, and took money from dictators.

3. She was deliberately promoted by BBC journalist Malcolm Muggeridge (a fellow anti-abortionist), and her beatification was based on phony miracles.

And how does the Catholic church handle a bad apple? Waive the waiting period for sainthood and beatify her. Gotta love the strategy.

Aannnddd HIV/AIDS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_HIV/AIDS#Condom_controversy

QuoteThe condom is widely accepted by medical and administrative authorities as the most reliable way to stop the spread of AIDS.[18] The Catholic Church instead emphasizes "education towards sexual responsibility", focusing on partner fidelity rather than the use of condoms as the primary means of preventing the transmission of AIDS.[19] The Church's position is that all responsible sex must occur within the framework of a faithful, monogamous marriage. In addition, various members of the Church hierarchy have pointed out that condoms have a non-zero risk of transmitting AIDS.

Church officials argue that reliance on condoms to prevent transmission of AIDS can result in a false sense of security because of the problem of "leakage and breakage". Other more serious claims have been made, however. In 2003, contrary to empirical evidence, the president of the Vatican's Pontifical Council for the Family - "senior spokesman" Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo - claimed that condoms are permeable to the aids virus. He explained to BBC interviewers that "The Aids virus is roughly 450 times smaller than the spermatozoon. The spermatozoon can easily pass through the 'net' that is formed by the condom." These false claims were echoed by an archbishop of Nairobi, as well as by Catholics as far Asia and Latin America. Also according to The Guardian, the BBC confirmed that this misinformation has real, damaging effects at the ground level.[20]

John Paul II's position against artificial birth control, including the use of condoms to prevent the spread of HIV,[21] was harshly criticised by doctors and AIDS activists, who said that it led to countless deaths and millions of AIDS orphans.[22] Critics have also claimed that large families are caused by lack of contraception and exacerbate Third World poverty and problems such as street children in South America.

On 15 November 1989, John Paul II addressed the 4th International Conference of the Pontifical Council for the Pastoral Care of Health Care Workers[23] in the following terms : it seems profoundly damaging to the dignity of the human being, and for this reason morally illicit, to support a prevention of AIDS that is based on a recourse to means and remedies that violate an authentically human sense of sexuality, and which are a palliative to the deeper suffering which involve the responsibility of individuals and of society.[24] This was interpreted in May 1990 by the Roman Catholic bishops of Madagascar as a "solemn reminder" giving ground for their view that in the context of positions such as that of cardinal Lustiger who stated that it was a "lesser evil", "the condom remains a 'moral evil'".[24]


Oh gee golly there Captain Crunch. Benign much? Try a homphobic, antiquated institution that has done everything to cover up its own corrupt behavior, hidden away people who committed egregious act of pederasty and who knows what crap, victimized the poor and physically acted in a way that spread disease and poverty in 3rd world countries. That is the Catholic church WE know. So you can keep your version, Crunch boy..
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Thackerie on July 22, 2014, 04:17:24 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 12:23:12 PM
are you always faithful to your moral code?

Yes! Of course, it's MY moral code -- not something imposed on me -- so obviously I follow it.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on July 22, 2014, 07:28:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAn7baRbhx4
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 22, 2014, 08:12:54 PM
We are aware that a good luck charm is associated with the occult and whatever power it contains comes from Hell.A Pagan might carry a talisman for good luck and protection but what if a Christian carries or wears an item that they believe the grace of God will work through. Is it satanic or is there Biblical basis for such a practice? 

In the Bible the grace of God worked miracles through the Ark of the Covenant (graven image), bronze serpent (graven image), golden Cherubim and Seraphim (graven images), The blessed hankerchiefs (third class relics), Pauls aprons (Acts 19:11-12), Elija's mantle (2 Kings 2:8), Moses' staff, the robe of Jesus, the use of holy water (numbers 5), holy oil, and a dead man was raised to life by touching the bones of Elisha (first class relic) 2 Kings 13:21.

In the Bible we see examples where the grace of God either healed people or worked miracles through holy images, blessed items, music, oil, water, rock, dirt, bone, clothing and other material things. It is also Biblical that those items can cast out demons; by the grace of God working through them of course.

That is one reason why the chief excorcist of Rome has noted that possessed people have an aversion and horror for holy images, sacramentals, and blessed items.So there is plenty of Biblical basis that the grace of God can work through crucifixes, medals, rosaries, holy water, blessed oil, blessed sacramentals, icons, and relics. It's not being superstitious, It's Biblical. 

Another bonus to being Catholic is we have a larger arsenal and take advantage of more of the weapons offered to us.The Ark of the Covenant was necessary to bring down the walls of Jericho, Peters shadow healed people (the shadow must have been necessary ), sometimes the touch of the apostles or their words were necessary, remember also that Jesus used dirt and spittle on occasion (dirt and spittle were necessary.).

..Naman had to plunge into the Jordan seven times to be healed of his leprosy, obediance was necessary, Elijah's cloak was necessary to part the waters 2 Kings 2:8, The staff of Moses was necessary at times, Elisha's bones were necessary to bring the dead man back to life 2 Kings 13:21Exodus 25:2222 There I will meet with you, and from above the mercy seat, from betweenthe two cherubim (graven images) that are on the ark of the testimony, I will speak with you about all that I will give you in commandment for the people of Israel.

Interesting at this time where, how, and by what means God chose to communicate with his people.In the OT God spoke to the Israelites from the midst of the two Cherubim (graven images) atop the Ark of the Covenant.

Israelites prostrated before the Ark not to worship the graven images but to worship the God who chose to dwell there.Mary is a temple of the Holy Spirit and we dont worship her but the God who dwells within His temple and the Ark of the New Covenant. God works in mysterious ways through mysterious means.

Catech of the CC:

2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to ‘unveil’ the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honour, respect and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

2117 All practices of magic or sorcery by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. 

Wearing charms is also reprehensible.Spiritism often implies divination or magic practices: the Church for her part warns the faithful against it."

Quote from: lilith666 on July 21, 2014, 06:48:54 PM
So what all does the Pope wear besides the golden miter , the white dress, and Dorothy's red shoes?

Also why do Catholics have so many talismans, relics, and  lucky charms?  Why do you chop of Saints and collect pieces of their bones and distribute them everywhere and have their skulls on display?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 22, 2014, 08:20:35 PM
Quote from: SGOS on July 21, 2014, 07:58:43 PM
The whole of Christianity is oddly morbid, dwelling on sin, punishment, death, and the bones of ancients.  It's icon is of a man nailed to a cross with blood flowing from his wounds.  Holy Mother of clinical depression.  It's just awful.
All of us are called to carry th cross.   We are to keep our eyes on the  resurrection which does not take place unless the crucifixion takes place first.  Our suffering as the body of Christ is a participation in the redemption of salvation and glory in the resurrection of Christ.  God also has victim souls whose primary vocation is suffering and offering up this suffering  in expiation for the sins of the world.

becoming Like Christ in  his suffering and death , we also attain the glorious Resurrection.  Suffering is a way of becoming like Christ whose vocation and mission was to suffer and die for sin.   As paul said, to die is gain. This philosophy will help us enough to not be crushed, discouraged, or lose our peace in times of adversity.

Haven't you ever found yourself in suffering and adversity yet there was quite a joy about it?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Icarus on July 22, 2014, 09:14:21 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 22, 2014, 08:20:35 PM
All of us are called to carry th cross.   We are to keep our eyes on the  resurrection which does not take place unless the crucifixion takes place first.  Our suffering as the body of Christ is a participation in the redemption of salvation and glory in the resurrection of Christ.  God also has victim souls whose primary vocation is suffering and offering up this suffering  in expiation for the sins of the world.

becoming Like Christ in  his suffering and death , we also attain the glorious Resurrection.  Suffering is a way of becoming like Christ whose vocation and mission was to suffer and die for sin.   As paul said, to die is gain. This philosophy will help us enough to not be crushed, discouraged, or lose our peace in times of adversity.

Haven't you ever found yourself in suffering and adversity yet there was quite a joy about it?

Masochists were around centuries before Jesus, he didn't make it hip and trendy.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: SGOS on July 22, 2014, 09:26:31 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 22, 2014, 08:12:54 PM
In the Bible we see examples where the grace of God either healed people or worked miracles through holy images, blessed items, music, oil, water, rock, dirt, bone,...

That is one reason why the chief excorcist of Rome has noted that possessed people have an aversion and horror for holy images, sacramentals, and blessed items...

Another bonus to being Catholic is we have a larger arsenal and take advantage of more of the weapons offered to us....

All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to ‘unveil’ the future.

All practices of magic or sorcery by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion...

Wearing charms is also reprehensible.Spiritism often implies divination or magic practices: the Church for her part warns the faithful against it."

You realize of course that you're full of shit, even for a Catholic.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on July 22, 2014, 09:34:54 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 19, 2014, 10:03:03 PM
The Catholic Church does not teach that it is a sin to be homosexual .

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/homosexuality

The first two lines say "homosexuality is a sin".

They must not be real Catholics at catholics.com, huh?

-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on July 22, 2014, 09:37:45 PM
Quote from: PickelledEggs on July 20, 2014, 03:23:24 AM
What does an organization being long lasting and influential have to do with it's accuracy?

Sent from your mom


Well, if it's true then we all should be Hindus since it's the oldest continuous religion known.

-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on July 22, 2014, 10:32:39 PM
Wow, what a load of horse manure. You are continually quoting from the bible which is demonstrably a work of fiction. Who cares that you "are required to carry the cross?" This is an atheist forum. What you are doing on here amounts to farting in a windstorm. You really, seriously need to get a life. What an exercise in pointlessness.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on July 22, 2014, 10:40:44 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 22, 2014, 08:12:54 PM
We are aware that a good luck charm is associated with the occult and whatever power it contains comes from Hell. A Pagan might carry a talisman for good luck and protection but what if a Christian carries or wears an item that they believe the grace of God will work through. Is it satanic or is there Biblical basis for such a practice?
The notion that any of the pagan talismen derive their power from hell is completely a Christian notion. By and large, talismen carried for good luck and protection have powers coming from good spirits and gods, not from any entity the pagan considers to be evil.

The power of talismen and holy symbols have the same source: psychology. The specific source of that power is immaterial.

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 22, 2014, 08:12:54 PM
So there is plenty of Biblical basis that the grace of God can work through crucifixes, medals, rosaries, holy water, blessed oil, blessed sacramentals, icons, and relics. It's not being superstitious, It's Biblical.
Who the fuck cares about the biblical basis for your superstitious practices and trinkets? You are being superstitious. You just have a biblical basis for that superstition.

Your cheif exorcist is seeing people who, while "possessed," are also Catholic themselves and are thus primed to believing that the holy images, sacraments, etc. are imbued with holy power, and themselves as being controlled by unholy creatures, and react accordingly. Atheists don't get possessed.

What you call "possession" is mental illness and disturbance, having natural causes and their roots in psychology, and only mistaken for magical control by some otherworldly being because of outdated superstition. Since the source of these disturbances is in psychology, and the power of Catholic talismen is purely psychological, it should be no surprise that Catholic talismen have an effect on psychological disorders.

In short, possession by an otherworldly entity has never been observed, let alone alleviated by the action of any Catholic talismen.

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 22, 2014, 08:12:54 PM
Another bonus to being Catholic is we have a larger arsenal and take advantage of more of the weapons offered to us.The Ark of the Covenant was necessary to bring down the walls of Jericho, Peters shadow healed people (the shadow must have been necessary ), sometimes the touch of the apostles or their words were necessary, remember also that Jesus used dirt and spittle on occasion (dirt and spittle were necessary.).

<snip>
Bullshit. The bible is not a source of history or scientific observation. It is a book of legends. None of the events you describe here have ever happened.

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 22, 2014, 08:12:54 PM
Wearing charms is also reprehensible.Spiritism often implies divination or magic practices: the Church for her part warns the faithful against it."
Translation: The Catholic Church wants no compeditors from pagan charms to overshadow catholic charms. It makes no difference whether your charms are pagan or catholic â€" they are powerless trinkets all the same.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: leo on July 22, 2014, 10:45:59 PM
I can see catholic crusader in the purgatory very soon. The question is how soon ?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Johan on July 22, 2014, 11:05:09 PM
Honestly I don't understand why anyone here is still giving this asshat the time of day.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Poison Tree on July 23, 2014, 01:44:42 AM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 22, 2014, 08:12:54 PM
remember also that Jesus used dirt and spittle on occasion (dirt and spittle were necessary.).
Wait, you are actually saying that Jesus could not have healed the blind guy without spit and dirt? I suppose that's just like how god couldn't create Adam, Eve or Jesus with out dirt, a rib or a rape, respectively.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on July 23, 2014, 01:48:00 AM
Quote from: Poison Tree on July 23, 2014, 01:44:42 AM
Wait, you are actually saying that Jesus could not have healed the blind guy without spit and dirt? I suppose that's just like how god couldn't create Adam, Eve or Jesus with out dirt, a rib or a rape, respectively.

Don't question the voodoo or hoodoo of Jesus!

-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on July 23, 2014, 10:08:14 AM
So answer my post about Mother Teresa- how do you justify a woman raising millions of dollaras and then not using it to help thousands of poor women, but instead letting them suffer in poverty? and then fast track her into sainthood to cover everything up? Or any of the others, from helping Nazis during WW2 or being against condoms and birth control?

I want a response. This is a debate forum. Respond.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Solitary on July 23, 2014, 11:00:44 AM
Oh that an easy one, she thought suffering was good because it makes you more Christ like. That's why their symbol is a crucifixion.  :wink2: Solitary
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 12:14:05 PM
Quote from: stromboli on July 23, 2014, 10:08:14 AM
So answer my post about Mother Teresa- how do you justify a woman raising millions of dollaras and then not using it to help thousands of poor women, but instead letting them suffer in poverty? and then fast track her into sainthood to cover everything up? Or any of the others, from helping Nazis during WW2 or being against condoms and birth control?

I want a response. This is a debate forum. Respond.
Who here put more effort into easing world's suffering and loving the poorest of the poor and unwanted or put forth time and effort ito their consolation than Mother Teresa , that wartants you to be so hypercritical?  She was a sinner like us all, so Im  not saying but she wasn't on multiple occasions failing to be faithful to her duties, or that she was something more than a human being.

Had It not been for her , those lepers of society would have just died in a dumpster or on the streets.  at least they got to die with dignity, comforted by another human being with  love and compassion.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Bibliofagus on July 23, 2014, 12:23:19 PM
Yeah. Because comforting beats healing right?



Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: SGOS on July 23, 2014, 12:26:08 PM
CC, Mother Teresa reminds me of General Armstrong Custer.  Hyped by the media and the government as a great and brave Indian fighter until years after his death, whereupon the truth came out, and people realized he was a sadistic egomaniac.  You might want to read up on Mother Teresa, something other than the Catholic literature.  You do realize of course that the Catholic church has a long history of hiding the truth and outright lying.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 12:43:47 PM
Quote from: stromboli on July 22, 2014, 10:32:39 PM
Wow, what a load of horse manure. You are continually quoting from the bible which is demonstrably a work of fiction. Who cares that you "are required to carry the cross?" This is an atheist forum. What you are doing on here amounts to farting in a windstorm. You really, seriously need to get a life. What an exercise in pointlessness.
I would say that, condoms & contraceptives are far more the lesser evil than unprotected sex or abortion, but the more pleasing conduct in the eyes of the church is  to have control of one's unruly passions for pleasure , which is the force behind any addiction.

If sexual intercourse were always between a man and his wife, we would almost never hear of a life threatening sexually transmitted disease.  Thanks to the sexual revolution, it has become an epidemic, and the use of condoms necessary.

Obviously wearing a condom is better than unprotected sex....  but that doesn't mean it is okay to have a sexual addiction or fornicate because now you have a method that can allow you to get away with it.

The  Pope  is morally obligated to  refuse promotion of the use of condoms , because by doing so he would also be scdvocating that it is ok too use sex for no other purpose than carnal pleasure as long as you have no risk of getting an STD.  This  would contradict the teachings of the New Testament , all the church fathers , the saints, the Docors of hthe Church, and 2000 years of Church teaching on faith and morals.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: leo on July 23, 2014, 01:17:38 PM
Obvious troll, obvious troll.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on July 23, 2014, 01:19:53 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 12:43:47 PM
I would say that, condoms & contraceptives are far more the lesser evil than unprotected sex or abortion, but the more pleasing conduct in the eyes of the church is  to have control of one's unruly passions for pleasure , which is the force behind any addiction.
You have a funny definition of "addiction." Having a libido is not an addiction, no matter how your church spins it.

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 12:43:47 PM
If sexual intercourse were always between a man and his wife, we would almost never hear of a life threatening sexually transmitted disease.  Thanks to the sexual revolution, it has become an epidemic, and the use of condoms necessary.
Sexually transmitted diseases were around long before the sexual revolution, even reaching epidemic proportions. q.v. gonorrhea, aka the clap, and syphilis. Both have been known since antiquity.

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 12:43:47 PM
Obviously wearing a condom is better than unprotected sex....  but that doesn't mean it is okay to have a sexual addiction or fornicate because now you have a method that can allow you to get away with it.
Dude, you say this as if the condom somehow promotes promiscuity. This is wrong. Humans are promiscuous, period. They're more often than not going to have many partners, condoms or not. Monogomy doesn't come natural to our species. Just look at our closest relatives: promiscuous as fuck in the case of the bonobo.

