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Humanities Section => Political/Government General Discussion => Topic started by: AllPurposeAtheist on May 21, 2014, 12:40:46 AM

Title: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on May 21, 2014, 12:40:46 AM
What? An old white guy, Republican and sitting governor turned away at the polls? Well slap my mouth.  :lol:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/05/20/1300715/-AR-Gov-Asa-Hutchinson-R-Turned-Away-from-Polls-Because-of-Voter-ID-Law (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/05/20/1300715/-AR-Gov-Asa-Hutchinson-R-Turned-Away-from-Polls-Because-of-Voter-ID-Law)
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: stromboli on May 21, 2014, 06:15:45 AM
Karma's a bitch.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: SGOS on May 21, 2014, 06:50:59 AM
I've never fully understood the "ID" part of this.  If the purpose is only to identify who you are, why is not a Driver's License good enough?  Since you have to register to vote, they already know at the polls where you live, where you should vote, and who you are, so all they need to know is that you are the person registered.  I don't see what a voter ID card adds that a driver's license doesn't.  For those that don't have a driver's license, passport, or other valid identification, an optional voter ID card would make sense, but beyond that, I don't get it.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Gawdzilla Sama on May 21, 2014, 07:26:55 AM
Quote from: SGOS on May 21, 2014, 06:50:59 AM
I've never fully understood the "ID" part of this.  If the purpose is only to identify who you are, why is not a Driver's License good enough?  Since you have to register to vote, they already know at the polls where you live, where you should vote, and who you are, so all they need to know is that you are the person registered.  I don't see what a voter ID card adds that a driver's license doesn't.  For those that don't have a driver's license, passport, or other valid identification, an optional voter ID card would make sense, but beyond that, I don't get it.
It's simple. Higher voter turnout is associated with Democratic victories. So anything you do to suppress vote is a win for the Repugnicans. This "ID" bullshit is just part of that. Don't try to make sense of it unless you include GOP selfishness and spite.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: SGOS on May 21, 2014, 07:35:10 AM
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on May 21, 2014, 07:26:55 AM
It's simple. Higher voter turnout is associated with Democratic victories. So anything you do to suppress vote is a win for the Repugnicans. This "ID" bullshit is just part of that. Don't try to make sense of it unless you include GOP selfishness and spite.
Well, I do understand that part.  But it just seems unfair.  It's just silly bullshit to keep voters away from the polls.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: stromboli on May 21, 2014, 09:41:53 AM
You can use a concealed gun permit as ID proof to vote. What's the problem?
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Hydra009 on May 21, 2014, 11:32:19 AM
Quote from: SGOS on May 21, 2014, 06:50:59 AMI've never fully understood the "ID" part of this.  If the purpose is only to identify who you are, why is not a Driver's License good enough?
It is (http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx#Details).  Apparently, Hutchinson forgot his entire wallet because just about any state/federal government-issued photo ID (and in some states, non-photo ID) is good enough to establish proof of identity.  And generally speaking, you can still cast a provisional ballot even if you don't have ID.

QuoteSince you have to register to vote, they already know at the polls where you live, where you should vote, and who you are, so all they need to know is that you are the person registered.
That's exactly my take.  They already have your info from when you registered to vote, so it's an unnecessary hoop to jump through.

One thing I really liked about NC is that we didn't have a voter ID law; you just had to sign a poll book and they hand you a ballot.  But starting 2016, we're doing the photo ID thing, too.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on May 21, 2014, 03:40:01 PM
The first time I voted I had no ID, just gave my name and address. That was it.
If ever there was a law to discourage citizenship voter ID laws would be it.
They might as well just come right out and say they don't think the public needs to be involved in how our country is run. In fact, why bother having elections at all when someone we don't even know could just appoint  others to represent us?
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: aileron on May 21, 2014, 05:40:31 PM
No ID?  No problem.  Act now, and we'll give you an ID absolutely FREE!  Just show us your birth certificate, please.

