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Humanities Section => Political/Government General Discussion => Topic started by: Gawdzilla Sama on June 13, 2014, 01:22:39 PM

Title: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on June 13, 2014, 01:22:39 PM
This is from the 1945 Naval Regulations.

The Navy of the United States shall be governed by the following articles (R. S. sec. 1624):

CONDUCT AND MORALS IN GENERAL.

1.
Commander's duties of example and correction.
The commanders of all fleets, squadrons, naval stations, and vessels belonging to the Navy, are required to show in themselves a good example of virtue, honor, patriotism, and subordination; to be vigilant in inspecting the conduct of all persons who are placed under their command; to guard against and suppress all dissolute and immoral practices, and to correct, according to the laws and regulations of the Navy, all persons who are guilty
--3--

of them; and any such commander who offends against this article shall be punished as a court-martial may direct. (R. S. sec. 1624, art. 1.)

2.
Divine service.
The commanders of vessels and naval stations to which chaplains are attached shall cause divine service to be performed on Sunday, whenever the weather and other circumstances allow it to be done; and it is earnestly recommended to all officers, seamen, and others in the naval service diligently to attend at every performance of the worship of Almighty God. (R. S. sec. 1624, art. 2.)

3.
Irreverent behavior.
Any irreverent or unbecoming behavior during divine service shall be punished as a court-martial may direct. (R. S. sec. 1624, art 3; February 16, 1909, ch. 131, secs. 1, 2, 35 Stat. 621.)

Separation of church and state my sweet ass.
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on June 13, 2014, 02:44:08 PM
You got your hands on some time machine?
Yep, I'm converting the US Naval Regulations, 1945 edition, to HTML right now, all 1,000+ pages of the Rocks and Shoals.

Those rules hadn't changed when I joined the Navy in 1969, and were still in place when I retired in 1989. The attitude is still there if not the regs.
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on June 13, 2014, 05:37:57 PM
Kid, are you moral enough to join the army, burn villages, houses, women and children after being a litterbug?  I don't know why that came to mind. :think:
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: KUSA on June 13, 2014, 06:12:30 PM
I was never forced or even encouraged to go to religious services when I was in the Navy.

With that said they did have group prayer and you damned sure better bow your head. 
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on June 13, 2014, 06:43:28 PM
I was being funny about using present tense with WWII. But then while we are at it, may I ask an honest question. What made you think it would/should be very different now?
Well, you shouldn't face court-martial for being an atheist.
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on June 13, 2014, 07:17:17 PM
I don't recall services when I was in the Navy. Perhaps they had them, but I don't remember them. Maybe I was lucky enough to always be doing something else during them or maybe it just didn't seem like the issue then to me that it is now.
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: The Skeletal Atheist on June 13, 2014, 07:41:13 PM
But...but...I heard a few things about being in the Navy...
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on June 14, 2014, 08:19:26 PM
But...but...I heard a few things about being in the Navy...
You're thinking about being adrift at sea for a year with a bunch of sex starved men? You would. :eek:
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: SGOS on June 15, 2014, 04:58:41 AM

 
Kid, are you moral enough to join the army, burn villages, houses, women and children after being a litterbug?  I don't know why that came to mind. :think:
Because that was such a profound yet understated observation during the Vietnam war.  Arlo Guthrie wasn't in the limelight for a long time, but I really enjoyed him while he was.
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on June 15, 2014, 06:32:55 AM
Farside cartoon, Viking ship approaching shore, villagers running around in panic, Viking captain addresses crew.

"And remember, it's 'burn the village', 'kill the men', and 'rape the women'. Can you clowns get it right this time?"
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: frosty on June 15, 2014, 04:43:54 PM
This could be used at yet more proof that separation of church and state is an enduring yet endangered ideal. It's the law of the land, but there are zealots that seek to knock it down in the name of 'Murrrrrrrica. Even though the "spirit" of 'Murrrrrrrica itself IS separation of church and state, the jingoists cannot tell the difference.
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on June 15, 2014, 06:54:22 PM
This could be used at yet more proof that separation of church and state is an enduring yet endangered ideal. It's the law of the land, but there are zealots that seek to knock it down in the name of 'Murrrrrrrica. Even though the "spirit" of 'Murrrrrrrica itself IS separation of church and state, the jingoists cannot tell the difference.
That was rather my point. When I was in bootcamp, back in 1969, we were ordered to attention a church service each week.
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on June 15, 2014, 07:16:01 PM
I never attended in 77, but by then Satan took over the Navy and the Village People were the recruiting poster.
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on June 15, 2014, 08:05:06 PM
I never attended in 77, but by then Satan took over the Navy and the Village People were the recruiting poster.
That's the year I "went off the books". Great promises not kept.
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on June 15, 2014, 08:08:54 PM
What? You mean in the Navy you can't sail the 7 seas?  Actually you can't'but that's another story.
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: frosty on June 15, 2014, 09:13:07 PM
That was rather my point. When I was in bootcamp, back in 1969, we were ordered to attention a church service each week.