If anything, condoms discourage promiscuity, because you can't just jump in and do it.

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 12:43:47 PM
The  Pope  is morally obligated to  refuse promotion of the use of condoms , because by doing so he would also be scdvocating that it is ok too use sex for no other purpose than carnal pleasure as long as you have no risk of getting an STD.  This  would contradict the teachings of the New Testament , all the church fathers , the saints, the Docors of hthe Church, and 2000 years of Church teaching on faith and morals.
And that worked out sooo well in the case of Africa, right? Killed that promiscuity right there and clamped down on that AIDS epidemic, right?

Oh, wait, it didn't.

Your approach doesn't work, and your church is reality challenged. Or rather, the real reason you want there to be no condoms is so that girls will get pregnant and create nice little catholic babies for you, the fact that you are promoting a STD with your injunction on condoms be damned.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 01:33:54 PM
How did the Pope prevent Africans from receiving condoms? Obviously if they were fornicating to begin with , they either weren't listening to the pope, Or they heard from the pope somehow , but really didn't care what he had to say
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on July 23, 2014, 01:36:36 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 12:14:05 PM
Who here put more effort into easing world's suffering and loving the poorest of the poor and unwanted or put forth time and effort ito their consolation than Mother Teresa , that wartants you to be so hypercritical?  She was a sinner like us all, so Im  not saying but she wasn't on multiple occasions failing to be faithful to her duties, or that she was something more than a human being.

Had It not been for her , those lepers of society would have just died in a dumpster or on the streets.  at least they got to die with dignity, comforted by another human being with  love and compassion.

Mother Teresa had literally millions of dollars to fix the problems of those women and did not do so. What she did was base cruelty. She offered care and help to thousands and then withheld treatment that would have eased their suffering. This is the kind of blithering idiocy we are talking about. Forcing your will on others by way of suffering for the lord is exactly why religion is so basely evil. there is no love or compassion  when you have the means to offer ease from suffering and withhold it. Not to mention getting money from some very questionable sources, money that never found its way to help the poor. Further proof that you are a blithering idiot wearing blinders that cannot see the obvious.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on July 23, 2014, 01:38:27 PM
Why did you skip my comment? I provided a link from catholic.com, on homosexuality, specifically stating homosexuality is a sin:

QuoteEvery human being is called to receive a gift of divine sonship, to become a child of God by grace. However, to receive this gift, we must reject sin, including homosexual behaviorâ€"that is, acts intended to arouse or stimulate a sexual response regarding a person of the same sex. The Catholic Church teaches that such acts are always violations of divine and natural law.

Homosexuality is a sin. That's what I read. I mean, apparently to one or more members: I can't read properly, so if that's the case then you can you point out what it actually says?

Now, if you mention the next part:

QuoteHomosexual desires, however, are not in themselves sinful. People are subject to a wide variety of sinful desires over which they have little direct control, but these do not become sinful until a person acts upon them, either by acting out the desire or by encouraging the desire and deliberately engaging in fantasies about acting it out. People tempted by homosexual desires, like people tempted by improper heterosexual desires, are not sinning until they act upon those desires in some manner.

That tells me desiring one of the same sex isn't a sin because one does not have control over what one desires, even for heterosexuals. So, that's talking about sexual desire rather than the act itself--the act itself is the sin. Two guys acting on their desires to be with one another is the sin because for it to be a sin, homosexuality itself must be a sin as it relays in the first part, no?

They go further: it's unnatural:

QuoteThe same reasoning applies to the case of homosexual behavior. The natural sex partner for a man is a woman, and the natural sex partner for a woman is a man. Thus, people have the corresponding intuition concerning homosexuality that they do about bestialityâ€"that it is wrong because it is unnatural.

If it is shown (which it has been, many times) that homosexuality occurs in other animals--does that not make it natural or are those animals sinning because homosexuality is a sin; they're giving into their desires?

Do animals have desires?

QuoteMany homosexuals argue that they have not chosen their condition, but that they were born that way, making homosexual behavior natural for them.

All homosexuals choose to be homosexuals, it's not genetics, it's conditioning, brainwashing, abuse, indoctrination etc.,

All these things on CATHOLIC.COM tells me, a high school dropout, that homosexuality is a sin, and that's what is taught by at least these Catholics.

Maybe I read it wrong, being uneducated, and all.

-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on July 23, 2014, 01:42:38 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 01:33:54 PM
How did the Pope prevent Africans from receiving condoms? Obviously if they were fornicating to begin with , they either weren't listening to the pope, Or they heard from the pope somehow , but really didn't care what he had to say


He could have stood up and told his people that condoms were a better choice than unprotected sex. You can't stifle human libido with religious proclamations. Ask every little victim of pederasty by your priests if their libido was stopped by taking vows of chastity. Your version of birth control doesn't work and never has. By offering alternatives that promote safer sex, many lives could have been saved.

The use of condoms, as advocated by authorities in many countrties, was the primary weapon that helped to slow the rate of spread. Your pope did nothing positive that stemmed the flow, hence the epidemic in Catholic Africa. You seriously have your head stuck so far up your Catholic ass you can't see daylight, I swear.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 01:47:39 PM
Quote from: stromboli on July 23, 2014, 01:36:36 PM
Mother Teresa had literally millions of dollars to fix the problems of those women and did not do so. What she did was base cruelty. She offered care and help to thousands and then withheld treatment that would have eased their suffering. This is the kind of blithering idiocy we are talking about. Forcing your will on others by way of suffering for the lord is exactly why religion is so basely evil. there is no love or compassion  when you have the means to offer ease from suffering and withhold it. Not to mention getting money from some very questionable sources, money that never found its way to help the poor. Further proof that you are a blithering idiot wearing blinders that cannot see the obvious.u
I do not know the whole story nor do I know exactly what that money was to be use for.  It may be that she knew that there was no way she could revive these people back to health and the money that it would have cost for all those painkillers to make them die comfortably, could have been used to open missionaries elsewhere in the world where there  was need.

Either way, because of Mother Teresa, millions of people were spared from  having to die all alone without love , on the streets, in the gutters, and in dumpsters and landfills.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on July 23, 2014, 01:56:55 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 01:47:39 PM
I do not know the whole story nor do I know exactly what that money was to be use for.  It may be that she knew that there was no way she could revive these people back to health and the money that it would have cost for all those painkillers to make them die comfortably, could have been used to open missionaries elsewhere in the world where there  was need.

Either way, because of Mother Teresa, millions of people were spared from  having to die all alone without love , on the streets, in the gutters, and in dumpsters and landfills.

Do some reading about the person you're defending:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2003/10/mommie_dearest.html

-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Bibliofagus on July 23, 2014, 02:09:14 PM
Azzi?
That you?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: leo on July 23, 2014, 02:10:36 PM
Purgatory , purgatory , purgatory.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on July 23, 2014, 02:15:18 PM
Quote from: Bibliofagus on July 23, 2014, 02:09:14 PM
Azzi?
That you?

I looked this guy up; I found two "CatholicCrusader"'s out there. One is a diehard fundie Catholic, and the other just goes around quoting the Bible. Didn't find him at any other atheist websites, and not too many Christian ones either.

I wish he were the fundy one, he sounds fun.

-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on July 23, 2014, 02:57:48 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 01:33:54 PM
How did the Pope prevent Africans from receiving condoms? Obviously if they were fornicating to begin with , they either weren't listening to the pope, Or they heard from the pope somehow , but really didn't care what he had to say
Stating that the use of condoms would make the AIDS epidemic worse. (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/17/pope-africa-condoms-aids) That's an active discouragement if I've ever heard one, and it's also demonstrably false, as whenever condoms have been promoted in other HIV affected communities, the problem was not worsened and actually got better.

Also, are you retreating from your position that the pope is a world leader of considerable influence? You can't have it both ways.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on July 23, 2014, 03:18:49 PM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on July 23, 2014, 02:57:48 PM
Stating that the use of condoms would make the AIDS epidemic worse. (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/17/pope-africa-condoms-aids) That's an active discouragement if I've ever heard one, and it's also demonstrably false, as whenever condoms have been promoted in other HIV affected communities, the problem was not worsened and actually got better.

Also, are you retreating from your position that the pope is a world leader of considerable influence? You can't have it both ways.

Sure he can: he's a Catholic.

:wink:

-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: wolf39us on July 23, 2014, 03:23:38 PM
Okay let's make something very clear CC.  We do NOT see the bible as an authority, in fact... we deny it's validity all together.  If you're going to have intelligent discourse, we must first establish it's validity.

Just pointing to verses and creating walls of texts doesn't do much for the "discourse" bit :-)
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 03:42:08 PM
by the way I am NOT trying to convert anyone here.

I'm simply talking about Catholicism because The Catholic Church is a mystery that I and other millions find most fascinating.  I am simply sharing with you what I know about a subject that is very interesting to me.  I used to care about believing all the Catholic dogmas like the assumption or the Immaculate Conception.   Now I really don't care that much, which means I am a bad Catholic.  What I care about is there are suffering people in agony throughout the world and the Catholic Church is doing more than I know of any other institution to feed the hungry,   give to the needy, and love to those who are unwanted, and treat others as they would want to be treated.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on July 23, 2014, 03:48:51 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 03:42:08 PM
by the way I am NOT trying to convert anyone here.

I'm simply talking about Catholicism because The Catholic Church is a mystery that I and other millions find most fascinating.  I am simply sharing with you what I know about a subject that is very interesting to me.  I used to care about believing all the Catholic dogmas like the assumption or the Immaculate Conception.   Now I really don't care that much, which means I am a bad Catholic.  What I care about is there are suffering people in agony throughout the world and the Catholic Church is doing more than I know of any other institution to feed the hungry,   give to the needy, and love to those who are unwanted, and treat others as they would want to be treated.

But you are ignoring certain people. Like me. I wonder what I did? You must know me from another website, under another name. Otherwise, I do not understand why you're ignoring questions I ask you unless you know me, and don:'t like me--which is valid, or you know you can't convert me.

You ignore others, too. I wonder why?

-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: leo on July 23, 2014, 03:51:50 PM
The thing is that most of us really don't care about this catholic religion.  You are a guest in this site. You should not  talk about catholicism , unless a member ask you or want you to talk about this topic. We don't like your approach. It's that simple.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Icarus on July 23, 2014, 03:53:59 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 12:14:05 PM
Who here put more effort into easing world's suffering and loving the poorest of the poor and unwanted or put forth time and effort ito their consolation than Mother Teresa , that wartants you to be so hypercritical?  She was a sinner like us all, so Im  not saying but she wasn't on multiple occasions failing to be faithful to her duties, or that she was something more than a human being.

Had It not been for her , those lepers of society would have just died in a dumpster or on the streets.  at least they got to die with dignity, comforted by another human being with  love and compassion.

Norman Borlaug, he saved over a billion people and you have no idea who he is. Mother Teresa became famous because she cared for a few hundred people. Norman Borlaug single handed prevented a billion people from starving and no one bats an eye. Why? Science is the devil.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 03:55:10 PM
Please let me know where I ignored you and what you would like to talk about it.  I do not have all of the answers.  There is much that is a mystery to me.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 03:58:33 PM
Quote from: Icarus on July 23, 2014, 03:53:59 PM
Norman Borlaug, he saved over a billion people and you have no idea who he is. Mother Teresa became famous because she cared for a few hundred people. Norman Borlaug single handed prevented a billion people from starving and no one bats an eye. Why? Science is the devil.
I never said nor do I believe that Mother Teresa is any better than Norman Borlaug.  I'm sure neither of them were competing for a popularity contest.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on July 23, 2014, 04:03:01 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 03:55:31 PM
Double post.
Mea culpa!

80 comments and 0 likes. People consider me rude, annoying, aggressive, and basically just an asshole; I've been here not even a month and a half yet and I have 50 likes.

What does that say about you, personally?

-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Icarus on July 23, 2014, 04:12:17 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 03:58:33 PM
I never said nor do I believe that Mother Teresa is any better than Norman Borlaug.  I'm sure neither of them were competing for a popularity contest.

I missread "Who here put more effort into easing world's suffering and loving the poorest of the poor and unwanted or put forth time and effort ito their consolation than Mother Teresa , that wartants you to be so hypercritical?" as "Who put more effort into easing world's suffering and loving the poorest of the poor and unwanted or put forth time and effort ito their consolation than Mother Teresa , that wartants you to be so hypercritical?"
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 04:26:00 PM
I meant hypercritical specifically about Mother Teresa.  she wasn't perfect, but she did her best.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: SGOS on July 23, 2014, 04:59:29 PM
We get it.  You are deeply and sincerely in love with the Catholic Church.  Some of it you disagree with.  Some of it you don't understand, but to you that's a trivial matter considering the wonderful emotions you feel toward the Church.  But keep in mind that while you are in the throes of ecstasy and beside yourself with joy, we don't give a shit about Catholicism.  It's all made up ritualistic nonsense, supported by a colorful mythology of impossible events that should not be believed in by anyone but preschool children.  You're can't consider facts, because you are blinded by your emotions.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on July 23, 2014, 06:40:15 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 04:26:00 PM
I meant hypercritical specifically about Mother Teresa.  she wasn't perfect, but she did her best.
If that was her best, it's a very low bar. I would have the wherewithal to understand when people donate to me to help ease the suffering of the poor, that money is to be put towards easing the suffering of the poor, not preach to them that their suffering is somehow "holy" â€" regardless of her personal beliefs, that was not why the money was given to her.

Plus, she is on the fast track to sainthood for this low bar called "her best." If she deserves to be sainted, so do I and more so. Where's my sainthood? I write, but I get no reply.

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 03:55:10 PM
I do not have all of the answers.  There is much that is a mystery to me.
This is an understatement.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on July 23, 2014, 06:53:07 PM
http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2013/03/05/a-new-expose-on-mother-teresa-shows-that-she-and-the-vatican-were-even-worse-than-we-though

Quote“At the time of her death, Mother Teresa had opened 517 missions welcoming the poor and sick in more than 100 countries. The missions have been described as “homes for the dying” by doctors visiting several of these establishments in Calcutta. Two-thirds of the people coming to these missions hoped to a find a doctor to treat them, while the other third lay dying without receiving appropriate care. The doctors observed a significant lack of hygiene, even unfit conditions, as well as a shortage of actual care, inadequate food, and no painkillers. The problem is not a lack of moneyâ€"the Foundation created by Mother Teresa has raised hundreds of millions of dollarsâ€"but rather a particular conception of suffering and death: “There is something beautiful in seeing the poor accept their lot, to suffer it like Christ’s Passion. The world gains much from their suffering,” was her reply to criticism, cites the journalist Christopher Hitchens. Nevertheless, when Mother Teresa required palliative care, she received it in a modern American hospital.”

Wow, hypocrite much?

Quote“Mother Teresa was generous with her prayers but rather miserly with her foundation’s millions when it came to humanity’s suffering. During numerous floods in India or following the explosion of a pesticide plant in Bhopal, she offered numerous prayers and medallions of the Virgin Mary but no direct or monetary aid. On the other hand, she had no qualms about accepting the Legion of Honour and a grant from the Duvalier dictatorship in Haiti. Millions of dollars were transferred to the MCO’s various bank accounts, but most of the accounts were kept secret, Larivée says. ‘Given the parsimonious management of Mother Theresa’s works, one may ask where the millions of dollars for the poorest of the poor have gone?’”
Since you didn't apparently read the article, try again. Do you think the Vatican with all its billions of wealth and resources was unaware of this? Why else fast track her into sainthood, so they could shove it under the rug?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on July 23, 2014, 06:53:24 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 04:26:00 PM
I meant hypercritical specifically about Mother Teresa.  she wasn't perfect, but she did her best.

How did she "do her best"?

-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Contemporary Protestant on July 23, 2014, 07:16:36 PM
Im sorry but 66% is terrible, if a charity only helps 2/3 of the people in their care then theyre not worth supporting especially in this case
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: leo on July 23, 2014, 07:17:44 PM
Quote from: Nam on July 23, 2014, 06:53:24 PM
How did she "do her best"?

-Nam
She was the best farting. She was the queen of farting.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 09:29:46 PM
Well a woman of about four foot something and 38 years old went into one of the worst Ghettos in  the world completely broke and without shelter and gave up her comfort and all possessions which is quite courageous and selfsacrificing.

...by herself and she picked up a dying man and brought him to the hospital and they knew he was just going die so they didn't give him a bed.   so he died in Mother Teresa's arms.  At least he died in the arms of another human being who was comforting him and being treated with dignity.

I don't know about all those accusations about whether or not she was not doing her best with the money she had to relieve peoples suffering or withholding proper medical care but im open to the possibility that the accusations are true , and if that is so, than I disagree with her decision, but either way they would have been suffering a lot more had she and her missionaries and the houses the she founded not been there.

Keep in mind that some of these people they were caring for people that would have been rejected from hospitals because they were hopeless cases. Many of them  had contagious leprosy, HIV, and other highly contagious diseases that people did not want to go near.

Mothers houses of the dying were not hospitals and did not have all of the resources that hospitals have and the missionaries traveled so often that they couldn't just have a hospital because that would require them to be committed to one place and they traveled too much to be committed to just one facility.