What?  You have no birth certificate because you were born 50+ years ago during the Jim Crow era and your parents couldn't get into the hospital.  Sucks to be you.  Next!
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on May 21, 2014, 06:41:24 PM
My dad can't vote in South Carolina where he owns a home even though he served 4 years in the Marine Corp, worked 50 years, always paid his taxes, raised 5 kids, 4 also served in the military.
Reason he can't vote? He sinned and was born at home in 1928.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: aileron on May 21, 2014, 07:13:22 PM
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on May 21, 2014, 06:41:24 PM
My dad can't vote in South Carolina where he owns a home even though he served 4 years in the Marine Corp, worked 50 years, always paid his taxes, raised 5 kids, 4 also served in the military.
Reason he can't vote? He sinned and was born at home in 1928.

SC actually will allow people to vote if they have a "reasonable impediment" to getting a photo ID.  The state election commission considers lack of a birth certificate a reasonable impediment.  Here in NC, we've got mostly fuck ups and retards in the state legislature since 2010.  They won't even consider SC's reasonable impediment exception for photo ID.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on May 21, 2014, 07:33:16 PM
I doubt that at 85 my dad much cares anymore to go through the bother of standing in line to vote much less fucking with the election commission. He has to travel to Ohio just to get his drivers license renewed because without a birth certificate he can't get a SC drivers license.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Hydra009 on May 21, 2014, 10:35:50 PM
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on May 21, 2014, 03:40:01 PMIf ever there was a law to discourage citizenship voter ID laws would be it.
I would have said drug tests or tax audits.  It'd be interesting to see which party's base is suppressed more.  :P
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on May 21, 2014, 11:17:05 PM
Quote from: Hydra009 on May 21, 2014, 10:35:50 PM
I would have said drug tests or tax audits.  It'd be interesting to see which party's base is suppressed more.  :P
Since voting is the most important form of citizen participation it's not a tough one.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Nam on July 09, 2014, 11:43:38 PM
Quote from: SGOS on May 21, 2014, 06:50:59 AM
I've never fully understood the "ID" part of this.  If the purpose is only to identify who you are, why is not a Driver's License good enough?  Since you have to register to vote, they already know at the polls where you live, where you should vote, and who you are, so all they need to know is that you are the person registered.  I don't see what a voter ID card adds that a driver's license doesn't.  For those that don't have a driver's license, passport, or other valid identification, an optional voter ID card would make sense, but beyond that, I don't get it.

A great deal of voters in many Republican held Southern States are non-white voters; I.e. black voters. These laws, and laws targeted toward students, are to prevent them from voting because they primarily lean Democrat. In Democratic States (like Wisconsin) where Republicans run those states (the Democratic process of flogging themselves) they intact these same laws in those states to prevent certain people from voting so they will stay in power.

Florida has had ID laws for awhile but Gov. Rick Scott decided a few years ago to restrict actual voting itself by the length of time allotted which backfired on him when it didn't work because most of these laws other states are trying and are putting through Jeb Bush put through when he was Governor (maybe even Crist, to a point).

It's all about keeping the certain people from voting, and they know it may effect their own in some places but to an effect they can live with.

-Nam
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Nam on July 09, 2014, 11:44:59 PM
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on May 21, 2014, 03:40:01 PM
The first time I voted I had no ID, just gave my name and address. That was it.
If ever there was a law to discourage citizenship voter ID laws would be it.
They might as well just come right out and say they don't think the public needs to be involved in how our country is run. In fact, why bother having elections at all when someone we don't even know could just appoint  others to represent us?

I do Absentee, no ID required for that.

-Nam
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 12:43:29 AM
I love all the conjecture here.  You speak as if this is actual fact.  We live in a country where you have to show ID to drive, drink, buy cigarettes, and many other things that don't impact our country but the moment we are asked to show ID to vote and actually have an impact on our country it's all "you're suppressing my rights."  I can see that in cases like that of APA's father who can't due to something that happened way back when, but why is it such a problem to whip out your ID and prove you are who you say you are?
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Nam on July 10, 2014, 12:49:21 AM
Quote from: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 12:43:29 AM
I love all the conjecture here.  You speak as if this is actual fact.  We live in a country where you have to show ID to drive, drink, buy cigarettes, and many other things that don't impact our country but the moment we are asked to show ID to vote and actually have an impact on our country it's all "you're suppressing my rights."  I can see that in cases like that of APA's father who can't due to something that happened way back when, but why is it such a problem to whip out your ID and prove you are who you say you are?