But haven't you heard the news? The Liberals are destroying the constitution by pushing for separation of church and state!!! We need to save 'Murrrrrica!!!
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: USN Atheist on August 06, 2014, 04:09:35 PM
FWIW - I completed 20 years in the Navy and was an atheist the entire time.  I don't recall any time I was in where not attending services or not bowing my head was an issue...personally I did not care if it did cause issue with anyone, I wasn't about to cater to the "popular" religion of the day - I was in the Navy to do a job.
Actually I do recall one incident in berthing where we were having a friendly arguement concerning if Batman could kick jesus' ass and vice-versa.  The christian believed he won the arguement and walked away...
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: doorknob on August 06, 2014, 04:24:34 PM
I know this has nothing to do with the navy but

One time on announcing that I was an atheist I was told there were no atheists in foxholes. Complete rubbish. I later looked up that phrase and low and behold atheists coming out of the wood work who had been in foxholes. None of them were convinced god exists by being in a foxhole.
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: Solitary on August 06, 2014, 04:39:01 PM
Also, many theist became atheist in fox holes.  :eek: It's as crap shoot in life rather in a fox hole or not, so why would an atheist think that placating a God would make any difference? Are any believers not just as scared as atheists? If they are not, they are insane.  :fU: Solitary
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on August 06, 2014, 04:41:28 PM
FWIW - I completed 20 years in the Navy and was an atheist the entire time.  I don't recall any time I was in where not attending services or not bowing my head was an issue...personally I did not care if it did cause issue with anyone, I wasn't about to cater to the "popular" religion of the day - I was in the Navy to do a job.
Actually I do recall one incident in berthing where we were having a friendly arguement concerning if Batman could kick jesus' ass and vice-versa.  The christian believed he won the arguement and walked away...
I retired as a MMC(SW) and I remember being ordered to church on Sunday in boot camp. Later it depended on the command.

@Solitary: I tell people I never saw a god or gods on any battlefield.
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: Solitary on August 06, 2014, 04:48:59 PM
Unfortunately for them, they did like John Wayne, in movies.  :eek: Solitary
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on August 06, 2014, 05:24:44 PM
Unfortunately for them, they did like John Wayne, in movies.  :eek: Solitary
My lead professor at Purdue did a bio of Marion Morrison called John Wayne, American. My favorite part was when he nearly got put in jail because of a skinny mule.
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: LoriPinkAngel on August 06, 2014, 06:17:03 PM
Kid, are you moral enough to join the army, burn villages, houses, women and children after being a litterbug?  I don't know why that came to mind. :think:

Big fan of the Group W Bench here!   :biggrin2:
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on August 06, 2014, 07:08:03 PM
Big fan of the Group W Bench here!   :biggrin2:
That'll never top Ted Nugent.
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: LoriPinkAngel on August 07, 2014, 09:53:08 AM
That'll never top Ted Nugent.

Like Ted's music, hate his politics.
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: Berati on August 07, 2014, 12:49:09 PM
I know this has nothing to do with the navy but

One time on announcing that I was an atheist I was told there were no atheists in foxholes. Complete rubbish. I later looked up that phrase and low and behold atheists coming out of the wood work who had been in foxholes. None of them were convinced god exists by being in a foxhole.

That's just one of many comfortable lies that christians tell themselves. They also tell themselves lies about atheist deathbed conversions. Darwins is a famous example of this lie that still continues to be told.

I think that willingness to accept a comforting lie is a big difference in how theists and atheists think in general.
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: Savior2006 on August 19, 2014, 12:46:58 PM
There are only atheists in foxholes.

If God will protect you, then what's the point in taking cover?
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on August 19, 2014, 12:52:14 PM
There are only atheists in foxholes.

If God will protect you, then what's the point in taking cover?
I had a sky pilot go into the boonies with me once, just to prove God would take care of him. Guess what...
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: Solitary on August 19, 2014, 04:00:10 PM
Sometimes it pays to be scared atheist instead of being a foolish theists.  :pirate: Solitary
Title: Re: Don't be an atheist in the WWII US Navy.
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on August 19, 2014, 07:19:22 PM
Sometimes it pays to be scared atheist instead of being a foolish theists.  :pirate: Solitary
They asked me if I wanted to say something at a memorial service for him. I said "YES, OH HELL YES!!"  They forgot to tell me when it was going to be.