I would like to see how much the people that criticize her are doing it to relieve suffering in the World.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: SGOS on July 23, 2014, 09:38:20 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 09:29:46 PM

...by herself and she picked up a dying man and brought him to the hospital and they knew he was just going to die so they didn't have anything they can do for him so they rejected him, and so he died Mother Teresa's arms.  At least he died in the arms of another human being who was comforting I am in treating him with dignity.
An inspiring story, but you will pardon my skepticism after watching the Church lie for so many years.  It sounds like something made up or embellished by the church.  On the other hand, most people would help a dying man to the hospital, so her action was not as glorious as one would expect from a saint.  I suspect the story will endure, however.  And that's really all that the church wants.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 09:45:12 PM
Actually on the streets of Calcutta there are starving and dying people laying on sidewalks and in alleways, that nobody stops to help except for Catholic missionaries and volunteers at the houses for the dying..  Here in America you don't see that but it is out there.  You also dont see lepers here.  There's a whole different world out there, especially in places like India where there's a caste system
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on July 23, 2014, 09:47:25 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 09:29:46 PM
Well a woman of about four foot something and 38 years old went into one of the worst Ghettos in  the world completely broke and without shelter and gave up her comfort and all possessions which is quite courageous and selfsacrificing.

If she was completely broke and didn't already have a place to live, how was that sacrificing? And, have you ever been to a ghetto?

Quote...by herself and she picked up a dying man

Did he weigh 20 pounds?

Quote...and brought him to the hospital and they knew he was just going to die so they didn't have anything they can do for him so they rejected him, and so he died Mother Teresa's arms.

Let's say she did that: does that excuse all the suffering she caused during and after her life by not actually providing much of any care to the sick and poor?

QuoteAt least he died in the arms of another human being who was comforting I am in treating him with dignity.

What about all the others in the ghetto, why just the one man?

QuoteI don't know about all those accusations about whether or not she was not doing her best with the money she had to relieve eoples suffering or withholding proper medical csre but im open to the possibility that the accusations are true and if that is so than I disagree with her decision, but either way they would have been suffering a lot more had she and her missionaries and the house the she founded not been there.

Doubtful since you preface it with that loving story beforehand.

QuoteKeep in mind that some of these people they were caring for people that would have been rejected from hospitals because they were hopeless cases.

Or they just didn't have the proper insurance. [/sarcasm]

Quotemothers houses of the dying were not hospitals and did not have all of the resources that hospitals have and the missionaries traveled so often that they couldn't just have a hospital because that would require them to be committed to one place and did they travel too much to be committed to just one facility.

I know, man. It's so difficult to store painkillers in such places, or anything really. Got to fit as many sick people as you can so the world can see you care.

QuoteI would like to see how much the people that criticize her are doing it to relieve suffering in the World.

What suffering did she relieve? Not too much, I think:

"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people."

-- Mother Teresa



-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: aitm on July 23, 2014, 09:48:24 PM
Mother Teresa and Jesus, one completely made up the other completely fabricated.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Minimalist on July 23, 2014, 09:49:19 PM
How can anyone remain a member of an organization of child-molesting perverts?

Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on July 23, 2014, 09:50:50 PM
Sorry, dude, we can't get over the fact that 2/3 of the money coming to her was not used for the purpose for which it was donated. We can't get over the fact that those dying on the streets were taken to instead die in MT's hospices while being told that their suffering would bring them closer to Jesus. I don't care if it's India, you just don't do that to people if you have a merciful bone in your body.

I say this again because it needs to be said: religion is an affront to human life and dignity.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on July 23, 2014, 09:52:29 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 23, 2014, 09:45:12 PM
Actually on the streets of Calcutta there are starving and dying people laying on sidewalks and in alleways, that nobody stops to help except for Catholic missionaries and volunteers at the houses for the dying..  Here in America you don't see that but it is out there.  You also dont see lepers here.  There's a whole different world out there, especially in places like India where there's a caste system

Evidence or you're making it up.

Have you been homeless in the US? I have. Twice. Trust me, you have people with jobs homeless. You have children homeless. Women, men, homeless and most people here, (that would be Christians like you) either give terms to your willingness to help them or you just ignore them, enact laws against them because they should be homeless somewhere else.

-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: doorknob on July 23, 2014, 09:54:40 PM
I've got a question!

How do catholics decide what is divinely inspired and what is not? why have no new "scrolls" that have been discovered added to the bible? Who decided they weren't inspired by the holy spirit?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on July 23, 2014, 10:15:06 PM
I find it funny that this thread's topic is "Ask a Catholic," yet we're the ones who seem to be schooling CC.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Solitary on July 23, 2014, 11:58:40 PM
Isn't that always the case?  :biggrin2: Solitary
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: JohnD on July 24, 2014, 04:24:39 AM
I have an important question which has been playing on my mind for some time.

As you know, with the recent financial crisis affecting us all, barring the church of course, people are looking for ways to save money with regards to their house hold bills.

  My question to you is, how many pages has the average bible, and is the paper it's printed on absorbent? The reason i ask is that the  toilet paper i buy at my local store has 100 sheets of substandard ass wiping material and costs almost 2 Euros!! Can you Frick'n believe it, 2 Euros for bog paper that has very little absorbancy :(
Now i've worked out that if there was on average 1000 pages in the bible and i could get it for less than 20 Euros, then i'm onto a winner. I would also have to take into consideration the quality of the print, none of that cheap ink they use in those tacky tabloid newspapers in the UK where the print comes off in your hand. The last thing i want is bible verses printed all over my butt! Might give the local catholic priest a raging erection down at the council swimming pool! Everyone could be a winner in this situation. The religious nut jobs get to sell more bibles and my butt stays fresh like a meadow breeze. I would of course consider your recommendation as to whether i should use the old testament or new testament bible!

If this idea takes off, i would look into buying much larger size bibles, have you seen the prices of cat litter paper??
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on July 24, 2014, 04:29:56 AM
(http://www.religifake.com/image/religion/1207/toilet-paper-bible-toilet-paper-religion-1342839332.jpg)

-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: SGOS on July 24, 2014, 07:18:12 AM
Quote from: doorknob on July 23, 2014, 09:54:40 PM
I've got a question!

How do catholics decide what is divinely inspired and what is not? why have no new "scrolls" that have been discovered added to the bible? Who decided they weren't inspired by the holy spirit?
Actually, the Vatican has a miracle squad assigned to track down reported miracles and investigate them for authenticity.  It's like sending out the Tea Party to find reasons that support not paying taxes.  They have an agenda.  They find what they want.  It's all part of the mystery, and helped along by the vagueness of supernatural accountability.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on July 24, 2014, 07:49:22 AM
Quote from: aitm on July 23, 2014, 09:48:24 PM
Mother Teresa and Jesus, one completely made up the other completely fabricated.

http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2013/03/05/a-new-expose-on-mother-teresa-shows-that-she-and-the-vatican-were-even-worse-than-we-thought/

“There is something beautiful in seeing the poor accept their lot, to suffer it like Christ’s Passion. The world gains much from their suffering,”
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on July 24, 2014, 02:59:48 PM
^Reply #170.

-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 24, 2014, 03:14:46 PM
yes I have done volunteer work in the ghetto of Buffalo New York St Luke's mission of mercy.  I'll answer everyone else's questions when I have time I have to go run some errands.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 24, 2014, 03:15:50 PM
Quote from: SGOS on July 24, 2014, 07:18:12 AM
Actually, the Vatican has a miracle squad assigned to track down reported miracles and investigate them for authenticity.  It's like sending out the Tea Party to find reasons that support not paying taxes.  They have an agenda.  They find what they want.  It's all part of the mystery, and helped along by the vagueness of supernatural accountability.
thank you for answering for me that saves me some time.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on July 24, 2014, 03:18:08 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 24, 2014, 03:14:46 PM
yes I have done volunteer work in the ghetto of Buffalo New York St Luke's mission of mercy.  I'll answer everyone else's questions when I have time I have to go run some errands.

How many people did you pick up off the ground and carry to a hospital?

-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 24, 2014, 03:18:49 PM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on July 23, 2014, 10:15:06 PM
I find it funny that this thread's topic is "Ask a Catholic," yet we're the ones who seem to be schooling CC.
glad you all are having a super time.  please go register for a Catholic forum and try to hold down a debate when you're outnumbered 100  to 1.  I'm just a human being who is not all knowing and don't have any superpowers..
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on July 24, 2014, 03:23:23 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 24, 2014, 03:18:49 PM
glad you all are having a super time.  please go register for a Catholic forum and try to hold down a debate when you're outnumbered 20 or more 1.  I'm just a human being who is not all knowing and don't have any superpowers..

Atheists are usually banned from Christian websites (or so restricted it's like they're banned) within the first hour (or less) of being there.

Also, if it's a dominated sect that is at the website (or owns it) even certain Christians are restricted to their areas (their sect), or also banned within an hour of joining.

I've been banned, in such cases, from many Christian websites for just being an atheist, or been so restricted that it didn't matter if I went there.

At least websites like this only restrict trolls.

-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: leo on July 24, 2014, 03:29:07 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 24, 2014, 03:18:49 PM
glad you all are having a super time.  please go register for a Catholic forum and try to hold down a debate when you're outnumbered 100  to 1.  I'm just a human being who is not all knowing and don't have any superpowers..
Of course. You are very ignorant of your catholic religion. The "teacher " got schooled. Very funny.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: The Skeletal Atheist on July 24, 2014, 03:42:31 PM
How old do I have to be to not get molested?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on July 24, 2014, 03:47:10 PM
Look CC, if you are a man or woman who goes about doing good things for people, shows respect to others, and in general leaves others to there own beliefs, then I have nothing at all against you and what you do. I hold respect for people who would give up their time to help in charity or help in shelters or just doing good for his fellow man, and if that is done by belief in God then I have no issue with that.

It's just when a religious guy comes about preaching his faith in places where he should keep it to himself it creates a problem. I would not walk into a church and yell out 'gods not real, the Vatican takes all your money for themselves' because I'd consider that rude even as an atheist.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Minimalist on July 24, 2014, 04:17:26 PM
Rude....but true.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on July 24, 2014, 05:02:11 PM
Boy, I love this shit. some theist comes on our forum to espouse his/her bullshit, then gets all butthurt because we are rude, runs out several pages of weak defense of their bullshit religion, then whines about being outnumbered, boo hoo, rude people, boo hoo.

You came here on your own volition. You can leave any time you want. If you choose to stay, stfu and stop the whine sessions.

Irl you would have been tossed out the door long ago. What crap.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on July 24, 2014, 05:02:24 PM
Quote from: Minimalist on July 24, 2014, 04:17:26 PM
Rude....but true.

I know, but my take is a person is entitled to believe whatever they want in their own home, and for a religious person that counts in churches too. outside of their homes and churches its a different story.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on July 24, 2014, 05:11:12 PM
Quote from: stromboli on July 24, 2014, 05:02:11 PM
Boy, I love this shit. some theist comes on our forum to espouse his/her bullshit, then gets all butthurt because we are rude, runs out several pages of weak defense of their bullshit religion, then whines about being outnumbered, boo hoo, rude people, boo hoo.

You came here on your own volition. You can leave any time you want. If you choose to stay, stfu and stop the whine sessions.

Irl you would have been tossed out the door long ago. What crap.

I don't think he's been overly aggressive with what he preaches, its more just out of place given the sites community and where they stand on what he believes.

As i say, if I went on a catholic blog and started saying theres no such thing as god and its all fairy tales, I'd be considered a troll and kicked off the site or at least cornered on it with people asking me to believe, and I'd expect such a thing because it is there site for their community. It be like a homophobic straight guy coming on a gay site to slam his anti gay views, its just not compatible.

I think though sometimes having theists and atheists sitting down and figuring each other out isn't a bad thing, not because it should impart stuff onto one another, but just to kind of get a perspective on why each other believes what they believe. Everyone is flawed in some way or another, and it all comes down to the person more then what they believe.

It makes for interesting conversions sometimes too.

Edit: And sorry for the double post.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on July 24, 2014, 06:54:17 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 24, 2014, 03:18:49 PM
I'm just a human being who is not all knowing and don't have any superpowers..
Apparently, "knowing your own religion" is a superpower. Please note that you started this thread as a Q&A thread, where we would ask about the Catholic church, and you would give reasonably accurate answers. Ie, you set yourself up as some kind of expert on the Catholic church. It apparently didn't occur to you that we would have the background in your own religion to ask rather difficult questions about it, and weren't savvy enough to know that we wouldn't buy into the usual apologetics.

At least I know now that you aren't Azzi; she was well-practiced in her bullshit.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on July 24, 2014, 07:02:18 PM
I'm certain there are enough ex-catholics here anyway who was forced to follow it, but became atheist later.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: doorknob on July 25, 2014, 12:51:47 PM
^^^bingo!

as for me, I'm not offended that CC has come here. Or even that he's trying to preach because I find it slightly amusing. It's a two way street no one has to read his threads if they find it offensive. I personally am a fan of freedom of speech and that includes unpopular speech. I do not feel threatened in the least because there is nothing he or she could say that would convert me. I don't expect them to convert either but I do hope that CC can walk away with some new knowledge or even gain some critical thinking from being here.

but that's my opinion on the matter. Every one is entitled to their own opinions and emotions.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: leo on July 25, 2014, 01:07:29 PM
Quote from: Munch on July 24, 2014, 07:02:18 PM
I'm certain there are enough ex-catholics here anyway who was forced to follow it, but became atheist later.
I'm a ex- catholic. I'm very familiar with the bullshit of this silly religion.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on July 25, 2014, 02:17:07 PM
Okay so, I'll be nice. What is your opinion on this thread
http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=5797.0

And this thread? Really like to get your comments.
http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=5812.0
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on July 26, 2014, 02:09:15 PM
So, 24 hours later give or take, no response. Hmmmmm.......

:popcorn:
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Solitary on July 26, 2014, 05:09:08 PM
All it means to be Catholic is that you believe in the God of Scripture interpreted by Catholic scholars that don't know anymore about it than you do, but still call yourself a Catholic, even if you are a hypocrite regarding what they preach.  :naughty: Solitary 
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on July 26, 2014, 06:30:06 PM
Catholic Crusader is not going to step up and defend the faith? I am disappoint.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Green Bottle on July 26, 2014, 07:15:29 PM
He cant defend the undefendable , he has no answers to any of the important questions, his brainwashing is complete. :wall: :wall: :wall:
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on July 26, 2014, 07:28:39 PM
I would give the guy credit for at least trying, even if it was just lame apolegetic crap. If he does come back to offer some defense, I would compliment him for it. At least he would be showing some guts. I really hope he comes back and offers something by way of a defense.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Cocoa Beware on July 26, 2014, 10:23:03 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 20, 2014, 01:40:04 PM
I like to talk about it but I am sick of of Christian forums. They are gross.  I did however hope that there were more theists and Protestants here at this forum that I could debate with.

I see. At least... Im not as confused.

Around here I dont think we get too many visits from you guys unfortunately; and all too often its the overtly hostile pious types.

But you seem like a nice enough guy and we might get along just fine, provided we suspend our beliefs (or lack thereof)

Still unless you think you can convince Protestants that your faith is superior with a few paragraphs, Im not sure what the point is. Does this method actually work? Are you trying to find new recruits? Do you expect Protestants will have some kind of epiphany? Its all pretty weird to me.

Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on July 27, 2014, 08:43:07 AM
Quote from: stromboli on July 26, 2014, 07:28:39 PM
I would give the guy credit for at least trying, even if it was just lame apolegetic crap. If he does come back to offer some defense, I would compliment him for it. At least he would be showing some guts. I really hope he comes back and offers something by way of a defense.

yeah, I got to admit even if when a christian or any religious person comes forward with their belief, if they manage to stand their ground and defend their belief system, I can respect it, just because defending anything you believe in, in a setting where nobody is going to back you on it, does take some roots.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 30, 2014, 10:57:13 PM
I'm not sure about how to answer the question how old you have to be to not get molested. You can be molested at any age.

if anybody has any questions that I did not answer please remind me of them.

here are my reasons for being Catholic.

Christian s believed in the Sacraments and the Mass for more than 1500 years.The Catholic Church holds to Christs teaching about divorce and remarriage from Luke 16:18 where the vast majority if not all other denominations have gotten rid of this inconvenient teaching.

The Catholic Church has an unbroken chain of Popes that dates back to Peter (2,000 years ago) and never has a Pope spoken ex cathedra and defined a Dogma that contradicted what a previous Pope or Church council defined. I see the consistency and durability of the Church only possible with the blessing of almighty God.Protestant Churches have been around for a few hundred years and they have already compromised on many issues that they use to consider sinful (contraception ,and female priests/pastors/bishops for example) and you can see major changes in what those denominations believe today compared to what the founder of the Denomination believed.

Protestant denominations are man made (have human founders). Try in vain to find the creature that founded Catholicism. That man is God.

The Catholic Church relies on the Church to investigate matters of Heresy and give an authentic understanding of Scripture. It seems people of other denominations take it into their own hands. The former approach is far more humble.Matthew 18:17 says: "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."

This is only one of multiple Biblical examples of how the Church is the authority and supreme Court that Christ set up. Without this authority there is Doctrinal anarchy, a lack of widespread discipline, and a Divided Christianity. The Strategy of the Devil is to divide and conquer.Christ didnt leave the early Christians with a Bible. He left them with a Church that put the first Christian Bible together more than 300 years later, so we can say that the Bible (especially the New Testament) is a Catholic book.