I don't think that's the problem. I think the problem is for most is that it was never an issue before but then these certain people get elected, say fraud is a problem (with no evidence that it is) and then create these laws not as a vehicle to stop the nonexistent fraud but to prevent those who could vote them out from voting.

It's not actually about ID's, it's about preventing certain people from voting. If it were primarily about ID's then, in many of these states, a state issued school ID, a military ID, etc., should be enough but no, it isn't. It's about a specific type of ID (like a Driver's license) that, perhaps, some people just aren't able to get.

-Nam
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 12:59:48 AM
Quote from: Nam on July 10, 2014, 12:49:21 AM
I don't think that's the problem. I think the problem is for most is that it was never an issue before but then these certain people get elected, say fraud is a problem (with no evidence that it is) and then create these laws not as a vehicle to stop the nonexistent fraud but to prevent those who could vote them out from voting.

It's not actually about ID's, it's about preventing certain people from voting. If it were primarily about ID's then, in many of these states, a state issued school ID, a military ID, etc., should be enough but no, it isn't. It's about a specific type of ID (like a Driver's license) that, perhaps, some people just aren't able to get.

-Nam

There's the conjecture again.  You say there's no proof of fraud and then say it's about preventing people from voting, with no proof.  I can see why a state wouldn't accept a military ID, it should have to be state issued.  Take in account my situation, I'm military and moved to a different state closer to family so I'm registered to vote in two states.  If all I was required wasy military ID I could vote in both states instead of the one I actually call home.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Nam on July 10, 2014, 01:21:46 AM
Quote from: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 12:59:48 AM
There's the conjecture again.  You say there's no proof of fraud and then say it's about preventing people from voting, with no proof.

http://www.brennancenter.org/issues/voter-fraud
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnwasik/2012/11/06/voter-fraud-a-massive-anti-democratic-deception/

-Nam
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 01:46:20 AM
So you've managed to provide links to something that isn't being disputed.  Where is you're proof that these laws were enacted to make it harder for people to vote for democrats?
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Nam on July 10, 2014, 01:59:16 AM
Quote from: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 01:46:20 AM
So you've managed to provide links to something that isn't being disputed.  Where is you're proof that these laws were enacted to make it harder for people to vote for democrats?

Did I say "Harder to vote for Democrats?", don't think I said that. What I did say was that the Republican run States (many of which are in the South) enact these laws to prevent those not of their party (and by accident some in their party) more difficult to vote. Democrats do it to Republicans; it's called "redistricting" (Republicans use that tool, too).

Are you saying these things don't happen? Are you a Republican? Is this all just propaganda to you?

So, the fact that the Supreme Court struck down a part of the Civil Rights Act, and many Southern States the second after finding out implemented laws that prevented certain types of people from voting (in Texas: women) that means nothing to you? Just liberal propaganda?

-Nam

Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 02:32:42 AM
Quote from: Nam on July 10, 2014, 01:59:16 AM
Did I say "Harder to vote for Democrats?", don't think I said that. What I did say was that the Republican run States (many of which are in the South) enact these laws to prevent those not of their party (and by accident some in their party) more difficult to vote. Democrats do it to Republicans; it's called "redistricting" (Republicans use that tool, too).

You are essentially saying they are doing this in order to make it harder to vote for Democrats, you said once before here
Quote from: Nam on July 09, 2014, 11:43:38 PM
A great deal of voters in many Republican held Southern States are non-white voters; I.e. black voters. These laws, and laws targeted toward students, are to prevent them from voting because they primarily lean Democrat.

QuoteAre you a Republican?

What does it matter? My premise is that your belief these laws are used to make it harder for people who lean democratically is pure conjecture.  It doesn't matter if I'm republican, democrat, or third party.

QuoteSo, the fact that the Supreme Court struck down a part of the Civil Rights Act, and many Southern States the second after finding out implemented laws that prevented certain types of people from voting (in Texas: women) that means nothing to you? Just liberal propaganda?