The Sola Scriptura (Bible alone) Doctrine and the Faith alone Doctrine were the foundation upon which the Protestant Churches were built, and both of them are self-destructive, because Scripture alone does not define, and is incompatible with both of them. The person person who obeys the Church is being more Biblical than the person who believes the Unbiblical Falsehood that the Church needs to find Scripture to back up every little detail of what it teaches. No where does Scripture say that we can rebel against the Church if we feel teaching X, Y, and Z doesn't add up to our private interpretation of Scripture.

Jesus Christ and the Apostles preached truth that was not contained in or even contradicted the Scriptures of that time, such as the decision to not stone the Adulteress, the decision that the Apostles made at the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15), the unprecedented status of Gentiles, and love for enemies. This, along with plenty of other Biblical evidence and common sense, goes to show that neither Christ, the Apostles, or early Christians preached a "Bible alone" Doctrine. They did preach obedience to the Church.

Catholic Church is faithful to the Scripture that says all generations shall call Mary Blessed and to deny her the title "Mother of God" is to (perhaps subconsciously) deny the Trinity and the Divinity of Christ.If the Church is not guided by the Holy Spirit, we do know with certainty that the Church was not mistaken in declaring the New Testament Canon of Scripture. If you don't trust Church Authority, that is grounds for not trusting the Bible.

One of many questions the Fathers of Protestantism should have asked themselves is where was Christ's Church for the past 1500 years? Did it up and vanish after Catholicism became the official Religion of the Roman Empire? What about Christ's promise to the Church "I am with you always, to the very end of the age.(Matthew 28:20)" or "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it (the Church)"(Matt 16:18). Would God have let his Church become a false or Pagan Religion? Not according to Scripture which says the Church is the pillar and bulwark of truth.

The Sacrament of Confession is good medicine. It did me far more good receiving the Sacrament of confession and Spiritual direction than it did consulting with others, including professionals who charge an arm and a leg. You can feel free to share what you wouldn't share with anyone, because nothing can be disclosed.

The communion of Saints is appealing because through it we can have a friendship with God's champions and Generals. We benefit from their intercession because they have been perfected, are sinless, and their knowledge of and relationship with God far surpasses that of any members of the Church militant. The greater part of the body of Christ (Church Triumphant) helps out the Church Militant. It also means that if a person was dedicated to the service of God's people and the salvation of souls while on earth he/she can continue to help them while in Heaven.

The Catholic Church is faithful to theThe Doctrine of Purgatory brings much hope as well. A person who dies unworthy of the kingdom of God can reach the first degrees of Christian perfection after being purified. This is important because God's word says "nothing unclean shall enter Heaven" (that would include ten out of ten people in this world) and that we will be purified by fire. Scripture says even the angels are not pure in God's eyes, so thank God for Purgatory!

From what I've seen growing up Protestant, non-Catholic Christianity usually focuses too much on being happy and comfortable in this life. In the Catholic Church there are true warriors like those mentioned in Hebrews 11: 35 "There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. 36 Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were put to death by stoning; they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreatedâ€" 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground." The Catholic Church has thousands of courageous lovers of the Cross. Some of them like Saint Francis of Assissi, Saint Anthony of Padua, and St. Isaac Jogues traveled to far distant hostile lands, fearlessly willing to embrace martyrdom for love of Christ.

There are Saints who mortified their pride by loving humiliation, crucified their self-will by obedience, conquered sloth by loving physical suffering, extinguished lust by living a life of complete chastity, and overcame anger by loving their enemies. Does admiring any part of God's creation distract you from God? When you walk through a forest, a Desert, or go to the beach and admire the Ocean and the sunset, does that distract you from God or draw you closer? Similarly when you admire people like St Francis, Mother Teresa, John the Baptist, Paul, Moses, Elijah, or the Mother of Jesus who dedicated their lives to serving God and growing in virtue, Does that make you turn away from God - or is it more likely to inspire you into more diligent service of God?

The Church has contemplative branches of people who like John the Baptist own nothing but the sandles on their feet, the robe on their back, live in complete Chastity. They pray and meditate on the law of the Lord unceasingly, and even renounce their will by the vow of obedience. They have completely laid down their lives for Christ and the salvation of souls. I don't see that same dedication in other Denominations. Since Celibacy was mentioned in Scripture as being a calling where one can be dedicated to God with an undivided Heart, I have to wonder why Protestant Church's don't have more celibate clergy.

In my humble opinion, other denominations are just not rationale in their view of suffering. The Catholic Church explained well my biggest stumbling block in believing in God on why this world is so full of despair, suffering, injustice, disease, and death, and how he can bring beauty out of such ugliness (the torture, humiliation, and death of Christ for example) and that such suffering can be very good for us and manifestations of his love for us.It was God's will that the Apostles and the early Church drink from that same cup of bitterness, carry the cross, and follow in the bloody footsteps of Christ either through a red (fatal) or a white (daily) martyrdom. I could never make sense of a Christianity that doesn't preach the Cross.

There is alot in Scripture that is not clear and concise. It seems like some of Scripture, the book of Revelation for example, is designed so that a select few Holy people will have the anointing to understand it. To this day there are many commentaries on Scripture and its meaning that are theoretical/hypothesis.But I found in the writings of the Saints, messages from Church approved Marian apparitions, and messages from our Lord to the mystics, clear concise instructions that apply more to the contemporary culture and are linked to Modern Historical events.

I prefer clear instructions on how to sanctify each day which can be found in certain places within the Bible but,much of the Bible is parables, poetry, and prophecies that people have been arguing and bickering about for thousands of years and continue to do so. That is why the Bible does more good when read in union with the teaching authority that Christ left on earth.

Rejecting this authority has lead to an extremely divided Christianity which is clearly condemned in Scripture. "I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment"(1 Corinthians 1:10), "If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand.(Mark 3:25)"So those are my reasons for becoming Catholic and with a list like that I dont think I'll be leaving the Church anytime soon.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on July 30, 2014, 11:52:28 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 30, 2014, 10:57:13 PM
I'm not sure about how to answer the question how old you have to be to not get molested. You can be molested at any age.

if anybody has any questions that I did not answer please remind me of them.

here are my reasons for being Catholic.

Your life story has nothing to do with our questions to you. If you can't answer them, then leave. Don't come in here proselytizing.

And your "life story" tells me, personally, that you wrote that "book" instead of actually contemplating anything we've said.

From day one "we" knew why you were here, it says it in your username.

-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on July 31, 2014, 12:17:17 AM
NOBODY GIVES A DAMN ABOUT YOUR LIFE STORY. RESPOND TO THE POSTS.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Solitary on July 31, 2014, 12:29:30 AM
So God gave us pain and suffering so it is easier to accept our mortality. Makes sense from a God that is all loving so we can go to heaven. What? Catholicism is all about death and dying while suffering. The crucifix as a symbol of the Church is proof of that. I believe in life and reality and giving it my best shot, alone, and without magical thinking, or letting some pompous ass telling me how to live and think while interfering with my family and life. I'm not some dumb scared sheep, or cattle, waiting for death so I can be in heaven by placating some imaginary God, or gods. I have served my main purpose in life, perpetuating my species--- and staying alive the best I can in a God forsaken world of reality without imaginary figures. I came from an eternity of an unconsciousness sleep of death, and will go back when I'm dead.  :flowers: Solitary
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 12:53:42 AM
well either way the world is full of suffering and all of us are going to suffer and die.  However, many people of faith who believe that their suffering is a share in the cross that sanctifies us and  atones for our sins and the sins of the world , and anticipate the glorious reward and resurrection following this crucifixion, will have more joy, peace, and hope than those who simply believe that suffering is something  that should be avoided at all costs and has no meaning.

Could a person ever become an Olympic athlete if they are not willing to suffer?

Many lessons can be learned and wisdom acquired through suffering.

Also in regard to my statement about responding to every post, I never said i would do that.  if you have a question I will try to you answer it. please let me know what your question is or if there is an earlier question that I failed to answer.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on July 31, 2014, 01:12:23 AM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 12:53:42 AMAlso in regard to my statement about responding to every post, I never said i would do that.  if you have a question I will try to you answer it. please let me know what your question is or if there is an earlier question that I failed to answer.

I'm going to get into trouble for this but it's worth it. People refer to me as an asshole all the time but you truly are an asshole.

I'm also surprised the staff let's you stay since the only reason you are here is to convert. If you were here to debate, then you would. You wouldn't make excuses such as, "I never said I'd answer all questions posed to me.".

If you asked us questions -- we'd do our best to answer every single one.

That's the difference between us.

-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on July 31, 2014, 01:30:28 AM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 12:53:42 AM
well either way the world is full of suffering and all of us are going to suffer and die.  However, many people of faith who believe that their suffering is a share in the cross that sanctifies us and  atones for our sins and the sins of the world , and anticipate the glorious reward and resurrection following this crucifixion, will have more joy, peace, and hope than those who simply believe that suffering is something  that should be avoided at all costs and has no meaning.

Could a person ever become an Olympic athlete if they are not willing to suffer?

Many lessons can be learned and wisdom acquired through suffering.

Also in regard to my statement about responding to every post, I never said i would do that.  if you have a question I will try to you answer it. please let me know what your question is or if there is an earlier question that I failed to answer.
(http://giant.gfycat.com/SaneMeekCuckoo.gif)
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Bibliofagus on July 31, 2014, 07:57:56 AM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 30, 2014, 10:57:13 PM
The Catholic Church has an unbroken chain of Popes that dates back to Peter (2,000 years ago).

Heh. The more you know...

QuotePope Benedict IX (Latin: Benedictus IX; c. 1012 â€" c. 1056), born Theophylactus of Tusculum in Rome, was Pope on three occasions between October 1032 and July 1048.[1] Aged approximately 20 at his first election, he is one of the youngest popes in history. He is the only man to have been Pope on more than one occasion and the only man ever to have sold the papacy.

QuoteThe Catholic Encyclopedia calls him "a disgrace to the Chair of Peter."[2] The first pope said to have been primarily homosexual,[5] he was said to have held orgies in the Lateran palace.

QuoteBenedict IX refused to appear on charges of simony in 1049 and was excommunicated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_IX
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on July 31, 2014, 08:29:04 AM
TROLL.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on July 31, 2014, 08:34:01 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkTb9GP9lVI
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 09:56:12 AM
Quote from: Nam on July 31, 2014, 01:12:23 AM
I'm going to get into trouble for this but it's worth it. People refer to me as an asshole all the time but you truly are an asshole.

I'm also surprised the staff let's you stay since the only reason you are here is to convert. If you were here to debate, then you would. You wouldn't make excuses such as, "I never said I'd answer all questions posed to me.".

If you asked us questions -- we'd do our best to answer every single one.

That's the difference between us.

-Nam
read my post again. Where did I say I wouldn't try to answer every question?  I said I didn't say I would respond to every POST.  Not every post contains a question!

I'm not here to convert anybody but to speak about Catholic apologetics. I'm not telling anyone they have to believe what I do.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 10:12:10 AM
actually there is NOTHING the Church teaches that the Pope is guaranteed to be any more holy or less of a sinner than you or I.

The President of the United States does not always act as President. No one would attribute presidential authority to his views on hunting, yachting, or drama. Even when He presides over a White House function He is not always using his presidential prerogatives. No one would attach the full authority of the United States Government to his every conviction, remark, or action. Even when speaking in a cabinet meeting, or making his official speech at the opening of Congress, he does not intend to throw the full weight of his authority into his utterances. It is only when signing an Act of Congress or a treaty withn some foreign nation, that the full and highest exercise of his Presidencey comes into play. Then, and then alone does he act as ruler of the Country, committing the Government to the deed, and binding the whole nation.

That is how it is with the Pope. In his private acts as a Christian or Bishop, or in his jurisdiction of the government of the Church, he might make a mistake or fail in prudence. No one is denying that this has and does sometimes happen. The Bishop of Rome can make any mistake but when speaking under certain conditions He is guided by the Holy Spirit (1) When He is speaking “excathedra”(from the Chair of Peter); and 2 manifests his intention of defining a doctrine 3 of faith or morals 4 officially binding the whole Church. At such a time he is assisted, watched over, by the Holy Spirit so that he does not use his authority and his knowledge to mislead the Church.The Pope is not inspired; he receives no private revelations; he does not carry in his mind the whole of Christs teaching as a miraculous treasure on which to draw at will. When preparing to make a definition in his office of upreme teacher, he first gives the matter to his theologians.

They examine the sources of the doctrine in Holy Scripture and Tradition. These sources are what is called “The Deposit of Faith”. The “deposit of Faith preserved by the Catholic Church includes:Doctrines clearly taught in the Bible, and requiring the authority of the Church to decide their true interpretation; Doctrines not mentioned in the Bible, for example: the abrogation of the Jewish Sabbath, with the obligation of observing Sunday instead; the practice of eating meat with blood, which was forbidden for a time by the Apostles.

The Deposit of Faith is the body of truth divinely proclaimed by our Lord through His Apostles for our belief. These truths of Revelation were complete at the death of the last Apostle St. John who died in the year 99Ad. These truths, which we must believe in order to be Catholics were given to us by that time. The Dogmas of the Church never can suffer change. They are today precisely what they were at the beginning of the Church. There are no new doctrines.

“The Doctrine of the faith which God revealed,” says Vatican Coucil 1(1869-1870), “is propsed, not as a mere philosophical discovery to be elaborated by human mind, but as the Divine Deposit delivered by Christ to His spouse (the Church) to be by her faithfully guarded and infallibly declared.”Whenever a Heretic challenged some revealed truth of the Faith, it became necessary for the Pope, either alone or together with the Bishops in Council, to re-express in more exact language the doctrine under attack, so that there could be no more doubt about its meaning. This defining of a Dogma does not mean a new Dogma was added to the Faith.

Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_IX


Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 10:23:50 AM
Quote from: stromboli on July 25, 2014, 02:17:07 PM
Okay so, I'll be nice. What is your opinion on this thread
http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=5797.0

And this thread? Really like to get your comments.
http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=5812.0
If it were up to me the pedophile priests and those who cover for them so that they can hurt more children, would be put in front of a firing squad and executed.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 10:30:42 AM
Quote from: Cocoa Beware on July 26, 2014, 10:23:03 PM
I see. At least... Im not as confused.

Around here I dont think we get too many visits from you guys unfortunately; and all too often its the overtly hostile pious types.

But you seem like a nice enough guy and we might get along just fine, provided we suspend our beliefs (or lack thereof)

Still unless you think you can convince Protestants that your faith is superior with a few paragraphs, Im not sure what the point is. Does this method actually work? Are you trying to find new recruits? Do you expect Protestants will have some kind of epiphany? Its all pretty weird to me.
no I'm just sharing what I've studied about Catholic apologetics and a lot of Protestants are ignorant on the topic.  no I don't think anybody will convert because of what I say here, but in my experience, few people I come in contact with, including Catholics, know what the Church teaches.  So I'm simply providing the knowledge and having a discussion about something that interests me, on a forum that has more freedom of speech than a Christian or Catholic a forum..
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Bibliofagus on July 31, 2014, 10:48:22 AM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 10:12:10 AM
actually there is NOTHING the Church teaches that the Pope is guaranteed to be any more holy or less of a sinner than you or I.

I stopped reading here. I responded to this claim:

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 10:12:10 AMThe Catholic Church has an unbroken chain of Popes that dates back to Peter (2,000 years ago).

First our friend Benedict was briefly forced out of Rome in 1036, but returned with the help of Emperor Conrad II.
In September 1044 the opposition forced him out of the city again and elected John, Bishop of Sabina, as Pope Sylvester III. Benedict IX's forces returned in April 1045 and expelled his rival, who returned to his previous bishopric.
Later in 1045, in order to rid the Church of the scandalous Benedict, his godfather, the pious priest John Gratian, persuaded Benedict to resign the papacy for a sum of money, thus allowing Gratian to become Pope Gregory VI.

Sounds pretty broken to me. That Benedict liked orgies and was excommunicated was just the icing on the cake.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Solitary on July 31, 2014, 10:57:47 AM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 12:53:42 AM
well either way the world is full of suffering and all of us are going to suffer and die.  However, many people of faith who believe that their suffering is a share in the cross that sanctifies us and  atones for our sins and the sins of the world , and anticipate the glorious reward and resurrection following this crucifixion, will have more joy, peace, and hope than those who simply believe that suffering is something  that should be avoided at all costs and has no meaning.

Could a person ever become an Olympic athlete if they are not willing to suffer?

Many lessons can be learned and wisdom acquired through suffering.

Also in regard to my statement about responding to every post, I never said i would do that.  if you have a question I will try to you answer it. please let me know what your question is or if there is an earlier question that I failed to answer.
You just don't get it do you? Why would a loving God give us suffering, why not give us heaven in the first place?  Can't you see how silly believing in a rewarding God is that has to be placated to end suffering?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 11:50:40 AM
Quote from: Bibliofagus on July 31, 2014, 10:48:22 AM
I stopped reading here. I responded to this claim:

First our friend Benedict was briefly forced out of Rome in 1036, but rereturnedturned with the help of Emperor Conrad II.
In September 1044 the opposition forced him out of the city again and elected John, Bishop of Sabina, as Pope Sylvester III. Benedict IX's forces returned in April 1045 and expelled his rival, who returned to his previous bishopric.
Later in 1045, in order to rid the Church of the scandalous Benedict, his godfather, the pious priest John Gratian, persuaded Benedict to resign the papacy for a sum of money, thus allowing Gratian to become Pope Gregory VI.

Sounds pretty broken to me. That Benedict liked orgies and was excommunicated was just the icing on the cake.
what I mean by unbreakable chain of popes is there has always been a pope aside from the time that it takes to elect a new one after one step down or dies.  there were some corrupt popes but the vast majority of them were not like that.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Solitary on July 31, 2014, 12:02:00 PM
 :popcorn:  :blahblah: Solitary
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Poison Tree on July 31, 2014, 12:17:18 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 11:50:40 AM
what I mean by unbreakable chain of popes is there has always been a pope aside from the time that it takes to elect a new one after one step down or dies.  there were some corrupt popes but the vast majority of them were not like that.
And there were times with multiple popes, so even counting times with no pope it still averages out to one pope.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Bibliofagus on July 31, 2014, 12:19:44 PM

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 11:50:40 AM
what I mean by unbreakable chain of popes is there has always been a pope aside from the time that it takes to elect a new one after one step down or dies.  there were some corrupt popes but the vast majority of them were not like that.

So it matters there was always a pope. Not how he got in power and not what they actually did?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 12:23:38 PM
Quote from: Solitary on July 31, 2014, 10:57:47 AM
You just don't get it do you? Why would a loving God give us suffering, why not give us heaven in the first place?  Can't you see how silly believing in a rewarding God is that has to be placated to end suffering?
God willed that his only son would be mocked, betrayed, tortured and brutally murdered.  God willed that his apostles would suffer and die for him and he told his followers that they would suffer and die for him.  I do not understand why nor does God anywhere declare that we must understand his ways.  His ways are not our ways.

I get upset at God and utter every fowl blasphemy I can think of at times.

scripture says that our father who loves his child will chastise his child and that a father who loves his child will not spare his child the rod.  our suffering here on earth is like a second compared to Eternity and once we are enjoying eternal bliss in heaven, we will not care anymore about our suffering here on earth.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 12:37:36 PM
Also a pizza or a glass of water taste far better to a person who is starving and dehydrated in Calcutta than to an American who has three meals a day.  this is an example of how suffering can help us to be far more grateful and enjoy something far more, and appreciate something so much more if we have suffered prior to receiving it.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 12:39:44 PM
Quote from: Poison Tree on July 31, 2014, 12:17:18 PM
And there were times with multiple popes, so even counting times with no pope it still averages out to one pope.
no there were times when there was a genuine pope and more than one other person claiming to be Pope
Title: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Bibliofagus on July 31, 2014, 12:46:59 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 12:37:36 PM
Also a pizza or a glass of water taste far better to a person who is starving and dehydrated in Calcutta than to an American who has three meals a day.  this is an example of how suffering can help us to be far more grateful and enjoy something far more, and appreciate something so much more if we have suffered prior to receiving it.

Do you ask people to beat you up so you would feel better about not being beated up all the time?

Do you ask kids to beat up your child for this reason?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 02:00:36 PM
Quote from: Bibliofagus on July 31, 2014, 12:46:59 PM
Do you ask people to beat you up so you would feel better about not being beated up all the time?

Do you ask kids to beat up your child for this reason?
No I wouldn't but perhaps God would permit it for the greater good.  Meaning for some reason God's ways are that sin must be atoned  for through suffering and sacrifice.  That is y in the Old Testament there were sin offerings so that the guilt of one person's sins would be transferred to the suffering of the sacrificial lamb.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 02:02:42 PM
Quote from: stromboli on July 26, 2014, 07:28:39 PM
I would give the guy credit for at least trying, even if it was just lame apolegetic crap. If he does come back to offer some defense, I would compliment him for it. At least he would be showing some guts. I really hope he comes back and offers something by way of a defense.
I've had a very busy week and also my computer even now is causing me problems when I come to this site like freezing up and losing the information I posted and having to post it more than once which is very frustrating.

if I had 10 hours a day to do this and a good working computer , I would try my best to respond to what is in every single post but instead I'm trying just to respond to the questions and in many post there is no question.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on July 31, 2014, 02:36:56 PM


Seriously, I don't care about your unbroken pope malarkey or your personal statements of faith or even the bald-faced statements of faith concerning your christ-cult. When I asked for evidence that your bible had been compiled with any sort of veracity, you responded with a mere statement of faith â€" that you believed it to be so under the guidance of your god... a god that you have yet to show had any existence at all and as such is capable of anything.

You can believe with all your heart that a bridge will stay up, but you can't be sure of the fact without actual knowledge of engineering and construction.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 03:54:29 PM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on July 31, 2014, 02:36:56 PM


Seriously, I don't care about your unbroken pope malarkey or your personal statements of faith or even the bald-faced statements of faith concerning your christ-cult. When I asked for evidence that your bible had been compiled with any sort of veracity, you responded with a mere statement of faith â€" that you believed it to be so under the guidance of your god... a god that you have yet to show had any existence at all and as such is capable of anything.

You can believe with all your heart that a bridge will stay up, but you can't be sure of the fact without actual knowledge of engineering and construction.
apparently you have not been reading my posts.  I I told you I'm not a good Catholic and I don't believe all of what the Church teaches.  The Church is very biblical and believe s that the Bible is without error.  I never said I did and I never said I can prove any existence of God.

I have said that I have come here multiple times to teach what the Church teaches or answer questions about Catholicism .  I didn't come here to prove to anybody that the teachings of the Catholic Church are true or that you should convert.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on July 31, 2014, 04:01:17 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 09:56:12 AM
read my post again. Where did I say I wouldn't try to answer every question?  I said I didn't say I would respond to every POST.  Not every post contains a question!

I'm not here to convert anybody but to speak about Catholic apologetics. I'm not telling anyone they have to believe what I do.

I wish we had the karma system, this is deserving of a smite.

-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on July 31, 2014, 04:14:16 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 03:54:29 PM
apparently you have not been reading my posts.  I I told you I'm not a good Catholic and I don't believe all of what the Church teaches.  The Church is very biblical and believe s that the Bible is without error.  I never said I did and I never said I can prove any existence of God.

I have said that I have come here multiple times to teach what the Church teaches or answer questions about Catholicism .  I didn't come here to prove to anybody that the teachings of the Catholic Church are true or that you should convert.
(http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/table+flip_f27ff0_3932526.gif)

Answer a fucking question when you're asked or get off of the forum! We are not interested in hearing you proselytize!
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 04:41:16 PM
once again, which questions have I not answered?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Unbeliever on July 31, 2014, 06:49:45 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 19, 2014, 08:48:14 PM
Don't worry about me guys.  Not only can you guys all gang up on me but the other theists  will as well so you will have fun with me I'm sure.

by the way, I can see biblically why the Church teaches about contraceptives but personally I think contraceptives are a good thing.
Also I believe priests should be allowed to marry.

I think the ban on women priests is very biblical but I certainly do not feel strong about that issue and believed that is a vocation that women could do very well at.

According to the NT, it was a woman who first saw the ressurected Christ. Why should women therefore be denied the opportunity to serve God in the capacity of a priest?

And It was Peter, the "first Pope" who thrice denied knowing Jesus.
QuoteBut whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Matt. 10:33


Given this, how could Peter ever have been any kind of an intecessor between God and man, such as a pope is supposed to be?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Poison Tree on July 31, 2014, 07:01:19 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 02:00:36 PM
No I wouldn't but perhaps God would permit it for the greater good.  Meaning for some reason God's ways are that sin must be atoned  for through suffering and sacrifice.  That is y in the Old Testament there were sin offerings so that the guilt of one person's sins would be transferred to the suffering of the sacrificial lamb.
you actually think it is a moral solution for someone to torture an innocent dumb animal in order to somehow pawn off his sins onto it?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: leo on July 31, 2014, 07:33:09 PM
Quote from: Poison Tree on July 31, 2014, 07:01:19 PM
you actually think it is a moral solution for someone to torture an innocent dumb animal in order to somehow pawn off his sins onto it?
.                                                                                                                                                    That's a very stupid superstition. I agree.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on July 31, 2014, 08:20:35 PM
Quote from: stromboli on July 25, 2014, 02:17:07 PM
Okay so, I'll be nice. What is your opinion on this thread
http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=5797.0

And this thread? Really like to get your comments.
http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=5812.0

Please read these links and respond to them. This is a debate forum. If you do not, it will confirm you are a troll.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on July 31, 2014, 09:57:56 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 03:54:29 PM
apparently you have not been reading my posts.  I I told you I'm not a good Catholic and I don't believe all of what the Church teaches.  The Church is very biblical and believe s that the Bible is without error.  I never said I did and I never said I can prove any existence of God.
Again, who the fuck cares if you're a good Catholic or not? If you want to admit that the Catholic church bases its assertion that the Bible is without error on fuck all, fair enough, but don't waffle and whine when you're put on the spot. This is a thread where we ask and you answer. If you are unable to do that, then you should not have started the thread in the first place.

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 03:54:29 PM
I have said that I have come here multiple times to teach what the Church teaches or answer questions about Catholicism .  I didn't come here to prove to anybody that the teachings of the Catholic Church are true or that you should convert.
Again, you set yourself up as the Expert Catholic in this thread. That means having a solid grip on the material, so that you may ask reasonable questions posed to you. You have not done this. Now answer my questions (http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=5718.msg1032203#msg1032203) in an intelligent way or fuck off.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on August 01, 2014, 01:41:56 AM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 03:54:29 PM
apparently you have not been reading my posts.  I I told you I'm not a good Catholic and I don't believe all of what the Church teaches.  The Church is very biblical and believe s that the Bible is without error.  I never said I did and I never said I can prove any existence of God.

I have said that I have come here multiple times to teach what the Church teaches or answer questions about Catholicism .  I didn't come here to prove to anybody that the teachings of the Catholic Church are true or that you should convert.

And it never at any point in your addled brain dawned on you that we don't want you to answer questions and don't give a shit about your beliefs.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on August 01, 2014, 03:52:40 AM
Simply put CC, if you create an open debate thread with the purpose of asking you, a Catholic, any question, that implies you have an answer for said questions. You've pretty much said through that you don't have all the answers, so I don't think it was worth making that kind of statement that you might, in an effort to teach what you know about Catholicism to atheists on an atheist website.

You kind of left yourself open for a lot to be thrown at you. Best thing to do is withdraw now, I don't like seeing someone backed into a corner (unless they are evil bastards, which you clearly are not)
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on August 01, 2014, 04:15:07 AM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 12:53:42 AM
Also in regard to my statement about responding to every post, I never said i would do that.  if you have a question I will try to you answer it. please let me know what your question is or if there is an earlier question that I failed to answer.

Opening statement made by you when you started this topic:

Quotethis is a thread where I answer questions anyone has about the Catholic Church.

You say this in your second comment:

QuoteDon't worry about me guys.  Not only can you guys all gang up on me but the other theists  will as well so you will have fun with me I'm sure.

This tells me that every question anyone poses to you you will answer yet now you say, "I never said I would..."?

That's exactly what you said you would do.

You lost. Game over. Fuck off.

-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on August 01, 2014, 08:31:58 AM
You got to admire a man with the courage to stand up to which ever way the wind blows.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: SGOS on August 01, 2014, 08:51:10 AM
What we really need is for the Pope to come to the forum and start a thread where he answers questions about the Catholic Church, not some guy that doesn't agree with the church, and doesn't seem to have a real purpose in being here.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 02:36:56 PM
Quote from: Nam on August 01, 2014, 04:15:07 AM
Opening statement made by you when you started this topic:

You say this in your second comment:

This tells me that every question anyone poses to you you will answer yet now you say, "I never said I would..."?

That's exactly what you said you would do.

You lost. Game over. Fuck off.

-Nam
.your statement is false.  I never said that I said I wouldn't respond to every question.  if I forgot about an earlier question I asked you to remind me and I will get to them even if it isn't instantaneously or within 24 hours.

I said I wouldn't respond to every post. Not every post contains a question.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 02:46:16 PM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on July 19, 2014, 11:25:36 PM
Why do you think that you're any more qualified to answer questions about catholicism than the infamous catholic idiot with the user-name 'Eve' was?

What made the Catholic church qualified to choose the first biblical canon?

Why should a protestant trust a papal definitive and summary pronouncement of scripture over any live, evolving scholarly discussion of said scripture?
maybe there are people on this site that are more qualified.

as Catholic we believe that the Catholic Church was qualified to decide the original Canon goes back to Acts chapter 15.  the apostles as the Church authority of that time had a council and they made a decision that totally contradicted the Scriptures of that time, but since they are the church authorities they were guided by the Holy Spirit and their decision was final.

the Church believes that the authority of the Apostles was passed on to their successors.  when the church has a council we believe that that council is guided by the Holy Spirit as was the council in Acts chapter 15.  so the Church believes that the decisions of the councils of Rome, Carthage, and hippo were guided by the Holy Spirit and this was the canon that God desired.

Martin Luther decided that he knew better.  Protestants accept his decision on the canon.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 02:56:54 PM
Quote from: SGOS on August 01, 2014, 08:51:10 AM
What we really need is for the Pope to come to the forum and start a thread where he answers questions about the Catholic Church, not some guy that doesn't agree with the church, and doesn't seem to have a real purpose in being here.
just because I disagree with the church doesn't mean that the church is wrong.  just because I don't understand why the Church teaches what she does, I'm not saying that I am smarter than the Magisterium, the Pope, or two thousand years of Christian tradition.

that's what  Martin Luther decided except for it was 1500 years of tradition that he was rejecting.

I have a oppinions that are not in line with the church, but I do not know these opinions to be factual with certainty.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 03:20:17 PM
Quote from: Munch on August 01, 2014, 03:52:40 AM
Simply put CC, if you create an open debate thread with the purpose of asking you, a Catholic, any question, that implies you have an answer for said questions. You've pretty much said through that you don't have all the answers, so I don't think it was worth making that kind of statement that you might, in an effort to teach what you know about Catholicism to atheists on an atheist website.

You kind of left yourself open for a lot to be thrown at you. Best thing to do is withdraw now, I don't like seeing someone backed into ar corner (unless they are evil bastards, which you clearly are not)
I can handle whatever consequences there are of starting a topic that interests me on an atheist website.

I hope that there would be more theists here.  I want to discuss what I find to be interesting on a site that is not full of rules that say you have to be fake and act like you're someone you're not or you will get banned.

I think most Christian sites out there would ban me for saying what I say here.

also I have every intention of answering any question but sometimes the answer will be I don't know.  do I know that God exists? No I do not know that because it is an issue of faith. If I knew,  it wouldn't be faith.

my religion is called the Catholic faith not the Catholic proof.  the word faith essentially is a declaration of something that can not be proven or the word would not be appropriate.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 03:29:44 PM
Quote from: stromboli on July 31, 2014, 08:20:35 PM
Please read these links and respond to them. This is a debate forum. If you do not, it will confirm you are a troll.
I believe church authorities make an extremely asinine decision when they harbor a pedophile, do not take the faculties of a pedophile away, or try to prevent a pedophile from suffering the legal Consequences of his actions.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 03:40:08 PM
Quote from: Unbeliever on July 31, 2014, 06:49:45 PM
According to the NT, it was a woman who first saw the ressurected Christ. Why should women therefore be denied the opportunity to serve God in the capacity of a priest?

And It was Peter, the "first Pope" who thrice denied knowing Jesus. Matt. 10:33


Given this, how could Peter ever have been any kind of an intecessor between God and man, such as a pope is supposed to be?
Peter didn't do anything worse than King David or a lot of the prophets of the Old Testament.  every intercessor is a great sinner. 

Jesus Christ chose twelve men to be his apostles.  the all male priesthood is biblical both in the New and Old Testament.  it does not mean that men are more holy.  the Church teaches that the holiest human being to walk the world was a woman.

but she was not a priest.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 03:47:36 PM
Quote from: Poison Tree on July 31, 2014, 07:01:19 PM
you actually think it is a moral solution for someone to torture an innocent dumb animal in order to somehow pawn off his sins onto it?
if scripture didn't say so I certainly would not believe that such an action were a good thing. Apparently God believes in to be the solution.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: leo on August 01, 2014, 03:49:51 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 03:47:36 PM
if scripture didn't say so I certainly would not believe that such an action were a good thing. Apparently God believes in to be the solution.
Because your god is a asshole.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on August 01, 2014, 03:49:52 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 02:36:56 PM
.your statement is false.  I never said that I said I wouldn't respond to every question.  if I forgot about an earlier question I asked you to remind me and I will get to them even if it isn't instantaneously or within 24 hours.

I said I wouldn't respond to every post. Not every post contains a question.

Don't be a semantic dick. We all know what you meant. Stop playing word games.

-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 04:04:52 PM
Quote from: Nam on August 01, 2014, 03:49:52 PM
Don't be a semantic dick. We all know what you meant. Stop playing word games.