This still doesn't address the discussion or my question.  Try as you to fling things to "prove" your point, you still haven't provided any evidence to support your claim.  If you can't provide any evidence to support you claim you are arguing off of pure conjecture.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Nam on July 10, 2014, 03:01:12 AM
You said:

QuoteYou say there's no proof of fraud and then say it's about preventing people from voting, with no proof.

I provide two links that say that voter fraud is virtually a myth (the Forbes one from 2007). So, if voter fraud is virtually a myth then we are to expect from these mainly Republican lawmakers one of two things as to why they are implementing such laws into their states:

1. They are incompetent.

Or

2. They are doing it based on voter suppression.

You don't like that: I can't help you.

-Nam
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Hydra009 on July 10, 2014, 03:13:48 AM
Quote from: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 12:43:29 AMWe live in a country where you have to show ID to drive, drink, buy cigarettes, and many other things that don't impact our country but the moment we are asked to show ID to vote and actually have an impact on our country it's all "you're suppressing my rights."  I can see that in cases like that of APA's father who can't due to something that happened way back when, but why is it such a problem to whip out your ID and prove you are who you say you are?
What if I told you that people already do all that when they register to vote?
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 03:22:15 AM
Quote from: Nam on July 10, 2014, 03:01:12 AM
You said:

I provide two links that say that voter fraud is virtually a myth (the Forbes one from 2007). So, if voter fraud is virtually a myth then we are to expect from these mainly Republican lawmakers one of two things as to why they are implementing such laws into their states:

1. They are incompetent.

Or

2. They are doing it based on voter suppression.

You don't like that: I can't help you.

-Nam


Exactly VIRTUALLY a myth.  To think it doesn't go on at all is ignorance.  You still have yet to provide any evidence to support your claim that these laws are all about preventing certain people from voting.  You can't help me because instead of either admit it's conjecture or provide evidence to support your claim you'd rather try tonsure straw man.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 03:28:36 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on July 10, 2014, 03:13:48 AM
What if I told you that people already do all that when they register to vote?

Maybe where you're from, I haven't provided anything but a form with my personal information written on it.  Even still, providing this information when you register doesn't stop a thing.  Just think about how long it's been since you registered to vote.  For me it's been over a decade since I first registered, and I am in a job with a high mortality rate.  They haven't scrubbed the records to see that I am no longer a resident of that state and still send voter information packets to my parents.  My brother is also registered to that address despite not being a resident for about 5 years.  We don't have ID laws where I'm from so if my dad wanted to he could vote three times just by giving them a name.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on July 10, 2014, 04:24:01 AM
It goes further to economic discrimination and of course racial discrimination. Rubes would love to go back to only allowing only white male land owners to vote 
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 08:19:04 AM
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on July 10, 2014, 04:24:01 AM
It goes further to economic discrimination and of course racial discrimination. Rubes would love to go back to only allowing only white male land owners to vote 

Evidence?
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on July 10, 2014, 09:14:07 AM
Quote from: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 03:22:15 AM
Exactly VIRTUALLY a myth.  To think it doesn't go on at all is ignorance.
When it's said that voter fraud is virtually a myth, it means that if it exists at all, it is so small that it wouldn't make a difference in any real election. Yeah, I suppose that without these laws a person could visit three voting places and not be caught, but voting in this country is such a bother we have enough trouble getting most people to vote once, let alone three times. We simply don't see tens of thousands of people vote multiple times in elections.

On the other hand, these laws actively discourage voting that one time, the one time that is the voter's right and duty. It's nothing less than election fraud, and it causes much more damage than the virtually mythical voter fraud could ever do.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Solitary on July 10, 2014, 12:03:16 PM
http://www.click2houston.com/news/Politics/new-laws-make-voting-difficult-for-some-citizens/26792002

Quote



Edna Griggs keenly remembers the anger and outrage she felt during the 2012 general election when she watched as African-American senior citizens were forced to wait in long lines in the Houston heat as they queued up to vote at the Acres Homes Multi-Service Center.

A member of her local NAACP chapter, Griggs says she was told that she couldn't bring them water to drink or chairs to rest in.

"A poll watcher approached me and said, 'What are you doing?' He told me I couldn't do that. They thought we were trying to sway their votes by giving them water," she said. "It was really sad to me because it was like a reflection of the stories I heard from my grandmother and mother when they had to pay to vote. It was a reflection of everything our people have gone through."

Griggs is one of the plaintiffs in a NAACP lawsuit about new Texas voting identification laws, regulations that are considered by some civil rights and liberties groups as among the nation's most restrictive.

Civil rights groups in that state, and others, fear that election officials and poll watchers, empowered by those new laws will ratchet up the level of discrimination against minority voters.

"We've had a serious problem with elected officials discriminating against Latino and African-American voters. It's obvious that many officials cannot be expected to treat these voters fairly," said Gary Bledsoe, an attorney and president of the Texas NAACP. "When you give them more power to reject black and Latino voters at the polls, that power will be exercised and the discrimination escalated."

Texas voting officials have said the state's new photo voter identification law will help tamp down fraud.
"The U.S. Supreme Court has already ruled that voter ID laws do not suppress legal votes, but do help prevent illegal votes," Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott said last year, according to media reports.

The hunt for fraud
When they head to the polls in this fall's midterm elections, some voters in nearly half of the country will find it a lot tougher to cast ballots due to new voting laws, according to a new report by the Brennan Center for Justice. It is a legal think tank at New York University School of Law that has criticized the increase in what it sees as prohibitive voting measures.

Most of the laws were approved by Republican-dominated legislatures and in states that saw greater minority voter turnout in the 2008 and 2012 general elections, the report found.

Civil rights groups and voting rights advocates see the spate of new laws as a way to disenfranchise and intimidate minority voters and suppress turnout during high-stakes elections. Others support the changes and see the laws as the best way to preserve integrity in the voting process.

Such groups as the grassroots Voter Integrity Project in North Carolina and True the Vote, a conservative group in Texas, supports citizen enforcement of the new voter laws, acts that often mean sifting through voter rolls and pounding on doors in search of fraud.

True the Vote announced this week that it is suing the Mississippi secretary of state and that state's Republican Party over the right to look at the poll books and ballots in order to ensure that Democratic primary voters didn't also illegally vote in last month's Republican primary runoff. In Mississippi, voters who don't cast ballots in a primary election can vote in either party's runoff.

Mississippi state Sen. Chris McDaniel, who lost a bitter runoff against incumbent Republican Sen. Thad Cochran last month, is citing what he sees as "illegal" and "unethical" behavior among African-American Democrats who cast ballots for the veteran lawmaker.

McDaniel said many of those voters participated in the Democratic primary and shouldn't have been allowed to vote in the Republican runoff.

"True the Vote has been inundated with reports from voters across Mississippi who are outraged to see the integrity of this election being undermined so that politicos can get back to business as usual. Enough is enough," True the Vote President Catherine Engelbrecht said in statement.

Tough new laws
The nation's new crop of voting laws run the gamut from dialing back early voting hours to new requirements for photo identification to stricter rules for voter registration.

A few examples:
In Georgia, Republican lawmakers voted in 2001 to cut the early voting period down from 45 to 21 days, and nixed early voting the weekend before Election Day.

In North Carolina: The GOP-controlled legislature did away with same-day registration, reduced the early voting period and put in place a photo ID requirement, among other changes. Those provisions are the subject of a court challenge and could go to trial next year.

In Ohio, the Republican-dominated legislature this year approved measures nixing the so-called "Golden Week," a period in which voters could both register and cast early ballots during the same trip to the polls. Those cuts are the subject of a lawsuit.

In Texas, which also has a GOP-controlled legislature, a new photo identification requirement went into effect for the first time this year. In 2011, a law which bans voter registration drives --- a method that is often used to target potential voters in poor neighborhoods and on college campuses --- went into effect.

And, in at least seven states, including Arizona, Arkansas and North Carolina, suits challenging new voting restrictions are wending their way through state and federal courts and could potentially impact the outcome of the 2014 elections.
"The rules of the game"

This is all follows a U.S. Supreme Court decision last year striking down provisions of the Voting Rights Act, which required a number of states --- many of them in the South --- to get clearance from the Justice Department before changing their voting laws.