-Nam
I know what I meant and you will read what I meant not only in that post but in previous posts if you'd like me to give you the quotes or the number of the post I will , but I'd rather you just went back and figure it out for yourself.

tell me that I am lying in this post and I will prove you wrong.

your statement was false and I know that with a complete 100 percent certainty.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: aitm on August 01, 2014, 04:08:33 PM
 18 pages....

:music2:
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Poison Tree on August 01, 2014, 04:10:46 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 03:47:36 PM
if scripture didn't say so I certainly would not believe that such an action were a good thing. Apparently God believes in to be the solution.
Why surrender your moral compass to the bible? Are you also ok with slavery and genocide? The bible is. What is your position on killing babies? I know that Catholics are ordered to think that abortion is murder (setting aside the argument over fetus vs baby) but the bible say that, not only did god order babies to be killed, he actually killed them with his own hand.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 04:20:55 PM
Quote from: Poison Tree on August 01, 2014, 04:10:46 PM
Why surrender your moral compass to the bible? Are you also ok with slavery and genocide? The bible is. What is your position on killing babies? I know that Catholics are ordered to think that abortion is murder (setting aside the argument over fetus vs baby) but the bible say that, not only did god order babies to be killed, he actually killed them with his own hand.
well the church doesn't always and usually doesn't take the Bible to be literal.  God has the authority to give and take away.  he can create a creature and then remove the creature.

I believe that life begins at conception.  however I would rather a person w ere to die as a baby than live a life of suffering as so many people do and dying in agony.  but at the same time I do not claim myself to be smarter than God.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Poison Tree on August 01, 2014, 04:26:27 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 04:20:55 PM
well the church doesn't always and usually doesn't take the Bible to be literal.  God has the authority to give and take away.  he can create a creature and then remove the creature.

I believe that life begins at conception.  however I would rather a person w ere to die as a baby than live a life of suffering as so many people do and dying in agony.  but at the same time I do not claim myself to be smarter than God.
I don't know what questions you were trying to answer there, but you certainly didn't address mine. But, you know, if you actually want to try and show that genocide and slavery and child killing in the bible was not to be taken literally go ahead. You excuses for that couldn't be any more pathetic then your last reply already is.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 05:11:24 PM
.no I do not believe in slavery or genocide.

jesus said that the greatest commandment is to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.  we are commanded to love our enemies.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Poison Tree on August 01, 2014, 05:33:21 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 05:11:24 PM
.no I do not believe in slavery or genocide.

jesus said that the greatest commandment is to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.  we are commanded to love our enemies.
Are you saying that god was wrong to, according to the bible, sanction slavery and order (not to mention author) genocide?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Icarus on August 01, 2014, 05:35:47 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 05:11:24 PM
.no I do not believe in slavery or genocide.

jesus said that the greatest commandment is to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.  we are commanded to love our enemies.

I think he was talking about killing people with a smile on your face.

http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm

Remember, you don't have to take everything in the bible literally right? By killing your enemies with a smile you are showing them love by making them meet with your god the instant you kill them. Once they have met your god, they are now followers of your religion, thus you have shown them the greatest love your religion can give.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on August 01, 2014, 05:56:10 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 02:46:16 PM
as Catholic we believe that the Catholic Church was qualified to decide the original Canon goes back to Acts chapter 15.  the apostles as the Church authority of that time had a council and they made a decision that totally contradicted the Scriptures of that time, but since they are the church authorities they were guided by the Holy Spirit and their decision was final.

the Church believes that the authority of the Apostles was passed on to their successors.  when the church has a council we believe that that council is guided by the Holy Spirit as was the council in Acts chapter 15.  so the Church believes that the decisions of the councils of Rome, Carthage, and hippo were guided by the Holy Spirit and this was the canon that God desired.
So you admit that the Catholic Church's authority is only a matter of their belief. They believe that they were guided by the holy spirit, and so they believe that their decision in choosing the biblical canon was correct.

In short, there were no actual qualifications in the church when choosing canon. That is, there was nobody with specific knowledge and skills accumulated by study that allowed them to discriminate between what actually represented a hypothetical "god's" desires and man's desires. Hell, there were no assurances at all that any of the candidates for canon were genuinely "god's" desires at all.

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 02:46:16 PM
Martin Luther decided that he knew better.  Protestants accept his decision on the canon.
False. Martin Luther did not rewrite the canon. At best, he translated it into his native German, because he knew that in order for a person to be his own clergy, he would have to be able to read and understand the bible. But the bible he translated was the same bible that the Catholic church used.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Bibliofagus on August 01, 2014, 06:10:34 PM

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 31, 2014, 02:00:36 PM
No I wouldn't but perhaps God would permit it for the greater good.

Nononono. YOU told me suffering is for the greater good.
My question is: do you try to make the life of your loved ones more miserable? And if you don't... Why not?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 06:40:05 PM
Quote from: Poison Tree on August 01, 2014, 05:33:21 PM
Are you saying that god was wrong to, according to the bible, sanction slavery and order (not to mention author) genocide?
I say in my personal opinion it looks wrong.  jesus never said killing people including your enemies is ok and neither does the Catechism.

however God gets to decide what's right and what's wrong, not me.  sometimes if a limb gets infected you have to cut it off to save the rest of the body.

that could possibly be the philosophy behind the removal of some of those cities in the Old Testament.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 06:41:17 PM
Quote from: Hakurei Reimu on August 01, 2014, 05:56:10 PM
So you admit that the Catholic Church's authority is only a matter of their belief. They believe that they were guided by the holy spirit, and so they believe that their decision in choosing the biblical canon was correct.

In short, there were no actual qualifications in the church when choosing canon. That is, there was nobody with specific knowledge and skills accumulated by study that allowed them to discriminate between what actually represented a hypothetical "god's" desires and man's desires. Hell, there were no assurances at all that any of the candidates for canon were genuinely "god's" desires at all.
False. Martin Luther did not rewrite the canon. At best, he translated it into his native German, because he knew that in order for a person to be his own clergy, he would have to be able to read and understand the bible. But the bible he translated was the same bible that the Catholic church used.
Martin Luther removed 7 books that had been in the canon of the Christian Bible for almost 1200 years prior to his decision.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Poison Tree on August 01, 2014, 06:56:24 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 06:40:05 PM
however God gets to decide what's right and what's wrong, not me. 
So you are surrendering moral compass. But why? Why does god, especially via the bible, get to make moral decisions, and not you? What do you do when your personal views conflict with what you are told god wants you to do, just close your eyes, hold your nose and to with the flow?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Bibliofagus on August 01, 2014, 06:59:02 PM

Quote from: aitm on August 01, 2014, 04:08:33 PM
18 pages....

:music2:

Heh.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Contemporary Protestant on August 01, 2014, 07:08:07 PM
Whats your opinion on the description of heavens gates in revelation, hint, peter isnt the gate keeper,

And what is your opinion on the book Hebrews



Lastly, i dont put faith in martin luther, i simply dont trust organized religion, especially on an extremley large scale
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 07:52:12 PM
thanks be to God! There is a Protestant here.  you don't trust organized religion?

I can see why.

I'll answer more questions later folks my phone is about to die any second now.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Contemporary Protestant on August 01, 2014, 07:59:11 PM
Im going to be honest, i dont like your attitude, you act like catholicism is superior
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: leo on August 01, 2014, 08:05:03 PM
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on August 01, 2014, 07:59:11 PM
Im going to be honest, i dont like your attitude, you act like catholicism is superior
But atleast the catholic dude answer us how often he crap and fart in the first pages  of the thread.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on August 02, 2014, 07:24:44 AM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 07:52:12 PM
thanks be to God! There is a Protestant here. you don't trust organized religion?

I can see why.

I'll answer more questions later folks my phone is about to die any second now.

You do remember this is an atheist forum, right? You act like your being ganged up on without provocation, but you walked into an atheist setting and started to preach stuff, so don't act like your not deserving of some ridicule here.

An atheist doesn't walk into a church, tell people what they believe is false, and then expects people in the church to back him or come to his aid, its called a community for a reason.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: SGOS on August 02, 2014, 07:54:35 AM
Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on August 01, 2014, 07:59:11 PM
Im going to be honest, i dont like your attitude, you act like catholicism is superior
I think the fundamental riff between Catholicism and the Protestantism is that Luther advocated becoming involved in your own salvation, and believed you must build a personal relationship with your savior, rather than with your priest or the faceless dogma of your church.  For Catholics, its more about letting the church do the work for you.  Just say whatever magic words the priest requires and you're home free.

If you truly believe in salvation, I would think it's much too important to leave in the hands of a bunch of degenerates.  Protestantism is less organized than Catholicism in that regard, yet within the small sects, organization and groupthink most certainly does exist.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: leo on August 02, 2014, 11:51:06 AM
Forget about Catholicism and Protestantism. The true faith is toothfairysm.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on August 02, 2014, 11:57:23 AM
Quote from: leo on August 02, 2014, 11:51:06 AM
Forget about Catholicism and Protestantism. The true faith is toothfairysm.

but she expects the pain of losing ones tooth in exchange for gifts.

with Santarysm, santa delivers you presents for not slapping your little brother, and gives guys like rolf harris coal shoved up his ass.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: SGOS on August 02, 2014, 12:46:31 PM
Quote from: Munch on August 02, 2014, 11:57:23 AM
but she expects the pain of losing ones tooth in exchange for gifts.
Weren't we recently informed in another thread that we must suffer in order to grow and become better people?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on August 02, 2014, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 04:04:52 PM
I know what I meant and you will read what I meant not only in that post but in previous posts if you'd like me to give you the quotes or the number of the post I will , but I'd rather you just went back and figure it out for yourself.

tell me that I am lying in this post and I will prove you wrong.

your statement was false and I know that with a complete 100 percent certainty.

Troll.

-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on August 02, 2014, 01:50:41 PM
Quote from: SGOS on August 02, 2014, 07:54:35 AM
I think the fundamental riff between Catholicism and the Protestantism is that Luther advocated becoming involved in your own salvation, and believed you must build a personal relationship with your savior, rather than with your priest or the faceless dogma of your church.  For Catholics, its more about letting the church do the work for you.  Just say whatever magic words the priest requires and you're home free while you give them your life savings.

If you truly believe in salvation, I would think it's much too important to leave in the hands of a bunch of degenerates.  Protestantism is less organized than Catholicism in that regard, yet within the small sects, organization and groupthink most certainly does exist.

Fixed the end of your first paragraph.

-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 02, 2014, 03:00:13 PM
Quote from: Poison Tree on August 01, 2014, 06:56:24 PM
So you are surrendering moral compass. But why? Why does god, especially via the bible, get to make moral decisions, and not you? What do you do when your personal views conflict with what you are told god wants you to do, just close your eyes, hold your nose and to with the flow?
I'm not surrendering my moral compass. I have an opinion on these issues and I think what I see the Israelites doing in the Old Testament is absolutely wrong.  I also think that God should have simply spoken to people and help them understand and give them a new heart like he said he would rather than just flood the whole world.

when my views contradicted those of God or the church, I remember the greatest commandment to do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and what our Lord said about salvation in Matthew 25. I was hungry and you gave me to eat in, thirsty and you gave me to drink, sick and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me, in need of clothing and you clothed.

the Bible commands us to do many things which I don't understand it but I also remember that the greatest commandment is love and to treat others well , so if it is the greatest commandment , the other commandments have less importance.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on August 02, 2014, 03:08:50 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 06:41:17 PM
Martin Luther removed 7 books that had been in the canon of the Christian Bible for almost 1200 years prior to his decision.
Bullshit. Luther's entire point with breaking with the Catholic church was that the Bible was the only revealed truth of God, whereas the Catholic priesthood would add to it and thus distort it. Why would he change what he thought was the word of God?

It is true that the Luther bible (finished in 1534) is different from the Vulgate, but you are wrong that Luther omitted books that had been canon for 1200 prior â€" there really was no authorative Catholic canon until after Luther's bible in the Council of Trent (1545-63) in response to the Protestant reformation. That implies that the Catholic canon up until that point wasn't as inviolate as you claim.

Martin Luther was cognizant enough to realize that just because the Catholic church said something didn't make it true. He didn't realize that the same principle applied to the Bible.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Poison Tree on August 02, 2014, 03:21:35 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 02, 2014, 03:00:13 PM
I'm not surrendering my moral compass.
You said:
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 03:47:36 PM
if scripture didn't say so I certainly would not believe that such an action [torturing an innocent dumb animal] were a good thing. Apparently God believes in to be the solution.
If this isn't an admission that you are suppressing your own morals what is it?
Then
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 01, 2014, 06:40:05 PM
God gets to decide what's right and what's wrong, not me. 
Sure reads like you are throwing away your ability to judge morality.

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 02, 2014, 03:00:13 PM
when my views contradicted those of God or the church, I remember the greatest commandment to do unto others as you would have them do unto you,
And when, in your view, the actions of god or the church go against this greatest commandment?

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 02, 2014, 03:00:13 PM
I have an opinion on these issues and I think what I see the Israelites doing in the Old Testament is absolutely wrong.  I also think that God should have simply spoken to people and help them understand and give them a new heart like he said he would rather than just flood the whole world.
Good. But what is your explanation for why god's orders in the OT were so contrary to this greatest commandment? What do you have to say against the explanation provided by Catharism?
Oh, how silly of me; You'd just tell them that you have 2000 years of popes.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Solitary on August 02, 2014, 04:01:09 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on July 19, 2014, 10:00:17 PM
I see nothing immoral, sinful, or dangerous about allowing a civil contract  between a gay couple.  But I personally do not believe that it is a marriage.
Changing the normal definition of marriage to satisfy your agenda? So only a marriage can be performed in a church, Church, or between a man and woman to be a marriage? Are you that indoctrinated by Catholic dogma to believe that?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on August 02, 2014, 04:04:43 PM
Marriage was not invented by the church, christianity just took it and made it theirs.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Solitary on August 02, 2014, 04:09:28 PM
I got married to a 8 year old girl when I was the same age---I gave her a ring made from razor grass.  :lol: Solitary
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on August 02, 2014, 04:10:29 PM
Quote from: Solitary on August 02, 2014, 04:09:28 PM
I got married to a 8 year old girl when I was the same age---I gave her a ring made from razor grass.  :lol: Solitary

In Islam, thats considered legal.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Nam on August 02, 2014, 09:30:33 PM
Quote from: Munch on August 02, 2014, 04:04:43 PM
Marriage was not invented by the church, christianity just took it and made it theirs.

As they do with everything.

-Nam
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 09, 2014, 03:50:10 PM
beings that I know how religious orders work, each of them has a charism that they are faithful to. Dominicans teach, Benedictines are more into liturgical prayer but also teachers and woodworkers and sometimes hospital staff, Franciscans often work in hospitals, or soup kitchens, or hospices, and sometimes leper colonies.

A good portion of the nuns in this country are working in hospitals and teaching positions or as social workers. contemplatives like the Carmelites typically live In cloisters and pray incessantly. mother Teresa said that her orders work is contemplatives in action. The charism never was one of providing medical care to people are nursing them back to health.

If people were wanting to donate to such an order they should first know what the orders charism is.if you want to donate your money to an order that educates the poor and provide them medical care and social services, do not donate money to the Carmelites. their charism has nothing to do with that. if you donate to the Missionaries of Charity, what's likely your money is going to be going towards is providing people with food and a bed, and a roof, not medical care. 
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 09, 2014, 03:52:19 PM
Quote from: Solitary on August 02, 2014, 04:01:09 PM
Changing the normal definition of marriage to satisfy your agenda? So only a marriage can be performed in a church, Church, or between a man and woman to be a marriage? Are you that indoctrinated by Catholic dogma to believe that?
no I just believe that true marriage is between a man and a woman.  but I have nothing against gay couples receiving the full  benefits from the government.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 09, 2014, 03:57:40 PM
Quote from: Poison Tree on August 02, 2014, 03:21:35 PM
You said:If this isn't an admission that you are suppressing your own morals what is it?
ThenSure reads like you are throwing away your ability to judge morality.
And when, in your view, the actions of god or the church go against this greatest commandment?
Good. But what is your explanation for why god's orders in the OT were so contrary to this greatest commandment? What do you have to say against the explanation provided by Catharism?
Oh, how silly of me; You'd just tell them that you have 2000 years of popes.
it isn't exactly a suppression of my own morals , I consider a lot of God's actions wrong,  but at the same time am open to the possibility that my judgments are not correct and there is a reason behind it that I don't understand it.

when the actions of the church go against the greatest commandment, I know it's because the church is made up of sinners, not because of what the Magisterium by the Catechism teach.

I have always wondered and still have not come to a conclusion as to why God behaves in a way that seems to be the violation of the most important commandment that he taught.

tell me specifically about what you want me to respond to about Catharism.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on August 09, 2014, 04:16:53 PM
CC, you can't claim to be apart from a system of belief and yet still follow what it preaches. Thats like a muslim coming to the uk saying he'll respect the customs of the country, yet carries on subjugating women as slaves.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Solitary on August 09, 2014, 04:24:29 PM
 CatholicCrusader


    Insert Quote
Why do you believe? Can't you think for yourself? Solitary
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Poison Tree on August 09, 2014, 05:16:36 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 09, 2014, 03:57:40 PM
tell me specifically about what you want me to respond to about Catharism.
Specifically what I asked, What do you have to say against the explanation provided by Catharism for why god's orders in the OT were so contrary to this greatest commandment?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on August 09, 2014, 07:08:26 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 09, 2014, 03:50:10 PM
beings that I know how religious orders work
What, and you think we don't? You seem to be mistaking lack of agreement for lack of knowledge.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on August 09, 2014, 07:34:43 PM
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on August 09, 2014, 07:08:26 PM
What, and you think we don't? You seem to be mistaking lack of agreement for lack of knowledge.

yeah, I'm finding it funny that someone who calls himself a catholic comes onto an athiest forum believing he can teach people about Catholicism, when there are many people who were more then likely were Catholics and left it. So they already know what its all about, and nobody else gives a shit about Catholicism.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Poison Tree on August 09, 2014, 10:26:54 PM
Quote from: Munch on August 09, 2014, 07:34:43 PM
yeah, I'm finding it funny that someone who calls himself a catholic comes onto an athiest forum believing he can teach people about Catholicism, when there are many people who were more then likely were Catholics and left it. So they already know what its all about, and nobody else gives a shit about Catholicism.
I find it funnier that he evidently came here thinking he'd teach the vast number of protestants he expected to find here about Catholicism.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: EntirelyOfThisWorld on August 10, 2014, 12:36:04 AM
I was catholic by virtue of the water sprinkle ritual performed on me as a non-consenting infant in 1955.  As I became self aware, I started having doubts.  By the time I was 17, I was sure it was BS.

Go ahead. . . ask THIS catholic.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hydra009 on August 10, 2014, 12:36:11 AM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 09, 2014, 03:50:10 PMIf people were wanting to donate to such an order they should first know what the orders charism is.if you want to donate your money to an order that educates the poor and provide them medical care and social services, do not donate money to the Carmelites. their charism has nothing to do with that. if you donate to the Missionaries of Charity, what's likely your money is going to be going towards is providing people with food and a bed, and a roof, not medical care.
Or better yet, donate to a charity explicitly founded to tackle some specific problem.  Your money will more likely be used to actually help people and less likely to used on non-charity church expenses.  *coughs (http://kenraggio.com/Pope-Gold-Pearls.jpg)*

Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 09, 2014, 03:57:40 PMI have always wondered and still have not come to a conclusion as to why God behaves in a way that seems to be the violation of the most important commandment that he taught.
Yeah, that's a toughie.  Tell ya what, I'll give you three guesses and let you know if you're hot or cold.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: leo on August 10, 2014, 07:57:15 PM
Quote from: EntirelyOfThisWorld on August 10, 2014, 12:36:04 AM
I was catholic by virtue of the water sprinkle ritual performed on me as a non-consenting infant in 1955.  As I became self aware, I started having doubts.  By the time I was 17, I was sure it was BS.

Go ahead. . . ask THIS catholic.
Cool story bro. My case is exactly like yours with the difference that I was born in 1979. I woke up from this bullshit at age 16. I will never forget this.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Brian37 on August 10, 2014, 10:01:04 PM
My question is? Knowing the age of our species, and knowing that Catholics were not the first religion on the face of the planet, and knowing that polytheism existed long before even the Hebrews, why do you think you got the right book and the right church?

You do understand that all religious people worldwide think they got it right too.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Mr.Obvious on August 11, 2014, 05:11:24 AM
I think he already answered that one. I believe it comes down to 'popes'. But why that proves anything outside of circular reasoning, I don't know.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 11, 2014, 04:51:34 PM
Quote from: Munch on August 09, 2014, 04:16:53 PM
CC, you can't claim to be apart from a system of belief and yet still follow what it preaches. Thats like a muslim coming to the uk saying he'll respect the customs of the country, yet carries on subjugating women as slaves.
that depends. you know I could be wrong about those these things and the church could be right.  I could disagree with my mother or my father, but that doesn't mean I have to run away from them.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 11, 2014, 04:53:04 PM
Quote from: Solitary on August 09, 2014, 04:24:29 PM
CatholicCrusader


    Insert Quote
Why do you believe? Can't you think for yourself? Solitary
I'm not all knowing. 
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 11, 2014, 04:55:29 PM
Quote from: Poison Tree on August 09, 2014, 05:16:36 PM
Specifically what I asked, What do you have to say against the explanation provided by Catharism for why god's orders in the OT were so contrary to this greatest commandment?
that is one of my biggest questions for any theologian our apologist.  I simply do not understand it nor do I have the answer for you right now but I may get back to you on it.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: DunkleSeele on August 11, 2014, 05:10:39 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 11, 2014, 04:53:04 PM
I'm not all knowing. 
No, but I know who you are... :wink2:

Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on August 11, 2014, 05:11:47 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 11, 2014, 04:55:29 PM
that is one of my biggest questions for any theologian our apologist.  I simply do not understand it nor do I have the answer for you right now but I may get back to you on it.
Make sure the answers you consider include, "Because it's made up." Not considering that answer is the main reason we don't take apologetics seriously.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on August 11, 2014, 05:18:36 PM
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on August 11, 2014, 05:11:47 PM
Make sure the answers you consider include, "Because it's made up." Not considering that answer is the main reason we don't take apologetics seriously.

I classify this whole thing as argumentum ad wtf?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Green Bottle on August 11, 2014, 07:09:42 PM
Hey CC, still wasting ur time trying to convert us .

Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 13, 2014, 05:24:24 PM
Quote from: DunkleSeele on August 11, 2014, 05:10:39 PM
No, but I know who you are... :wink2:
I'm flattered!
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: DunkleSeele on August 13, 2014, 05:31:07 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 13, 2014, 05:24:24 PM
I'm flattered!
You shouldn't be.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 13, 2014, 06:18:18 PM
Quote from: DunkleSeele on August 13, 2014, 05:31:07 PM
You shouldn't be.
you should be a forensic pathologist.  or at least an investigator.  you're good at your job.  you would make a good Pope as well!

Check ouch my spider
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 13, 2014, 06:25:28 PM
you are my favorite moderator Uncle Dunkle!

I'll be a good boy now. I promise!  :)

Truce?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: CatholicCrusader on August 13, 2014, 06:30:06 PM
please give me a clean slate and my behavior will be perfect.  I want start a thread with out your permission.  this website is therapy for me.  I'm a troubled boy.  I feel warm and cozy and comfortable here.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Mr.Obvious on August 13, 2014, 06:32:56 PM
Predicting the future is bullshit, right? How come, in this instance, I feel pretty sure I can do it?
Anyone else get the feeling they know where this shit is going?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on August 13, 2014, 07:42:36 PM
Purgatory for this one.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: PickelledEggs on August 13, 2014, 08:47:46 PM
Quote from: CatholicCrusader on August 13, 2014, 06:30:06 PM
please give me a clean slate and my behavior will be perfect.  I want start a thread with out your permission.  this website is therapy for me.  I'm a troubled boy.  I feel warm and cozy and comfortable here.
You are a troubled boy with so many accts that I've lost count. Funny thing is, I thought you were put in purgatory a while ago...

See you in hell, shit-fer-brains.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: SGOS on August 13, 2014, 11:07:58 PM
Quote from: EntirelyOfThisWorld on August 10, 2014, 12:36:04 AM
I was catholic by virtue of the water sprinkle ritual performed on me as a non-consenting infant in 1955.  As I became self aware, I started having doubts.  By the time I was 17, I was sure it was BS.

Go ahead. . . ask THIS catholic.
OK.  So how can you not seriously believe water can be holy, and if you stick your finger in it, and make a magic sign with your hands, some miraculous thing happens?  Come on; What's so hokey sounding about that?  What strikes me as odd is that Catholics know that this is an important part of salvation, but Protestants don't bother with it.  What makes Protestants think  they have a chance at eternal life without believing such a obviously logical thing as holy water?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: PickelledEggs on August 14, 2014, 12:57:06 AM
Quote from: SGOS on August 13, 2014, 11:07:58 PM
OK.  So how can you not seriously believe water can be holy, and if you stick your finger in it, and make a magic sign with your hands, some miraculous thing happens?  Come on; What's so hokey sounding about that?  What strikes me as odd is that Catholics know that this is an important part of salvation, but Protestants don't bother with it.  What makes Protestants think  they have a chance at eternal life without believing such a obviously logical thing as holy water?
The feces gives it the magic power
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hydra009 on August 14, 2014, 01:00:46 AM
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on August 13, 2014, 07:42:36 PM
Purgatory for this one.
Huzzah!

(http://i.imgur.com/s24XH.gif)
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: MagetheEntertainer on September 10, 2014, 10:00:41 PM
Even though you're already banned I'll still ask for the lulz, how many naked alter boys does it take to screw in a light bulb?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Lachish on September 10, 2014, 10:59:16 PM
Quote from: stromboli on July 19, 2014, 08:45:05 PM
Everything you posted in the OP is of no interest to anyone here. We are atheists. Look it up. We really don't give a damn about you or your beliefs and if you want a positive response, try your mother, or whichever priest is currently using your rectum for a joy toy. You will get nothing but negative feedback and are really, really wasting your time.

Expanding one's knowledge is never a bad thing.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Mr.Obvious on September 11, 2014, 03:00:53 AM
True, but most of this thread is hardly anything new. The only 'new' aspect to this knowledge is that we now know how someone named 'catholic crusader' acts and pretended to think online when turning out to be a troll. We could have really expanded our knowledge in a significant and usefull way in the meanwhile.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on September 11, 2014, 07:48:17 AM
This whole thing is based on two outcomes, either catholic crusader is a complete troll and just here for the lolz to try and piss off atheists and former catholics, or he genuinely is sincere about what he's saying, and so trying to 'educate' people who either don't give a shit about what he's trying to tell them, or already know it all because they are former catholics themselves.

In either way, its all pointless. I did try to extend the option of having a more formal debate between atheists a catholic, but its not needed, and we already know the outcome of such a debate.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: GrinningYMIR on September 11, 2014, 09:04:01 AM
You know what, I love it when someone claims that atheist have killed the most people in the world

Stalin was a Christian, most of the Union were Christians when they fought the Germans

Hitler was a Jew by birth and A Christian by practice, though he preferred Islam

Mao was a non-practicing Buddist, he was an Atheist in as much as he didn't subscribe to any of the religious institutions, a lot of his men were "spiritual" too. Hell, the state pretty much made him into a God
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on September 11, 2014, 01:18:24 PM
Of course there have been atheists who have killed, it's a fucked up world we live in after all, but let's consider humanities timeline and how much religion has been part of that, and so by extension how many have killed in the name if their fairy tale gods and goddesses, how many have killed at the manipulation of cult leaders
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hijiri Byakuren on September 11, 2014, 01:27:01 PM
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on September 11, 2014, 09:04:01 AMStalin was a Christian, most of the Union were Christians when they fought the Germans
Pretty sure Stalin was an atheist, and used Russian Orthodoxy as a tool when it suited him.

Quote from: GrinningYMIR on September 11, 2014, 09:04:01 AMHitler was a Jew by birth and A Christian by practice, though he preferred Islam
Gonna need a source on that. As far as I've read, he was a Roman Catholic and never deviated from that stance much.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Lachish on September 11, 2014, 07:53:51 PM
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on September 11, 2014, 09:04:01 AM
You know what, I love it when someone claims that atheist have killed the most people in the world

Stalin was a Christian, most of the Union were Christians when they fought the Germans

Hitler was a Jew by birth and A Christian by practice, though he preferred Islam

Mao was a non-practicing Buddist, he was an Atheist in as much as he didn't subscribe to any of the religious institutions, a lot of his men were "spiritual" too. Hell, the state pretty much made him into a God

If you say Stalin is an atheist, then by your reasoning, all the atheists here who came from Christian homes are also Christians.

Traditional Buddhism as Mao would have observed would also have made him an atheist.

Please look up the definition of atheism before you go around accusing people of not being atheist.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on September 11, 2014, 08:36:22 PM
To say that anyone was a mass murderer because they were an atheist is the same as proclaiming that trousers are the reason people have legs. One does not follow on the other. People commit murder and mass murder for any number of reasons, and likewise any number of excuses. Mass murder committed by Russian Pogroms or Spanish Inquisitions was perhaps excused by a belief system, but political and other reasons were involved as well.

There is no atheist dictum speaking of violent action against any other tribe, sect or culture. There are dictums in judaism and Islam that do speak against other cultures and beliefs. Christians had no problem executing people they saw as pagan or immoral as well.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Lachish on September 14, 2014, 09:57:29 PM
Quote from: stromboli on September 11, 2014, 08:36:22 PM
To say that anyone was a mass murderer because they were an atheist is the same as proclaiming that trousers are the reason people have legs. One does not follow on the other. People commit murder and mass murder for any number of reasons, and likewise any number of excuses. Mass murder committed by Russian Pogroms or Spanish Inquisitions was perhaps excused by a belief system, but political and other reasons were involved as well.

There is no atheist dictum speaking of violent action against any other tribe, sect or culture. There are dictums in judaism and Islam that do speak against other cultures and beliefs. Christians had no problem executing people they saw as pagan or immoral as well.

So what you just described paints Christianity and atheism in the same light. Neither should have a focus on death and destruction, but both have done more killing than those who you claimed had tenants to kill.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on September 14, 2014, 10:53:34 PM
read it again.

QuoteThere is no atheist dictum speaking of violent action against any other tribe, sect or culture.

There is in the Christian Bible.

Quote“This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

There is no dictum or text written to atheists that condones in any way violence towards others. Any actions taken by an atheist are not based on any such dictum. If, on the other hand, a person attacks a religion to claim that religion is evil and must be purged, they do that of their own choosing. THERE IS NO WRITTEN DICTUM IN ATHEISM PROCLAIMING VIOLENCE AGAINST OTHERS.

Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Solitary on September 15, 2014, 02:34:05 PM
It's not as if there haven't been atheists that have killed, but I fail to see why anyone would kill because they don't believe in supernatural nonsense. That makes absolutely no sense at all, and is nonsense in its self. I don't believe in Santa, so I just have to go out and kill now?  :wall: Solitary 
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Lachish on September 15, 2014, 09:15:40 PM
Quote from: Solitary on September 15, 2014, 02:34:05 PM
It's not as if there haven't been atheists that have killed, but I fail to see why anyone would kill because they don't believe in supernatural nonsense. That makes absolutely no sense at all, and is nonsense in its self. I don't believe in Santa, so I just have to go out and kill now?  :wall: Solitary

it's about power and control.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Mike Cl on September 15, 2014, 10:14:47 PM
Quote from: Lachish on September 15, 2014, 09:15:40 PM
it's about power and control.
And that is why Constantine adopted Christianity as  the Roman official religion.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on September 15, 2014, 11:38:22 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 15, 2014, 10:14:47 PM
And that is why Constantine adopted Christianity as  the Roman official religion.

And once again, QED.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: PickelledEggs on September 16, 2014, 02:19:22 AM
Quote from: Lachish on September 15, 2014, 09:15:40 PM
it's about power and control.

Hi Lachish!

I don't think we got an intro from you. Would you mind telling us a bit about yourself in the intro section (http://atheistforums.com/index.php?board=2.0)?  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Johan on September 16, 2014, 07:02:27 AM
Quote from: Lachish on September 15, 2014, 09:15:40 PM
it's about power and control.
Right exactly. Its about power and control period. Atheism has nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on September 16, 2014, 07:59:14 AM
Atheism is the absent of being indoctrinated from a cult following. And while we do have such things as this here community website, I consider my standing as an atheist to be my own individual thought. 

The only issue I found does come from these organised atheist groups that present themselves like a church, which as its been reported appears to be where those who became athiests but couldn't give up the whole communion preaching bullshit. Some people can't get it out of their heads and need someone to order them around, even without religious dogma, which more highlights a psychological problem for them.

Luckily I've never been in a position of being forced into indoctrinated circles, so have never felt the overwhelming need to have a preacher yell at me.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Mike Cl on September 16, 2014, 08:44:09 AM
Quote from: Munch on September 16, 2014, 07:59:14 AM
Atheism is the absent of being indoctrinated from a cult following. And while we do have such things as this here community website, I consider my standing as an atheist to be my own individual thought. 

The only issue I found does come from these organised atheist groups that present themselves like a church, which as its been reported appears to be where those who became athiests but couldn't give up the whole communion preaching bullshit. Some people can't get it out of their heads and need someone to order them around, even without religious dogma, which more highlights a psychological problem for them.

Luckily I've never been in a position of being forced into indoctrinated circles, so have never felt the overwhelming need to have a preacher yell at me.

Munch, I agree with what you said.  But let me amplify a bit.  There are a number of people who like the communal feeling of belonging and a church has traditionally been one of those places one could go to to get that feeling.  A feeling of belonging can be found in other places, such as the military or gangs.  Or the local bridge club or chess club, or the like.  These places are a huge magnet for the sheeple, no doubt and can be found in all of those places.  But not all who go are sheeple, but they still like a place for companionship.  Not all churches are stamped in the traditional mold, such as the Universalist movement and some humanist groups meet in church like settings.  Traditional churches are traditionally social gatherings; organized religion taints it with whatever brand of mind control they use.  An athiest who likes social groups finds that churches, of course, does not fit the bill.  So some form their own brand of gathering.  I think that is a good thing.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on September 16, 2014, 08:58:14 AM
Yeah agreed, its not just the religious minded who feels this way, many people might want to feel part of a community, and finding it that is of their own belief and following is what leads them to it.