Without that protection, voting rights advocates say, in states with a history of discriminatory voting practices against racial minorities those who seek to unduly influence elections will find it easier to suppress votes.

"We have seen a dramatic increase in politicians trying to manipulate the rules of the game in terms of making it harder for citizens to vote," said Myrna Perez, a senior counsel at NYU's Brennan Center for Justice.

The flurry of new and more restrictive voter laws coincided with the 2010 elections and new Republican majorities that came into power, Perez said.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Nam on July 10, 2014, 01:09:02 PM
Quote from: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 03:22:15 AM

Exactly VIRTUALLY a myth.  To think it doesn't go on at all is ignorance.  You still have yet to provide any evidence to support your claim that these laws are all about preventing certain people from voting.  You can't help me because instead of either admit it's conjecture or provide evidence to support your claim you'd rather try tonsure straw man.

I never said it never happened. What I said was it doesn't happen so much in these individual places that a law is needed to combatant the very few times it does.

Stop being stupid.

-Nam
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 03:30:41 PM
Quote from: Nam on July 10, 2014, 01:09:02 PM
I never said it never happened. What I said was it doesn't happen so much in these individual places that a law is needed to combatant the very few times it does.

Stop being stupid.

-Nam

So now instead of providing evidence we are going to go to ad hom attacks?
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Nam on July 10, 2014, 03:46:43 PM
Quote from: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 03:30:41 PM
So now instead of providing evidence we are going to go to ad hom attacks?

I provided evidence, you felt it wasn't evidence. I provided two links that stated as far back as 2007 (7 years ago) that, even from Republicans (Forbes is a Republican magazine/organization) that stated voter fraud is virtually non-existent. So, there can only be two reasons why someone would enact a law that effects virtually no one in concern to voting: either incompetence or voter suppression.

Only person here attacking anyone is you towards us with your flagrant stupidity.

-Nam
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 06:22:23 PM
Quote from: Nam on July 10, 2014, 03:46:43 PM
I provided evidence, you felt it wasn't evidence. I provided two links that stated as far back as 2007 (7 years ago) that, even from Republicans (Forbes is a Republican magazine/organization) that stated voter fraud is virtually non-existent. So, there can only be two reasons why someone would enact a law that effects virtually no one in concern to voting: either incompetence or voter suppression.

Only person here attacking anyone is you towards us with your flagrant stupidity.

-Nam

No, I stated you are saying these laws are set up to prevent certain types of people from voting.  I have stated this is conjecture and to provide proof this is the reason for the laws.  You insist what gave me is proof but it is not and then personally attack me because can't provide the evidence.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Nam on July 10, 2014, 06:38:16 PM
Quote from: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 06:22:23 PM
No, I stated you are saying these laws are set up to prevent certain types of people from voting.  I have stated this is conjecture and to provide proof this is the reason for the laws.  You insist what gave me is proof but it is not and then personally attack me because can't provide the evidence.

Why would someone create a law on something that is virtually nonexistent? What is the point of doing that?

Who does it benefit?

-Nam
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 06:45:19 PM
Quote from: Nam on July 10, 2014, 06:38:16 PM
Why would someone create a law on something that is virtually nonexistent? What is the point of doing that?

Who does it benefit?

-Nam

Quit trying to dodge the question.  We aren't discussing if it's smart, do you have evidence or do you admit it's pure conjecture that these laws were enacted to stop certain people from voting?
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Nam on July 10, 2014, 08:10:38 PM
Quote from: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 06:45:19 PM
Quit trying to dodge the question.  We aren't discussing if it's smart, do you have evidence or do you admit it's pure conjecture that these laws were enacted to stop certain people from voting?

I'm not dodging anything. You are ignoring what I have stated, what others have stated such as Reimu and Solitary -- do you need constant repetitious commenting by people? Do I have to go cite every single thing where these laws effect old people, opposite parties, non-white people (some white people of the same party)? It's been done -- you ignore it.

You're the only one dodging here -- dodging the reality of these laws and why they are implemented in this modern era.

-Nam
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 09:42:25 PM
Quote from: Nam on July 10, 2014, 08:10:38 PM
I'm not dodging anything. You are ignoring what I have stated, what others have stated such as Reimu and Solitary -- do you need constant repetitious commenting by people? Do I have to go cite every single thing where these laws effect old people, opposite parties, non-white people (some white people of the same party)? It's been done -- you ignore it.

You're the only one dodging here -- dodging the reality of these laws and why they are implemented in this modern era.

-Nam

It hasn't been done.  Nobody has provided any evidence to prove that the laws were made to prohibit certain people from voting like you say they were.  So now to answer an earlier question, it must be propaganda as you refuse to provide any evidence to support your claim.  You have thouroughly convinced me this is all because people like you will believe whatever your party tells you to believe, preying on your weak minds and complete willingness to submit to them.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Nam on July 10, 2014, 10:48:13 PM
Quote from: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 09:42:25 PM
It hasn't been done.  Nobody has provided any evidence to prove that the laws were made to prohibit certain people from voting like you say they were.  So now to answer an earlier question, it must be propaganda as you refuse to provide any evidence to support your claim.  You have thouroughly convinced me this is all because people like you will believe whatever your party tells you to believe, preying on your weak minds and complete willingness to submit to them.

The only evidence that would satisfy you is the people who passed the laws saying that's why they did it. Do you really think they are that stupid? Apparently you think that "we" think they are that stupid.

You're not looking for evidence.

-Nam
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 10:58:23 PM
Quote from: Nam on July 10, 2014, 10:48:13 PM
The only evidence that would satisfy you is the people who passed the laws saying that's why they did it. Do you really think they are that stupid? Apparently you think that "we" think they are that stupid.

You're not looking for evidence.

-Nam

Once again pure conjecture, yet you still refuse to provide any evidence and point me to "fraud isn't very widespread."  When you can support your point without conjecture and straw man come back and see me.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Nam on July 10, 2014, 11:15:37 PM
Quote from: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 10:58:23 PM
Once again pure conjecture, yet you still refuse to provide any evidence and point me to "fraud isn't very widespread."  When you can support your point without conjecture and straw man come back and see me.

I can't help you. No one here can. Everything to you is "conjecture". As I said: only thing that will satisfy you is the lawmakers who put through these laws coming out and saying that's why they did it.

Good luck with that.

-Nam
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Hydra009 on July 11, 2014, 12:20:31 AM
Quote from: Nam on July 10, 2014, 11:15:37 PMI can't help you. No one here can. Everything to you is "conjecture".
One would think he would simply put two and two together and figure out why a party that typically does better with lower turnout would push through a measure making it more difficult to vote.

Edit - maybe this (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/08/28/republicans-admit-voter-id-laws-are-aimed-at-democratic-voters.html) could help, though I'm not holding my breath.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Nam on July 11, 2014, 01:11:22 AM
Quote from: Hydra009 on July 11, 2014, 12:20:31 AM
One would think he would simply put two and two together and figure out why a party that typically does better with lower turnout would push through a measure making it more difficult to vote.

Edit - maybe this (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/08/28/republicans-admit-voter-id-laws-are-aimed-at-democratic-voters.html) could help, though I'm not holding my breath.

Especially since he's most likely one of them.

-Nam
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Berati on July 13, 2014, 01:07:02 PM
Quote from: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 10:58:23 PM
Once again pure conjecture, yet you still refuse to provide any evidence and point me to "fraud isn't very widespread."  When you can support your point without conjecture and straw man come back and see me.
Wake up! The evidence is all over the place if you just open your eyes and look.

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=9122051
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/12/17/3074691/voter-fraud-iowa/
http://miamitimesonline.com/news/2014/jan/09/study-voter-suppression-laws-unfairly-target-black/
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/08/15/2475561/colorado-gessler-zero-illegal-voters/


You're kind of disingenuous "oh please...I just want to see evidence" is such a lie. You don't give a crap about evidence so why pretend?
I
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: zarus tathra on July 18, 2014, 11:08:28 PM
What about people who vote twice? People who say that they're John Smith at one place and Jacob Smith at another? And besides, it's almost a matter of principle that someone should have to conclusively identify themselves before trying to influence the nation.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Hydra009 on July 18, 2014, 11:28:37 PM
Quote from: zarus tathra on July 18, 2014, 11:08:28 PMWhat about people who vote twice? People who say that they're John Smith at one place and Jacob Smith at another?
"What's your name and street address?" followed by "Huh, you're not registered to vote at this precinct."  Almost certainly followed a variably pleasant or unpleasant goodbye.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Nam on July 18, 2014, 11:30:16 PM
Quote from: zarus tathra on July 18, 2014, 11:08:28 PM
What about people who vote twice? People who say that they're John Smith at one place and Jacob Smith at another? And besides, it's almost a matter of principle that someone should have to conclusively identify themselves before trying to influence the nation.