I don't follow that myself now. As a gay guy, I use to like hanging around the local gay groups where I live with its community, a weekly get together at a bar or meeting hall to socialize. But even that for me got old and I gave up.
It is understandable people wanting to feel like they have a community, and that has always been one of the pulling factors of any religious group.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Mike Cl on September 16, 2014, 09:26:32 AM
I hear ya, Munch.  I've spent time in groups--the Army, churches, game groups.  Right now I just go my own way.  That may change--or not.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: St Giordano Bruno on September 17, 2014, 07:59:53 PM
Why is the Church so obsessed with such a narrow band of issues such a contraception and homosexuality and how people behave the privacy of their own bedrooms?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Lachish on September 18, 2014, 07:37:36 PM
Quote from: Johan on September 16, 2014, 07:02:27 AM
Right exactly. Its about power and control period. Atheism has nothing to do with it.

It does in so much that authoritarian nations lead by atheists have generally been significantly more violent (based on their actions in the 20th century when they were at their peak) than their religious counterparts. It's a lot easier to assert control without having the need to be quite as violent when you bring religion into the equation.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Munch on September 18, 2014, 07:46:28 PM
Quote from: Lachish on September 18, 2014, 07:37:36 PM
It does in so much that authoritarian nations lead by atheists have generally been significantly more violent (based on their actions in the 20th century when they were at their peak) than their religious counterparts. It's a lot easier to assert control without having the need to be quite as violent when you bring religion into the equation.

The Crusades would argue otherwise. Its estimated around 3,000,000 people died because of that holy war.

Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Moralnihilist on September 18, 2014, 08:12:13 PM
Quote from: Lachish on September 18, 2014, 07:37:36 PM
It does in so much that authoritarian nations lead by atheists have generally been significantly more violent (based on their actions in the 20th century when they were at their peak) than their religious counterparts. It's a lot easier to assert control without having the need to be quite as violent when you bring religion into the equation.

To get some clarification(before ripping your argument to shreds) what "authoritarian nations led by atheists" are you referring to?

And do keep in mind the following:
1. The crusades
2. The inquisition
3. Witch trials

And thats just christianity. Then there are the muslims, greeks, romans, vikings, russian imperialists, etc.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Mike Cl on September 18, 2014, 08:12:59 PM
Quote from: Lachish on September 18, 2014, 07:37:36 PM
It does in so much that authoritarian nations lead by atheists have generally been significantly more violent (based on their actions in the 20th century when they were at their peak) than their religious counterparts. It's a lot easier to assert control without having the need to be quite as violent when you bring religion into the equation.
Can you site some examples of what countries and leaders you are referring to?
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hydra009 on September 18, 2014, 08:15:23 PM
Quote from: Lachish on September 18, 2014, 07:37:36 PMIt does in so much that authoritarian nations lead by atheists have generally been significantly more violent (based on their actions in the 20th century when they were at their peak) than their religious counterparts.
Authoritarian nations led by theists weren't peachy, either.  You're seeing atheism as the problem when authoritarianism was always the actual problem.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: SGOS on September 18, 2014, 08:50:38 PM
Quote from: Lachish on September 18, 2014, 07:37:36 PM
It does in so much that authoritarian nations lead by atheists have generally been significantly more violent (based on their actions in the 20th century when they were at their peak) than their religious counterparts.
As long as you ignore Mideastern Islamic nations, and the very Christian US, then yeah, you might be able to make that claim.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Contemporary Protestant on September 18, 2014, 08:56:34 PM
I agree with Hydra, its authoritarianism thats the problem.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on September 18, 2014, 08:58:09 PM
The world's 10 most peacful countries. They also happen to be the least religious.
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/eglg45gjfkl/and-you-thought-living-here-was-pie-in-the-sky-9/

Oh, and they also have lower percentages of abortion because they advocate and have free birth control. Shit like that.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Lachish on September 18, 2014, 10:24:15 PM
Quote from: Munch on September 18, 2014, 07:46:28 PM
The Crusades would argue otherwise. Its estimated around 3,000,000 people died because of that holy war.

3 million over the course of how many centuries vs. 3 million over the course of a few months?

That's the most worthless list I have ever seen. 100,000 of my people died in the last decade and it still made the most peaceful list. I won't even go back for fear of being decapitated. What a farce.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Mike Cl on September 18, 2014, 10:52:55 PM
Quote from: Lachish on September 18, 2014, 10:24:15 PM
3 million over the course of how many centuries vs. 3 million over the course of a few months?

That's the most worthless list I have ever seen. 100,000 of my people died in the last decade and it still made the most peaceful list. I won't even go back for fear of being decapitated. What a farce.
you lost me--what are you talking about??
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Hydra009 on September 18, 2014, 11:53:46 PM
Quote from: Lachish on September 18, 2014, 10:24:15 PM3 million over the course of how many centuries vs. 3 million over the course of a few months?
Roughly two centuries, though the Crusades is hardly the only example.  Lots of religious wars and much less showy but no less lethal religious violence.

WWII is obviously the reigning champ (Gott mit uns, btw) though I don't see how the existence of wars fought for secular reasons somehow makes religious wars any less horrible.

QuoteThat's the most worthless list I have ever seen. 100,000 of my people died in the last decade and it still made the most peaceful list. I won't even go back for fear of being decapitated. What a farce.
Going to need a couple details here.  Who, what, when, and where.  Maybe a why.

http://www.visionofhumanity.org/#page/indexes/global-peace-index/2014

If you click "Full Stats", they give nice breakdowns for why each country got the rating it did and give their sources, though I would prefer direct links to the sources rather the simply listing the organization they pulled the numbers from.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Solitary on September 19, 2014, 12:24:49 AM
It's no contest, religion wins the war game!

http://godandwar.wikispaces.com/List+of+Religious+Wars

Quote
   Religion 1
   Religion 2
   Religion 3
   Religion 4
Albigensian Crusade
   Christian (Catholic)
   Christian (Cathar)
   
   
Almohad Conquest of Muslim Spain
   Islam
   Christian
   
   
Anglo-Scottish War (1559â€"1560)
   Christian (Protestant)
   Christian (Catholic)
   
   
Arab Conquest of Carthage
   Islam
   Christian (Catholic)
   
   
Aragonese-Castilian War
   
   
   
   
Aragonese-French War (1209â€"1213)
   
   
   
   
First Bearnese Revolt
   
   
   
   
Second Bearnese Revolt
   
   
   
   
Third Bearnese Revolt
   
   
   
   
First Bishop’s War
   
   
   
   
Second Bishop’s War
   
   
   
   
Raids of the Black Hundreds
   
   
   
   
Bohemian Civil War (1465â€"1471)
   
   
   
   
Bohemian Palatine War
   
   
   
   
War in Bosnia
   
   
   
   
Brabant Revolution
   
   
   
   
Byzantine-Muslim War (633â€"642)
   Islam
   Christian (Orthodox)
   
   
Byzantine-Muslim War (645â€"656)
   Islam
   Christian (Orthodox)
   
   
Byzantine-Muslim War (688â€"679)
   Islam
   Christian (Orthodox)
   
   
Byzantine-Muslim War (698â€"718)
   Islam
   Christian (Orthodox)
   
   
Byzantine-Muslim War (739)
   Islam
   Christian (Orthodox)
   
   
Byzantine-Muslim War (741â€"752)
   Islam
   Christian (Orthodox)
   
   
Byzantine-Muslim War (778â€"783)
   Islam
   Christian (Orthodox)
   
   
Byzantine-Muslim War (797â€"798)
   Islam
   Christian (Orthodox)
   
   
Byzantine-Muslim War (803â€"809)
   Islam
   Christian (Orthodox)
   
   
Byzantine-Muslim War (830â€"841)
   Islam
   Christian (Orthodox)
   
   
Byzantine-Muslim War (851â€"863)
   Islam
   Christian (Orthodox)
   
   
Byzantine-Muslim War (871â€"885)
   Islam
   Christian (Orthodox)
   
   
Byzantine-Muslim War (960â€"976)
   Islam
   Christian (Orthodox)
   
   
Byzantine-Muslim War (995â€"999)
   Islam
   Christian (Orthodox)
   
   
Camisards’ Rebellion
   
   
   
   
Castilian Conquest of Toledo
   
   
   
   
Charlemagne’s Invasion of Northern Spain
   
   
   
   
Charlemagne’s War against the Saxons
   Christian
   Pagan
   
   
Count’s War
   
   
   
   
Covenanters’ Rebellion (1666)
   
   
   
   
Covenanters’ Rebellion (1679)
   
   
   
   
Covenanters’ Rebellion (1685)
   
   
   
   
Crimean War
   
   
   
   
First Crusade
   
   
   
   
Second Crusade
   
   
   
   
Third Crusade
   
   
   
   
Fourth Crusade
   
   
   
   
Fifth Crusade
   
   
   
   
Sixth Crusade
   
   
   
   
Seventh Crusade
   
   
   
   
Eighth Crusade
   
   
   
   
Ninth Crusade
   
   
   
   
Crusader-Turkish Wars (1100â€"1146)
   
   
   
   
Crusader-Turkish Wars (1272â€"1291)
   
   
   
   
Danish-Estonian War
   
   
   
   
German Civil War (1077â€"1106)
   
   
   
   
Ghost Dance Uprising
   
   
   
   
Siege of Granada
   
   
   
   
First Iconoclastic War
   
   
   
   
Second Iconoclastic War
   
   
   
   
India-Pakistan Partition War
   
   
   
   
Irish Tithe War
   
   
   
   
Javanese invasion of Malacca
   
   
   
   
Great Java War
   
   
   
   
Kappel Wars
   
   
   
   
Khurramite’s Revolt
   
   
   
   
Lebanese Civil War
   
   
   
   
Wars of the Lombard League
   
   
   
   
Luccan-Florentine War
   
   
   
   
Luccan-Florentine War
   
   
   
   
Holy Wars of the Mad Mullah
   
   
   
   
Maryland’s Religious War
   
   
   
   
Mecca-Medina War
   
   
   
   
Mexican Insurrections
   
   
   
   
War of the Monks
   
   
   
   
Mountain Meadows Massacre
   
   
   
   
Revolt of Muqanna
   
   
   
   
Crusade of Nicopolis
   
   
   
   
Padri War
   
   
   
   
Paulician War
   
   
   
   
Persian Civil War (1500â€"1503)
   
   
   
   
Portuguese-Moroccan War (1458â€"1471)
   
   
   
   
Portuguese-Moroccan War (1578)
   
   
   
   
Portuguese-Omani Wars in East Africa
   
   
   
   
Rajput Rebellion against Aurangzeb
   
   
   
   
Revolt in Ravenna
   
   
   
   
First War of Religion
   
   
   
   
Second War of Religion
   
   
   
   
Third War of Religion
   
   
   
   
Fourth War of Religion
   
   
   
   
Fifth War of Religion
   
   
   
   
Sixth War of Religion
   
   
   
   
Eighth War of Religion
   
   
   
   
Ninth War of Religion
   
   
   
   
Roman-Persian War (421â€"422)
   
   
   
   
Roman-Persian War (441)
   
   
   
   
Russo Turkish War (1877â€"1878)
   
   
   
   
First Sacred War
   
   
   
   
Second Sacred War
   
   
   
   
Third Sacred War
   
   
   
   
Saladin’s Holy War
   
   
   
   
Schmalkaldic War
   
   
   
   
Scottish Uprising against Mary of Guise
   
   
   
   
Serbo-Turkish War
   
   
   
   
Shimabara Revolt
   
   
   
   
War of the Sonderbund
   
   
   
   
Spanish Christian-Muslim War (912â€"928)
   
   
   
   
Spanish Christian-Muslim War (977â€"997)
   
   
   
   
Spanish Christian-Muslim War (1001â€"1031)
   
   
   
   
Spanish Christian-Muslim War (1172â€"1212)
   
   
   
   
Spanish Christian-Muslim War (1230â€"1248)
   
   
   
   
Spanish Christian-Muslim War (1481â€"1492)
   
   
   
   
Spanish Conquests in North Africa
   
   
   
   
Swedish War
   
   
   
   
Thirty Years’ War
   
   
   
   
Transylvania-Hapsburg War
   
   
   
   
Tukulor-French War
   
   
   
   
Turko-Persian Wars
   
   
   
   
United States War on Terror
   
   
   
   
Vellore Mutiny
   
   
   
   
Vjayanagar Wars
   
   
   
   
First Villmergen War
   
   
   
   
Second Villmergen War



Visigothic-Frankish War
   
http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismmyths/p/AtheismKills.htm

A common criticism which atheists raise against religion is how violent religion and religious believers have been in the past. People have slaughtered each other in large numbers either because of differences in religious beliefs or because of other differences which are further justified and intensified through religious rhetoric. Either way, religion has a lot of blood on its hands. Can the same be said for atheists and atheism? Haven't atheists killed more people in the name of atheism than religious theists have killed in the name of their religion? No, because atheism isn't a philosophy or ideology.   
   
How Many Have Been Killed by Communists in the Name of Atheism & Secularism?:


None, probably. How can that be? After all, millions and millions of people died in Russia and China under communist governments — and those governments were both secular and atheistic. So weren't all of those people killed because of atheism — even in the name of atheism and secularism? No, that conclusion does not follow. Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness. Communists Don't Kill in the Name of Atheism...

Hitler Was an Atheist Who Killed Millions in the Name of Atheism, Secularism:


A popular image of the Nazis is that they were fundamentally anti-Christian while devout Christians were anti-Nazi. The truth is that German Christians supported the Nazis because they believed that Adolf Hitler was a gift to the German people from God. Hitler frequently referenced God and Christianity both in public and private. The Nazi Party Program explicitly endorsed and promoted Christianity in the party platform. Millions of Christians in Germany not only enthusiastically supported and endorsed Hitler and the Nazis, but did so on the basis of common Christian beliefs and attitudes. Hitler Was Not an Atheist...
   
Do theist ever look up the facts before they put their foot in their mouth?  :wall:  :blahblah: Solitary
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: stromboli on September 19, 2014, 12:30:17 AM
I don't know. Ask a Catholic.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Shiranu on September 19, 2014, 01:12:13 AM
QuoteThat's the most worthless list I have ever seen. 100,000 of my people died in the last decade and it still made the most peaceful list. I won't even go back for fear of being decapitated. What a farce.

I am assuming you are referring to Mexico, since you are in a Catholic thread.

You do realize they put it on there to point out it is nearly bottom of the list, right? As in... not very peaceful?

Also; I have lived near the border all my life, and don't feel particularly afraid of Mexico. Unless you are going to Juarez, Mexico City Tijuana or Nuevo Loredo you are pretty good. Yeah, you might not want to walk around the streets of the ghetto of Guadalajara or be poking you nose where you shouldn't be in Monterrey... but then again you could say the same things about New York, London or Paris.

I have several friends from Jalisco who are down there quite often and have no problems staying out of trouble. I also have friends who sometimes go to Nuevo Laredo and Juarez and say the same thing... just don't go into the wrong part of town after the sun starts to set. "Gringos" would cross the border all the time between New Mexico & Mexico to buy jewelery, tourist items and get dental work done.

Please stop putting out this erroneous stereotype of Mexico being some lawless wasteland where you are most likely going to get kidnapped and have your head chopped off with a chainsaw before your body is thrown in the Rio. It is no more accurate than saying you are likely to be mugged and stabbed in Chicago or getting shot because you looked at a guy funny in the South. Unless you are putting yourself in a stupid place and situation you are about as safe in most of Mexico as you are in any other major city.

Mexico has a shit load wrong with it but people will never talk about the real problems if they believe the entire nation is some lost cause wasteland. Mexico is a country with an absolutely beautiful mix of cultures and peoples who, unfortunately, are suffering as a result of America's war on drugs funding the cartels and a history of never having a truly strong government to pull all it's diverse backgrounds into one coherent country.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: SGOS on September 19, 2014, 06:49:57 AM
Quote from: stromboli on September 19, 2014, 12:30:17 AM
I don't know. Ask a Catholic.  :biggrin:
Since this thread began, I have asked myself several times, "Why would I want to ask a Catholic anything?"  Still as far as Catholic instruction, this thread hasn't been half as annoying as the insufferable threads that Azzi used to start.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Lachish on September 22, 2014, 07:38:00 PM
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 18, 2014, 10:52:55 PM
you lost me--what are you talking about??

A list of most peaceful countries was posted, one of which experienced a civil war where 10,000 were killed each year, making it one of the deadliest conflicts in the world with more than 100,000 killed so far. I would call that far from peaceful.
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: PickelledEggs on September 22, 2014, 07:51:41 PM
Quote from: Lachish on September 18, 2014, 07:37:36 PM
It does in so much that authoritarian nations lead by atheists have generally been significantly more violent (based on their actions in the 20th century when they were at their peak) than their religious counterparts. It's a lot easier to assert control without having the need to be quite as violent when you bring religion into the equation.

Hi Lachish! Can you please tell us about yourself in the intro section?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Ask a Catholic
Post by: Mike Cl on September 22, 2014, 08:20:13 PM
Quote from: Lachish on September 22, 2014, 07:38:00 PM
A list of most peaceful countries was posted, one of which experienced a civil war where 10,000 were killed each year, making it one of the deadliest conflicts in the world with more than 100,000 killed so far. I would call that far from peaceful.
So would I.  Which country are you referring to??