Show me where there is recent evidence (10 years) that's happened? However, no one has stated that fraud doesn't happen, what is being stated in these individual places it isn't rampant enough to where they need to pass a huge law against it.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/map_of_the_week/2012/09/voter_id_laws_a_state_by_state_map_reveals_how_much_voter_fraud_there_is_in_the_united_states_almost_none_.html

These laws are made to keep certain people from voting, and it's not those who commit voter fraud since they virtually are nonexistent.

-Nam
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: zarus tathra on July 19, 2014, 12:08:46 PM
Or maybe fraud is undetectable without an id. It's really easy to bypass the checks because we have something called a PHONE BOOK.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on July 19, 2014, 12:30:13 PM
Quote from: Alaric I on July 10, 2014, 08:19:04 AM
Evidence?
Ahh, I see. Republicans can claim massive voter fraud with no evidence, but when I say voter suppression issues are bullshit I need massive evidence..  I see how that works. In political speech they call that a dog whistle.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Nam on July 19, 2014, 01:47:16 PM
Quote from: zarus tathra on July 19, 2014, 12:08:46 PM
Or maybe fraud is undetectable without an id. It's really easy to bypass the checks because we have something called a PHONE BOOK.

You're an idiot.

-Nam
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: zarus tathra on July 19, 2014, 02:35:48 PM
Quote
You're an idiot.

-Nam
Brilliant retort.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: DunkleSeele on July 19, 2014, 03:01:22 PM
[mod]
OK Nam, stop calling idiots whoever disagrees with you. You're more than welcome to criticise their arguments or to post your counter-arguments. Personal insults aren't going to be tolerated any more.[/mod]
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Hydra009 on July 19, 2014, 03:05:13 PM
Quote from: zarus tathra on July 19, 2014, 12:08:46 PM
Or maybe fraud is undetectable without an id. It's really easy to bypass the checks because we have something called a PHONE BOOK.
Try that out.  Let me know how it works out for you.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: AllPurposeAtheist on July 19, 2014, 04:25:15 PM
Quote from: zarus tathra on July 19, 2014, 12:08:46 PM
Or maybe fraud is undetectable without an id. It's really easy to bypass the checks because we have something called a PHONE BOOK.
Try explaining exactly how your phone book theory works.
The truth is rubes want to suppress the vote because people of color simply don't support racist and bigoted policies on the mass scale that they would like. They haven't been able to point to a single election where voter fraud played any sort of significant impact, but just keep on believing there are millions of people out there trying to cast fraudulent votes. But hey, if it's THAT big of an issue why won't rubes back the idea of a free national ID for everyone and make voting compulsory if the general public is so behind them? The general public if made to vote in every election would crush the republican party so of course you want to discourage voting as much as possible.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Hakurei Reimu on July 19, 2014, 05:33:01 PM
^ This. This is why voter ID laws in practice are election fraud. When we have near 100% voter turnout, then you can talk to me about voter fraud.
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: Nam on July 19, 2014, 05:34:41 PM
"stop calling idiots whoever disagrees with you. " -- that doesn't make sense. If you're going to go to all that trouble: have it make sense.

Just sayin'.

-Nam
Title: Re: AR-Gov: Asa Hutchinson (R) Turned Away from Polls Because of Voter ID Law
Post by: DunkleSeele on July 19, 2014, 05:43:31 PM
Quote from: Nam on July 19, 2014, 05:34:41 PM
"stop calling idiots whoever disagrees with you. " -- that doesn't make sense. If you're going to go to all that trouble: have it make sense.

Just sayin'.

-Nam
You understood it very well. That's what counts.